Hello Samuel. Psalm 82 is a clear condemnation to the unjust judges of Israel & their rulers. Where we see "gods" in verses 1 & 6, in Hebrew it is 'Elohim', otherwise rendered as god, divines, judges & rulers. In this Psalm, 'gods' clearly refers to judges who judged unjustly (vv 2-5) & would therefore hear their Judge (the LORD) pronounce their verdict of death (vv 6,7).
Jesus, in John 10:34 quotes this Psalm. You might remember the occasion: the Jews took up stones to stone Jesus for blasphemy (i.e. they believed that Jesus was a mere man & not on equal terms with God). Then Jesus responded to them: "Is it not written in your law, I said, Ye are gods?" As it was in Psalm 82, so the same condemnation is given by Jesus here, to these Jews who came 'upholding the Law & determining whether a man be condemned or not'. As God condemned those unjust judges in the Psalm, so Jesus is telling them that if they are in a position of being His judge now, why should they condemn Him for being the Son of God, One Who did God's Works in the Name & Power of God Almighty? ( John 10:34-38).
I share this extra bit on John 10 to give the connection with Psalm 82, as Jesus referred to it, that the Elohim spoken of there, applied even now, as these Jewish leaders behaved no differently to those judges in the Psalm, who judged unjustly & not with righteous judgement. And because of their responsible position, judges, society leaders & spiritual leaders who behave wickedly will receive the greater condemnation ( Matthew 23:14,23).
GM Chris GBU But you do greatly err on Psalms 82 ITS prophetic of the Parable of the Sower and his seed the Words Jesus is saying to humanity And to whom His Words came ( his Seeds ) it made them Gods And John 10 is saying to whom the word came that good seed it made them Gods and Jesus said those scriptures cannot be broken. The parable of the sower and his precious seed are exactly the same as Psalms 82 ( THE WORDS GOD HAS SAID ) I HAVE SAID YE ARE GODS AND THE SEEDS OF THE SOWER ARE THE WORDS OF GOD. But you will die as men John said when i saw him i fell at his feet as dead. When God made that great PROMISE that Christ wd be multiplied as the stars of heaven God swore by himself impling he himself was gonna be multiplied as the stars of heaven thats y Jesus is saying to whom the WORD ( the seed of the Sower came it made them Gods ) Chris and there are not any lower case or upper case in Hebrews when God said ye are Gods its simply the result of the sower and his seed the LIVING WORD AS MY WORDS ARE SPIRIT AND LIFE. AS GOD IS SPIRIT. And is any man hears my words and keeps them ( those good seeds ) my Father and I will come and take our abode with him. Then a Marriage where we will be made 1 with God.
Thank you Alex & no offence taken at all. So what you're saying is that if Psalm 82 & John 10 have the expression, "ye are gods", then in your mind it doesn't matter what the subject matter is around that phrase. So if it speaks about judges or of wrong judgement being given out, then all that information is irrelevant as everything has to come back to the parable of the sower, seeds, etc.? Are you not able to see that this makes the Bible totally useless to everyone (of course, except to a few as yourself, who can see through the whole account & dig up an 'inner or deeper' meaning?).
Rather than to pursue such strange reasoning of the Scriptures, I would ask you, how did you learn to interpret the Bible in such a manner? Does your Fellowship teach this or did you learn this from some other source? I was interested enough to try & Google such beliefs/interpretations, but nothing came up, so I figured that this must be something specific to certain individuals. Even the variety of Fellowships I've attended (from high Churches to closed brethren to pentecostal), I've never heard of the Scriptures being interpreted as you've suggested. So, I'm genuinely interested to learn how you have acquired this 'knowledge'. If you feel my questions are too personal, then I will understand if don't wish to answer them, but I truly remain perplexed about this. GBU.
Before I ever knew of this website or read any comments Alex had written, the Spirit had already revealed to me that the Word (God) is SEED and Seed ALWAYS produces SEED just like the SEED it came from.
Wheat seed produces wheat seed, corn seed produces corn seed, no matter what seed is planted it ALWAYS produces the same seed that was planted.
Luke 8:13 Now the PARABLE is this: the SEED is the Word of God.
I know you believe the WORD is GOD; therefore GOD is SEED, GOD is SPIRIT; therefore SEED is SPIRIT, the Holy Spirit or the Holy Ghost is the WORD, the SPIRIT and ALSO the SEED.
1 Peter 1:23 Being born again, not of corruptible SEED (flesh), but of incorruptible SEED (SPIRIT), by the Word of God (Spirit of God, Seed of God), which (the Seed, the Spirit, the Word) liveth and abideth forever.
When we depart this body of flesh; Spirit ONLY remains, Spirit is GOD, we become (the image of) God.
As for Psalms 82 It is the Word. It is prophecy.
Psalms 83:1 God (the Word) standeth in the congregation (those that receive the Word) of the mighty; he (the Word) judgeth among the gods (gods that are flesh and gods that are born again SPIRIT; first; you bear the flesh, then the Spirit).
Psalms 82:2 How long (God, the Word) will you judge unjustly (we see no justice right now), and accept the persons of the wicked?
Psalms 82:3 (God, the Word) defend the poor and fatherless; do justice to the afflected and needy.
Psalms 82:4 (God, the Word) deliver the poor and needy: (God, the Word) rid them out of the hand of the wicked.
Psalms 82:5 They (gods of this world) know not, neither do they understand; they walk in darkness: all the foundations of the earth are out of course.
Psalms 82:6 I (God, the word) have said (and my WORDS will not return unto me void) YE ARE GODS; the children of the most high.
But ye shall die like men (flesh, and ONLY the SPIRIT will remain), and fall like one of the princes (of this world).
Thank you for that explanation brother Earl. I understand Luke 8:5-15 & can even understand your explanation of it. However, in the parable, Jesus uses the 'seed' as an illustration of God's Word being planted into various heart types. It's not used as God being planted/fallen by the wayside/etc. in their hearts. Even though the seed represents God's Word, if we interpret it as God being planted & therefore the Spirit being planted, then we corrupt the meaning & intent of that parable.
If we then allow that type of interpretation to continue, so many passages, such as Isaiah 41:8, "But thou, Israel, art my servant, Jacob whom I have chosen, the seed of Abraham my friend", might just compel one to think of the "seed of Abraham" to mean 'God's Word/God/a multiplication of gods, instead of simply Abraham's progeny. Even in evangelism, the evangelist shares/scatters the seed over different hearts. He does not scatter God or the Holy Spirit - I believe there must be a distinction, or else the meaning becomes clouded or lost.
1 Peter 1:23: here again, the Word is that the believers were born again by incorruptible seed (God's Word) as opposed to the corruptible traditions that were first delivered by their fathers (v 18) that could not give a new birth. We might agree with that one but I would disagree with: "When we depart this body of flesh; Spirit ONLY remains, Spirit is GOD, we become (the image of) God." Our spirit never becomes God; our spirits are renewed by the Holy Spirit (born again) & we bear the Image of God, but whether on Earth or depart from it, our spirits don't become God. And this belief then impacts how you understand Psalm 82. As I've already given my understanding of this Psalm in this thread to Samuel, I won't repeat it, except to state that I disagree in toto with your understanding of it; i.e. it is not prophetical at all, rather a warning to the rulers & judges, to which Jesus also inferred in John 10:34.
Earl with all due respect you take a lot of things out of context of usage, I believe Gods word as originally given was perfect that being said he meant what he said where he said it how he said it to whom he said it when he said it and why he said it, the treasure chest is so big because it is the knowledge of God. Remember you said the spirit reveals, the bible was written by men with the spirit, that's the guide. To quote Jesus Christ thy word is truth. God Bless
GM Chris GBU no offence but you you do greatly err . Psalms 82 is about something God is saying I have said ye are Gods ( there are no upper case or lower case in Hebrew ) Its Prophetic of the parable of the sower and his seed the word which is something Jesus is saying his Words are his Seeds and our Lord Said to whom the Word came as it made them Gods .1 John says the WORD IS GOD. Whatsoever a man sows that will he reap and Jesus is sowing the very seed of God thus he willl reap Gods that was the Great Promise that Christ wd be multiplied as the Stars of Heaven and here is the Kicker God swore by his very self when he made that great Promise thus its God himself that wants a posterity Christ was just the 1st born of many brethren and Jesus is the sower of the good seed thus he will be Multiplied as the stars of Heaven. Thats y Jesus refers to the H.G as the Promise he is the multiplication of Gods in humanity, THE PROMISE WHICH IS GOD, VIA HIS SEED THE WORD. SOMETHING JESUS IS SAYING his parable ( I have said, his seeds ye are Gods. Remember Jesus made clay of his spittle ( his Word and the earth humanity ) A marriage, even in the natural in a marriage 2 are made 1 ,we are gonna be made 1 with God b/c of his precious seed the living WORD Jesus even tells us if any man hears my words and keeps them my FATHER AND I WILL come and take our abode with him . We are gonna birth a Baby Christ which is the H.G. the Child of Promise ,Thats y Jesus is saying that which is born of the spirit is SPIRIT AS GOD IS SPIRIT TH H.G. OUR NEW INNERMAN. Chris Jesus is sowing the very seeds of God and he will not have a crop failure,My words cannot return unto me void. Unto us a CHILD IS BORN. AND UNLESS YOU RECEIVE THE kINGDOM OF GOD AS A LIL CHILD ETC
Jesus did say, unless we are converted and become as little children we WILL NOT enter the kingdom of heaven.
Matthew 18:3
"And said, Verily I say unto you, Except ye be converted, and become as little children, ye shall not enter into the kingdom of heaven."
So, if Psalms 82 or any other scripture was read to a child, how would the child understand it?
As adults we have a great tendency to complicate things, it's the way we are. We want to read between the lines, figure out what is really being said, etc.etc. Then we come up with various interpretations and theories of our own.which really takes us away from the real meaning of the word/scripture.
A child will really listen, and understand, what is stated in scripture better than many adults.
We need to humble ourselves moreand become more like children..I know that I do.
Jesus, in John 10:34 quotes this Psalm. You might remember the occasion: the Jews took up stones to stone Jesus for blasphemy (i.e. they believed that Jesus was a mere man & not on equal terms with God). Then Jesus responded to them: "Is it not written in your law, I said, Ye are gods?" As it was in Psalm 82, so the same condemnation is given by Jesus here, to these Jews who came 'upholding the Law & determining whether a man be condemned or not'. As God condemned those unjust judges in the Psalm, so Jesus is telling them that if they are in a position of being His judge now, why should they condemn Him for being the Son of God, One Who did God's Works in the Name & Power of God Almighty? ( John 10:34-38).
I share this extra bit on John 10 to give the connection with Psalm 82, as Jesus referred to it, that the Elohim spoken of there, applied even now, as these Jewish leaders behaved no differently to those judges in the Psalm, who judged unjustly & not with righteous judgement. And because of their responsible position, judges, society leaders & spiritual leaders who behave wickedly will receive the greater condemnation ( Matthew 23:14,23).
Rather than to pursue such strange reasoning of the Scriptures, I would ask you, how did you learn to interpret the Bible in such a manner? Does your Fellowship teach this or did you learn this from some other source? I was interested enough to try & Google such beliefs/interpretations, but nothing came up, so I figured that this must be something specific to certain individuals. Even the variety of Fellowships I've attended (from high Churches to closed brethren to pentecostal), I've never heard of the Scriptures being interpreted as you've suggested. So, I'm genuinely interested to learn how you have acquired this 'knowledge'. If you feel my questions are too personal, then I will understand if don't wish to answer them, but I truly remain perplexed about this. GBU.
Before I ever knew of this website or read any comments Alex had written, the Spirit had already revealed to me that the Word (God) is SEED and Seed ALWAYS produces SEED just like the SEED it came from.
Wheat seed produces wheat seed, corn seed produces corn seed, no matter what seed is planted it ALWAYS produces the same seed that was planted.
Luke 8:13 Now the PARABLE is this: the SEED is the Word of God.
I know you believe the WORD is GOD; therefore GOD is SEED, GOD is SPIRIT; therefore SEED is SPIRIT, the Holy Spirit or the Holy Ghost is the WORD, the SPIRIT and ALSO the SEED.
1 Peter 1:23 Being born again, not of corruptible SEED (flesh), but of incorruptible SEED (SPIRIT), by the Word of God (Spirit of God, Seed of God), which (the Seed, the Spirit, the Word) liveth and abideth forever.
When we depart this body of flesh; Spirit ONLY remains, Spirit is GOD, we become (the image of) God.
As for Psalms 82 It is the Word. It is prophecy.
Psalms 83:1 God (the Word) standeth in the congregation (those that receive the Word) of the mighty; he (the Word) judgeth among the gods (gods that are flesh and gods that are born again SPIRIT; first; you bear the flesh, then the Spirit).
Psalms 82:2 How long (God, the Word) will you judge unjustly (we see no justice right now), and accept the persons of the wicked?
Psalms 82:3 (God, the Word) defend the poor and fatherless; do justice to the afflected and needy.
Psalms 82:4 (God, the Word) deliver the poor and needy: (God, the Word) rid them out of the hand of the wicked.
Psalms 82:5 They (gods of this world) know not, neither do they understand; they walk in darkness: all the foundations of the earth are out of course.
Psalms 82:6 I (God, the word) have said (and my WORDS will not return unto me void) YE ARE GODS; the children of the most high.
But ye shall die like men (flesh, and ONLY the SPIRIT will remain), and fall like one of the princes (of this world).
If we then allow that type of interpretation to continue, so many passages, such as Isaiah 41:8, "But thou, Israel, art my servant, Jacob whom I have chosen, the seed of Abraham my friend", might just compel one to think of the "seed of Abraham" to mean 'God's Word/God/a multiplication of gods, instead of simply Abraham's progeny. Even in evangelism, the evangelist shares/scatters the seed over different hearts. He does not scatter God or the Holy Spirit - I believe there must be a distinction, or else the meaning becomes clouded or lost.
1 Peter 1:23: here again, the Word is that the believers were born again by incorruptible seed (God's Word) as opposed to the corruptible traditions that were first delivered by their fathers (v 18) that could not give a new birth. We might agree with that one but I would disagree with: "When we depart this body of flesh; Spirit ONLY remains, Spirit is GOD, we become (the image of) God." Our spirit never becomes God; our spirits are renewed by the Holy Spirit (born again) & we bear the Image of God, but whether on Earth or depart from it, our spirits don't become God. And this belief then impacts how you understand Psalm 82. As I've already given my understanding of this Psalm in this thread to Samuel, I won't repeat it, except to state that I disagree in toto with your understanding of it; i.e. it is not prophetical at all, rather a warning to the rulers & judges, to which Jesus also inferred in John 10:34.
I appreciate your contribution Earl.
Matthew 18:3
"And said, Verily I say unto you, Except ye be converted, and become as little children, ye shall not enter into the kingdom of heaven."
So, if Psalms 82 or any other scripture was read to a child, how would the child understand it?
As adults we have a great tendency to complicate things, it's the way we are. We want to read between the lines, figure out what is really being said, etc.etc. Then we come up with various interpretations and theories of our own.which really takes us away from the real meaning of the word/scripture.
A child will really listen, and understand, what is stated in scripture better than many adults.
We need to humble ourselves moreand become more like children..I know that I do.
God Bless
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