Bible Discussion Thread

Jaz,

Thank you for your response, and I did not perceive your comment as combative. At this point I believe the English Standard Version is the most accurate word-for-word translation, as it is based on the oldest and most reliable manuscripts. So, this is the translation I use for study and when I am preparing to preach. However, that being said, I grew up in the faith reading the King James Version, and there are passages that I memorized that I still quote from the KJV when speaking and preaching.

Michael

Hi Jaz.

Firstly let me say I prefer the King James translation.

With that being said, Let me ad on to what Giannis has shared.

When we as English speaking people, when we see the word world we are thinking of the physical world at large.

I believe there is a Greek word for that, and it's oikoumen. "land that is the (terrene part of the) globe;

You will find the word world used this way in Matthew 24:14. "And this gospel of the kingdom shall be preached in all the WORLD for a witness unto all nations; and then shall the end come."

In Matthew 28:20 in the Greek the word used for world is "eos" (time,age) its an Era or time period.

"kosmos" is also used for the word world, and you will see it used in John 8:23. "And he said unto them, Ye are from beneath; I am from above: ye are of this world; I am not of this WORLD.

kosmos is defined as

"orderly arrangement that is decoration; by implication the world (in a wide or narrow sense including its inhabitants.

These greek words have different meanings and can not be interchanged.

Using the word age in Matthew 28:20 doesn't change the meaning intended.

God bless

Hi Spencer and Jaz

It is true that it is surprizing also to me that the grk word "aion" (age/time) is used sometimes in the NT instead of the word "world" because in modern grk it means "century". So I have done a research and came up that in ancient grk it had the meaning apart from "a very long period of time", it also had the meaning of "the period of time a person lives".

So it was used in conjuction to people"s lives. And it seems that sometimes (but not always) the writers of the NT use it for the time that this world/humanity exists. And with that meaning it is used in Mat 28. With the same meaning it also used by Luke in Luke 16:8, by Paul in Rom 12:2 and Ephesians 6:12 where Paul talks about the "rulers of the darkness of this world" , where the word "age/time" is used for "world".

But in other verses the world "kosmos" which is the actual grk word for "world" is used, ie in John 18:20, also John 16:11 where John talks about "the prince of this world". (compare it with Ephesians 6:12 that talks about the same thing). So as a final conclusion those two words are interchanged for "world".

Spencer:

"Kosmos" in anc grk means "mankind, humanity". In mod grk it means everything, people, animals, plants. land.

"Oikoumene" means the places/land on earth where people are living.

Also the word "ktisis" is used for world, it means "creation".

Well this is enough with lessons in Greek. Confusing? We have to trust those scholars who have done a very good job in translating the NT. There isn't a perfect translation, all translations lack in some things, even modern greek can not match with ancient greek in meanings. As a conclusion all translations are more or less good. There is no actual error when other words are used as long as the meaning of the text is right. Some go word for word, others not, but there are more understandable than the former ones. Everybody has their favourite translation. We can always use 2 or more when we are not sure what it is meant. GBU

Thanks Giannis!

You are always a great help.

I wasn't aware of 'ktisis"

Great stuff.

God bless.

Seems like the inspiration of the Holy Spirit got lost somewhere in your discussions.

Hello Momsage

Let's start a conversation on a topic that I am not really happy to start because it confuses a lot of people,but at the end I think it would be good to clarify some things.

So what do you think "God inspired scripture means"?. Some people believe that it means that every single word in the Bible is placed there by God, something like God dictated or took the mind and hand of people to write the scriptures. So what are your thoughts about it?

hi Momsage

The Holy Spirit inspires people in many ways. One way is as Giannis and S. Spencer have demonstrated here by providing pertinent information according to one's expertise in a certain area to help others understand a Scripture verse or word. We cannot really judge that another person is not sending a message by the inspiration of the Spirit (not in the sense of inspiring sacred writing) but instead allow for the Spirit to work in others in ways that build up the body of Christ, as Giannis and S. Spencer are doing.

But perhaps you were speaking of how the Holy Spirit inspired Scripture, and I know that Giannis and S. Spencer, and you, and I and most on this forum believe that. We do need to keep in step with the Holy Spirit in all of our ways and words and be leadable.

How awesome is our Lord and God who has provided for us so much in every aspect of our lives! All praise to Him always!

Using the word age doesn't change the meaning intended . Sadly , the meaning intended is not always discerned , especially by those new to reading the Bible and those who have already been exposed to false doctrine . The word ' age ' in English , can mean era and some will interpret it that way . If there is room for dispute over the meaning of a word , you can bet it will occur . Jesus says ' I am with you alway ' then , when ' age ' comes after that , he might , to some readers , set a time limit , which might appear as a contradiction . Using the word ' world ' is way more accurate , as Brother Giannis explained so perfectly . ' Age ' and ' world ' can be interpreted very differently and there's no need to say ' age ' when ' world ' is definitely what is meant . I know some people ,who call themselves Christians , who have no idea that this world is going to change beyond recognition . The word ' age ' could encourage ignorance of the Truth and that's not good . Anyone who deliberately and knowingly changes the Truth into a lie is in big trouble , blind leaders of the blind and they both end up in the pit . It's hard to believe that there are such people but we know there are , Christ has told us that these people exist and they will do great harm . We can all make mistakes but , we can be assured that God knows our hearts , so He knows when we have made a genuine error that we will eventually realise and be corrected , He also knows if we are deliberately twisting His Word to meet our own agenda . May God bless us all with patience and determination to enable us to stay on the right path , the road to His Kingdom on His earth . God bless all on this forum who wish to learn from , support and encourage each other in the love of Christ our Sinless Redeemer .

Hey Jaz,

Hope you don't mind.

I read and study the KJV, and I have read parts of other Bibles, Michaelswiger gave good information on what manuscripts were used, and if we study the history of the Bible other things and texts like the Bishop Bible were also considered. Giannis and S Spencer have also given good responses on the Greek words. I trust the KJV as the word of God and what He means for us to understand is there, but we must trust the Holy Spirit will guide us.

Aion means life span, age, or epoch, it is the source of our English words age and eon. It describes any length of clearly defined time, whether one person's life or some era of certain renown. As a general point of reference, this word may also apply to the vast span of history: the ages, the times of old.

I agree, with the word's age and world for English-speaking people our understanding can be different. The Greek word aion was translated in the KJV 37 times as world, sometimes world works, and sometimes age would be a better choice, I can send you the verses if you want to study them. Like Matt. 24:3 with the context and what the disciples knew at that time and what Jesus just told them about the temple the word world insinuates they are asking Jesus about His second coming.

If we compare Matt. 24:3 with Mark 13:4 and Luke 21:7 what is written in Matthew with them still thinking Jesus was going to set up the kingdom instead of the end of the world, the end of the age would fit better. The context of the chapter and comparing what is written in each gospel about the same thing helps me.

All translations or transliterations are not perfect, but God is and what He wants us to know He will show us through the Spirit of truth. Take Matt. 28:19, the commission, if we compare it to Mark 16:15 Luke 24:47, and what we read in the rest of the New Testament what do we see?

God bless,

RLW

"The Greek word aion was translated in the KJV 37 times as world, sometimes world works, and sometimes age would be a better choice," Maybe you should ask the Holy Spirit why He made a bad choice by writing it that way? I'm sure He would appreciate you pointing that out to Him. Not being sarcastic to upset any one, just making a point. God Bless :)

Hi Momsage,

I don't take it as sarcastic; your posts show your love and support for Scripture, and I am sorry if what I posted has offended you in any way. I rely solely on the Holy Spirit for my understanding, and I believe I said that in my post. In Greek, there are sometimes no English words or any other language that have the same meaning and we must be guided by the Holy Spirit for the true meaning regardless of the translated Bible we have. The Bible has been translated into many different languages and whatever language a person speaks or reads the Holy Spirit will guide them to the true meaning regardless of the translation.

God bless,

RLW

Hi Ronald: No worries. I'm not offended, but I'm absolutely confused why you keep correcting the Holy Ghost's writing of the bible. If He thought the creek word aion translated better into age then world He would have had it translated that way. That was the reason for my sarcasm and I'm sure He knew there were some Creek words that won't translat into English but what does that have to do with anything. In 2 Timothy 2:15 when God tells us to diligently study I believe He meant His true word not a dozen other books of Hebrew or Creek or whatever if it makes us think we know better then God how a word could have been translated in a better way. God Bless :)

Jaz.

For some reason a letter is being omitted from my text.

The Greek word is aion.

Hi.

Thanks again for replying.

I hope I didn't upset you.

That's not my intentions.

I didn't give a interpretation on the verse.

I was just giving the original Greek word that the "king James" drew from. (ain)

Here is what Giannis stated;

'In Greek: "eos(until) tes(of) synteleias(completition) tou(of) aionos(time,age)." With the word "time or age" it is meant the "time or age of this world"

Jaz, unless I am missing something, I believe I am in agreement with Giannis what word is used out of the other Greek words that could have been used.

Here's how the strongs have it brought over from the "KJV.

Greek:

Transliteration: ain

Pronunciation: ahee-ohn'

Definition: From the same as G104; properly an age; by extension perpetuity (also past); by implication the world; specifically (Jewish) a Messianic period (present or future): - age course eternal (for) ever (-more) [n-]ever (beginning of the while the) world (began without end). Compare.

GB

I do have one question about the ESV and it's a verse I always look up in every version and every time I do I'm disappointed . What does the last verse of the book of Matthew say ? In the KJV Jesus's last words are , lo , I am with you alway , even unto the end of the world . For some reason every other version I have read changes that last word . End of the world is as it should be considering we know that this world , these kingdoms of men are to end completely and this , God's earth , shall be filled with His Glory and His Kingdom . So any substitution of the word world can only be confusing at least and at worst literally blasphemous . So , what is the last word of the book of Matthew please ?

Hi Jaz

Sorry for intervening but just for your information the last verse in Matthew 28 is precisely:

In Greek: "eos(until) tes(of) synteleias(completition) tou(of) aionos(time,age)." With the word "time or age" it is meant the "time or age of this world". So the meaning in simple English is "until this world is completed(comes to an end)"

GBU

Thank you for that Brother , would you agree that just using the word ' age ' doesn't convey the actual meaning and that one word could cause confusion and misinterpretation ? The two words ' age ' and ' world ' , in that context , would imply to very different things I think . Whenever I look at a different ' translation ' , I always go straight to the end of Matthew , so far I'm going to be sticking with the KJV . At least it is an actual translation , not just a revision of a previous one .

Sorry for that "completition". It was meant to be "completion".

Dear Brother thank you , i shall definitely look out for that version and it will be the next one that I buy . I love the KJB and can't abide the NIV but I like to keep an open mind so I will give the ESV a go . May God bless us all as we read His Word .