1 Corinthians Chapter 11 Discussion Page 8

Hey Julie, I have pulled a few scriptures, also from paul, to further explain what "examine" means in the context of the verse. Examine in the concordance actually means 'to test'. I hope these help.

Gal_5:16-17 This I say then, Walk in the Spirit, and ye shall not fulfil the lust of the flesh. 17 For the flesh lusteth against the Spirit, and the Spirit against the flesh: and these are contrary the one to the other: so that ye cannot do the things that ye would.

Gal_5:24-26 And they that are Christ's have crucified the flesh with the affections and lusts. 25 If we live in the Spirit, let us also walk in the Spirit. 26 Let us not be desirous of vain glory, provoking one another, envying one another.

I'm still trying to figure out exactly what "examine" is meaning in this verse. No one would be able to take communion if absolutely nothing was wrong with anybody. I believe in the death, burial, and resurrection of Jesus Christ and believes He's coming back...is that not enough?

We don't take communion seriously. The first Passover took place in the Old Testament with the departure of the children of Israel leaving Egypt. For forty years in the wilderness there was not one sick person out of 2 1/2 million. The sick should be healed during the taking of the elements of communion. "Do this in remembrance of me". By his stripes we are healed. "For this cause many are weak and sick among you because we do not discern the Lord’s body".

We desperately need Jesus and because of His death on the cross, we have spiritual life. Our physical life is dependent on our daily food and drink. Eating or drinking out of our physical needs of true hunger and thirst, is symbolic of our deep need of Christ. So, eating communion is every single time we eat or drink out of our need of it - rather than greed, arrogance, boredom, conformity, or any other reason. Then we are able to be truly thankful.

We see through the glass as in the dark, but when we are face to face with Jesus we will know, as we are known. Christ is the head of the man, and the man is the head of the woman. Yet in the spirit there is neither male or female we are all one in Christ. Many of our questions will be answered when we stand before Jesus, as he is the perfect one who knows all things.

"In the Lord", is unclear. Does the Greek root shed any light as to the verse? Is this dealing with only mortal existence or in the life to come?

I feel called to oppose the often traditional teaching of this passage. My interpretation is based on this epistle rather than a study of historical culture. In the early part of this letter, Paul says he has determined to know nothing save Jesus Christ and Him crucified. He seems to refute worldly wisdom and THINGS that cause divisions. Then, beginning at ch.7:1, he yields to their more worldly questions and explains both sides of various issues, dividing them with words like "nevertheless" which we find in our v.11. Being "IN THE LORD" is a life connection with our God that other religious cultures (like Muslims & Jews) do not have, therefore it is proper for them to practice the principles described in our vs.3 thru 9. With this view, we do not need to wrest vs. 11 & 16. Also, the word "HEAD" is defined as source in vs. 8&9. Lets keep our focus on Jesus Christ and Him crucified rather than religious symbols that relate to those who are not "IN THE LORD".

This chapter 11 of 1st Corinthians should make alot if not all Protestants no matter what denomination, learn what St.Paul was trying to get across to those who the letter / epistle was written to. This so called remembrance / symbolic jester of our Lords supper "The Holy Eucharist" Eucharist means "Thanksgiving", for some unknown reason just does not register that this IS The New Covenant that Christ established and shared and gave to us! If I'm not mistaken, this was basically the last thing that Christ shared with his disciples before he was Crucified! If the Last Supper, Communion, The Holy Eucharist is just a symbolic jester, than how can a man or women bring damnation upon him or herself by receiving Communion unworthily as it say in verse 29 "for he whoever Eats and drinks unworthily,eats and drinks a sentence against oneself, especially if you don't recognize that this Is indeed my Body and this Is My Blood, Paul says "not discerning it to be the Body of our Lord! Another thing that ALL Protestants should do some research on, is what Church can trace it's begining all the way back to the 1st century. Only one "The Roman Catholic Church". You also need to research Martin Luther's 95 thesis and see if he Really had the AUTHORITY to basically split Christ church that had stood strong for almost 1500 years! Peace be with you.

More thoughts about the religious covering issue. Lets keep our interpretation of this difficult passage in context to avoid idolatry and lets keep our eyes on Jesus and his growing kingdom. In the beginning of this letter to the Corinthians, Paul determines to know nothing save Jesus Christ and Him crucified. This thrust is most likely the "ordinances" mentioned in our v.2. Vs, 8-9 provide the setting for the "head" subject. The most likely definition of the Gr. word for "head" is "source" rather than authority. Adams body was the source of material of which God created Eve. This same Gr. word is also used in Acts 22:28, where it is translated to "sum" as the money source for obtaining Roman citizenship. Christ is now the head (source of spirit life) for every man (male and female) no longer Adam. Paul makes it clear in Gal. 3:28, that in Christ, male and female are the same. This passage was written as response to their questions (see 7:1) after he explains both sides of various circumstances, dividing them with "but" and "nevertheless" as you find in our V.11. God fearing women who are not in Christ are right to wear a veil indicating her role in humanity's fall into sin. The word "power" in v.10 means jurisdiction and is altogether removed from the errant "symbol". Please see Rev.2:26 for the same two Gr. words translated to "power over". Our V.16 has Paul's conclusion to the covering custom.

Paul is urge us to imitate him and keep the tradition as just as he deliver to us (christian) and remind us who the head is in human nature man and Christ being the head above human being and after below man and woman pray head cover on top of their hair. Even they have long hair.Long hair is given as covering/tend for beauty. Let us not keep the creed of God as delivered to usby the apostles and not change things aCcording to our feeling.

Her hair was given to her for a covering. so her hair is the covering. it says if she removes the covering she may as well be shaved bald which is shameful for a woman. so i am led to believe that cutting the hair is just as shameful as shaving it completely because cutting it removes it from your head. and it must be pretty important to God first off because He inspired Paul to write it and second off He said the obediance of not cutting it gave her power with the angels. if angels know us by that act of obediance then there must be some major significants to it. God says in His word that if we love Him we will keep His commandments. I dont believe He would have given Peter the keys to the kingdom if Peter was gonna just write what his opinion was nor do i believe that He would have chosen Paul to be an apostle if Paul were gonna mislead His children.

BEAUTIFUL EXAMPLE!

4 Don't cover up the head of Christ when one has Gift of Prophesy or is praying. SPREAD THE WORD!

5 Man, on the other hand, has a whole lot of rules that man has made for himself. Religious babble of Iudgment is offered. Shame, questions of rules, justifications and Babel of "everybody has their own beliefs" is enforced. Babble.rabble.dabble men go on. Where's God at in this? Dress codes and rules first! God comes second.

7 The Glory of God spreads the Glory of God. Man spreads his own glory.

8 Christ is not of man, but man is of Christ.

9 Christ was not Created for man, but man for Christ.

16 The rules of man, the shame offered, and Iudgments offered are not Holy, nor is this the way that Holy carries on.

Beautiful example.

Paul's big message everywhere: JUDGE NOT! You OWN your Iudgments! He who had Wrathful Iudgment and was given a Divine Gift of Grace who then went out to Spread the Grace of God.

God has Grace.

Come on, really? The truth is exactly the opposite. Head of people approaching the Holiness OUGHT to be covered continually: Leviticus 10:6, 21:10 and Ezekiel 24:17. People are seriously warned to pay their best possible attention and to take the best possible care with interpreting the Law and God's will. According to that warning, this so-called apostle Paul is a creature from the deepest Hell: he turned upside down everything he ever could. Matthew 5:19.

God has a place for everything,and everything a
place. Everything is placed they way He wanted it.
The sun,moon,stars,seas,earth,man,woman,children,
and so on. We enter into a destructive mode when
we try to twist or manipulate God's plan. If He
wanted it the way we want it that's the way it
would be. Please understand the scriptures are
"not of private interpretation." What is written
was written long before we were on this planet.
The Word of God is not going to change just to accommodate our whimsical thinking.

It's not so much what we think of verses 3-7(I just had to include v.3), it's what the Word of God says and our reaction to it. If it does in fact mean what it says, why then do we try to interpret it differently? Could the reason be that the scriptures often conflict with modern
thinking? Man's order of things are most often
diametrically opposed to God's. I'm reminded of
"Naaman" captain of the host of the armies of
Syria, a "mighty man of valor, but he was a leper"
When told by "Elisha" how to rid himself of the
leprosy, he was "insulted." When he obeyed he was
cured.God wants a proper response to instructions,
not a complaint about "old fashion" scriptures.
If our response is caused by prejudice opinion and
not through prayerful research then that's where
we start. How we "respond" to scriptures carry as
much weight personally,as do the scriptures.

Ben be careful when you are led by what you feel they usually lead away from GODS word

Don't be confused if u really look close to what it says he says that a woman should pray with her head covered n if she don't then its the same as if her hair was cut off or shaven so she should cover her head when she prays n then he says that the hair itself is not the covering

In v2 Paul tells us to keep the ordinances as they are delivered to us.What is a ordinance?Definition of ORDINANCE. 1. a: an authoritative decree or direction Then he proceeds through v.15 to give us insructions.I think we should remember that these are not only Paul's insructions to us but Gods insructions to us. 2 Timothy 3:16 All scripture [is] given by INSPIRATION of God, and [is] profitable for doctrine, for reproof, for correction, for instruction in righteousness: I think we should keep it simple when we read Gods Word .Read it believe what it says and follow it.As for v16 I do not believe that verse is telling us to disregard the first part of the chapter.Why would Paul under inspiration of God waste half of a chapter giving us instructions only to turn around and tell us to disregard it?

response to Gary's comment on the Kingshouse teaching. I'm sorry, but my pursuit of truth in this passage has led to a different pursuasion. May our Lord direct us to His truth. Paul opens this letter to the Corinnthians by declaring that he determines to promote only Jesus Christ and Him crucified. (Ch.2:2). From Ch.7:1, he does submit responses to their less significant questions, explaining both sides of the issues, divided by words like "nevertheless" which we find in V.11 of our passage. Part of the subject matter is refering to Adam's descendants and the other part to "THOSE IN THE LORD". The cloth covering appears to apply to the religious women with only the Adamic connection to teh Creator, whereas Paul declares that the churches of God have no such custom. The definition for custom is "an established practice" and hardly fits to "contention".
I feel that the common misinterpretation of this passage originates with the word "head" of V.3. Vs.8-9 indicate "head" means source rather than superior. Christ is now the head/source of connection to God for EVERY person(V.3). In Jesus, there is no male or female(Gal.3:28). In the Bible, veil and head covering indicated shame, defeat and separation from God ( 2 Sam. 15:30, Isa. 25:7-9, Matt. 27:51). Without Jesus, the woman's role in creation and the fall would merit wearing a veil. To account for this common error, many translators have twisted Vs. 10 & 16 to say the opposite of the original scriptures.
May we build up one another in the Lord and be cautious of religious distractions.

I encourage anyone who is wondering if this scripture means what it plainly states to yahoo search (kinghouse headcovering) There they go into great length in explaining this scripture.

Vs.4-7 response. this passage 1-16 is viewed by many as the most difficult one in the Bible and has been twisted in most modern translations. The writer, Paul, wants to promote only Jesus and Him crucified (see Ch.2:2). From Ch.7:1 on, he responds to their less important questions. We don't know what the questions were, so we just assume from Paul's responses. It appears that V.16 is Paul's verdict to this whole religious issue of hair length and cloth head covering. According to Vs. 8-9, this passage is refering to a womans position in relation to God, as a result of creation order. Many people interpret the word head in V.3 to mean superior or boss, but my studies show it to mean source or origin. Throughout the Bible, a symbolic veil or covering appears to indicate failure, defeat and shame. See 2 Sam. 15:30, Isa. 25:7-9, Matt. 27:51. Some major non-christian religions still practice having women covered. In our passage, Paul acknowledges this, but in V.11, he clarifies that "IN THE LORD" things are different. For Christian women, Jesus is now our connection to God rather than the first Adam. Gal. 3:28 says "there is neither male or female, being in Christ Jesus. Religious complexities like this tend to distract us from the new life of being in Jesus.

I would like to hear what people think of verses 4-7

V. 2, traditions / teachings may have evolved into a different concept than Paul intended. Paul's theme, in general was Jesus Christ and Him crucified as opposed to religous principles and rules like the Pharisees held to. In Philippians 3:8, he strongly disregards the religious complex in order that he may win Christ. In the opening thrust of this letter to the Corinthians, Paul kind of bursts out with Jesus. In the first 10 Vs., he uses 26 words naming Jesus. In V. 23 and Ch.2:2, he determines not to know anything other than Christ and Him crucified. In Ch.4:4, he instructs, not to judge things. Beginning at Ch. 7:1, he yields access to their questions, of which we have here in Ch.11. In this context, it seems more likely that the word "ordinances" in V.2, refers to his teachings about Jesus rather than turning back to religious principles again. The very next statement is, "The head / source of every man (including male and female) is Christ. (following this; the head / source of woman was Adam's rib). (Using head as source is established in Vs. 8-9). The Roman soldier used this same Gr. word, "With a great SUM/HEAD obtained I this freedom ( Acts 22:28). Gal. 3:28 states, "There is neither male or female, for ye are all one in Christ Jesus".

i love god word and is knowledge because god try to help us to live our life right but let a man examine himself and so let him eat of that bread and drink of that cup i think that we have to followers lord first because he is the lord our god

The earlier writings state "We have no such custom". The churches of God did not hold to such an established practice as was just defined as being for those of the first creation (vs.8 &9). For women who are "IN THR LORD",(V.11) as with men the life connection with God is now through Jesus, not Adam and Eve. Maybe non-Christian religions should wear a symbol of a sin barrier between the creator and fallen humanity.

This scripture has been used for years as a tool for sin toward woman that cut their hair. I am a Saved woman and just had seventeen inches cut from my head due to having bad headachs. People looked at me as if i had lost my mind. But I know the scripture is used out of content. It siad that if a woman has long hair it is "her" glory not anyone elses glory.It never said its a sin to cut her hair,or that a woman has got to have long hair in order to be or stay saved. Dont get me wrong I think I and most Woman look and like long hair ,but we have to know that God is much bigger and more concerned about better things than this small and unpresidented issue. Now Im not saying that woman ought to go cutting off all their hair because if you have a husband, I believe its something to be talked about with your spouse.Truly let these words I speak to you be my personal thouhgt and some be of truth.Heavenly smiles Constance Scott.

The Gr. word for custom is "Sunetheia" and its definition is "An established custom or practice". Contention does not fit this definition. The K.J.V. and other early translations agree with the Gr. in having Paul write "We have no such custom" whereas modern renderings reverse this message to say "We have no custom other than this". When we take "head" of v. 3 to mean superior or chief, instead of source in the order of creation, as described in vs. 7-9, we create a problem. Verse 10 is also frequently twisted to say the opposite of what Paul wrote. Why don't we do word studies instead of defending traditional interpretations? Jesus told the well-meaning Pharisees, "You have made the word of God of none effect through your tradition. May our Lord direct and bless.

I find this difficult passage to be the most manipulated one in the Bible. Many have completely reversed the message of v. 10 & 16 to make it flow with traditional understanding of the other verses. This is cause for concern. What is the root error?
The word "head" in v. 3, sometimes seems to indicate chief or superiority. It can also mean top, source or origin, as "head of a river" - where the river begins.
The same Gr. word is used; "The stone which the builder rejected has become the HEAD of the corner (foundation stone, source of stability". Also, the Roman soldier used the same Gr. word, translated to "sum. With a great sum obtained I this freedom"( Acts 22:28). The head, or sum of money was the origin or source to purchase his citizenship.
In our 1 Cor. 7-9, the word head-kephale is also described as source or origin in the creation sequence. The man's body was the source of material for the woman, and she was made for him, hense "the glory of the man is the woman" i.e. he exults and delights in her. It appears that this use of the word head does not mean superior or boss but rather source, in creation.
Paul says, "judge in yourselves" v.3, and v. 10 says the woman ought to have power on/over the head, which is true to the Gr. "Exusia epi" and other early translations. Exusia is defined as "Jurisdiction, rule, liberty and authority. Rev. 2:6 used the same 2 Gr. words; "I will give him POWER OVER the nations. We wouldn't twist that like we have v. 10 in our passage.
But, why would Paul nail down a case, then turn around? In ch.1&2 v.2, he is determined to promote "only Christ and him crucified". Then from ch.7 on, he does respond to their less significant questions with duel comments, using such words as "nevertheless", which we find in our v.11. First about the human race from Adam, then those "In the Lord"(v.11). The believer's source of connection is now through Jesus rather than through Adam.
Throughout the Bible, "veil / covering" is used as a symbol of defeat or disgrace ( 2 Sam. 15:30, Jere. 14:3, Isa. 25:7 and Matt. 27:51), before the atonement. So, a symbolic head covering is appropriate for worldly religions without the atonement, but might become an idol, distracting believers from him, hense "We have no such custom, neither do the churches of God". EVERY man in v.3 might include women.

I find this difficult passage to be the most manipulated one in the Bible. Many have completely reversed the message of v. 10 & 16 to make it flow with traditional understanding of the other verses. This is cause for concern. What is the root error?
The word "head" in v. 3, sometimes seems to indicate chief or superiority. It can also mean top, source or origin, as "head of a river" - where the river begins.
The same Gr. word is used; "The stone which the builder rejected has become the HEAD of the corner (foundation stone, source of stability". Also, the Roman soldier used the same Gr. word, translated to "sum. With a great sum obtained I this freedom"( Acts 22:28). The head, or sum of money was the origin or source to purchase his citizenship.
In our 1 Cor. 7-9, the word head-kephale is also described as source or origin in the creation sequence. The man's body was the source of material for the woman, and she was made for him, hense "the glory of the man is the woman" i.e. he exults and delights in her. It appears that this use of the word head does not mean superior or boss but rather source, in creation.
Paul says, "judge in yourselves" v.3, and v. 10 says the woman ought to have power on/over the head, which is true to the Gr. "Exusia epi" and other early translations. Exusia is defined as "Jurisdiction, rule, liberty and authority. Rev. 2:6 used the same 2 Gr. words; "I will give him POWER OVER the nations. We wouldn't twist that like we have v. 10 in our passage.
But, why would Paul nail down a case, then turn around? In ch.1&2 v.2, he is determined to promote "only Christ and him crucified". Then from ch.7 on, he does respond to their less significant questions with duel comments, using such words as "nevertheless", which we find in our v.11. First about the human race from Adam, then those "In the Lord"(v.11). The believer's source of connection is now through Jesus rather than through Adam.
Throughout the Bible, "veil / covering" is used as a symbol of defeat or disgrace ( 2 Sam. 15:30, Jere. 14:3, Isa. 25:7 and Matt. 27:51), before the atonement. So, a symbolic head covering is appropriate for worldly religions with the atonement, but might become an idol, distracting believers from him, hense "We have no such custom, neither do the churches of God". EVERY man in v.3 might include women.

Since Paul is supportive of unity and very opposed to divisions elsewhere in his writings, I tend to look for his disapproval here also. He has just written "I praise you not", and imediatly afterward he is also negative, saying "This is not to eat the Lords supper". So, it seems most likely that the "approved ones" is referring to approval by the sect rather than approval by God. Their grouping made it obvious which ones were favored. Maybe this was even noticable during their suppers which caused their gathering to worsen their lives rather than improve them. May our Lord grant his wisdom.