1 Corinthians Chapter 13 Discussion Page 2

Hey Rick,

Yup, I was getting ready to come after you (Just kidding). I knew what you meant. Have a blessed day in Christ Jesus!

Jesse I mean't being criticized.

Jesse I never consider correct communication critical, also there is wisdom in a multitude of counselors.

When its comes to Gods Word the deeper we Dig The greater the treasures.

Rick,

Thanks for the clarification. I think we are in agreement with each other on what is being taught in 1 Corinthians 13:10. I'm sorry if I was being too critical. I think GiGi nailed it on what "the perfect" is referring to.

I think the "that which is in part shall be done away" is talking about our earthly pilgrimage. We know in part. We only know what God gives us. We don't know everything. We have to study the bible and trust God's Spirit to reveal the truth of Christ to us. We can't study it like a textbook because it requires the revelation of God's Spirit.

Someday, we won't need that. We'll be with the Lord face to face. We won't need a bible study. There will be no bibles in heaven. We'll be with Christ! Right now we know in part. But you see, the other half is "but when that which is perfect is come." When we reach what would be called maturity, not maturity spiritually here, but the completed perfect state. When we reach the Lord, all the other stuff will be done away!

We won't need a bible. We won't need all the tools that we struggle with. We'll be with Christ and we'll become that complete person, and we will see Him face to face. But then shall I know even as also I am known. ( 1 Corinthians 13:12). That's an interesting little phrase. It means that when I get to this perfection, when I see Him face to face, I'm going to look back and know me as I was known by Him. Right now, I don't even know myself. But one day I will know even as I was known. And guess what? Agape will still be there. That will never be done away.

God Bless you also my brother and keep sharing your knowledge!

Yes, Jesse, that is my understanding, also.

I have always thought that Paul was referring to "the perfect" as what will be done when we are resurrected.

Hi Jesse My apology wrong wording we by the flesh have no spiritual abilities all are given in the gift of

the Spirit we have been given, my point is how do you wrestle against spiritual power if we don't have power

given by God through Christ to operate then Stand. Other than that we understand the same thing. God Bless

Rick,

I am not sure what you mean when you say that when we are gathered face to face with Christ there will be no need for our spiritual abilities. My understanding is that we have no spiritual abilities. It is Christ in us that has all the capacities and abilities to produce spiritual things. We do not have the capacity to produce anything spiritual. All we can produce is flesh. But I would agree that one day when all believers meet face to face in the presence of the Lord, we will then come to the realization of what true worship is all about. There will no longer be any need for our bibles!

Jesse Trust me no argument but what is your understanding I know the greek and from what I gather

when we are gathered together face to face with christ there will be no need for our spiritual abilities

so like I said go for it.

Jack,

To have a good understanding of 1 Corinthians 13:10, it would have to be taken together with verses 11, 12, and 13. I can share with you what is being taught here if you're willing to bear with me as it might take two or three parts.

You see, there's two phases here.



Whatever is now is in part. Knowledge is in part. Prophecy is in part. And tongues is in part.



But there's going to come a time when that which is perfect is come, and everything else is going to be done away.



Now some people say that which is perfect was the scriptures, that once the bible was finalized, we call it canonized, and the stamp of authority put on it by the early church, that when that happened, we no longer need prophecies and tongues and knowledge.



Other people say that it has to do with the coming of Christ.



But the Greek word for that which is perfect is TOTELEION. It is never used in the bible for the coming of Christ.



Some people say that it means Christ Himself. Certainly He is perfect, but TOTELEION is not used for Jesus Christ either.



Interesting that it is neuter in the Greek text. It is never used for the coming of Christ. It's never used for Christ. It's never made in reference to the bible. That's just a personal belief.



But TOTELEION, the word TELEION is the word in the scriptures that represents maturity, perfectness!



If you would like for me to explain how all this works using the last three verses, I would be happy to do so if you are willing to read a longer post!

Hi Jack 1 Corinthians 13:10 -12 When that which is perfect is come is speaking in reference when christ

who is perfect comes back for His body the church which will be made perfect in resurrected bodies.

The key is face to face when we meet him in the air but for now we have the assuratey of

the spirit in us or the earnest or the token we are born again and awaiting the return then face to face then

we are going to know even as we are now known. Verse 13 Given all the things shared from the chapter the

greatest is charity agapeo[the Love of God in the Renewed mind in Manifestation.

1 cor 13:10 when what that is perfect is come ?

Thank you Grace for sharing God's Word as relating to tongues. I feel the need to share a story I was told by a missionary some years back. I can't recall what country he was in, but for the sake of his witness we'll call it Thailand. He had told me that during one of there church services a women had spoken out in a tongue, but there was no interpretation. After the service was over, an older Chinese woman asked the woman who had spoken out in a tongue, if she knew what she had said. She answered that she had no idea, but was certain that she was praising God the whole time. The older Chinese woman told her no she was not, and in fact, the entire time she was using her "tongues" she was actually cursing God. Needless to say the woman who spoke out in a "tongue" repented and never used it again. With that said, please be careful all that speak in a "tongue" or "heavenly language", because you no not want to give service to the enemy. May God give us eyes to see and ears to hear all of what He would have for us.

1 Corinthians 13:8-10 Precious friends, Has the "gift" of tongues ceased? Some say no. What Saith The PERFECT Scriptures {or Are They PERFECT?}:

"Charity never faileth: but whether there be prophecies, they shall fail; whether there be tongues, they shall cease; whether there be knowledge, it shall vanish away. For we know in part, and we prophesy in part. But when That Which Is Perfect Is Come, then that which is in part shall be done away."

IF "The Scriptures Are PERFECT, And, Since They Have Already Come," Then the "gift" of tongues has ceased. Do some believe in IMperfect Scriptures, so tongues have Not ceased? IF so, then how do they "know The PERFECT Truth Of God," calling it IMperfect? What Saith The HOLY Scriptures?:

1) Paul "Completed or Filled Up" The Scriptures With Romans Through Philemon, Which Show us God's 'Program' Of Pure GRACE In HIS "Revelation Of The MYSTERY" For Today's "Dispensation Of God, 'Full-Filling' God's Word Of Truth!" Colossians 1:25

2) God HIMSELF Considers HIS Word PERFECT, Else Why Would HE "Do The Following"?:

"I will worship toward THY holy temple, and praise THY Name for THY Lovingkindness and for THY Truth: for THOU Hast 'Magnified' Thy WORD Above All THY {Perfect!} Name!" Psalms 138:2 cp Psalms 12:6-7 "God's Pure And Preserved Word," Correct?

3) Since God Does Not have these three "gifts of prophecy, tongues, and word of knowledge" in effect, today, What Does HE "have In Effect"? What Saith The Scriptures?:

"And NOW Abideth faith, hope, charity, these three; but The Greatest of these is Charity!" 1 Corinthians 13:13 PERFECT Truth, Correct, Precious friends?

Please Be Richly Encouraged, Enlightened, Exhorted, and Edified!

2 Timothy 2:15; Romans 16:25; Ephesians 1:3-9; Ephesians 3:9 = Grace/Mystery fellowship [Romans - Philemon], For ALL "to SEE," today, since "that which is in part has been done away" ( 1Co 13:10 )?

God's 'Simple' Will: Link

Hi Merlene When the Bible talks about the Hope of the Return of Christ it is in relationship to the gathering together for the saints. That event is strictly on Gods Time table. It cannot be prayed for, it cannot be believed for, we can't pray for it to happen sooner but it is our fantastic guarantee that our lord and saviour is coming back to raise us up with perfect bodies talk about an event to look for forward to.

Hi Marlene When God in the bible says Hope it is in regards to the return of Christ which we cannot believe or pray or act in any way to make it occur any faster, it will happen in Gods time table. Example you can pray to and ask for a better job that's possible, we can pray for someone to be healed that's available, you can pray even for people to have a change of heart. But what's known as the Hope of the return which is future that's Gods guarantee of our Glorious departure from this world, in new bodies I might add.

Marlene,

Hope comes from the word ELPIS. The word hope is found in several places in the Bible. Romans 5:4 is one place. It says, "And patience, experience; and experience works out hope:"



You see, our hope is certain. Hope, Elpis in the Greek, does not mean a hope like wish, "I wish it will happen." It's an expectancy. You expect it to happen. You know it's going to happen.



When God proves Himself to us through all of our situations, that builds our hope because of experience in Christ.

And we see this in Romans Chapter 5, Verses 1 through 21 which speaks of the privileges of justification.

What is hope

Thanks you helped alot

Lauren : I don't think that you have anything to worry about . I wish I had a church full of people that had the love in their hearts as you do !

Robert,

I don't think Paul was speaking of an actual "heavenly language."

1 Corinthians 13:1 says, "Though I speak with the tongues of men and of angels, and have not charity, I am become as sounding brass, or a tinkling cymbal."

In verses 1 through 3, the word "though" is mentioned 5 times. You may even want to circle it in your bible.

Verse 1 reads "Though I speak with the tongues of men and of angels," and there are some people that use that verse to say "You see, Paul spoke with these mystical languages!"

Though I speak the language of men and of angels, and so people will say that even though I violate what the bible says about tongues, the bible does say that there's an "angelic language" that we can speak, because Paul says "even though I speak."

No, he didn't say that! That's why I told you to notice the word "though" and circle it. In Greek, these are all words that are called EON, which means "if." It is called EON with the subjunctive.

In other words, Paul is presenting five phrases that are hypothetical. He's not saying "though I do speak," he's saying "if" I did!

I wanted you to see that because that is very important in the original language. Some people think that just because of the English, Paul is saying though I do speak with the language of angels, and he's not saying that at all. This is all hypothetical.

The first one: Though I speak with the tongues of men and of angels, and have not Agape, I become as a sounding brass, or as a tinkling cymbal. It's just noise!

It's kind of interesting because hypothetically, and in fact, it is called hypothetical exaggeration. The Corinthians are so carnal and because they were carnal, he is pushing this out to exaggeration in the human.

Some of them did think that they were speaking in the languages of angels and they thought that this was "super spirituality." Paul says "Even if I should be able to do that, and I don't have Agape motivating it, I'm just making noise. It's worthless!"

Lauren ,i think i know exactly what you mean ,He gives us everything ,it some times overwhelms me ,we have nothing to give but our love , thats all He wants from us ,that we love Him enough to trust Him implicitly and do as He asks us out of our love for and faith in Him and the promises He has made to us , we are supposed to be meek but i know i sometimes burn inside and long to shout at the top of my voice to people "read the Bible ! God loves you ! Jesus is coming " the best we can do is to lead the kind of life we know He wants us to and be patient ,if we get the chance to help some one thats great but if we dont we dont ,we all have different abilities ,i have always felt that we are like the Levites in a way ,no inheritance in this world .Isaih ch66 v2 ,Num ch18 v20 ,Deut ch18 v2 ,Rev ch1 v6.

Thank you for leading me to this passage again. Lately I had been looking at myself too much, sad that I have seemed

to accomplish so little for the Lord, I am no great evangelist, not even a good one, I live a very ordinary life, nothing

really spiritual or religious at all about it. I have a job that pays very little comparatively speaking, but I love it, I work

with kids in the public school, help them get through "the system." Last year I had the opportunity to teach, but it proved too much for me. I went back to being a helper. But so often, I wish I could be a better witness

for Christ...... The discrepancy inside me breaks my heart in two sometimes, how strong is his love inside, but how little I have to show for it. Then I read 1 Corinthians 13, and am reminded, it is not about all that I DO for God, it is about His love abiding in my heart, just being with Him, and loving him, and being near Him. Wow, that really helped me today. Thank you.

read every day 1 Cor 13

since the greatest commandment and the second commandment is telling us to love.

Hello Gary,

I understand your question of "charity" in place of "love". Which I believe we all today know the word "love" better than "charity". Why they chose to use that word several hundred years ago I don't know. Maybe more common then as today it means more of giving money. Stated as "giving alms" then. Love and charity is the same Greek word "agape" in the Greek texts. Meaning "brotherly love, affection, good will, love." It is translated 26 times as "charity" and 85 times as "love".

The NKJV is better than most other versions printed. There are still differences from the original KJV that I don't like. I know there are some things that are easier to read as what you just noted. In two instances in Acts 3:13 and verse 26. Instead of saying "His Son Jesus"(God's Son) it states "His Servant Jesus". In 1 Corinthians 1:18. it states "to us who are BEING saved" from "unto us which ARE saved".

Of coarse these are very subtle changes as there are more. Even as I was lead to Jesus Christ by reading another version of the Holy Bible. The KJV is the best and most accurate though.

To bring up one thing I came across just the other night. I was going over the Wycliff Bible which was written/translated in 1382. If someone thinks the 1611 KJV is hard to read, this version is almost like another language in how early and different the English language was. Most of it, that I went over, is pretty accurate next to the KJV. I came across one word, in one verse, that is very important that differed from the KJV. Knowing that the Wycliff Bible was translated from the Latin Vulgate, and not the Greek texts, I looked up the Vulgate. Copying and translating the verse it actually came out to what the KJV stated. This was very comforting knowing that just this one word was accurate in the KJV to the Vulgate which was written in the year 382AD.

Sorry about all that extra stuff. I just thought I would use this post to bring this up to you and others.

God Bless.

I was looking in my NKJV by Thomas Nelson at 1 Corinthian 13:4 and it says "Love suffereth long, and is kind; Love envieth not; Love vaunteth not itself, is not puffed up, 5 Doth not behave itself unseemly, seeketh not her own, is not easily provoked, thinketh no evil; 6Rejoiceth not in iniquity, but rejoiceth in the truth; 7Beareth all things, believeth all things, hopeth all things, endureth all things. 8Love never fails."

What goes on in your KJV I do not understand how charity which never fails can replace Love.

Prophet 14th Generation

Gary "Nobraham"

I have long used this chapter as a litmus paper to examine my relationships with all in my immediate circle. It being Biblical is useful too to understand the authenticity of others toward myself. Now I am learning it is of even greater importance to use this as a litmus test to measure the authenticity and integrity of myself and a gauge to measure my spiritual maturity. No greater love has a man than he would give his life for his friends. These words of Christ represent the highest attainment within our reach.

I carry 71 years, and have loved this chapter since I read the Bible at the end of childhood, looking for answers to questions I could not even ask yet. Answers did not come from reading but from life, even as this chapter seems written from human experience. I have been through all the changes of pride it describes, and have observed what remains when pride is eroded.

I say it differently to myself. In verse 10, I substitute the word "complete" for the word "perfect", for it is complete reality that I have come to look for. In verse 12, I sometimes substitute "mirror" for the word "glass".

And at the end, I add my own thought,

"And the foe of charity is fear".

Yes I agree as well.

If you turn 1corithians chapter 13 verse 1; into a check list for your self, than you will see a even bigger picture.You will find yourself realizing, did I love in everything I do and or did?