1 Corinthians Chapter 5 Discussion Page 2

We all make mistakes. Just be quick to apologize to the Lord.

I had to separate myself from tv shows with "loose mouth" disease. I watch PBS lol.

I enjoy some FM Christian Radio when I clean the house.

It's called Sanctification. Type it in the Search Box.

Does this mean if we badmouth god we're subject to same punishment?

Dear Fred,

It sounds like you interpret my providing someone with scripture as a 'veer away from scripture' and I don't know why you assume that. I first recommended scripture- Paul's writings. Then I recommended the page which has even more scripture- someone already did a lot of work pulling all the verses together. Then I included 2 more scriptures. Maybe total the info has dozens of scripture for him to look at, so I don't understand the accusation of 'veer away from scripture.'

As someone who spends lots of time trying to help people it's hard to see baseless criticism especially in place that's supposed to be uplifting. Your response didn't have any scripture so you have a stronger case against yourself. "Gods or mans?" God bless.

Hello Vance. In everything regarding the Church, one clear instruction given by Paul is found in Acts 20:28 is, "Take heed therefore unto yourselves, and to all the flock, over the which the Holy Ghost hath made you overseers, to feed the church of God, which he hath purchased with his own blood."

Because of the value of every child of God, the pastoral care, control, guidance, teaching & love given to them are so important. As Paul instructed the Ephesian Elders to "take heed" (or, be very mindful) of yourselves in both their personal & ministerial lives, so also they must not to disregard the "flock" for which God had given them responsibility. Paul was thinking more about some men entering into the Church bringing in "damnable heresies" & leading the innocent unlearned members away. Yet, the elders' responsibilities extended much more to all areas of Church life.

1 Corinthians chapter 5 tells us of Paul's grief over a horrible sin found in the Church there. Even though Paul couldn't be everywhere to administer discipline, the elders were expected to identify & deal with any problem in the Church, especially sin. The elder (or, pastor), must view his congregation as Christ's flock, & the great responsibility that Jesus has bestowed on him. Just as a flock of sheep need the constant sound of the shepherd's voice, a strong prod with the staff, or even chasing the straying sheep to bring it back to the fold, so too must God's servant be diligent to know his 'sheep' & to bring back erring ones.

When the 'sheep' know that they're loved, cared for & will be guided aright, they will respond as if Christ Himself is speaking with them. The elder/pastor needs to let the erring ones know that he is aware of their sin. He needs to bring them together to deal with the problem, in the spirit of love, meekness & for restoration. They need to be taught & warned from God's Word. And if they refuse to listen, they need to be separated, even for a time ( 1 Corinthians 5:6,7).

It seems that when we veer away from scripture, the wisdom and knowledge also become a little out of reach! Even using "got Questions" although ok, I am learning the importance of staying locked into the word! At times it may seem "monotonous". it is perhaps an indication that the next limb is about to evolve! The tree takes awhile, remembering what strengthens the roots is not always easy! Such is the world, God is in charge! Precisely in and through His words! This 2 is how the church will evolve, whos church it will be will remain too be seen! Gods or mans?

Dear Vance,

That is a good question to ask. It seems a kind of balance needs to be made, because all have sinned and fall short. Yet, deliberate sinning while claiming to be a Christian following Jesus is incongruent ( 1 John 1:6). And deliberate sinning that is apparent within the church is especially toxic to the church body.

Paul in the Bible dealt with this when he wrote letters to the churches. He seemed frustrated with them to a degree. Paul admitted his own struggles with the flesh as well.

How should sin in the church be handled? It probably depends on the circumstance. I would recommend searching the internet for "How should sin in the church be handled?" and clicking on the Got Questions website. I believe they have solid Bible-based answers that might be helpful.

And of course most importantly, pray to God. Ask for wisdom and discernment on how best to minister to your church body. Also, it shouldn't all fall upon you. You need deacons and helpers so this doesn't all fall on you. I believe there is a higher standard for leaders in the church body and no one should serve as a leader who is being immoral. 1 Timothy 3:8-13

God bless you and your church!

How can deal with immorality people in the church as a Pastor?

how to understand leaven, unleavened, old leaven here?

In Acts 9:3 it says he came near Damascus when the light from heaven shone round about him, so how far was he from Damascus, a short distance or a longer distance, or how he got to Ananias in Damascus, we don't know, I don't believe any of that matters, as the real message of Acts 9 is the conversion of Saul the persecutor of the church to Paul the apostle of the church, Paul states this in 1 Corinthians 15:9 "For I am the least of the apostles, that am not meet to be called an apostle, because I persecuted the church of God."

Also, when the Lord spoke to Ananias in a vision, Ananias answered about all the evil that Saul had done in Jerusalem, but the Lord's reply was in Acts 9:15 "But the Lord said unto him, Go thy way: for he is a chosen vessel unto me, to bear my name before the Gentiles, and kings, and the children of Israel:"

I know that this doesn't clarify your question but I pray that this helps.

Jerry, Google shows me that the distance from Jerusalem to Damascus is about 150 miles, give or take. For a person to travel that distance by foot would take him about two weeks. Now considering the urgency of the matter on Saul's mind to speedily go to Damascus with his arrest warrants & haul back the Christians to Jerusalem for trial & death, I would think (& this is not in Scripture), that he would have had to travel by donkey or may even be by a chariot, carriage or cart to get there speedily. But if his only means of travel was on the back of a donkey, then that beast would have needed to be a sprightly animal so as to not delay Saul's important mission. Just my thoughts.

I'm sorry ,but that still does not clarify it for me. Because a person can arise from the ground if they are walking or riding an animal if they fell off.

I need more clarification. I had also considered that verse before hand.

Thanks

Jerry

I believe that Acts 9 verse 8 answers that,

"And Saul arose from the earth; and when his eyes were opened, he saw no man: but they led him by the hand, and brought him into Damascus."

My question is :

was saul riding a donkey or walking on the road to damascus ?

No, bowel movement is not mentioned nor implied in the Bible, but we do often see an archaic use of this word 'bowel' in both the Old & New Testaments. I wonder whether this is what you're referring to. If so, then the general understanding of this word is 'one's innermost being, or from the heart, & in some cases refers to the womb & other applications'.

You can check these Scriptures: Genesis 25:23 (the womb); Genesis 43:30 (the heart's yearnings); 2 Samuel 20:10 (the inner bodily parts, such as intestines, stomach, etc.); Philippians 2:1 (love & compassion); etc. So, it is word that has several meanings & applications, but one we wouldn't use now, rather using a word more specific to our intention.

I so enjoy all of Y'al commits.....I only have One think to say about the Churches only Teaching Love of Our Father and His Son Jesus Christ Our Savior.....I don't know if Y'al watch Dr. David Jeremiah....He's the only Pastor I have watch that Teaches All of The Bible....if Y'al get a chance watch His Church Service (A Shelter in the Storm of Life, The End Times)....This is the First Time on Here as for as Leaving a Message....I Thank Y'al as I am Learning so Much from Commits......I hope I have made some sense....May Our Savior Jesus Bless All

I agree! Most parables were warning people about hell and to not be complacent. Jesus said if u love me keep my commandments. Sad how people assume grace gets them off the hook for avoiding sin.

love the teaching,but one thing I see wrong with todays' church , there is almost no teaching on the wrath of God, only the Lord or God loves you.yes God loves us all,but no matter how much God loves us, it will not keep us from going to hell.I seldom here teachers or pastors say you must repent,change your evil ways,separate yourself from the world,ect..I think if bible teachers and pastors would teach the whole word of God,then there would not be homos and so called christians in the church.they would either get saved or leave. most people want Christ to be their savior ,but they don't want him to be their Lord.

Amen! I think we could all benefit by taking an honest look back and asking ourselves "How did they conduct themselves?" and where did we go wrong? It sure seems like we've gotten ourselves in such a huge mess today!

I was humored about the whole starting another church thing For a second, I thought "Hey, great idea," but then reality soon set in, and the thought over arguing over the color of the carpet, paint on the outside of the building, cushions on the pews, or no cushions, etc. etc. etc. Good grief!

As always, thank you so much for your kind and encouraging words. God Bless!

Jesse, no misunderstanding at all. My remark, "However, this wasn't the case in the early Church..." was simply an affirmation to what you stated. Your points were very clear & appreciated. Thank you.

Your understanding of the Mustard Seed parable was interesting though. I had never looked at it in that light, rather by the usual meaning: that the Word of God/Gospel being scattered/planted, & it would continue to spread out (grow) to the point of being a tree (i.e. a small tree/bush: wherein people that will become part of it, the Church) & the birds will lodge in its shadow (others will benefit by the Church, whether to hear God's message or receive comfort).

But I can see your understanding in view of the infiltration of evil into the Church. Indeed, the Church has become quite deformed today & increasingly lacking in its original design & beauty. Even though some adaptation to today's world needs to be made, I do also question to how far we have removed ourselves from her original design & purpose. But how do we get back to it? Start (another) Church? God forbid! Maybe, just to have a quiet influence in her through careful & methodical Biblical teaching & prayer.

Chris,

I'm glad you responded. I did not intend to make it seem like I was referring to the early church being like today's church. I hope others will not get that impression. I was a little sporadic in my thoughts, going from the church today, to the early church, and then back again, so I see how it can be taken the wrong way.

The church back in the first 300 years seemed to have their act together until Constantine came into the equation. Most of today's problems stem from the church becoming too large, and it was never intended to be that way, and I'll explain my reasoning in a second.

But I think most of our problems come from opening the door to everybody because we've become more concerned with numbers than teaching the truth of the gospel. It seems as though success is based on how much money the church makes, and how many people we can pack into the church. (Mega-Ministries)

The reason why I say that the church was never intended to be too large comes from studying the parable of the mustard seed. The mustard seed was not supposed to grow into such a large tree. I also have to keep in mind that in Mark's gospel, when Jesus was explaining the parable of the sower to the disciples, the first thing He said was, Know ye not this parable? and how then will ye know all parables?

That's key to me. If I understand the parable of the sower, I will understand all parables. I can't understand the others without understanding the parable of the sower. So when I study the mustard seed, I conclude that the birds represent evil, as in the parable of the sower. So we have birds lodging in the branches of this mustard seed plant. I see the mustard seed plant as representing the church.

The seed is planted in the ground, and it grows to be a monstrous tree, which is not normal for this herb. The mustard seed does not grow into a tree. But it grows so large that the birds come and lodge in the branches. And these birds are evil, and they come and mix with the good.

Jesse, that's an interesting observation you have made: that it is possible that Church leaders don't expel members for gross sin or even bringing in wrong doctrine because of the legal ramifications to them. However, this wasn't the case in the early Church & crazy laws we now have. Even though there are more verses to the Church leaders to gently deal with the matter & to help the sinning person to get victory again, yet 1 Cor 5:9-13 is quite explicit to Church discipline when the problem is serious.

I feel that in the Church today & given our governmental laws, one must only preach against evil, & specifically of sins which insidiously creeps into the Church, so that the ground rules are set & the guilty amongst them may sense conviction or may even leave of his own accord. But when the Church overlooks it completely or preaches an 'easy salvation' which gives the hapless soul no certainty of salvation or of eternity, that Church will be condemned the more.

Hello Adam, me again!

When I read Silvia's post and see her opening statement, I don't see where she is referring to all churches, unless you think the phrase "The church" is referring to denominational church organizations. When I see the phrase the church, I think of the body of Christ in general. I kind of agree with what she is saying. These things are in the body of Christ today. The sad part is that we in the body of Christ let it happen.

These things are in our churches, and many pastors are afraid to do anything about it because they can be sued for removing someone from their church because our churches have been made public. The early church was private. They met in homes. And they wouldn't even open the door and let you in if you didn't have the proper testimony. That's the way I wish the church was today. So if there is evil in the "church," and someone is removed, which they should be removed according to the bible, that person can turn around and sue that church. And in today's society, they would win that lawsuit.

It's nice to see you here reading and sharing your thoughts with other believers. On that note, I spent most of my morning a few days ago responding to the several questions you had specifically for me, and in turn, I suggested that you might be fair in answering those I sent to you. Please, if you have the time, can you answer those questions I sent to you. If you didn't get them, I can re-send.

Hi Silva, which church does this- the one you attend? Or do you believe all people in all churches act that way?

In decades of attending a variety of churches I never encountered a 'church' claiming that it's ok to get divorced without reason or cheat on your spouse. The Bible allows circumstances to end the marriage in cases of abuse or violation of the covenant like cheating. So, I don't believe the premise that every 'church' thinks one way toward hetero sin and another toward homo sin. All sin is bad and we are to avoid sin. Link

The Church doesn't even do this. They will tell the homosexuals they can't live in sin and must repent, but their pews are full of divorced and remarried people, these "Christians" are committing adultery with their new spouse, which God doesn't recognized as a covenant marriage. So, the elephant in the room, its ok to be divorced and remarried, but not homosexual. The plank in the eye in the church. Anyone who is living a sexual sin, whether fornicator, homosexual, and an adulterer, drunkard etc...will not inherit the kingdom of God. I Cor 6:9-10. We must preach the truth, marriage is for life, the divorced and remarried are committing adultery until they repent, leave their sin, leave their "spouse" because they still have a living spouse. Repent church.

Leslie, sorry you were offended by my comment, but I never referred to sinner or saint only SIN. I know that only Christ can forgive sins. 1 John 1:9 "If we confess our sins, He is faithful and just to forgive us our sins ..". I do not quite understand your comment, but God is Love.

And what seperates the sinner from the Christian? ONLY Christ. It is Christ who taketh away the sins of the world even in your tiny congragation. It is Satan who brings condemnation and it is satan who accuses the brethern. And you? Who are you to seperate in your judgement sinner from saint? Sinfully true is the body of Christ houses and even exhalts sin right up to the pulpit. Pray for sinners

I will pray for your repentance as well. Good day brother.

When Paul says not to eat with them, I think it means don't be associated too closely with that behavior. Jesus, said if your eye offends you pluck it out. He warns us not to let one body part "infest" the rest of our body. We're all members of the body of Christ. We definitely can pray, help, and have love charity for each other. We're commanded to. But, we have to be careful not to let one body part "infest" us. It's dusting our feet off from those attitudes. Not being cohorts and condoning that behavior. We're all sinners, he's warning us not get sucked into that behavior. Don't be at the bar at 2 am looking to hook up. What are the two greatest commandments and relate that to Chap 13.

Not sure what you are asking about. We can have charity and not love evil or condone unrighteousness.

We should not turn a blind eye to sin in the body of Christ but to call it out before it becomes prevalent among us, as the small amount of leaven yeast which can affect the whole dough.

Paul was well knowledgeable in all things jewry ..He was well taught by noted jew and scholar Gamaliel.. He of all the the apostles understood the work Jesus did on the earth, and what he is doing right now in the heavenly Tabernacle. Paul does not contradict himself he was given wisdom and knowledge by Jesus himself..through visions and dreams.He communed with Jesus many times.