1 John Chapter 5 Discussion Page 14

Een van die belangrikse verse in die Bybel wat dikwls wegvertaal word. Die Drie-Eenheid van God...
Translated by Google as:
“One of the most important verses in the Bible dikwls translated. The Trinity of God ...”

It is interesting to see how everyone has different views and clearly we all think differently but personally I believe we should read the Bible and believe exactly what we read and let the word of God speak to us as individuals...trusting Him for guidance and wisdom!

I therefore conclude that the Father, the Son and the Holy Ghost are not three Gods nor three persons but one divine being only. Many religions use this verse as the basis of their Trinity but not a single verse in the Bible says that there are three persons in the Godhead nor there is a single verse in the Bible that says the Father is a person, or the Son is God the Son/second person, or the Holy Spirit is the third person. How can God be person when He was the Creator of persons (humans)?

So you realize that it takes faith in the testimony that God himself gave about his own son even as the Holy Spirit witnesses. Those who do not believe are but liars. are you a liar?

I can agree that this topic can be confusing. Maybe I can bring some clarity to the 3 in 1. The Father is God. We can't deny John 1 ....was the word, the word was with God and the Word was God. He can't separate himself from his word. The Word (God) became flesh (Jesus) and dwelt among us. The bible foretold of Christ's coming through the word. The word of prophecy came to light when the Spirit of God impregnated Mary. Thus, the only begotten of the Father came to be. The latter part of v.7 says these three are one. There is no confusion about that. We have to stick to scripture rather than some man's doctrine. I believe God's word is true. I pray that this helps someone.

I believe the three are separate. For a thousand years we were taught lies, we were taught to believe the Father and the son are the same, but scriptures tell us they aren't. The Messiah, did a lot of praying, so who did He pray to Himself? No! He prayed to the Father, When He say no one knows the time of the end, but my Father...why would He say that if He was the Father? He also says that He now sits at the right hand of the Father, how can that be if He is the Father? We must understand, when the Word says these three are one, it means they are bound together as one. Just like when two people get married, they are joined together as one, but clearly we can see two separate people.

I love all of the Bible but 1John 5 means so much to me. It is such an assurance that God is looking out for me. You cannot read this and not believe in The Father Son and The Holy Ghost all 3 are 1 and through Them we can have peace. Thank you Jesus

ALL I CAN SAY IS WONDERFUL WHEN I HEAR THE SON OF GOD I KNOW DEEP INSIDE THAT'S REALLY TRUE. BECAUSE THE HOLY SPIRIT TELLS ME SO. AND THANKS TO OUR LORD AND KING JESUS FOR HIS BLOOD THAT CLEANSES US AND TAKES AWAY OUR SINS FOREVER.

Interesting how many of the new translations incorrectly omit the last portion of the scripture. It was omitted as an attempt by 'scholars'- relying on corrupted manuscripts- to disprove the trinity.

5:11 And this is the sum of that testimony, that God hath given us a title to, and the real beginning of, eternal life; and that this is purchased by, and treasured up in, his Son, who has all the springs and the fulness of it in himself, to communicate to his body, the church, first in grace and then in glory.

Interesting how many of the translations correctly omit the last portion of the scripture. It was inserted as an attempt by scholars to prove the trinity.

When I read some of the coments it becoms ovious that there are those that would deny the deity of the Lord Jesus Christ. When Westcot and Hort Professors from Cambridge University were given the task of revising the New Testament, they chose the oldest recently found text that was available; 2 identical manuscripts, the Sinai and Alexandra texts found by Catholic scholers and from these they edited the New Testament word of God. They chose to ignore the 1200 letters and manuscripts some older and some more recent, that were used to assemble the King James Bible. The editing was done from 1850 to about 1900, there is no doubt that these Manuscripts were not a true account of the words of the Christian Fathers; and The Ded Sea Scrolles have proven that the 2 Manuscripts were alred at some time. There is evidence that they resemble the Catholic Versions of the Written word.
In John 14v9 - "He that hath seen me hath seen the Father. V 10 "I am in the Father and the Father in Me........but the Father that dwelleth in me he doeth the workes."
In John 15v26 we have the promis of our Lord that he will send "the Conforter from the Father even the spirit of truth, which proceedith from the Father, he shall Testify of Me." Then in John 20v22 "and when he had said this, He breathed on them, and said unto them, Receive ye the Holey Goast." and in another verse he said "I will send my spirit he will abide with you always."
To deny that the Father the Son and the Holy Spirit are one, would lead me to wonder at that persons salvation. And to deny that the Blood of Jesus does not cleans us from our sins, and that he is the only mediator between God the Father and Man, leaves me to questions their exceptance of Jesus as their Saviour.

I believe the verse is true and inspired by the holy spirit like the whole word of god.GOd is triune and father,son,holy ghost are inseperable and are one.In the biginning they were three yet one and the one who is with three pesonalities came down as JESUS.I dont think that Father himself became son and the son became father because there are three yet one!!

I AM STARTING TO GET IT >>>>JESUS`s commandments bring liberty.For instance,by not fornicating(sexual activity outside marriage )i dont have to worry about diseases.JESUS LOVES US VERY MUCH ....

HALLELUJAH!

Verses 7,& 8 are the inspired word of God. II Tim 3:16 all scripture is inspired by God, and is profitable for doctrine, for reproof, for correction, for instruction in righteousness:
We must accept God's word by faith, and whatever is not of faith is sin. If you believe the witness of man, then the witness of God is greater. God has warned us in the book of Revelation not to add or subtract from his word. So believe the Truth, and you will be set free.

The King James Version, in this case, has added words that are not in the original manuscript. Do a Google Search for "Johannine Comma" and see for yourself. Do research, people, before making a defense for something. Also, look at the Codex Sinaiticus - the oldest, most complete manuscript available and compare this verse to the King James Version. Google it. It has a website where you can read it. I am not allowed to insert the web address here. The KJV is just a someone's VERSION of the Bible - hence the name. Get a TRANSLATION of the Scriptures if you want the truth!

To TAKIRI. My regards. One of the best comments I have read here.
Although the Holy Trinity is not occupying my mind I see it as a most powerful force in the universe, but interpretations I hear almost every day... I do not know, almost not worth listening.
There is a part, I am free to say, that is not complete. It is about worshipping Jesus or even Mary. I think you are only partly right.
Anyway, thank you and give more comments like this.
P.S. What is the meaning of the term Christendom's Churches?

A Theological Investigations, reputed Catholic scholar Karl Rahner states that “in
St. John’s First Epistle ὁ θεός [“the God”] so often certainly means the Father that it must be understood of the Father throughout the Epistle.” Also, the French Protestant Bible du Centenaire concedes in a footnote that the Greek allows for a non-Trinitarian translation. Incidentally, it not be forgotten that, probably in the fourth century C.E., an overzealous Trinitarian Latin scribe added to 1  John 5:7 the words “the Father, the Word and the holy spirit; and these three are one.” This addition, known technically as the “Johannine Comma,” was protected by the Vatican until
1927, in spite of the fact that even some Catholic scholars had raised doubts about its authenticity
as early as the sixth century. This dishonest insertion shows the lengths to which Trinitarians will
go in their efforts to prove their doctrine

God’s Name and the Trinity
Something that makes God very real to Jehovah’s Witnesses is their knowledge and regular use of his personal name, Jehovah. ( Psalm 83:18) When a member of one of Christendom’s churches reads in his Bible the anonymous expression “the name of the Lord,” it means little or nothing to him. Similarly, when he prays “hallowed be thy name,” the chances are that he does not know what name he is praying about. Jehovah’s Witnesses know their God, they know his name and, like the psalmist and Jesus himself, they love their heavenly Father’s name.— Psalm 5:11, 12; John 12:28; 17:6, 26.
Since God’s personal name appears literally thousands of times in the original-language Bible, why has it been expunged from many of Christendom’s Bible translations, and why is it never used by the hundreds of millions of Catholic, Orthodox and Protestant “Christians”? Could the dogma of the Trinity have anything to do with this most extraordinary religious fact?
Interestingly, the Catholic Jerusalem Bible renders Deuteronomy 6:4: “Listen, Israel: Yahweh our God is the one Yahweh.” And a footnote, after giving another possible translation, states: “But it is more likely that we have here a declaration of monotheistic faith.” This, then, is the one God of whom Jesus, speaking as a Jew, stated: “We worship what we know.” ( John 4:22) And this Catholic Bible admits that the name of that one God is Yahweh, or Jehovah. Now, according to Trinitarian theology, Yahweh, or Jehovah, is the name of the God of the Hebrew patriarchs and the Jews, the God whom Jesus came to reveal as “the Father,” or “God the Father.” It follows that for Trinitarians the divine name Yahweh, or Jehovah, designates only one of the supposed “Three Persons” of the “Godhead.” The “Second Person” has a name (Jesus), but the “Third Person” is the anonymous “Holy Spirit.” Christendom’s churches cannot logically use a name for God that does not designate the entire “Godhead.” So their members are condemned to worship a mysterious triune God that has no name.Yet, instinctively, many Catholics feel the need to worship someone they can know and name. This, no doubt, explains why many of them worship Jesus or even Mary. This same instinct to worship a God one can name is even reflected in religious architecture. In scores of Catholic chapels, churches and cathedrals in France and other countries, above the high altar or elsewhere there is a gilded, rayed nimbus representing divine glory. In the center is a triangle, symbolizing the Trinity. Paradoxically, inside the triangle is the Tetragrammaton, the four Hebrew consonants of God’s name, Jehovah. But how many Catholics today realize that it is God’s name?
“One Lord, Jesus Christ”
After having stated: “There is actually to us one God the Father, out of whom all things are, and we for him,” the apostle Paul added: “And there is one Lord, Jesus Christ, through whom all things are, and we through him.” (1 Corinthians 8:6) Jehovah’s Witnesses subscribe to that further statement. Jehovah, the Father, is the Source; Jesus, God’s “only-begotten son,” the “firstborn of all creation,” is the means by which the Father accomplishes His will.— John 1:2, 3, 14; Colossians 1:15, 16.

God does not contradict himself. Man contradicts God and it appears in history many times.

In 1 John 5:7
7 For there are three that bear record in heaven, the Father, the Word, and the Holy Ghost: and these three are one.

In "heaven" but there are three
there that bear record.

8 And there are three that bear witness in earth, the Spirit, and the water, and the blood: and these three agree in one.

In earth, there are three that "bear witness".

Does man wish to contradict this witness and record?


Many people only "believe" the Old Testament
and think there are errors in the New Testament.


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Isaiah 29
24 They also that erred in spirit shall come to understanding, and they that murmured shall learn doctrine.
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In Chapter 7 of Isaiah
14 Therefore the Lord himself shall give you a sign; Behold, a virgin shall conceive, and bear a son, and shall call his name Immanuel.

In Isaiah chapter 9
6 For unto us a child is born, unto us a son is given: and the government shall be upon his shoulder: and his name shall be called Wonderful, Counsellor, The mighty God, The everlasting Father, The Prince of Peace.

In Isaiah chapter 45
5 I [am] the LORD, and [there is] none else, [there is] no God beside me: I girded thee, though thou hast not known me:

6 That they may know from the rising of the sun, and from the west, that [there is] none beside me. I [am] the LORD, and [there is] none else.

15 Verily thou [art] a God that hidest thyself, O God of Israel, the Saviour.
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NEW TESTAMENT

In Luke, Chapter 2
11 For unto you is born this day in the city of David a Saviour, which is Christ the Lord.

12 And this [shall be] a sign unto you; Ye shall find the babe wrapped in swaddling clothes, lying in a manger.

13 And suddenly there was with the angel a multitude of the heavenly host praising God, and saying,

14 Glory to God in the highest, and on earth peace, good will toward men.
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ONE LORD, ONE MIGHTY GOD, ONE SAVIOUR, ONE HOLY COUNSELLOR.
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In Isaiah 55, it is told to us that God's ways are higher than our ways and God's thoughts are higher than our thoughts. It is also told to us who God is.

Isaiah 55
8 For my thoughts [are] not your thoughts, neither [are] your ways my ways, saith the LORD.

9 For [as] the heavens are higher than the earth, so are my ways higher than your ways, and my thoughts than your thoughts.
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Isaiah 43
11 I, [even] I, [am] the LORD; and beside me [there is] no saviour.

ONE SAVIOUR

12 I have declared, and have saved, and I have shewed, when [there was] no strange [god] among you: therefore ye [are] my witnesses, saith the LORD, that I [am] God.

13 Yea, before the day [was] I [am] he; and [there is] none that can deliver out of my hand: I will work, and who shall let it?

14 Thus saith the LORD, your redeemer, the Holy One of Israel; For your sake I have sent to Babylon, and have brought down all their nobles, and the Chaldeans, whose cry [is] in the ships.

15 I [am] the LORD, your Holy One, the creator of Israel, your King.
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NEW TESTAMENT

In John chapter 6
45 It is written in the prophets, And they shall be all taught of God. Every man therefore that hath heard, and hath learned of the Father, cometh unto me.

46 Not that any man hath seen the Father, save he which is of God, he hath seen the Father.
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We must get in agreement with God and not the other way around. There is plenty of examples in
the Old Testament of what happens to man when he
believes he knows better than GOD.

With that in mind, John 1 clearly states
in the NEW TESTAMENT.

1 In the beginning was the Word, and the Word was with God, and the Word was God.

2 The same was in the beginning with God.

3 All things were made by him; and without him was not any thing made that was made.

4 In him was life; and the life was the light of men.

Coming back to 1 John chapter 5 we find
5 Who is he that overcometh the world, but he that believeth that Jesus is the Son of God?

7 For there are three that bear record in heaven, the Father, the Word, and the Holy Ghost: and these three are one.

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God's thoughts must be accepted as higher than our thoughts.
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1 John Chapter 5

9 If we receive the witness of men, the witness of God is greater: for this is the witness of God which he hath testified of his Son.
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10 He that believeth on the Son of God hath the witness in himself: he that believeth not God hath made him a liar; because he believeth not the record that God gave of his Son.
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11 And this is the record, that God hath given to us eternal life, and this life is in his Son.

12 He that hath the Son hath life; [and] he that hath not the Son of God hath not life.
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20 And we know that the Son of God is come, and hath given us an understanding, that we may know him that is true, and we are in him that is true, [even] in his Son Jesus Christ. This is the true God, and eternal life.
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The verse in 1 John 5:7 IS true, just like the entire Bible is true. People can't pick and choose parts from the Bible and use the Bible itself to defend or deny other parts of the Bible. People sometimes feel uncomfortable with what the Bible says and try to re-interpret certain verses to justify what they are already believe or are comfortable with. The entire Bible is the word of God.

Just commenting on 1.John:5.7 this verse is false.This was purposely added to support the trinitarian concept of three in one.Here are some bible scriptures that prove that the trinity is a false doctrine.(John:1;1 THE WORD WAS WITH GOD,If Jesus was God how can he be with himself.Also If Jesus was God why dose verse 18 says no man has seen God(1Co.14:33)We know that God is a God of order not confusion.(John.17:1-8 if Jesus is God,then who was he talking to! himself,hardly he is praying to his father in the heavens to look after the apostles and pours his Holy spirit upon them.Other scriptures that should help.(De 6:4;) ( Mal 2:10),(Mr 10:18),(Ro 3:29;30)Jesus first creation,(Re 3;14)( Col 1:15)(Is 44:6)( Php 2:5,6)(Da 4;35)( Php 2:10,11)

when we are born of spirit in side then the Holy spirit will teach and reavel to us all the truth about eternal God. If we argue in our dirty mind about God, it will be foolishness. So lets kneel down and bow before the almighty God and say Lord Iam a dirty sinner, have mercy on me. Please wash me and save me now by the blood of Jesus christ your only son.

Sunny Eapen

IF 1 JOHN 5:7 IS TRUE THEN IT CONTRADICTS 1 John 4:12-No one has ever seen God;, 1 Timothy 1:17,1-Now to the King eternal, immortal, invisible,YAHWEH the only God, be honor and glory for ever and ever.
Amen. Timothy 6:15-16-which God will bring about in his own time, YAHWEH, the blessed and only Ruler, the King of kings and Lord of lords,
16 who alone is immortal and who lives in unapproachable light, whom no one has seen or can see. To him be honor and might forever. Amen..., John 6:46, 1 Corinthians 8:5-6 THE LIST GOES ON AND ON. I DON'T THINK THAT 1 JOHN 5:7 IS TRUE, IT WAS PURPOSELY PUT THERE BY THE ROMAN CATHOLICS WHILE TRANSLATING THE SCRIPTS FROM HEBREW TO GREEK TO SUPPORT THEIR BELIEVE OF "FATHER THE GOD, SON THE GOD AND HOLY GHOST THE GOD THREE IN ONE............

I think that as long as you are born by God and believed He is the saviour and that there is non like him,what ever comes your way will not succed.As long as you rejoicing in Him with faith.

John chapter 5 verse 7 was inserted many years after Jesus's death. Is this true?

This is my favorite verse in the whole bible. Some people don't believe that Jesus, God, and The Holy Spirit are one. But we need to pray that God will give us the courage ( Joshua 1:9) to tell them that they are.

This verse is one of my favorite,it is trinitarian in nature.It is true the THREE ARE ONE! God is 3 and yet 1!

please i want to know those sins that are regarded as the sin unto death

totally disagree with Geoffrey Mogere. Mogere's view is 21st century Sabelliamism. The Father and Son are separate. The Son is not the Father and the Father is not the Son. If they were than all the conversations of Jesus with His Father are meaningless and a hoax.