1 Maccabees Chapter 4 Discussion

You're correct, those particular terms are not found in the Bible; only Son of God or Spirit of God. However, could it be that those terms actually imply a similar meaning?

For example, I point out a car to you which is parked kerbside. I tell you, "That's my car". How do you understand me? In the normal way, you will immediately assume that the car belongs to me. But actually it doesn't belong to me, it belongs to a friend, from whom I have loaned it. So which is correct? In a sense, both are correct: the car is mine because I have the key to it & I drive it - so it could be that I own it or I took loan of it - it's still mine to get inside & drive it.

The point I'm making is that whether Jesus is described as 'the Son of God' or 'God's Son' or 'God the Son', can still have the same meaning only if the Scriptures spoken about Him, warrant it. If we didn't have John 1:1-14, John 20:28, Isaiah 9:6, Titus 2:13, Colossians 2:9, Hebrews 1:1-8, John 10:30, 2 Peter 1:1, & others, given to us, then yes, you would be entirely correct to say that Jesus is just a created Being by God, thus to be called His Son.

So the question is not about the accuracy of the term 'God the Son', but rather what do people do with all the other Scriptures that point to Jesus being both the Son of God & God the Son? I have often asked people to exegete John 1:1-14 to me & they have failed to do so. I did see a Christadelphian article on it, & they say "the Word that became flesh was not the incarnate Son but the incarnate Word". Strange! If the Word became flesh & we know of no other human that became one from the Word of God, then it must apply to Jesus Who is God's Word made flesh & dwelt amongst us. I have no problem with this, but those who oppose this doctrine fail to provide an adequate explanation, rather either avoid such Scriptures or apply another interpretation to them to support their belief. Some might be convinced by this - others, reading the Word, remain unconvinced.

Where in the Scriptures do you find the terms "God the Son" or "God the Holy Ghost/Spirit"? My bible reads, "I am God and there is none other." There is One God and Father, One Lord and Savior, and one Spirit. Only ONE of these is referred to as God in the Scriptures.

This testimony has so blessed my heart! We never know what happens with the seed that we sow. We just pray that the Lord would rain on it and bring in the harvest. To this day I still pray people I prayed with 35 years ago, are still in Jesus.

The Holy Spirit is all over me right now; I will say thank you and will see you tomorrow, blessed Brother.

It was several years later before I fully surrendered to the Lord and was born again a new man, but the beginning was a street preacher. I left a dance party in the summer, too hot too crowded and too... Skateboarded a mile to downtown in a small town when I heard these two preachers speaking out. What caught my attention was one had an accent that I recognized. Starting talking and I asked him where he was from, my original same city across the nation. We dialed in together little by little that we had been next door neighbors, he was the kid brother to my good friend. Well this helped be to believe that God was now talking with me via this street preacher. While he was visiting town he took me to a Calvary Calvary Baptist Church a few times. Before he left town I had decided to accept Jesus the way they do and was received warmly. I loved this man for his part, eventually he moved to my same town but by then I had left the beginning of reaching out as a Christian to know God more. I learned several years later that this street preacher did marry locally but died from cancer in his low 30's. But I remember him now. As my life failed to improve by my lack of grace I finally visited a Mennonite Church where after an evening service I was invited to a home where a visiting relative who was a pastor who was sitting on the floor because all the chairs were taken asked me if I had ever been born again, and I told him my experience at the Calvary Church. He asked me about repentance in that experience which I could not recall. I went to several Church meetings over the course of a few months and my heart became burdened and I repented what was on my heart but somehow I lacked faith and continued on my work trip. After returning I visited the Church on a Wednesday eve on my next truck trip. Heard a testimony on lacking faith. Later that evening at a dock I had a simple prayer to Jesus and immediately had peace by the Holy Spirit in my heart. Thank you street preachers!

Everyone who has Youtube, listen to a song:

"I Saw Him" by Terry Talbot

I cut my little baby Christian teeth, in street evangelism. Three years in the alien capital (Roswell) of the US; 3 years in Tulsa the Christian capital; 3 years in Austin, the witches capital. Very few tv preachers dare to go in there. That's why I teach praying to the Lord of the Harvest so much. Go where He leads you.

There lots of people teaching street evangelizing online. Praise God! A lot of people on youtube teaching on spiritual warfare. Always take your angels along :)

I think depression amongst Christians occurs when their GO YE turns to GO ME on the inside. It fights against the spirit.

Mishael

Actions speak louder than words. Walking the walk as the Bible teaches is the important thing.....and also the hardest thing.... ROM 7:15.

As a baby Christian, music from John Michael Talbot was given to me. He sings Songs, he has written from Psalms ( the older albums).

He has returned to Catholicism. He has kind of been, in and out. His brother, Terry, has a great song, Wake Up America and I Saw Him.

I have listened to some "sermons" by John Michael Talbot, and the theme is all Jesus. I'm not going to "judge" either man on his walk with God. No.

Nor the man who got frustrated with me last night. I forgive his frustration.

All I know to be fact, is that those whom Jesus loves; He will draw unto Himself. To reveal Himself to them. He has chosen them to follow Him. We have to give up some things, generally, to do that. I can only testify that He's worth more than anything we possess or own. Selah.

What I know is that Catholics come in here from time to time, in search of some better understanding of Jesus; the person of their religion. Seeking a relationship with Jesus.

Our friend Chris, that's a great teacher has much knowledge on these matters is on a trip till September. He's much better at answering their questions.

People could sift through the recent history pages of room comments (1-100), at the bottom of this screen, to search for his previous comments to Catholics. Just look for his name.

My testimony is about Jesus, who is known to reach down into the mess of our lives and pull us into a reality that is impossible to deny. He really cares enough to show Himself "to hard cases" like myself. I'm like Paul in a way: killing people with my take on life; until the God of Life knocked me into His reality. Impossible to deny that.

Just came on here. I thought only the Catholic Church talked about the Apocrapha as though it was scripture. Surprised to see it on here. The Catholic Church needs the Apocrapha to support much of its doctrine, why read their stuff.......it was removed from KJV for a reason.

Walking in the Lord Jesus Christ for thirty six years is certainly a blessing of an assurance by peace and a power (to climb the hills) that belong to the Godhead and are shared by those who also know Him in his Kingdom, that he has restored!

Carleton

Thank you, it is true that most are not using scriptures from the Apocrypha to support on this KJV website discussion but some do. (I have not), but those that choose to use verses should only use them for edification and not to be evidence of Bible Doctrines or practice.

Regarding the Waldenses and those who came before and after them are of interests in the fact that they and others have recorded creeds 450+ years ago (separate from the Roman Church) that at least mimic the Apostles Creed and therefore can speak to us today as a plumb line or guidepost on our professions of Bible understanding.

Carleton

What is your objection?

I'm 69 and don't appreciate being yelled at.

Who wrote this? Claim it in your name.

I don't know what you are saying. Most people in here read King James Bible. Me included. The Holy Spirit has never said: to read those books.

Why can't we discuss KJV Bible ?

Hebrews 1:8

But unto the Son he saith, Thy throne, O God, is ever and ever: a sceptre of righteousness is the sceptre of thy kingdom.

Hebrews 1:10

And, Thou, Lord, in the beginning hast laid the foundation of the earth; and the heavens are the works of thine hands:

Carleton

God the Father, God the Son, God the Holy Spirit make three, which several of the chosen verses support as "us".

carleton

"Then follow the books of the Apocrypha, which were not received by the Hebrews;

hence we read them as Jerome says, in the preface to Proverbs, for edification of the people, but not for the purpose of confirming church doctrines.

They are: I Esdras, II Esdras, Tobit, Judith, Wisdom; Ecclesiasticus, or Jesus Sirach; Baruch, with the letter of Jeremiah; the additions to the book of the Three Men in the Fiery Furnace; the History of Susanna; of the Dragon at Babel; the three books of the Maccabees."

:)

Also, in these following scriptures , we clearly see the Godhead ( Acts 17:27-30) speaking to each other.

Genesis 1:26, 3:22, 11:7

1 John 5:7.

John 10:30, I and My Father are one.

Malachi 3:16-17. God listens when we talk together abut Him.

If you persist with trying to confuse people with Triune and Trinity, then you are opposing yourself.

Everyone here has the responsibility to search what we say. Is it scripture??

Quit being lazy and look this stuff up.

Mishael

Hold on to me my Father as l fight for others that the enemy has taken in his grips. Help the ones l take care of. I am strong in the Light of your Love. Protect me as l take one day at a time knowing God is leading me as He did His Son. God is your answer in these days. Go to Him on your knees. Know He will answer your needs no matter what it looks like now. Keep praying. Keep going to His words in His writings. His word is truth. Nothing but truth. He will never forsake you. Never!!!

All the books of the Apocrypha are perfect and very biblical. The enemies took them from the bible because of the truth that were in them. Also the enemy knew that the power of God is always ready to deliver His people always then and now. All Christians should make it a compulsion to read them. They are very uplifting. Glory to God in Christ name amen

First time i read the book of maccsbees i could not believe such exits in d bible. I am moved by d gallant outcome of judas army although thru his promting thru ceaseless prayers to God Judas victory is awesome comparative to d exodus story with joseph as d leader. This book i onserved have more verses than any bible book i ve ever read I am impressed i know thru faith in God victory of d enemies still happen today in our homes,churches,offices etc. The presence of God Christ is still with us christians today Praise GOD.Amen

Everything I have studied in the Apocrypha is 100% biblical and 1 Macabees is so inspiring, I can feel the Spirit Of The LORD as I study, just as with all of His Awesome Word