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15 But sanctify the Lord God in your hearts: and be ready always to give an answer to every man that asketh you a reason of the hope that is in you with meekness and fear:
16 Having a good conscience; that, whereas they speak evil of you, as of evildoers, they may be ashamed that falsely accuse your good conversation in Christ.
GOD bless all as we walk together in the name of our LORD JESUS CHRIST.
Happy New Year everyone! May we all be blessed and a blessing to all who are directed our way by the Spirit of CHRIST.
We all have hope in Jesus Christ. I myself love the Lord, with all of my heart. I share with everyone that I can about the love, compassion, hope, and mercy that Jesus gives us every day. I'm a newly Christian so I'm learning how to share the gospel.
I misspoke and said verse 20 instead of verse 22. I had always seen the idea of preparation and waiting in verse 20 before, but I hadn't see it in verse 22 until our discussion.
For me personally, laying out the parallelism as I have is actually what allowed me to see aspects of Verse 20 as a period of preparation and waiting and also prior to that I myself overlooked Psalm 110:1 and it's importance as a possible source of comfort.
I know you continue to say inverse parallelism is not necessary to understand the verse, and it may not be for people like yourself. But the things I wrote about regarding Psalm 110:1 did not come from anything you wrote about the verse and the importance of that reference never occurred to me prior to laying the verse out as I had. I doubt I would ever have been able to see or express those ideas as clearly or as confidently as I just did without viewing these 4 verses in this way, since I never had before. Additionally, Free's comment suggests that he gained new insights by considering the verse as I had laid it out that he had previously not considered. So from my perspective it has not been unprofitable to view the verses in this light, even if it is not necessary for others like you to do so.
Still I have to also consider that without our discussions on this verse I might have missed the Psalm 110:1 connection as well, since that also inspired me to trace out ideas that were only a vaguely expressed intuition about that aspect of the verse before. So iron continues to sharpen iron, and brothers coming at a verse from different perspectives can lead to a greater shared understanding through a respectful discussion, even if both continue to differ in their approaches. That is comforting to me as well.
So I have no problem with you continuing to say chiasmus is unnecessary for these verses, since we are agreed that Peter's teaching on baptism are a great source of comfort for suffering Christians, both in its internal comfort with regard to their consciences and the assurance it brings that the external forces opposing them can be endured with a certain hope for the future that they will prevail.
Thanks Rich. I fully concur with your thoughts as you took in 1 Peter 3:22 as well. I avoided considering that verse in the light of what was being discussed, inverted parallelism & its need in those particular verses 20 & 21.
Yes indeed, believers then, as now, can take great comfort that even though identification with Christ in baptism & their Christian witness brought them before wicked accusing minds & actions, their real joy & confidence lay in the completed Work of Jesus seated now at the Father's right Hand, under Whose authority all men & spirits are subject. Truly, "weeping may endure for a night, but joy cometh in the morning".
That Christ's entry into heaven and sitting at the right hand of God is a time of preparation I take from John 14:1-4 and Psalm 110:1. The fact that Psalm 110:1 has escaped your attention in all that you have said tells me you are missing something critical to Peter's encouragement. In Matthew 22:41-46 Jesus put an end to the Pharises testing questions with this verse and his question to them. I think at minimum the Psalm 110 reference is plainly in Peter's view and is a definite source of comfort to suffering Christians, whose enemies will ultimately be placed under Christ's feet as His footstool.
In my view these two passages I just mentioned relate to both God's patience and Christ's patience in sitting at the Father's right hand. Until the Father has completed His preparations, the final judgement of our age will not occur. But suffering Christians are awaiting that with Christ. To begin and end with the comfort of baptism is not all there is to cling to for those enduring true continuing and unrelenting injustice and suffering. The ultimate triumph of Christ's power over His enemies is also in view here. The spiritual realm being placed in subjection first signifies more is to come.
I take comfort in that, particularly for brothers in countries that have real persecution of Christians. They know the promise of baptism, but they also look forward to and will know vindication when the Father has brought all things in subjection to Christ in His full triumph over all of His enemies.
The salvation Noah experienced was the actual sweeping away of the wicked through the flood. Baptism, like in the case of Noah or the Israelites crossing the Red Sea, promises triumph over and final separation from the wicked and our enemies that we can be assured will actually occur through Psalm 110:1 (and the rest of that Psalm).
I looked at your use of chiasmus to expound this passage ( 1 Peter 3:19-21), & rather than question its use at this point, I'd rather just re-look that the whole passage & its primary subject. You shared in you previous comment, "He is addressing suffering Christians and wants to encourage them to patiently endure that suffering by likening their experience to what God did with Noah, but shows that it happens in an inverted order."
I accept that Suffering is clearly one of Peter's main subjects, as we read in earlier chapters, & in chapter 3, I see that 'the suffering Christian' topic restarts at verse 13, "And who is he that will harm you, if ye be followers of that which is good?"
Without considering inverted parallelism, I note that in this passage, Peter begins to encourage believers to be joyful, if their suffering comes because of them being righteous; that this is God's Will that they suffer for doing well rather than for doing wrong. And then Peter uses Jesus as his example of righteous suffering, though being killed in the flesh, He was made alive by the Spirit. So, if Jesus too had to suffer at the hands of wicked men for doing no wrong, they should not think that their sufferings should be unexpected. ( 2 Timothy 3:12).
And then from vv 19-21, I regard as a parenthetical narrative that Peter builds upon from verse 18, "but quickened by the Spirit"; that it was by this Spirit that Jesus preached to those held captive. Peter then deals with who those captives were, God's Patience, the righteous taken in the Ark, & the water that bore them to safety being the same medium in baptism that gives the believer a peace & satisfaction in conscience in salvation's work. With Noah, he didn't know where the Ark would end up, but he knew that his God Who brought them all thus far, would not fail them in the end. And baptism should bring the same mind: one of peace in God's Salvation & confidence that all is well now & to the end.
I think in fairness I should at least discuss the other two interpretations that say the preaching did not take place during the time between Christ's death on the cross and the Resurrection.
They are the generally called the preincarate theory and the post-ascension theory.
I will deal with the post-ascension theory first, since it is similar to the theories I have presented in that it still takes place in the spiritual realm. Primarily it differs by denying Jesus ever descended into hell and that prior to his resurrection He placed His Spirit in His Father's hand and was with the thief in paradise. Then they take 1 Peter 3:18 where Christ is described as "being put to death in the flesh, but quickened by the Spirit:" as being the resurrection itself. Then I believe they see the "angels and authorities and powers being made subject unto him." in 1 Peter 3:22 that followed Christ's ascension into heaven as describing the same event as 1 Peter 3:19.
I believe Peter is using a chiastic (inverse parallel) structure between a type in 1 Peter 3:19-20 and an antitype in 1 Peter 3:21-22. Having examined this structure in my own separate post, the post-ascension theory has gained substantially more merit in my view and I am giving it more consideration myself.
The preincarate theory also denies that Christ was ever in hell and proposes that the preaching Christ did in the Spirit actually took place during the time Noah was building the Arc and was definitely to human beings, not angels or fallen angels. They normally view Noah's preaching as being done by the Spirit of Christ rather than appealing to a preincarnate appearance of Christ.
This theory goes to great lengths to make the language in 1 Peter 3:19 have the "unto the spirit in prison" there only because that is their current condition, but that he really means to say "By which He went and preached to" men "which sometime were disobedient". It sounds very strained to me and has no clear parallel in the antitype.
Now that I have written out the structure and had time to think about it more fully, I think I should eliminate the santification parallel. The portion in parenthesis in that step for the case of believers today is explanatory for what the Apostle means by baptism saving us and does calirfy that it isn't the normal outward effects of water upon our bodies that saves, but an inward spiritual cleansing of the conscience by the imputed righteousness of Christ. While that leads to santification, it doesn't seem like he has that in view here, and my division was incorrect.
Rather than throwing out everything, because I have admitted my own fallability, I want to lay it out as three parallels.
The like figure whereunto
(Salvation of a chosen few from a wicked generation by water)
wherein few, that is, eight souls were saved by water.
even baptism doth also now save us (not the putting away of the filth of the flesh, but the answer of a good conscience toward God,)
(God's patience during preparations made by a chosen one)
when once the longsuffering of God waited in the days of Noah, while the ark was a preparing,
by the resurrection of Jesus Christ: Who is gone into heaven, and is on the right hand of God;
(Vindication)
By which also he went and preached unto the spirits in prison; Which sometime were disobedient,
angels and authorities and powers being made subject unto him.
Additionally, Peter is using a figure and all figures (or types and antitypes) are limited. So I believe he is intentionally limiting himself to parallels he sees between the type and the antitype, rather than expounding his full views on all that Christ has done for us. Turning this passage into the one and only proof text for any theory of baptism or salvation that is not supported elsewhere in the New Testament or that nullifies other passages that clearly were written to deal with these topics more fully should not be taken as his intention. That goes for all typology.
Thank you for your comment. There is no doubt we should all take encouragement from the parallel Peter draws between the salvation of Noah and his household through the flood and the salvation we as believers each receive through water baptism.
I would only say that in this context Peter is not focused primarily on the baptism of a single individual, but is viewing baptism as a distinguishing characteristic of the household of believers being saved by this critical component of the great commission. All of the other parallels, in my view, call us to look beyond just ourselves and our individual experiences of santification, God's patience, and vindication. These are things all of those who make up God's true church must share in and continue until the great commission is fulfilled. That is why the great commission and Christ's presence with those that carry it out is promised to last even until the end of the age.
I believe Peter's message is that any sufferings we experience and endure that are in service of Christ and that God permits are carried out in service of the great commission as well. When we are able to see that the sufferings you, I or any of our brothers and sisters endure in this manner continue to unite us to Christ and God's larger plan for this age, the Holy Spirit can use that as a real source of encouragement.
Hi and thanks for the nice words. there was nothing stopping me from reading and understanding what you wrote. It was a good angle to put it that way. Never thought of that before. But water baptism has been in a light of necessity for me all my life and is important. To be on the safe side. :)
Good luck and be blessed with word from Philemon 1:1-7
I believe that 1 Peter 3:19-22 is a chiasm (inverted parallelism) which is common in the Psalms and Hebrew expressions that are intended to be memorized / memorable. He is addressing suffering Christians and wants to encourage them to patiently endure that suffering by likening their experience to what God did with Noah, but shows that it happens in an inverted order. Here is how I see it laid out.
The like figure whereunto
(Salvation of a chosen few from a wicked generation by water)
wherein few, that is, eight souls were saved by water.
even baptism doth also now save us
(Preparation/Santification)
while the ark was a preparing,
(not the putting away of the filth of the flesh, but the answer of a good conscience toward God,) by the resurrection
(God's patience based on a chosen one)
when once the longsuffering of God waited in the days of Noah,
of Jesus Christ: Who is gone into heaven, and is on the right hand of God;
(Vindication)
By which also he went and preached unto the spirits in prison; Which sometime were disobedient,
angels and authorities and powers being made subject unto him.
I believe Peter's audience needed to endure through days that he wanted to liken to the days of Noah for encouragement. Baptism is a source of encouragement and the easiest parallel to draw from the passage, but I believe he intended his audience to draw more encouragement than just that. If you don't agree and think I'm pushing this text beyond what it is meant to say, or if you think I've grouped things illogically, lets discuss it.
First of all it is extremely important to see how 1 Peter 3:19-20 fits with the overall themes of the first 3 chapters of 1 Peter and especially the theme Peter is giving instructions about just prior to giving his audience this revelatory information to understand how this information was intended to benefit them. We should be cautious in drawing interpretations from these two verses that make them sources of pure speculation in support of doctrines that have nothing to do with Peter's reason for including them with the instruction and exhortation he is giving his audience.
1 Pet 1:6-7 makes it clear these Christians are in a season of being tempted and tried by persecution. The first three chapters give numerous encouragements and exhortations to perseverance in both character and faith in Christ. They connect the rejection these believers were facing with the rejection Christ endured and their need to show the same purity of character and patience Christ showed in the face of false accusations. They are warned against practicing the deeds they are being accused of or that their accusers do, since suffering for that is not blessed but rather is deserved, but suffering as Christ did is blessed and will be vindicated.
The vindication of the sufferings of Christ and those who believe in Him and the long-suffering patience of God in withholding His judgement on the deserving disobedient until the appointed time are all in view in 1 Pet 3:19-20. All of it is like the time of Noah, when wicked men brought on God's judgement, but Noah had to maintain both His character and his faith in preparing the Arc while they mocked and spoke evil of Him, prompted by demonic activity, until Noah's salvation was ready and God sent the flood.
The spirits imprisoned as a result of the flood are either the disobedient men or demons of Noah's time. I'm fine either way. Christ, quickened by the Spirit, preached to them (God's full vindication) after He died and before He rose.
Being sprinkled with the blood of Christ, while being a stone in the building of Christ s nature.
We are many stones within the building of Christ's church.
This comparison of the nature of a believer, Peter uses to describe how we should see and feel in the faith that will become the witness unto the world! Stones ,yet lively stones!
Remember when you ask Mother or Dad about a thing, you may experience their stony response. This is the evidence of what a stone nature looks like. Or the question concerning, abortion, same sex marriage, or even trans-sexual condition one says requires surgery! Your reaction should be as a stone, No reaction!
How we respond to the condition around us will require a stone like response, yet sanctified and justified with the blood of Christ! We as stones have been sprinkled with His blood through Baptism, a baptism that is reserved in heaven through the reminder of Holy Communion given unto those who trust and believe the Gospel! Repent and be baptized.
and if you don't have a sword, sell your cloak and buy one."
Again, whether metaphorical or literal, things were becoming dangerous. We can at least assume that Jesus does not call us to total pacifism at all costs. In a moment they would point out that they had two swords already. This tells us that a) Jesus had not prohibited them from carrying swords up to then, and b) When Jesus said, "That's enough" ( Luke 22:38) it shows that he is not expecting them to go to literal war against the Romans or the Jews, but could be an exasperated statement, although it doesn't always get interpreted and read that way.
Mishael: I think Jesus was saying, you don't have enough swords to fight everybody off as he went forward to fulfill his Ministry on earth.
Some could say to us, I'm dying. We say and do things to not allow that to happen: exploratory medicine, best surgeon, best hospital etc.
We all, do not think of death the same ways. We should pray and ask, if we can do that.
First Peter 3:15; "be ready also to give an answer" = Here, the word "answer" translates from the Greek noun root (transliterated "apologia"; pronounced "apo-log-EE-ah"), and from which, derives the English noun "apology."
This term originates the Christian Theological field of "Apologetics" of which a person, described as an "apologetic", defends True, Biblical Christianity with truths and proofs, which usually involve definitive and convincing arguments used to refute contradictions against it.
Compare the word "answer" to its synonymous expression "earnestly contend for the Faith which was once delivered unto the saints" (Jude v.3).
When using the same definition above, the Greek root "apologia" also translates into either "answer" or "defense" in the following references:
in verse 21 the saved by water comment does refer to the water of the flood or natural water its referring to the grace that flows from Christ himself, in reality the floodwater didn't saved no one, actually it was the ark in the natural sence that saved.
1 Peter 3:13-22 is a passage essentially on a believer's suffering at the hands of wicked men (suffering for righteousness' sake, receiving false accusations, suffering for doing well: vv 14,16,17). Likewise, Christ too suffered at the hands of wicked men, died for our sins & brought to life by God's Spirit (v18).
v19: by this self-same Spirit, Christ went & preached to the spirits in prison. The reason for Peter to bring up this matter is as a lead-in to the next verses on water baptism. So, as Jesus preached to the spirits bound from the days of Noah, & as Noah was saved on the Ark on water, so our baptism in water (as the saving water under the Ark) also now also saves us (not by washing away sins but of an answer of a good conscience towards God).
I realize that we generally connect Jesus' preaching to the spirits in prison as an event after his death & resurrection. But I also see the emphasis on the preaching to them at maybe some other point in time & not necessarily at the resurrection. I can't be certain though. Others may offer their opinion.
Where were these spirits? The Greek word indicates that it was a prison & those that are under guard - some see this as Hell, Hades, Sheol, but the Greek doesn't indicate that.
Who were these spirits? They were the spirits of all those who rejected God's warning about the coming flood & they continued on in their wicked living & even mocking Noah during the Ark's construction.
And what was the message? We're not told, but it could have been an announcement of the reason for their chained up plight & that eight souls were found righteous from among them, whom God had chosen to save. Or, if after the Resurrection, that those spirits & all other spirits bound there, received the announcement that Christ's death & resurrection has brought victory over sin & death. We're just not told any more, but as I said, I think this is just a side matter: the real issue in this portion of Scripture is about baptism.
Jesus, commaned his follower's to be baptized "In The Name of the Father and of the Son and of the Holy Ghost," Jesus knew that they understood who the Name of the Father was ;
John 5:43 KJV
43 I am come in my Father's name, and ye receive me not: if another shall come in his own name, him ye will receive. Also read;
John 14:8-10 KJV
8 Philip saith unto him, Lord, show us the Father, and it sufficeth us.
9 Jesus saith unto him, Have I been so long time with you, and yet hast thou not known me, Philip? he that hath seen me hath seen the Father; and how sayest thou then, Show us the Father?
10 Believest thou not that I am in the Father, and the Father in me? the words that I speak unto you I speak not of myself: but the Father that dwelleth in me, he doeth the works.
Then Jesus also commanded them to be baptized in The Name of the Son; This should be evident without controversy we all know who the name of the Son is. However, We find in
John 14:6-7:
6 Jesus saith unto him, I am the way, the truth, and the life: no man cometh unto the Father, but by me.
7 If ye had known me, ye should have known my Father also: and from henceforth ye know him, and have seen him.
Acts 4:12 KJV
12 Neither is there salvation in any other: for there is none other name under heaven given among men, whereby we must be saved. The most powerful name under heaven is JESUS.
Finally, we come to the Name of the Holy Ghost, that Name is The same name of both the Father's and The Son's is Jesus. As we read about the Comforter in John 14: 16-18
16 And I will pray the Father, and he shall give you another Comforter, that he may abide with you for ever;
26 But the Comforter, which is the Holy Ghost, whom the Father will send in my name, he shall teach you all things, and bring all things to your remembrance, whatsoever I have said unto you.
There were children of God from Adam to christ's death who were in abraham's bossom.
Had christ not died and resurrected, they would remain there in limbo forever.
Abraham's bossom was next door to hell in the heart of the earth, with a huge space, (chasm) separating them.
I believe jesus stood or floated between them and preached the gospel while both sides listened.
The people in hell I don't believe repented. The bible says in revelation that they still cursed God...
Those in abraham's bossom were set free and now are with the Lord in heaven.
Anyone killed for the word of God and for jesus christ, are the souls under the altar in heaven. Rev.
The dead in christ resurrect just before the rapture. And people say the rapture happens before the tribulation.
If that were true, the resurrection of dead in christ would happen first, followed by a rapture.
But that's impossible. because a resurrection happens before the rapture.
When does the bible tell us that the first resurrection happens???
Revelation 20:1-6 says the first resurrection is after the tribulation after the beheadings.
So if nobody is resurrected until after the tribulation, how can a resurrection and rapture happen before the tribulation?? It cant!!
Therefore After the tribulation, Jesus appears in the clouds and the dead in christ rise. Everyone from Adam all the way to the believers from the tribulation.
Then those who are alive and remained from the tribulation, will be caught up and changed together with those who resurrected.
They all meet jesus in air and float to mount of olives. The tribes mourn because they see Jesus descending from the air with ten thousands of his saints. Then the thrones are set up and we rule and reign with Christ for a thousand years.
Hebrews 1:8 says that only jesus is called a son of God. So the Angel's are not sons.
I understand that job calls someone sons of God but its not fallen Angel's.
Born of water means natural birth Born again means born of the Spirit, that water can NEVER offer salvation the true baptism is the Holy Spirit. John the Baptist showed what he was doing was a shadow of what Christ would do when he said "i indeed baptize you with water, but when he comes "Jesus" he will baptize you with the Holy Ghost and fire" .....no longer water the Bible plainly says what is flesh is flesh and what is spirit is spirit. Jesus said go into all the land teaching and baptizing them in the name of the Father and of the Son and of the Holy Ghost. if you think any work can save you and yes baptism of water is a work Bible says not of works less any should boast
in a word YES Jesus went to Abraham's bosom recorded in Luke 16. Before Jesus all the old testament saints went there. On the other side were the wicked who rejected the Lord.
Matthew 12:40 For as Jonas was three days and three nights in the whale's belly; so shall the Son of man be three days and three nights in the heart of the earth. what was Jesus doing there? preaching the gospel
1 Peter Chapter 3: 18 For Christ also hath once suffered for sins, the just for the unjust, that he might bring us to God, being put to death in the flesh, but quickened by the Spirit:
19 By which also he went and preached unto the spirits in prison;
fallen angels have no offer of salvation Hebrews 2:16
16 Having a good conscience; that, whereas they speak evil of you, as of evildoers, they may be ashamed that falsely accuse your good conversation in Christ.
GOD bless all as we walk together in the name of our LORD JESUS CHRIST.
Happy New Year everyone! May we all be blessed and a blessing to all who are directed our way by the Spirit of CHRIST.
December 29, 2023
I know you continue to say inverse parallelism is not necessary to understand the verse, and it may not be for people like yourself. But the things I wrote about regarding Psalm 110:1 did not come from anything you wrote about the verse and the importance of that reference never occurred to me prior to laying the verse out as I had. I doubt I would ever have been able to see or express those ideas as clearly or as confidently as I just did without viewing these 4 verses in this way, since I never had before. Additionally, Free's comment suggests that he gained new insights by considering the verse as I had laid it out that he had previously not considered. So from my perspective it has not been unprofitable to view the verses in this light, even if it is not necessary for others like you to do so.
Still I have to also consider that without our discussions on this verse I might have missed the Psalm 110:1 connection as well, since that also inspired me to trace out ideas that were only a vaguely expressed intuition about that aspect of the verse before. So iron continues to sharpen iron, and brothers coming at a verse from different perspectives can lead to a greater shared understanding through a respectful discussion, even if both continue to differ in their approaches. That is comforting to me as well.
So I have no problem with you continuing to say chiasmus is unnecessary for these verses, since we are agreed that Peter's teaching on baptism are a great source of comfort for suffering Christians, both in its internal comfort with regard to their consciences and the assurance it brings that the external forces opposing them can be endured with a certain hope for the future that they will prevail.
Yes indeed, believers then, as now, can take great comfort that even though identification with Christ in baptism & their Christian witness brought them before wicked accusing minds & actions, their real joy & confidence lay in the completed Work of Jesus seated now at the Father's right Hand, under Whose authority all men & spirits are subject. Truly, "weeping may endure for a night, but joy cometh in the morning".
In my view these two passages I just mentioned relate to both God's patience and Christ's patience in sitting at the Father's right hand. Until the Father has completed His preparations, the final judgement of our age will not occur. But suffering Christians are awaiting that with Christ. To begin and end with the comfort of baptism is not all there is to cling to for those enduring true continuing and unrelenting injustice and suffering. The ultimate triumph of Christ's power over His enemies is also in view here. The spiritual realm being placed in subjection first signifies more is to come.
I take comfort in that, particularly for brothers in countries that have real persecution of Christians. They know the promise of baptism, but they also look forward to and will know vindication when the Father has brought all things in subjection to Christ in His full triumph over all of His enemies.
The salvation Noah experienced was the actual sweeping away of the wicked through the flood. Baptism, like in the case of Noah or the Israelites crossing the Red Sea, promises triumph over and final separation from the wicked and our enemies that we can be assured will actually occur through Psalm 110:1 (and the rest of that Psalm).
I accept that Suffering is clearly one of Peter's main subjects, as we read in earlier chapters, & in chapter 3, I see that 'the suffering Christian' topic restarts at verse 13, "And who is he that will harm you, if ye be followers of that which is good?"
Without considering inverted parallelism, I note that in this passage, Peter begins to encourage believers to be joyful, if their suffering comes because of them being righteous; that this is God's Will that they suffer for doing well rather than for doing wrong. And then Peter uses Jesus as his example of righteous suffering, though being killed in the flesh, He was made alive by the Spirit. So, if Jesus too had to suffer at the hands of wicked men for doing no wrong, they should not think that their sufferings should be unexpected. ( 2 Timothy 3:12).
And then from vv 19-21, I regard as a parenthetical narrative that Peter builds upon from verse 18, "but quickened by the Spirit"; that it was by this Spirit that Jesus preached to those held captive. Peter then deals with who those captives were, God's Patience, the righteous taken in the Ark, & the water that bore them to safety being the same medium in baptism that gives the believer a peace & satisfaction in conscience in salvation's work. With Noah, he didn't know where the Ark would end up, but he knew that his God Who brought them all thus far, would not fail them in the end. And baptism should bring the same mind: one of peace in God's Salvation & confidence that all is well now & to the end.
I can't sense the need for chiasmus.
They are the generally called the preincarate theory and the post-ascension theory.
I will deal with the post-ascension theory first, since it is similar to the theories I have presented in that it still takes place in the spiritual realm. Primarily it differs by denying Jesus ever descended into hell and that prior to his resurrection He placed His Spirit in His Father's hand and was with the thief in paradise. Then they take 1 Peter 3:18 where Christ is described as "being put to death in the flesh, but quickened by the Spirit:" as being the resurrection itself. Then I believe they see the "angels and authorities and powers being made subject unto him." in 1 Peter 3:22 that followed Christ's ascension into heaven as describing the same event as 1 Peter 3:19.
I believe Peter is using a chiastic (inverse parallel) structure between a type in 1 Peter 3:19-20 and an antitype in 1 Peter 3:21-22. Having examined this structure in my own separate post, the post-ascension theory has gained substantially more merit in my view and I am giving it more consideration myself.
The preincarate theory also denies that Christ was ever in hell and proposes that the preaching Christ did in the Spirit actually took place during the time Noah was building the Arc and was definitely to human beings, not angels or fallen angels. They normally view Noah's preaching as being done by the Spirit of Christ rather than appealing to a preincarnate appearance of Christ.
This theory goes to great lengths to make the language in 1 Peter 3:19 have the "unto the spirit in prison" there only because that is their current condition, but that he really means to say "By which He went and preached to" men "which sometime were disobedient". It sounds very strained to me and has no clear parallel in the antitype.
Rather than throwing out everything, because I have admitted my own fallability, I want to lay it out as three parallels.
The like figure whereunto
(Salvation of a chosen few from a wicked generation by water)
wherein few, that is, eight souls were saved by water.
even baptism doth also now save us (not the putting away of the filth of the flesh, but the answer of a good conscience toward God,)
(God's patience during preparations made by a chosen one)
when once the longsuffering of God waited in the days of Noah, while the ark was a preparing,
by the resurrection of Jesus Christ: Who is gone into heaven, and is on the right hand of God;
(Vindication)
By which also he went and preached unto the spirits in prison; Which sometime were disobedient,
angels and authorities and powers being made subject unto him.
Additionally, Peter is using a figure and all figures (or types and antitypes) are limited. So I believe he is intentionally limiting himself to parallels he sees between the type and the antitype, rather than expounding his full views on all that Christ has done for us. Turning this passage into the one and only proof text for any theory of baptism or salvation that is not supported elsewhere in the New Testament or that nullifies other passages that clearly were written to deal with these topics more fully should not be taken as his intention. That goes for all typology.
I would only say that in this context Peter is not focused primarily on the baptism of a single individual, but is viewing baptism as a distinguishing characteristic of the household of believers being saved by this critical component of the great commission. All of the other parallels, in my view, call us to look beyond just ourselves and our individual experiences of santification, God's patience, and vindication. These are things all of those who make up God's true church must share in and continue until the great commission is fulfilled. That is why the great commission and Christ's presence with those that carry it out is promised to last even until the end of the age.
I believe Peter's message is that any sufferings we experience and endure that are in service of Christ and that God permits are carried out in service of the great commission as well. When we are able to see that the sufferings you, I or any of our brothers and sisters endure in this manner continue to unite us to Christ and God's larger plan for this age, the Holy Spirit can use that as a real source of encouragement.
Good luck and be blessed with word from Philemon 1:1-7
I believe that 1 Peter 3:19-22 is a chiasm (inverted parallelism) which is common in the Psalms and Hebrew expressions that are intended to be memorized / memorable. He is addressing suffering Christians and wants to encourage them to patiently endure that suffering by likening their experience to what God did with Noah, but shows that it happens in an inverted order. Here is how I see it laid out.
The like figure whereunto
(Salvation of a chosen few from a wicked generation by water)
wherein few, that is, eight souls were saved by water.
even baptism doth also now save us
(Preparation/Santification)
while the ark was a preparing,
(not the putting away of the filth of the flesh, but the answer of a good conscience toward God,) by the resurrection
(God's patience based on a chosen one)
when once the longsuffering of God waited in the days of Noah,
of Jesus Christ: Who is gone into heaven, and is on the right hand of God;
(Vindication)
By which also he went and preached unto the spirits in prison; Which sometime were disobedient,
angels and authorities and powers being made subject unto him.
I believe Peter's audience needed to endure through days that he wanted to liken to the days of Noah for encouragement. Baptism is a source of encouragement and the easiest parallel to draw from the passage, but I believe he intended his audience to draw more encouragement than just that. If you don't agree and think I'm pushing this text beyond what it is meant to say, or if you think I've grouped things illogically, lets discuss it.
1 Pet 1:6-7 makes it clear these Christians are in a season of being tempted and tried by persecution. The first three chapters give numerous encouragements and exhortations to perseverance in both character and faith in Christ. They connect the rejection these believers were facing with the rejection Christ endured and their need to show the same purity of character and patience Christ showed in the face of false accusations. They are warned against practicing the deeds they are being accused of or that their accusers do, since suffering for that is not blessed but rather is deserved, but suffering as Christ did is blessed and will be vindicated.
The vindication of the sufferings of Christ and those who believe in Him and the long-suffering patience of God in withholding His judgement on the deserving disobedient until the appointed time are all in view in 1 Pet 3:19-20. All of it is like the time of Noah, when wicked men brought on God's judgement, but Noah had to maintain both His character and his faith in preparing the Arc while they mocked and spoke evil of Him, prompted by demonic activity, until Noah's salvation was ready and God sent the flood.
The spirits imprisoned as a result of the flood are either the disobedient men or demons of Noah's time. I'm fine either way. Christ, quickened by the Spirit, preached to them (God's full vindication) after He died and before He rose.
We are many stones within the building of Christ's church.
This comparison of the nature of a believer, Peter uses to describe how we should see and feel in the faith that will become the witness unto the world! Stones ,yet lively stones!
Remember when you ask Mother or Dad about a thing, you may experience their stony response. This is the evidence of what a stone nature looks like. Or the question concerning, abortion, same sex marriage, or even trans-sexual condition one says requires surgery! Your reaction should be as a stone, No reaction!
How we respond to the condition around us will require a stone like response, yet sanctified and justified with the blood of Christ! We as stones have been sprinkled with His blood through Baptism, a baptism that is reserved in heaven through the reminder of Holy Communion given unto those who trust and believe the Gospel! Repent and be baptized.
Again, whether metaphorical or literal, things were becoming dangerous. We can at least assume that Jesus does not call us to total pacifism at all costs. In a moment they would point out that they had two swords already. This tells us that a) Jesus had not prohibited them from carrying swords up to then, and b) When Jesus said, "That's enough" ( Luke 22:38) it shows that he is not expecting them to go to literal war against the Romans or the Jews, but could be an exasperated statement, although it doesn't always get interpreted and read that way.
Mishael: I think Jesus was saying, you don't have enough swords to fight everybody off as he went forward to fulfill his Ministry on earth.
Some could say to us, I'm dying. We say and do things to not allow that to happen: exploratory medicine, best surgeon, best hospital etc.
We all, do not think of death the same ways. We should pray and ask, if we can do that.
This term originates the Christian Theological field of "Apologetics" of which a person, described as an "apologetic", defends True, Biblical Christianity with truths and proofs, which usually involve definitive and convincing arguments used to refute contradictions against it.
Compare the word "answer" to its synonymous expression "earnestly contend for the Faith which was once delivered unto the saints" (Jude v.3).
When using the same definition above, the Greek root "apologia" also translates into either "answer" or "defense" in the following references:
Luke 12:11-12;
Luke 21:14-15;
Acts 22:1ff;
Acts 24:10ff;
Acts 25:8 & 16;
Acts 26:1-2ff;
Philippians 7 & 17;
Second Timothy 4:15-16.
v19: by this self-same Spirit, Christ went & preached to the spirits in prison. The reason for Peter to bring up this matter is as a lead-in to the next verses on water baptism. So, as Jesus preached to the spirits bound from the days of Noah, & as Noah was saved on the Ark on water, so our baptism in water (as the saving water under the Ark) also now also saves us (not by washing away sins but of an answer of a good conscience towards God).
I realize that we generally connect Jesus' preaching to the spirits in prison as an event after his death & resurrection. But I also see the emphasis on the preaching to them at maybe some other point in time & not necessarily at the resurrection. I can't be certain though. Others may offer their opinion.
Where were these spirits? The Greek word indicates that it was a prison & those that are under guard - some see this as Hell, Hades, Sheol, but the Greek doesn't indicate that.
Who were these spirits? They were the spirits of all those who rejected God's warning about the coming flood & they continued on in their wicked living & even mocking Noah during the Ark's construction.
And what was the message? We're not told, but it could have been an announcement of the reason for their chained up plight & that eight souls were found righteous from among them, whom God had chosen to save. Or, if after the Resurrection, that those spirits & all other spirits bound there, received the announcement that Christ's death & resurrection has brought victory over sin & death. We're just not told any more, but as I said, I think this is just a side matter: the real issue in this portion of Scripture is about baptism.
John 5:43 KJV
43 I am come in my Father's name, and ye receive me not: if another shall come in his own name, him ye will receive. Also read;
John 14:8-10 KJV
8 Philip saith unto him, Lord, show us the Father, and it sufficeth us.
9 Jesus saith unto him, Have I been so long time with you, and yet hast thou not known me, Philip? he that hath seen me hath seen the Father; and how sayest thou then, Show us the Father?
10 Believest thou not that I am in the Father, and the Father in me? the words that I speak unto you I speak not of myself: but the Father that dwelleth in me, he doeth the works.
Then Jesus also commanded them to be baptized in The Name of the Son; This should be evident without controversy we all know who the name of the Son is. However, We find in
John 14:6-7:
6 Jesus saith unto him, I am the way, the truth, and the life: no man cometh unto the Father, but by me.
7 If ye had known me, ye should have known my Father also: and from henceforth ye know him, and have seen him.
Acts 4:12 KJV
12 Neither is there salvation in any other: for there is none other name under heaven given among men, whereby we must be saved. The most powerful name under heaven is JESUS.
Finally, we come to the Name of the Holy Ghost, that Name is The same name of both the Father's and The Son's is Jesus. As we read about the Comforter in John 14: 16-18
16 And I will pray the Father, and he shall give you another Comforter, that he may abide with you for ever;
26 But the Comforter, which is the Holy Ghost, whom the Father will send in my name, he shall teach you all things, and bring all things to your remembrance, whatsoever I have said unto you.
Had christ not died and resurrected, they would remain there in limbo forever.
Abraham's bossom was next door to hell in the heart of the earth, with a huge space, (chasm) separating them.
I believe jesus stood or floated between them and preached the gospel while both sides listened.
The people in hell I don't believe repented. The bible says in revelation that they still cursed God...
Those in abraham's bossom were set free and now are with the Lord in heaven.
Anyone killed for the word of God and for jesus christ, are the souls under the altar in heaven. Rev.
The dead in christ resurrect just before the rapture. And people say the rapture happens before the tribulation.
If that were true, the resurrection of dead in christ would happen first, followed by a rapture.
But that's impossible. because a resurrection happens before the rapture.
When does the bible tell us that the first resurrection happens???
Revelation 20:1-6 says the first resurrection is after the tribulation after the beheadings.
So if nobody is resurrected until after the tribulation, how can a resurrection and rapture happen before the tribulation?? It cant!!
Therefore After the tribulation, Jesus appears in the clouds and the dead in christ rise. Everyone from Adam all the way to the believers from the tribulation.
Then those who are alive and remained from the tribulation, will be caught up and changed together with those who resurrected.
They all meet jesus in air and float to mount of olives. The tribes mourn because they see Jesus descending from the air with ten thousands of his saints. Then the thrones are set up and we rule and reign with Christ for a thousand years.
Hebrews 1:8 says that only jesus is called a son of God. So the Angel's are not sons.
I understand that job calls someone sons of God but its not fallen Angel's.
May God bless all who read this.
Matthew 12:40 For as Jonas was three days and three nights in the whale's belly; so shall the Son of man be three days and three nights in the heart of the earth. what was Jesus doing there? preaching the gospel
1 Peter Chapter 3: 18 For Christ also hath once suffered for sins, the just for the unjust, that he might bring us to God, being put to death in the flesh, but quickened by the Spirit:
19 By which also he went and preached unto the spirits in prison;
fallen angels have no offer of salvation Hebrews 2:16