Warning: session_start(): open(/var/lib/lsphp/session/lsphp80/sess_818cm46ogc12kopamgp7hjelel, O_RDWR) failed: No space left on device (28) in /home/kjv.site/public_html/Book-Discussion/bookdiscuss.php on line 2
Warning: session_start(): Failed to read session data: files (path: /var/lib/lsphp/session/lsphp80) in /home/kjv.site/public_html/Book-Discussion/bookdiscuss.php on line 2 1 Thessalonians Chapter 4 Discussion
Remember he is the God of the living, I am the God of Abraham, the God of Isaac, and the God of Jacob'[a]? He is not the God of the dead but of the living."
This is not a salvation issue and shouldn't cause divisions within the body, but yes, I believe you are interpreting the Bible correctly. In my opinion theree is much stronger Biblical support for this compared to the idea of Christians going direct to heaven as they die. Someone can simply make a list and there are probably more than double the amount of verses supporting that someone will wait in sleep for Jesus to return than to go to heaven immediately. It also makes more logical sense as it would seem weird for Christians to go to heaven and skip judgment when it says everyone will be judged, and everyone in this case means everyone- and it also says it will happen on the same day: the day of judgment, which wouldn't exactly happen if people periodically went to heaven randomly. It would not make as much logical sense if Christians went to heaven only to return back to earth in the grave to rise, then meet Jesus, then go back to heaven a 2nd time. Whereas, the alternative seems to both fit scripture and be more logical too.
John 5:28-29
1 Thessalonians 4:13-18.
Daniel 12:2
1 Corinthians 15:6
1 Corinthians 15:51
etc
The support for the other perspective is the thief on the cross through an assumption that this is a template for all of mankind to follow and no exceptions and that paradise is the same is heaven. The second is that when Paul said he'd rather be away from his body and with the Lord that one assumes his preference means reality for all, and assumes that him wanting to be with the Lord means there's no waiting period. Of course when someone sleeps in death it likely won't seem like waiting, just like when we sleep on earth we usually aren't conscious a full 8 hours waiting to wake up. God bless.
When a believer dies, their physical body goes into the grave but their spirit departs and immediately goes to be with the Lord.
As it says in 1 Thessalonians 4:16, the dead in Christ will rise first to meet the Lord in the air. This is not the second coming of Christ. This is what is called the rapture of the church.
At this time, only the dead in Christ will be resurrected. There will be a second resurrection for the wicked dead at a later time, and we see that in the book of Revelation.
But in 1 Thessalonians Chapter 4, this is for believers. It is when Christ comes for His church. If you look at the very next verse, 1 Thessalonians 4:17, it tells us that we also go to meet the Lord in the air.
This is going to happen very quickly. So we which are alive and remain will be caught up together with them. So they (the dead in Christ), they come up out of the grave first, and we get caught up with them to where when we get to the Lord, we get there at the same time.
It will be simultaneous, though their action starts first, which is very understandable because they're underground and we're above ground.
It says for a meeting with the Lord in the air: and so shall we ever be with the Lord.
In 1 Thessalonians 4:16. ...and the dead in Christ shall rise first. Does that mean a saved Christian does not go to heaven right away when they die, so they also have to wait like the living until the coming of Christ?
Hi Theresa. I think your question relates to Hebrews 9:27, that "it is appointed unto men once to die", so if all have to first die, then how can some not experience death by virtue of the Rapture?
I understand that the Hebrews writer is emphasizing the one-time death of a person & its finality, with no further time afterwards to set the life straight before facing God's Judgement. To this end, the writer writes about Jesus suffering and dying just once (verse 26) and that our sins were borne by Him only once (verse 28), which was sufficient & acceptable to the Father & was able to fully redeem the repentant sinner. So the emphasis is not only on the one-time efficacious sacrifice of Jesus, but also that the sacrifice would never/could never be repeated. Unlike some in other Churches who through the 'sacraments' re-crucify the Lord enabling the emblems of bread & wine to be 'mystically' re-constituted into the actual body & blood of Jesus. This can never happen or else we subject Jesus "to an open shame" ( Hebrews 6:6).
So, we won't be able to "square 1 Thessalonians 4:17 with Hebrews 9:27, simply because these are two different matters. The first that living & dead believers in Christ will be caught up in the air to be with Jesus (the living not experiencing death), and the second matter, that because we are sinners & "the wages of sin is death (both physically & spiritually), then all men are subject to dying (an appointment we must all keep - unless the Lord comes first to snatch His Church away before the Wrath of God falls upon the Christ-rejecting World).
Oh they'll escape physical death alright, first they die a spiritual death, then some will wish to die physically for being deceived into following the false Christ when he appears and claims to be the Messiah, and many from being tormented for five months by the locust army.
Cheryl, As Joe cited from Scripture, anyone who is resurrected and therefore immortal will not have any children from then on. Only humans who are still in this earthly, mortal life will bear children.
The answer is yes, those who are raptured will not see physical death. So, if the rapture happens during our lifetime, we will not see physical death. Hebrews 9:27 does not fit with 1 Thessalonians 4:17. If we think about it, and if we had to wait for every person to physically die first, there would never be a rapture because someone is being born every day.
I think scripture is showing us that only people who survive 7 years of near starvation, no fresh water, diseases, threats from people and animals;
Planetary signs like "the stars of heaven falling to earth", falling asteroids; times of no sunlight and frightening signs in the sky. World wide wars.
Those signs are to awaken us to the facts that 2 Peter 3, is REALITY. Bill Gates, Elon Musk and other "Thought Leaders" cannot oppose and defeat what God has said in the BIBLE, will happen on earth.
It breaks my heart that you don't have faith that God is Love and that He is Good.
Every single conception that occurred but ended before birth: are alive in Heaven now. How must God feel when people publically scream for abortion rights? Each child is precious to Him.
That's why I said, if you want to be a mother now__have your children now. All of you will be Raptured. All will live eternally. John 3:16 For God SO LOVED THE WORLD. That's a Promise. Read that whole book.
It may seem like the Bible is a book of fairytales, but it's TRUTH. Jesus gave His Life so that every word in it would come true. His Life fulfilled every word written.
Satan will cause a great delusion, so people will believe LIES and elect to go through 7 years of impossible circumstances; and die in UNBELIEF.
If you choose TRUTH, you'll have no fears of what earth and lying Leaders do to us.
1 Thessalonians 4:13-18
14 For if we believe that Jesus died and rose again, even so them also which sleep in Jesus will God bring with him.
15 For this we say unto you by the word of the Lord, that we which are alive and remain unto the coming of the Lord shall NOT prevent them which are "asleep."
16 For the Lord himself shall descend from heaven with a shout, with the voice of the archangel, and with the trump of God: and the dead in Christ (BORN AGAIN) shall rise first.
17 Then WE WHICH ARE ALIVE and remain SHALL BE CAUGHT UPWITH THEM
I was looking into that today. You're not the only one wondering about marriage, sex and babies, in heaven.
Babies born now, to unsaved mothers; will be raptured. Not the mother. God will be their Father. That's just the way it is.
If you read what is to come, upon the earth: in 2 Peter 3
You can make an informed choice. It's burning now, but it's being sold to us as GLOBAL WARMING. The earth is heating up for the End of Time. Carefully and slowly read that chapter.
We should desire to go to heaven, to be together with children and family of course. But Most importantly, to be with our Savior, Jesus.
Now is the time to be born again; marry and have your babies.
The way I understand it, only humans who choose to go through the Tribulation, followed by the Great Tribulation (when Antichrist will murder anyone who does not have his mark in their hand or forehead) will be slaughtered. There will be no food. No fresh water. It will be poisoned by destroyed nuclear reactors.
So you'd have to survive all that and Armageddon to have Jesus take you to heaven IF you had received Him to be your Savior. If you miss the rapture, you have to make it through the destruction of earths inhabitants, to make it to heaven to be able to bear children.
You're not the only one asking this question. There is a Tribulation Movie you can watch on YouTube:
"Blesson Tribulation movie"
You'd have to live through the Entire book of Revelation to be a candidate for marriage & motherhood in heaven. Have you read it through?
You are probably aware of the verse about us being as the "angels of heaven" ( Mark 12:25). This of course refers to the Resurrection body. There is the question of those who may be pregnant at the time of the rapture. We are all "changed" so there is no real way of knowing whether a pregnancy would continue within the womb or somehow outside of it; in either case it seems scriptural that at least children of believers would go with them to heaven although it can't be proven. That also would have the infant changed into an immortal body if he or she ends up in heaven. It does seem certain from David's comment on the child he lost after sinning with Bathsheeba along with other scriptures that the souls of all unborn will end up in heaven and someday be Resurrected. People want to say all kids will be raptured; I can't see that proven scripturally; just that the souls of all unborn kids will make it to heaven if they die before a certain age.
Anyway; of course there will be the few that survive through the Tribulation who have kids; many of whom will live until the end of the Millennium; hence being those who ARE in the Book of Life at the Great White Throne Judgment IF they are not killed due to some sort of sin beforehand ( Isaiah 65:20). After the Millenium; it would appear that all mortals also enter immortality; once the new heaven and new earth are created.
These issues shouldn't of course be a distraction to plans now; having children and getting married. It is good; however to put our mind on things above ( Colossians 3:1-10). God can give us contentedness now; and surely we will rejoice in heaven and not miss our earthly existence. There is always a tendency to concern ourselves with all the things of this world; rather than casting our cares on Him; especially today. Of course it is always best to have a healthy church community which seems to be found more often in the Reformed churches. May He give you wisdom in these trying times.
Yes, many refer to this event of Jesus followers being caught up in the air to meet Jesus as being a rapture.
Some believe its the same event as Matthew 24:39-44, but verse 39 likens it to the flood in which the unbelievers were taken away. Either way, we should be ready.
There are signs given that precede Jesus's Return: Matthew 24, Luke 21. They are described as being like a woman's labor pains: mild at first, violent at transition.
Another sign: the Abomination of Desolation.
Read Matthew 25:15
Mark 13:14
Revelation 21:27
Another: Israel will be surrounded by their enemies.
Many of these signs are happening now. Now is the time to evangelize loved ones and others.
Matthew 22:32 what is written
Remember he is the God of the living, I am the God of Abraham, the God of Isaac, and the God of Jacob'[a]? He is not the God of the dead but of the living."
When believer dies he goes to be with the father
This is not a salvation issue and shouldn't cause divisions within the body, but yes, I believe you are interpreting the Bible correctly. In my opinion theree is much stronger Biblical support for this compared to the idea of Christians going direct to heaven as they die. Someone can simply make a list and there are probably more than double the amount of verses supporting that someone will wait in sleep for Jesus to return than to go to heaven immediately. It also makes more logical sense as it would seem weird for Christians to go to heaven and skip judgment when it says everyone will be judged, and everyone in this case means everyone- and it also says it will happen on the same day: the day of judgment, which wouldn't exactly happen if people periodically went to heaven randomly. It would not make as much logical sense if Christians went to heaven only to return back to earth in the grave to rise, then meet Jesus, then go back to heaven a 2nd time. Whereas, the alternative seems to both fit scripture and be more logical too.
John 5:28-29
1 Thessalonians 4:13-18.
Daniel 12:2
1 Corinthians 15:6
1 Corinthians 15:51
etc
The support for the other perspective is the thief on the cross through an assumption that this is a template for all of mankind to follow and no exceptions and that paradise is the same is heaven. The second is that when Paul said he'd rather be away from his body and with the Lord that one assumes his preference means reality for all, and assumes that him wanting to be with the Lord means there's no waiting period. Of course when someone sleeps in death it likely won't seem like waiting, just like when we sleep on earth we usually aren't conscious a full 8 hours waiting to wake up. God bless.
When a believer dies, their physical body goes into the grave but their spirit departs and immediately goes to be with the Lord.
As it says in 1 Thessalonians 4:16, the dead in Christ will rise first to meet the Lord in the air. This is not the second coming of Christ. This is what is called the rapture of the church.
At this time, only the dead in Christ will be resurrected. There will be a second resurrection for the wicked dead at a later time, and we see that in the book of Revelation.
But in 1 Thessalonians Chapter 4, this is for believers. It is when Christ comes for His church. If you look at the very next verse, 1 Thessalonians 4:17, it tells us that we also go to meet the Lord in the air.
This is going to happen very quickly. So we which are alive and remain will be caught up together with them. So they (the dead in Christ), they come up out of the grave first, and we get caught up with them to where when we get to the Lord, we get there at the same time.
It will be simultaneous, though their action starts first, which is very understandable because they're underground and we're above ground.
It says for a meeting with the Lord in the air: and so shall we ever be with the Lord.
I understand that the Hebrews writer is emphasizing the one-time death of a person & its finality, with no further time afterwards to set the life straight before facing God's Judgement. To this end, the writer writes about Jesus suffering and dying just once (verse 26) and that our sins were borne by Him only once (verse 28), which was sufficient & acceptable to the Father & was able to fully redeem the repentant sinner. So the emphasis is not only on the one-time efficacious sacrifice of Jesus, but also that the sacrifice would never/could never be repeated. Unlike some in other Churches who through the 'sacraments' re-crucify the Lord enabling the emblems of bread & wine to be 'mystically' re-constituted into the actual body & blood of Jesus. This can never happen or else we subject Jesus "to an open shame" ( Hebrews 6:6).
So, we won't be able to "square 1 Thessalonians 4:17 with Hebrews 9:27, simply because these are two different matters. The first that living & dead believers in Christ will be caught up in the air to be with Jesus (the living not experiencing death), and the second matter, that because we are sinners & "the wages of sin is death (both physically & spiritually), then all men are subject to dying (an appointment we must all keep - unless the Lord comes first to snatch His Church away before the Wrath of God falls upon the Christ-rejecting World).
The answer is yes, those who are raptured will not see physical death. So, if the rapture happens during our lifetime, we will not see physical death. Hebrews 9:27 does not fit with 1 Thessalonians 4:17. If we think about it, and if we had to wait for every person to physically die first, there would never be a rapture because someone is being born every day.
Mathew 22:30
For in the resurrection they neither marry, nor are given in marriage, but are as the angels of God in heaven.
Mark 12:25
For when they shall rise from the dead, they neither marry, nor are given in marriage; but are as the angels which are in heaven.
Is it that living, raptured believers will escape physical death?
Thanks.
Planetary signs like "the stars of heaven falling to earth", falling asteroids; times of no sunlight and frightening signs in the sky. World wide wars.
Those signs are to awaken us to the facts that 2 Peter 3, is REALITY. Bill Gates, Elon Musk and other "Thought Leaders" cannot oppose and defeat what God has said in the BIBLE, will happen on earth.
It breaks my heart that you don't have faith that God is Love and that He is Good.
Every single conception that occurred but ended before birth: are alive in Heaven now. How must God feel when people publically scream for abortion rights? Each child is precious to Him.
That's why I said, if you want to be a mother now__have your children now. All of you will be Raptured. All will live eternally. John 3:16 For God SO LOVED THE WORLD. That's a Promise. Read that whole book.
It may seem like the Bible is a book of fairytales, but it's TRUTH. Jesus gave His Life so that every word in it would come true. His Life fulfilled every word written.
Satan will cause a great delusion, so people will believe LIES and elect to go through 7 years of impossible circumstances; and die in UNBELIEF.
If you choose TRUTH, you'll have no fears of what earth and lying Leaders do to us.
1 Thessalonians 4:13-18
14 For if we believe that Jesus died and rose again, even so them also which sleep in Jesus will God bring with him.
15 For this we say unto you by the word of the Lord, that we which are alive and remain unto the coming of the Lord shall NOT prevent them which are "asleep."
16 For the Lord himself shall descend from heaven with a shout, with the voice of the archangel, and with the trump of God: and the dead in Christ (BORN AGAIN) shall rise first.
17 Then WE WHICH ARE ALIVE and remain SHALL BE CAUGHT UPWITH THEM
Babies born now, to unsaved mothers; will be raptured. Not the mother. God will be their Father. That's just the way it is.
If you read what is to come, upon the earth: in 2 Peter 3
You can make an informed choice. It's burning now, but it's being sold to us as GLOBAL WARMING. The earth is heating up for the End of Time. Carefully and slowly read that chapter.
We should desire to go to heaven, to be together with children and family of course. But Most importantly, to be with our Savior, Jesus.
Now is the time to be born again; marry and have your babies.
The way I understand it, only humans who choose to go through the Tribulation, followed by the Great Tribulation (when Antichrist will murder anyone who does not have his mark in their hand or forehead) will be slaughtered. There will be no food. No fresh water. It will be poisoned by destroyed nuclear reactors.
So you'd have to survive all that and Armageddon to have Jesus take you to heaven IF you had received Him to be your Savior. If you miss the rapture, you have to make it through the destruction of earths inhabitants, to make it to heaven to be able to bear children.
You're not the only one asking this question. There is a Tribulation Movie you can watch on YouTube:
"Blesson Tribulation movie"
You'd have to live through the Entire book of Revelation to be a candidate for marriage & motherhood in heaven. Have you read it through?
Anyway; of course there will be the few that survive through the Tribulation who have kids; many of whom will live until the end of the Millennium; hence being those who ARE in the Book of Life at the Great White Throne Judgment IF they are not killed due to some sort of sin beforehand ( Isaiah 65:20). After the Millenium; it would appear that all mortals also enter immortality; once the new heaven and new earth are created.
These issues shouldn't of course be a distraction to plans now; having children and getting married. It is good; however to put our mind on things above ( Colossians 3:1-10). God can give us contentedness now; and surely we will rejoice in heaven and not miss our earthly existence. There is always a tendency to concern ourselves with all the things of this world; rather than casting our cares on Him; especially today. Of course it is always best to have a healthy church community which seems to be found more often in the Reformed churches. May He give you wisdom in these trying times.
I have to sift scripture over those raptured that receive resurrection bodies.
Some movies show it, but I need some scriptures to back it. I'll get on it :)
bodies.
Some believe its the same event as Matthew 24:39-44, but verse 39 likens it to the flood in which the unbelievers were taken away. Either way, we should be ready.
A more precise translation from the greek would be "grabbed".
GBU
Another sign: the Abomination of Desolation.
Read Matthew 25:15
Mark 13:14
Revelation 21:27
Another: Israel will be surrounded by their enemies.
Many of these signs are happening now. Now is the time to evangelize loved ones and others.
Please read: Matthew 24, Matthew 7, Matthew 25:31-46,
Hopefully these are helpful, please read the Bible & study, so no-one can lead you astray.
Also where does it say in the Bible about once saved always saved.