1 Thessalonians Chapter 4 Discussion Page 2

I love the lord with all my heart

I don't think any one , would judge some one who was in constant pain every day , harshly for taking pain relief . Constant pain is extremely distressing . However I agree with Gigi , if your conscience is nibbling in your ear , maybe you should talk to your doctor about it . I hope you get yourself sorted soon , may God bless you .

Let me be clear, under NO circumstances is sin ok for anyone to practice. Sin is what separated man from God in the first place. It is why God sent JESUS.

This gentleman was doubting his salvation because he believes he is addicted to pain meds. I walked this road with a husband who is a Christian and who was in severe pain on a daily basis. He did not set out to be on pain medications, but this is one of the leading causes of addiction. I don't know all the details, but I don't have to know them either, because God does. What I do know is that God is greater than anything we will ever face, sin or otherwise.

I am not a doctor, medications and the taking of medications are between this man and his doctor. That is for him to continue to address. He however needs help both naturally and spiritually. But clearly he has hit a roadblock that is now affecting his soul. My response addresses the condition of the soul.

God said, if you make your bed in hell I'm there. So my point is no matter what position you find yourself in, don't run from God, or be afraid about how you ended up there, BUT RUN TO HIM, and if you read the entire prayer you would see that. Jesus said "he that comes to me, I will in no wise cast out." When we come to him, we are really coming to the "Truth" Proverbs 33:4 says "The word of the Lord is right, and ALL God's works are done in Truth." God rescues those that come to Him in Truth. The bible says in John 1:17. Grace and Truth came by Jesus Christ. Grace is God's ability and Truth is the force that ignites God's ability. We will ALWAYS get a response from God when we come to Him in TRUTH.

Hello, I noticed your comment below and feel led to respond. I'm sure you mean well and are trying to be encouraging, but it's a possibility that some are badly harming themselves and don't need to be enabled and encouraged to continue.

>Don't feel guilty because you are taking medication. Instead of allowing the devil to shame you.

If a person abusing himself nearly to the point of suicide and you tell him not to feel bad about it, it might not really helping him. I don't think its right to encourage anyone to abuse or deface God's holy temple. Feeling bad about sin isn't allowing the devil to shame you, Christians should feel bad about sin already. God gives us guilt for a reason, and is healthy sign for us to stop it. God hates sin and if we do violate God's commands I don't think other Christians should encourage us to disobey God and sin. Your prayer and other suggestions I believe are supportive. God bless.

My dear brother in the Lord...NOTHING can separate you from the love of God which is in Christ Jesus. Read Romans 8:38-39.

I have a word strategy to give you from the Word of the Lord. He said in Proverbs 3:6 "...in ALL your ways acknowledge Him and He will direct your path." "All your ways" means whether you are walking in His will or have walked outside of it.

You are a believer and you are connected to Him, that is the reason you even care to ask this question. Because it concerns you. You know this is not his best, and you are reaching for the promise of His best which is in the life of Christ. Deliverance is yours so let's go to God and believe Him for your freedom. Freedom belongs to you in Christ.

Don't feel guilty because you are taking medication. Instead of allowing the devil to shame you. Let the shame return to the devil by holding up the medication to God and acknowledging the medication to God.

Pray and say "God, healing is not in this medication but healing is in your Word. You sent Your Word and healed them all, and that includes me. I use my voice to declare this. My dependency is not for medication, but my dependency is upon your Word. So even as I take this medication I ask you to bless it and make it fit for use, and remove from me any dependency for it. I put my trust in you. In Jesus Name. Amen.

If addiction to pain medications is troubling you then you may be experiencing the conflict all believers have between the flesh and God's Spirit united with their born-again spirit. A born-again believer cannot change back into a lost sinner once he has been born again, but the flesh of believers can become a problem God uses to help the believers draw nigh to God and seek His deliverance from evil. If you are troubled in any way for any reason, go to the Lord and beg Him for help and deliverance from evil and never stop going to the Lord and never stop praying for His help to become the type of Christian He desires you to become.

Dear Larry, If you are having enough pain every day that is relieved well with these medication, then maybe that is what you should do. I recommend talking to your doctor about your feeling of being addicted. Maybe he can give you another type of pain medication and slowly wean you off of the med that you are addicted to.

If your pain can be relieved by aceteminephin/ibuprofen, or other non-narcotic med. Than you may not need the narcotic. So talk with your doctor about helping you overcome this addiction.

I'm waiting on three surgeries. I'm not being given any pain medication. All I have is much prayer and spiritual warfare. God in His Mercy cares what we go through.

There's too much scripture on it.

Include the Lord in your daily routine. Pray. Stand fast in Ephesians 6. Our enemies are invisible. Bind them and their assault on you. Release the Love snd Strength of God to be your comfort and shield.

His Grace is Sufficient, 2 Corinthians 12:9. Read chapters 10-12 often. Paul followed Jesus, after a career of violence. He was beat on a lot for turning to Jesus.

We can get through this. Encourage yourself.

Larry:

You are saved by the ELECTION of GRACE, the blood of Christ sealed this election of grace.

Addiction WILL NOT keep you from being saved by GRACE; however, GRACE can deliver you from addiction.

It's the WORKS of GOD, you can never deliver yourself.

God Bless YOU.

Dear Larry

Addictions to sinful things are bad. Now for medicine I don't think there is anything to worry about as far as your spiritual life is concerned but medically you should be very careful not to get addicted . Now again if you can not withstand the pain and have to take medicine, then this is a something you should talk about with your doctor, it's not a matter of faith. But you can pray to God and ask him either to take the pain away or to help you not getting addicted to that medicine.

I would like others to comment on that as well.

Are you still saved if you have to take pain medication for pain every day ?? And you're addicted to it .

Thanks Daniel, my belief is the same. Rapture will occur just before the appearance of antichrist in the world, tribulation is after (probably after the first half of the "week" which means that antichrist will use the first half of the "week" to establish his authority and then force people to accept his mark), otherwise many verses in the Bible just don't fit together. About that study of yours, can you share it or give a link to it or smt else? GBU

This is probably the closest to a correct answer I've even seen posted this site. 1. & 1a.

The rapture would not occur anytime after, the Biblical teachings of the rapture (over 28 verses in the Bible which relate directly to a pre-tribulation rapture). The mid-tribulation, post-tribulation, millennial rapture teachings have a relatively dark history. Two of them (I believe they're the oldest false teachings of the 3 latter mentioned) teach that the rapture has already happened and as has the tribulation. There's another one which states everything was literal in the Bible and also already came to pass. The sects that teach that also believe that state that the streets of gold Christ talks about were not Spiritual but literal streets in Jerusalem.

This used to be a relatively clear topic in theology but modern ministries have completely polluted. As I've written in a previous post -- there's no need to speculate: will Christians endure the 7-year tribulation? Satan would have some believe that and steal your peace.

"Because thou hast kept the word of my patience, I also will keep thee from the hour of temptation, which shall come upon all the world, to try them that dwell upon the earth." - Revelation 3:10

I have an entire study on this which also gives historical account of members of the early church (post Revelation) who wrote about the pre-tribulation rapture and wrote about it.

Sorry but I have to correct my previous post

1a. Rapture occurs before the appearance of antichrist

2a. Rapture occurs in the midway the seven years that antichrist will rule on earth. Immediately after rapture the tribulation will take place.

Dear John

If you mean the tribulation that will occur in the world during the time that antichrist will rule on earth, then it is one but the opinions for when it happens (in accordance to rapture) are two: (there are subdivisions as well)

1. After rapture. So rapture precedes tribulation.

1a. After antichrist's appearance in the world in the beginng.

2a. Midway the 7 years that he'll rule on earth.

2. Before rapture. In this case rapture occurs at the very end after the fight of Armageddon

GBU

Hello John. I only recall there is only one Tribulation still to come. It is called, The Great Tribulation ( Matthew 24:21). Jesus said in John 16:33, "These things I have spoken unto you, that in me ye might have peace. In the world ye shall have tribulation: but be of good cheer; I have overcome the world." Here, 'tribulation' is simply the sufferings, hardships, even persecutions that we all might face (as also Romans 8:35; 2 Corinthians 7:4; etc.). But the Great Tribulation that Jesus speaks of, & other epistle writers also refer to, is the time of the outpouring of God's Wrath ( Revelation 6:17; Revelation 16:1; 1 Thessalonians 5:9; Ephesians 5:6); an anger against the accumulated wickedness of Earth's inhabitants which cannot be held back by Him any longer. The deaths & devastation will be frightening to say the least & the world will know that this is the Anger of the Lord upon them & none will be innocent bystanders - all those left on Earth will stand guilty before Him.

Go on YouTube and watch a new video that's a little over an hour long.

Search: " BLESSON Biblical End Times "

Tribulation definition online: "a cause of great trouble or suffering"

Deuteronomy 4:29,30,31, 1Samuel 26:24, Matthew 13:20-21, John 16:33, Acts 14:22, Romans 5:3, Romans 8:35-39, Romans 12:12, 2Corinthians 1:3-5, 1Thessalonians 3:4, 2Thessalonians 1:6, Revelation 1:9, Revelation 2:9,10,22,

There seems to be a difference between tribulation & The great Tribulation,

Matthew 24:21, Romans 2, Revelation 7:14,

Matthew 24:3-51, Mark 13:4-37,

How many tribulations are supposed to be in the end times

Thanks Brother Earl.

God bless.

Amen and Amen, Brother S Spencer!

God Bless You!

Yes FREE

I think we all will be very surprised no matter what we think now on this matter.

Hi Darrel.

I would like to share my thoughts.

First I would like to establish this;

In 2 Peter 1:14. Peter says "Knowing that shortly I must put off this my tabernacle, even as our Lord Jesus Christ hath shewed me."

The tabernacle is the body which the spirit resides in. Peter still exists, The only thing seems to be going anywhere is Peters body.

Now I would like to share a few verses.

John 14:20.

John 14:23.

John 11:25-26.

John 17:22-23. And the glory which thou gavest me I have given them; that they may be one, even as we are one:

I IN THEM, and thou in me, that they may be made perfect in one; and that the world may know that thou hast sent me, and hast loved them, as thou hast loved me. "I IN THEM"

Colossians 3:3-4. For ye are dead, and your life is hid with Christ in God.

When Christ, who is our life, shall appear, then shall ye also appear with him in glory. ( You are already in Christ. ) When you die Christ will be fully manifested to you and in you. No longer hidden.

Galatians 2:20. Paul says he is crucified with Christ, nevertheless he lives. ( Christ dies no more, neither does Paul. ) This is why Paul says absent of the body, present with the Lord. There is no where for the spirit to go! It's not the spirit of the world that lives in a Christian, It's Christ spirit that lives in you.

1 Corinthians 15:44-49.

This sinful body we inherited from the 1st Adam returns to the Earth.

The 2nd Adam is a life giving spirit, one that we was baptized into, and the same everlasting spirit that resides in you.

The spirit will be made perfect and the body returns to Earth.

God bless.

Just to confirm Marke and you say here "GiGi", the robber on the cross got to paradise right away. : D We may be very surprised (if there is a surprise) in Paradise.

Luke 23:43 And Jesus said unto him, Verily I say unto thee, To day shalt thou be with me in paradise.

Surprise me Lord? You who have all Power in heaven and on earth. Matthew 28:18-20

John 8:31-32 Love u all have a nice Easter

This subject has been hotly contested and I just had a member of my small group take that stance this week. The fact that God is said to put "eternity" in men's hearts surely shows that there is a concept of it once we are at a certain age. ( Ecclesiastes 3:11). We also have Stephen who right before he died saw Christ standing on His throne; then he "fell asleep." Acts 7:60. We have the great "cloud of witnesses" of Hebrews 11; those under the throne who have been martyred ( Rev. 6:9-11); David's commentary about his son dying ( 2 Sam. 12:23) where he says that his son can't come to him but he shall go to see him (after death); the appearance of Moses and Elijah (although Elijah was translated) at the transfiguration; and verses about Sheol. Jesus has the parable about Lazarus and the rich man ( Luke 16:19-31) about the fate of O.T. people in both sections of Sheol; and the captivity being made captive ( Eph. 4:8 also prophesied in Psalm 68:18; Jesus promising the thief on the cross that today he would be in paradise ( Luke 23:43); and that would be followed by many saints coming out of their graves after the Resurrection ( Matthew 27:52-53). We also have Hebrews 9:27 which says man is destined to die once; then face the judgment.

There are many other confirming verses. We must keep in mind that when the word "qeber" is used defining the grave; and a person ceasing to exist it is the body. Sheol; however is the land of the dead. We must also keep in mind that the spirits of just men made perfect ( Heb. 12:23) would start with Christ the first of the firstfruits; so to speak. God is not the God of the dead but the living ( Luke 20:38). John 8:56 says that Abraham longed to see the day HE SAW IT AND REJOICED. We have Paul's vision of things unspeakable whether in the flesh or not he didn't know ( 2 Cor. 12:2). Finally; John's vision in Revelation literally saw the future.

The biggest issue is WHY people think soul sleep exists. It concerns me.

Responding to ELB,

1John 4:1-20,

Genesis 41:8, Genesis 45:27, Exodus 6:9, Exodus 28:3, Exodus 35:12, Numbers 14:24, Deuteronomy 2:30, Deuteronomy 34:9, Joshua 5:1, Proverbs 18:14, Ezekiel 1:20, Romans 8:14-16, Haggi 1:14,

Isaiah 11:2,

Leviticus 20:27, Numbers 5:14,30,

Numbers 11:17,25,

Judges 9:23,

Hopefully these are helpful

I agree with GiGi. I believe when Elijah was caught up in the whirlwind he was set back down in short order on the street in Jerusalem in the middle of the 7-year tribulation that is still in our future.

Hello Darrell, Adam and Samuel

The Scriptures are pretty vague on this topic. This side of heaven we just do not know for sure.

This is my take on this. In this mortal life on earth we are bound by time. So, today is 4/8/2022. But when we die, we are not bound by time any longer.

With God, all of earth history and time has already happened in His omniscience and timelessness. Therefore, I think that when someone dies they immediately are at the point of the resurrection of the dead. the judgment, and eternal reign of Christ.

Although to us it may seem that a person has been dead for 5, 10, or 100 years, but on the other side on death, time does hold to anyone. One goes from mortal life, to death, to the resurrection, to the forever NOW.

I may be totally wrong on this. But it makes sense to me. We shall all see one day, won't we. And then the question will be answered.

I'd like to offer an alternative viewpoint to the absent with body present with Lord phrase.

First, it doesn't say that in the Bible. That phrase is actually from 2 Corinthians 5:8 where Paul said he would "rather" be absent from the body, and present with the Lord. He didn't say in 100% of all cases when people die that 100% of the time they will be "immediately" with the Lord. Paul was stating his preference. It doesn't mean Hitler and other mass murderers are with the Lord right now, simply because of this one verse.

Second, people often quote the verse about the man on the cross that Jesus said would be in "paradise" on that day as support. But Jesus didn't say 100% of all people, from this moment onward will 100% go to heaven, and zero people going to hell including Hitler? Jesus has the power to make exceptions and take people to heaven, but the word paradise is not necessarily the same as heaven. Some believe this word means a waiting area for the dead.

Lastly, there are many more Bible verses indicating that the dead are 'sleeping' and are awaiting the Lord to meet in the air and then face judgment. It says all will be judged, not just some. So, believing people go immediately to heaven without waiting on the Lord, and skipping judgment doesn't align with the other scriptures. God bless.

Daniel 12:2, Job 14:12, 1 Thessalonians 4:13-18

According to Solomon, "The dead know nothing" yet Paul writes in this letter that we in Christ are present with Him when removed from the flesh. In order to reconcile these seemingly contradictory accounts, we need to step away from our chains of time. Consider God's limitless capabilities. Not being constrained to time or space and traveling at the speed of thought in any direction, we can call upon Him and immediately, He hears. Before we ask. Consider when you fall on sleep each night. If you can sleep all night, the following is true: You close your eyes for just a blink. Then you wake. You have no notion that 8 hours have passed. If you wake early before an alarm, you must see the clock to know how much time has passed. We are unaware. When Jesus arrives to the home of the young girl he was to heal, they thought He was too late. Jesus tells them "The child sleeps"- For those in eternal rest, yes it is true they know nothing. Only those who are awake are aware of the passing of time. The next thing a "sleeping" child of God knows after nodding off is the sound of that "Alarm Clock" trumpet. Whether sleeping for 5 minutes or 1000 years, it's like a blink. Bam! With the Lord. And so for them, immediately after death, they are already walking into that glorious City of God. For the dead in Christ, the trumpet has sounded already. If you are a child of God and yet alive in your flesh, to the dead you are walking in with them. It has not manifested for you yet but... "IT IS FINISHED" Welcome Home! Remember, the Lamb was slain from the foundation of the World. I struggled with these 2 accounts until I turned the notion around in my head that Jesus knew me before the crucifixion. He made the statement, "Before Abraham was, I AM" Jesus conquered even the chains of time.

So I came up with another question. Where was I before this body? Present with...? And if I fast & pray, put my flesh away (absent) I can get into HIS presence. No flesh will glory in God's presence.