1 Thessalonians Chapter 4 Discussion Page 9

16 For the Lord himself shall descend from heaven with a shout, with the voice of the archangel, and with the trump of God: and the dead in Christ shall rise first:
17 Then we which are alive and remain shall be caught up together with them in the clouds, to meet the Lord in the air: and so shall we ever be with the Lord. _ I Thess 4: 16- 17: (Pre- Trib Rapture) 🙌❤😇

Ivan; The Prophet Daniel also speaks about "they of understanding" instructing many, and yet at one point some will fall, to try them and make them white, even up to the end. Jesus said that the deception He has appointed to consume the whole earth, shall be so strong that they that kill us will think to be doing God service; but we must endure to the END to be saved. We MUST have tribulation!

Ivan; in Daniel 9:22-25, the Angel speaks of 70 weeks, 7 weeks, and 62 weeks. According to your theorizing and trying to force an easy interpretation of one size fits all meanings; as if the Scriptures were written in code; what do you do with the 70 and the 62? Likewise the false teaching about a pre-tribulation rapture is not founded in Scripture and cannot answer to the realities of this world.

A Disciple. Prophet Daniel speaks of a peace treaty that man of sin signs for a week and breaks it halfway. The week stands for 7 years. Is ok if you do not believe in the "translation", you can have fun down here. I am going up when trumpet sounds. It is all by faith. If you do not believe you will stay.

Ivan; The "7 Years" is a myth, and a misinterpretation. The Word actually never says that. The same goes for the "supposed" three and a half years, with reference to the saying, Time and Times and the dividing of Time. There is not going to be any "pre-tribulation rapture." The transgressors must first come to the full, so that God takes away His restraint and SENDS to them their dilusions.

Donnie Green; The dead in Christ are not only the ones who died before the cross, but who have ever passed away as Saved Christians. The message is simply that God will first raise them up from their graves in the same moment that we the living who remain up to the Day of the LORD are in an instant changed; and we are all caught away in the clouds to meet the Lord, who is coming in the clouds!

DW. If you carefully study the type of judgements that are going to take place in the tribulation period you will see there is no escape. Most believers will be beheaded for their testimony. These judgements are directly from God and not the Devil. The faithful believers who take serious the warnings from the Lord, will escape all 7 years. Those lukewarm will stay behind.

Ok I hope to spread light to this subject. The dead in Christ is all those who died prior to the Cross. Since the cross we are absent from the body present with the Lord. However those prior to this was sent to Abraham's Bosom. Those will be called up first and then those whom are alive at the rapture will be called up. This all happens in a flash, but will happen and it is coming soon.

Ivan - Avoid and escape are two different things. You can only escape from something that’s caught you, to avoid is to say away.

Again this is why there are so many opinions. We isolate certain verses about a subject and ignore the others that speak on the same subject. God does not contradict Himself. Why would Jesus say to believers, watch and pray so they would be accounted worthy to escape "ALL THESE THINGS", if all believers are going thru the trib. Those 7 years are the wrath of God and not persecution.

Rosemary (cont.); The so called Great Tribulation is for all intents and purposes, already going on; and every sincere Believer who loves Jesus and seeks to walk with Him in this world, KNOWS that we are set to encounter trials and tribulation in the world; but we are by faith, of good cheer, knowing that Jesus has overcome the world. The sin of the children of disobedience must come to the full.

Dear Sister Rosemary; I'm afraid that many are going to be scandalized by what's coming. If we think about how difficult trials and temptations and chastisements are right now; in a relatively quiet time; how are they going to handle the horror and reality of death threat and State Mandated hatred and persecution; and the fantasy of pre-tribulation rapture has proven a lie and disastrous betrayal?

Jesus said this is the first resurrection. This means that you can not have a resurrection prior to this without calling Jesus a liar. If Paul said the DEAD IN CHRIST have to rise first, and Jesus said that the FIRST resurrection is not until AFTER the beheadings, there CAN NOT be pre tribulation rapture? Jesus and Paul said the exact same thing.

Revelation 20:4,5. "...and I saw the souls of them that were ...beheaded...and >they< lived and reigned with Christ a thousand years. But the rest of the dead lived not again until the thousand years were finished. Key words folks. >>>This is the {{{FIRST}}} resurrection.

Good point! How many are pushing everyone else out of the way to grab the microphone! Something an unregenerate heart just can't understand, that walking with God IS NOT FOR A SHOW TO IMPRESS OTHERS! Studying to be quiet is learning to preside over and master one's own spirit, and which is first and foremost subduing and keeping under control OUR MOUTHS. In much speaking there is no want of sin.

"And that ye study to be quiet, and to do your own business, and to work with your own hands, as we commanded you.That ye may walk honestly toward them that are without, and that ye may have lack of nothing." Have you ever known anyone, who actually STUDIED TO BE QUIET? It is though, the commandment of the Lord. 1Cor 15:37. And we know if we love Him, we will keep his commandments. John 14:15.

In respect to the terms [tribulation and the great tribulation] Jesus said; “For then shall be great tribulation, such as was not since the beginning of the world to this time, no, nor ever shall be. unless we are calling Him a liar He said the great tribulation was not since the beginning of the world. God is not a man that he should lie we need to prayerfully and spiritually braise our self.

I love the comment quoting Colossians 3:3,4: "For you died, and your life is hidden with Christ in God. When Christ who is our life appears, then you also will appear with him in glory." I am part of the dead in Christ when I die to self and believe on the Lord Jesus Christ.

"..we which are alive and remain unto the coming of the Lord.." When Noah and his family and all the animals were safely shut in by the LORD with him inside the ark; there was no more reason to restrain the windows of heaven and the fountains of the great deep; and the cataclysm of waters overthrew the whole earth. When Lot and his wife and daughters were safely out of Sodom; the LORD rained fire.

At this time, I am praying and asking God for true understanding of 'the day of Christ' and ' the day of the Lord's.

Jesus will come in the clouds of heaven with the Trumpet Angels are praising him this is the time were God will take out the Church as a bride and his people thats why if you will be found in the Church praising and worshiping and serving Jesus you will surely be save amen

It means the rapture is fixen to happen , trump means in quietness , he not going to sound the trumpet like everyone say, the trumpet is going to heard , in the second coming of CHRIST after the 7 years tribulation is passed...

He that is of God hears God's words! The only difference between "tribulation" and "THE [great] tribulation" (if there is at all); is that the one is the whole of this evil world come to its full end and ripeness for destruction. There have been many "great tribulations" sent upon the world for their iniquity; all were a result of sin and apostasy FIRST in those who had the Word and rejected it!

Charlie; Since you're quoting the Lord; READ EVERYTHING THE LORD SAID! Psalm 68:21; "God shall wound the head of His enemies, and the hairy scalp of him that goes on still in His trespasses." Jesus ALWAYS said, "Sin no more, lest a worse thing come unto thee!" He NEVER said, Oh blessed are you who believe in me; now you can can live the way you want with complete immunity from RIGHTEOUS JUDGMENT!

When I repented I didn,t take on any sins my sins were borne by JESUS on the cross!Who his own self bare our sins in His own body on the tree.1Pet.2:24.My sins are forgiven!In whom we have redemption through His blood even the forgiveness of sins.Col.1:12-14.I n whom we have redemption through His blood the forgiveness of sins.Eph.1:7Jesus forgave my sins.You want to bare sins go ahead mines gone

Tribulation is a thing the Great Tribulation is an event which JESUS spoke of Mt.24:21 the event He will keep the church from Rev3:10.Here on earth even JESUS faced temptation Luke4:1-13,Mk.1:12-13,Mt.4: 1-11 and while here on earth we will face temptation too.The way JESUS will keep us from it is in Heaven where the Devil and his angels will be cast into the earth never to accuse us againRev:12.

Dear Charlie (P.S.); The Lord will keep us, and does keep us from the hour of trial coming on the whole world! He has given us an understanding, and we know all things! Our understanding worked out in our faith, character, conduct, is the integrity through which God keeps us from sinning and from being drawn away after the perversion and deceit of the ungodly. He makes it a wall of waters!

Dear Charlie; As long as we abide in Jesus, and His word in us, we will bring forth fruit unto God; and not have to be cut off and cast away. Tribulation is appointed to us for several reasons, as you know. Trials and temptations and persecutions and afflictions prove us and are used by God to chasten and chastise and humble us; which is for our SALVATION, that we should not perish with the world.

Dear Preacher Charlie Chandler; The Lord said that in this world "we have tribulation;" and the entire Bible is full to overflowing with that fact, and the whole reason why! In addition it is written in the Law of the LORD about when we repent and are converted we would also accept what punishments and consequences He has brought us under for all the generations of sinning before us.

Paul speaks of this event then Chp5:9 says God hath not appointed us to wrath.Rev.6:16 says they will say to the rocks hide us from the wrath of the Lamb. this wrath is not for us.Jesus said to the church Rev3:10 I will keep thee from that hour of temptation that cometh upon the whole world to try them.We are not of this world.John15:9.Jesus will take us out of this world before His wrath.