2 Esdras Chapter 2 Discussion

Galatians 4:16

"Am I therefore become your enemy, because I tell you the truth?"

Who told you there were only 66 books? God told me the Apocrypha is his word i studied the Apocrypha. you can't just throw out a claim something is not scripture or fake if you haven't even studied it

I'm glad to see that the moderators, of which you are not one , are more respectful of the right to free speech and less presumptuous of the motives of others , than you are. If you want this site to be filled only with posts that you agree with then I am very sorry for you . Personally I love free speech and try not to guess at the motives of others in regard to what they say and why they might be saying it . Stimulation is good for the brain . Stagnation is bad for my faith . I have lived and worked in countries that do not have any free speech at all . It's horrible , fearful , paranoid , secretive and soul destroying . If you had ever experienced a society in which everyone is trying to second guess everyone else's motives and reasons for doing and saying every and any thing , you would understand what an enormous privilege , to be treasured , free speech is . When reading posts on here , I also try to remember that not everyone is as articulate or educated as everyone else and sometimes the way a person expresses themselves may not be accurately interpreted if English is their second language or they are not used to writing things that are going to be read by others . A little leeway is in order I think ?

Hello, maybe your ancestors were slave owners? That can't be disproven.

I agree with Spencer that this seems to be a tabloid-style attack that only takes away from the point you were trying to make. Who are "early church fathers" to you? Maybe your fathers aren't others' "fathers". My father is God the father.

Hi Sammi.

You stated;

"it's not often possible to discern some ones motive for posting and I think it's folly to try to do so . I don't believe that we know anyone's heart or mind fully . Secondly , the truth often makes uncomfortable reading , but if it is the truth it must not be ignored or covered up".

Here's the issue.

When Stlouistv stated; "the early church fathers who were slave owners btw had no business removing these books out of the bible and lied and said they were not inspired.

( That was contentious) There wasn't a need to discern anything being there was no proof provided with that racially tone msg that had no other purpose but to be contentious.

"THE EARLY CHURCH FATHERS WHO WERE SLAVE OWNERS." ???

Did that have to be added?

Is that not purposely contentious?

Where is the reasoning behind the comment or explanation. Proof and purpose?

Who and how is that statement declared truth?

Because he said so?

Just because you have freedom of speech means you have to speak, He should have pleaded the fifth.

Sammi I believe a person don't have to agree with peoples "opinions" but we all should earnestly covet what is truth and clarity.

I'm not a partial person and I am not influenced by any worldly culture or mans traditions whether male, female, or race. We're all held accountable to true worship in the church, without the world's influence.

Some love to use these sites to function in a way their local Church won't allow them. However this site has Guidelines.

We come here and take advantage of its liberty but let's not ignore

Galatians 5:13 "For, brethren, ye have been called unto liberty; only use not liberty for an occasion to the flesh, but by love serve one another."

Concerning the topic of the books of the Apocrypha there are groups out there that use those books to divide racially.

I've debated them and is very familiar with their catch phrases.

Let's see what follows.

God bless.

StLouisTv,

Is there any proof that you can share that would show without a doubt that these books were indeed inspired by God?

I find it interesting what Paul said in Acts 20:27, " For I have not shunned to declare unto you all the counsel of God."



What a great verse!



He hasn't withheld anything from them. He wanted them to know the (whole council) of God. That's why he sat house to house and publicly, any way he could, day and night as a slave of Christ, in order that every believer that he came in contact with would have the whole council of God.



That is one of the reasons why we have these times together, to go through the whole bible, chapter by chapter to see what it says. To know the whole council of God!

Now, Paul's statement would not make much sense if he left any part of those apocryphal books out. And Paul says he gave them the entire council of God, meaning nothing left out.

However, in all of Paul's writings, he never once quoted from any of those books. None of the apostles did either.

Plus, not once did Jesus ever quote from any of those books. It would seem that if they were inspired, Paul would have taught from them.

Perhaps there might be some valuable historical information in these books, but are the truly inspired by God?

Please forgive me if I appear to be argumentative , I can assure you that's not my intention . I must say how I feel though . Firstly , with all respect , it's not often possible to discern some ones motive for posting and I think it's folly to try to do so . I don't believe that we know anyone's heart or mind fully . Secondly , the truth often makes uncomfortable reading , but if it is the truth it must not be ignored or covered up . We , as humans , should be aware as much as possible , of the great mistakes wrought by governments , countries , cultures and individuals . It's only by being aware of our mistakes that we can hope to learn from them and not repeat them . History must not be erased or rewritten because it's uncomfortable , our children and children's children must be aware of our mistakes , no matter how hideous and shameful they are , so they can learn from them and not repeat them . This is the whole point of free speech . It's one of the cornerstones of democracy and must be upheld .

Hi.

This seems to be a post meant for contentious purposes.

How did this get past the moderators?

This is talking about the One Hundred Forty Four Thousand compare Revelation 14 to 2 Esdras 2

the early church fathers who were slave owners btw had no business removing these books out of the bible and lied and said they were not inspired.

God revealed to me these are his words.

You so do err in wisdom believing that Jesus is Gods son that word throughout. Scripture means servant you must use percepts. Read isa :28 9-10

The Grace of God is to all, the law of Moses was not to make you or us live Holy before God, but to show how much we could not, thus God Is Love and His Grace is not to one people, it has appeared to all, Thus Jesus Christ the Son Of God. To have eternal life is to know God.

Mortal clothing is speaking of the thoughts of the terrestrial brain. The immortal, then, would be the celestial thoughts. That is to mortify the carnal, to find the straight way home! To stand straight: do not bend, do not bow, do not break: as the mighty oak tree, planted on the solid ROCK CHRIST .

Pos: Hypothetically, if this was kept in the KJV it would be because of the references to Savior, Resurrection, Son of God Jesus Christ . Paul also mentions verse 45 in the NT. Def. for "palms " would be greatly appreciated. Neg: Q: Weren 't those who married the heathen destroyed by God? Why is it in here that they live? They are under the Law of Moses.

Hello children of the one true living God, please ask the Lord Jesus Christ to let the Holy Spirit guide you.

This chapter is full of great meaning and testimony of Jesus Christ First in verse 34 Esdras declares look for your Shepherd then even more directly I testify my Saviour openly And then I am amazed and impressed at the end of the chapter as it gives us a guide to obtain eternal life and also talks about the resurrection putting off the mortal clothing and putting on the inmortal Then he says in first 47 It is the Son of God whom they have confessed in the world The testimony and meaning here is clear and one that we can apply in our lives