2 Thessalonians Chapter 2 Discussion Page 5

The part about the Sabbath day. Without question the Veil of the Temple was torn and without question the ability to enter now into the Holy of Holies, placing one's self on the Mercy Seat by Faith in the work of Jesus Christ at Calvary is entering into His Sabbath. All seven days while time remains.

The day of circumcision of heart is the new life in the Risen Christ, we must finish the course of this race without looking back.

Am glad you quoted that Bob, because on my second paragraph it shows that Rome teach doctrines of men and neglect the word of God. Like replacing Sabbath with Sunday, they claim it's a mark of their authority.

Baptism of Children, Christ sent His disciples to preach and that them that believe to be baptised, Matthew 28:19, so how can you preach to a toddler?

They teach that you are saved by works yet the Bible teaches that you are saved by grace, an example of this is the Scala Sancta, read about it.

The Pope calls himself Pontifex Maximus, the bridge builder. This title was used Emperors of ancient pagan Rome where they were worshipped as gods.

Also read about Sola Scriptura

Paul clearly out-lined the chronology of events in that single verse! "Let no man deceive you" of what? Ans: WHEN Jesus will come again. A falling away by the Church first, second the "man of sin" Antichrist rules, then 3rd Christ returns! 2 Thess. Chapt. 1: 7-10 is very plain... THERE IS NO LEFT BEHIND...The righteous translated and go with Jesus! The wicked dead sleep on till the second resurrection after the millennium, Rev.20:5,7. The wicked living "shall be slain" by Christ's glory! No one lives on earth after the second coming...Secret pretrib. Rapture? Not biblical....A doctrine of Satan..

What is the Bible definition of an ANTICHRIST

1 John 2:22 - Who is a liar but he that denieth that Jesus is the Christ? He is antichrist, that denieth the Father and the Son. (ALL Jews deny Jesus and that makes them antichrist, if they believed in Jesus then they would be CHRISTIANS. IF you do not believe me call any Synagogue and ask them if Jesus is the Messiah.)

1 John 2:23 - Whosoever denieth the Son, the same hath not the Father: (but) he that acknowledgeth the Son hath the Father also.

Who changed the laws of God to the laws of man first before Rome did? Remember that Pharisees were a major denomination of the Jews.

Mark Chapter 7:5 Then the Pharisees and scribes asked him, Why walk not thy disciples according to the tradition of the elders, but eat bread with unwashen hands?

6 He answered and said unto them, Well hath Esaias prophesied of you hypocrites, as it is written, This people honoureth me with [their] lips, but their heart is far from me.

7 Howbeit in vain do they worship me, teaching [for] doctrines the commandments of men.

teaching [for] doctrines the commandments of men.

8 For laying aside the commandment of God, ye hold the tradition of men, [as] the washing of pots and cups: and many other such like things ye do.

9 And he said unto them, Full well ye reject the commandment of God, that ye may keep your own tradition.

13 Making the word of God of none effect through your TRADITION tradition, which ye have delivered: and many such like things do ye.

We are discussing of the antichrist that was to come as Paul wrote in 2 Thessalonians 2. This was long after Christ had died. And the Jews rejected Christ because they were expecting an earthly messiah who would deliver them from the Romans

The Bishop of Rome was declared the corrector of heretics by Justinian. By this the papacy slowly gained momentum and eventually had the power to even declare to be the one with sole authority to interpret the Bible. By this, it was able to replace the word of God with doctrines of men. Eg, children baptism, salvation by works, separation of body and soul after death etc.

Read about John Huss and Jerome, John Wycliffe, Martin Luther just to name a few.

Let us read who persecuted and killed Christ, the prophets and Christians.

Paul in 1 Thessalonians 2:14, 16 - For ye, brethren, became followers of the churches of God which in Judaea are in Christ Jesus: for ye also have suffered like things of your own countrymen, EVEN AS THEY HAVE OF THE JEWS: WHO BOTH KILLED THE LORD JESUS, and their own prophets, and have persecuted us; and THEY PLEASE NOT GOD, and are contrary to all men: Forbidding us to speak to the Gentiles that they might be saved, to fill up their sins alway: FOR THE WRATH IS COME UPON THEM TO THE UTTERMOST. (NOT ROME)

King James Bible book of John 5:16 - And therefore did the Jews persecute Jesus, and sought to slay him, because he had done these things on the sabbath day.

John 5:18 - Therefore the Jews sought the more to kill him, because he not only had broken the sabbath, but said also that God was his Father, making himself equal with God.



John 7:1 - After these things Jesus walked in Galilee: for he would not walk in Jewry, because the Jews sought to kill him.

Act 9:23 - And after that many days were fulfilled, the Jews took counsel to kill him

Act 23:12 - And when it was day, certain of the Jews banded together, and bound themselves under a curse, saying that they would neither eat nor drink till they had killed Paul.

Act 26:21 - For these causes the Jews caught me in the temple, and went about to kill me.

Do not rely on JMO when it comes to the word of God, search the scriptures to find truth. The verses shared tell more than I would even write. If you follow Daniel's prophecy concerning the fourth kingdom in Daniel 7:18-26 and Revelation 13:1-9, then read the history, for prophecy fulfilled is history, you might get an understanding who the antichrist is. Read the history of what brought about the rise of protestantism and how Christians were persecuted and who did this.

Kags

The fact is that I righteous by keeping the law, but through believing that Christ died in my place so that I may live. But being forgiven does not mean you continue in sin. The Decalogue shows the character of God which is Love Deut 6:5, Leviticus 19:18. And John 14:15, 15:14 shows this more clearly. Christ called us into obedience as He did the Israelites, He delivered them from bondage and then gave them His Commandments Exodus 20:1,2. If I claimed to be saved and love God, yet I fornicate, kill, tell lies, steal, disobedient to parents etc, would this bring praise and followers for Christ? Read James 2, 1 John 2:1-6, 1 Cor 6:9-10, 2 Peter 3:16, Romans 13:8-10, 6:23 and you will see.

All of these verses speak about THE Antichrist. Most Bible Concordances will list



1 John 2:22 - Who is a liar but he that denieth that Jesus is the Christ? He is antichrist, that denieth the Father and the Son.

Revelation 13:1-18 - And I stood upon the sand of the sea, and saw a beast rise up out of the sea, having seven heads and ten horns, and upon his horns ten crowns, and upon his heads the name of blasphemy. (Read More...)

1 John 4:3 - And every spirit that confesseth not that Jesus Christ is come in the flesh is not of God: and this is that [spirit] of antichrist, whereof ye have heard that it should come; and even now already is it in the world.

2 Thessalonians 2:3-4 - Let no man deceive you by any means: for [that day shall not come], except there come a falling away first, and that man of sin be revealed, the son of perdition; (Read More...)

1 John 2:18 - Little children, it is the last time: and as ye have heard that antichrist shall come, even now are there many antichrists; whereby we know that it is the last time.

Daniel 11:21 - And in his estate shall stand up a vile person, to whom they shall not give the honour of the kingdom: but he shall come in peaceably, and obtain the kingdom by flatteries.

Daniel 7:25 - And he shall speak [great] words against the most High, and shall wear out the saints of the most High, and think to change times and laws: and they shall be given into his hand until a time and times and the dividing of time.

Matthew 24:24 - For there shall arise false Christs, and false prophets, and shall shew great signs and wonders; insomuch that, if [it were] possible, they shall deceive the very elect.

2 John 1:7 - For many deceivers are entered into the world, who confess not that Jesus Christ is come in the flesh. This is a deceiver and an antichrist.

1 John 4:1 - Beloved, believe not every spirit, but try the spirits whether they are of God: because many false prophets are gone out into the world.

So "the antichrist" has been here all along? If so, then why has he waited so long to reveal himself as the one true god to all of man? I don't believe he has been here all along. JMO

Galations 5: 1. Stand fast therefore in the liberty wherewith Christ has made us free, and be not entangled again with the yoke of bondage.

The yoke of bondage is the law. Christ fulfilled the law to save all of mankind. You and I cannot keep the law. It says that in all of scripture. If you think you are getting into Heaven cause of how greatly you keep the law, then it isn't the same Heaven that Jesus talks about. How awful it would be if we had to be in a heaven that was full of people who bragged all day on how good they were on earth and that is how they are in Heaven. It is the complete opposite. No one will be able to boast about how good they were down here.

Eric,

Well-spoken concerning LAW of God NOT being abolished!

Specific ordinances from the Law were fulfilled and no longer needed, not the entire Law (Hebrews ch. 9, Ephesians 2:15, Colossians 2:14).

It was only certain ordinances that were taken out of the way ( 1 Corinthians 11:2).

The Law of BLOOD SACRIFICE (circumcision, Passover lamb, goat of atonement, etc.) has been taken out of the way, and the right to worship in the Temple in Jerusalem has been replaced by we who make up the body of Christ. We are His Temple.

I don't understand how people say that the Law is no longer needed.

We are all under the 10 Commandments.

Everyone that sins needs the Lawthat's everybody, every day.

Acts ch. 15 did simplify the requirements for the Gentiles. BUT, that was for NEW Gentile converts and was the BASICS of what they were to follow. The more they understood, the more they could handle.

Acts 15:19-20 "WE TROUBLE NOT THEM, which from among the Gentiles are turned to God: But that we write unto them, that they abstain from pollutions of idols, and from fornication, and from things strangled, and from blood."

The basics, until they come up to speed.

Everybody that uses Colossians 2:16-17 as their belief that the Law is abolished should understand that this also concerned those that were newly converted GENTILES.

That is why Paul says "Let no man therefore judge you"

We are not the judge.

If you read Acts 15, the disciples actually simplified the requirements of the Gentile converts. Paul himself upheld the Law of God, the 10 commandments. The decalogue was and will never change, they were written by God himself and He never changes. Without Law there is no sin. Without sin Christ died in vain

Christ preached the gospel of Grace. Even though I am a sinner, through Christ's death I am declared righteous. The death of a lamb signified the death of Christ, Col 2:16,17. And that is why when Christ died, being the ultimate sacrifice, there was no need of another. Mosaic laws dictated that if you sin a lamb had to be sacrificed and this is what Christ nailed on the cross Col 2:14

That is what Jesus told them to do. But other then those 2 or 3 examples of going to the gentiles, the disciples stayed within the nation of Israel still preaching the gospel of the Kingdom to the Jewish people. The few that did go around to where Paul was in gentile nations, they went in their and was telling Paul's converts that they had to follow the law still.

The disciples were still preaching the gospel of the Kingdom. And Paul was preaching the gospel of Grace. 2 different gospels in time. Cause up until Christ came and died on the cross for all of us, it was the gospel of the Kingdom. But after His resurrection, it was the gospel of Grace.

The restrainer was the Roman empire. That is why Paul in the letter does not say it but when he was with them in person, he did tell them who it was, read verse 5. And who came after the Roman empire? Who opposes the doctrine of God on earth and declares to have authority even over the Word of God, who declares to forgive sins when they are confessed to him, when only God can forgive our sins. Google the name Vicar of Christ and you will know.

First, the apostles preached to the gentiles, one was Philip with the Ethiopian Eunuch and he did baptise him, Acts 8:26-40. Second Peter to the centurion named Cornelius and his family and baptised them. Peter had the vision with the unclean foods and that represented the gentiles, Acts 10:1-11:18 and also Acts 15:7. The disciples held a meeting in regards to how gentile converts were to live their lives after conversion because of the Judaizers read the whole of Acts 15 and you will see this and stress on verse 23 where the letter reads to be from the apostles to the gentiles. Also read about the Rabbinic Curse. Christ sent His disciples to the world to preach and baptise, Matt 28:18-20.

(Saul) who was called Paul by Jesus; was a chosen vessel to preach TO THE GENTILES. That was his turf, although he did travel to meet with Peter.

Acts 9:15. (Red letters)

But the Lord said unto him, Go thy way: for he is a chosen vessel unto me, to bear my name before the Gentiles, and kings, and the children of Israel:

For I will shew him how great things he must suffer for my name's sake.

If you will Google the Apostles ministry paths and where they met their deaths; they did quite a lot of traveling.

Paul was sent to the Gentiles. Maps of his ministry travels are awesome considering no public transportation.

I'm an old street minister. GO YE means much more than you've imagined.

"Into all the world" can mean any continent or country. Or it can mean: your neighborhood, your city, your state. It can happen anywhere.

Make it a rule to stand on Public Right Of Way (public sidewalks; not business sidewalks)

Kags is right the Holy Spirit is not the restrainer who leaves earth. Otherwise no one would be saved and no one would preach via the Holy Spirit. The resurrection is at the end of the tribulation for those without itching ears.

Paul in 1 Corinthians 15:52 - In a moment, in the twinkling of an eye, at the last trump: for the trumpet shall sound, and the dead shall be raised incorruptible, and we shall be changed.

We are changed at the LAST TRUMP and where is this found?

In REVELATION, the LAST BOOK of the Bible there are 7 trumps and the 7th trump is the LAST ONE and is at the end of the tribulation. there is not a 7th last trump prior to the tribulation.

there is not a last trump prior to the tribulation. Trump and Trumpet mean the same thing.

George, yet 100% accurate.

Some believe it is the Holy Spirit that is the restrainer. But the Holy Spirit has always been here. And He will be here during the tribulation. How else will the 144,000 Jewish believers preach the gospel of the Kingdom during it? And many will believe in that day. The restrainer is the body of Christ ( the church ). God will not pour out His judgement and wrath on His body of believers. It is sad that people think that He will. When He has already showed that He won't with Noah and Lot. Was Lot a righteous man? Yes, because he believed in God. That was his righteousness and that is why God saved him from his judgement on Sodom. Learn from the past

Chris, the rapture is not Christ coming to the earth. We will meet Him in the air. He does not come down and touch the earth. And the tribulation is the wrath and judgement of God on the earth. Believers are taken away before this cause God will not pour out his wrath of judgement on his body of believers.

Paul told us to comfort one another with these words. How is it comforting to know that we are going to be going thru the judgement of God during the tribulation? That is a contradictory of scripture if you believe that.

John Madden, If the Holy Spirit lives inside of every believer, then how can the Holy Spirit leave to let the antichrist come and do his business? The body of Christ is the restrainer. God will not pour out his wrath on His body of believers. Did he pour out his judgement on Noah? Or on sinful Lot? Nope

It saddens me to see that people think that God is going to pour out His wrath and judgement on his believers. When He has shown us that He won't do that. Think about it

So who is the restrainer that keeps the antichrist from coming right now? Cause the antichrist would have been here all along if it wasn't for the restrainer that God has put on the earth. So who is the restrainer?

This is how I read it as well. The restrainer is the body of Christ. God will not pour out his wrath on his body of believers. Did God pour out his wrath on Lot? Did He pour it out on Noah? No in both cases. Learn from His past judgements.

The apostles did not go to the whole world and preach. Only Paul preached to the gentiles. He is the apostle to the gentiles. The Jews didn't want anything to do with the gentiles. So your answer is very wrong. The tribulation is the 70th week of Danial. No mistaking it

I personally believe the virus is real, but that there's a gross overreaction. It's a disproportionate reaction to the threat. Other communicable diseases that killed more in the past were mostly ignored by the media in comparison to this. They were also ignored by governors. I think there are political reasons for the media to play it up so much and believe they are mostly pushing lies and political propaganda.

If people genuinely cared about saving lives and the well being of citizens then number 1 would be immediately stop murdering babies. Today 3,500 babies were legally murdered in the US. What about their right to choose, their rights to grow up, to love, and be loved. What about the loving parents who could have adopted them, but instead they butchered them. It's many times worse than the holocaust and no one seems to care.

Also, smoking kills up to half a million people in the US every year and no one seems to care. Drugs and alcohol kill even more. If someone calls the Wuhan virus a pandemic, then that is absolutely nothing compared to the real threats and top causes of death. Obesity is another one. 2/3 of Americans overweight and its an epidemic and out of control. Huge number of deaths from it, like heart disease, cancer, etc. But I don't see cultural change over that either. These 3 things mentioned are significantly more life threatening than the virus from china.

How have you determined that this Virus is a fake? It's good & valuable when someone shares something that they have learned, but it has to be authenticated. If on spiritual matters, then we need to find evidence in God's Word; if on earthly matters, then we need evidence here also.

In the legal system, as with God's system, evidence has to be given to prove the guilt (or, innocence) of that person. If there's no evidence, the case is thrown out of court. If I can prove to God that I'm without sin, then God can't charge me for it & has to punish me. But I've tried, but everywhere I look inside me, I find that God is right about my sinful condition.

So, if you believe that the evidence shown about the Virus' existence is all made up, then what is your evidence to disprove that? I mean, you could be right in your declaration, but proof is required.

The beginning of the end started with this fake virus, billions of people are being deceived by it, will people be deceived when the vaccine appears?!

And there was a day when his sons and his daughters were eating and drinking wine in their eldest brother's house:

14And there came a messenger unto Job, and said, The oxen were plowing, and the asses feeding beside them:

15And the Sabeans fell upon them, and took them away; yea, they have slain the servants with the edge of the sword; and I only am escaped alone to tell thee.

16While he was yet speaking, there came also another, and said, The fire of God is fallen from heaven, and hath burned up the sheep, and the servants, and consumed them; and I only am escaped alone to tell thee.

17While he was yet speaking, there came also another, and said, The Chaldeans made out three bands, and fell upon the camels, and have carried them away, yea, and slain the servants with the edge of the sword; and I only am escaped alone to tell thee.

18While he was yet speaking, there came also another, and said, Thy sons and thy daughters were eating and drinking wine in their eldest brother's house:

19And, behold, there came a great wind from the wilderness, and smote the four corners of the house, and it fell upon the young men, and they are dead; and I only am escaped alone to tell thee.

I believe you need to read the book of Job again. Satan has killed people, with the permission of God.

I believe the lie has begun with this virus the mask wearing the 6 food distancing its like what is wrong with you? its a lie did you hear that the CIA use this against the enemies of the state and of course they consider us all enemies of the state they are taking your DNA when testing,,,,