2 Timothy Chapter 3 Discussion Page 3

Hi Brother Jon.

2 Timothy 3:16-17. All scripture is given by inspiration of God, and is profitable for doctrine, for reproof, for correction, for instruction in righteousness:

That the man of God may be perfect, throughly furnished unto all good works.

I believe we can trust Godly wisdom and being led by the spirit above psychology or philosophy or any other worldly wisdom. I believe as we grow in the spirit we become wiser in the Lord and he guides our foot steps in our spiritual walk and change our desires in the secular as well.

If psychology or philosophy have something positive for us I believe God will reveal that to us by his spirit that dwells in us. We do know God gives us a spirit of discernment.

1 Corinthians 12:10. To another the working of miracles; to another prophecy; to another "discerning of spirits;" to another divers kinds of tongues; to another the interpretation of tongues:

And we know that "ALL THINGS" work together for good to them that love God, to them who are the called according to his purpose.

God bless.

Hi Dan, thanks for your comments. Please know that my response is given in love with my only intention to glorify the Lord.

I understand what you are saying about not turning down service providers based on if they are believers or not, I certainly would not turn down bypass surgery or roof repair because the provider was not a believer; however, those services are quite different than "spiritual" or "mind" service providers. Heart surgery or roof repair is not doctrine or the word of God and has nothing to do with salvation or living a Godly life or solving behavioral (heart) problems ( Jeremiah 17:9, Mark 7:20-23).

When it comes to obeying the Lord and following His word, psychology just seems to be a secular (and ungodly) look at behavior. It is an attempt to explain why we do things and what the solution is without referring to God and His word. Psychology is an invention from worldly men who denied Jesus Christ (people like Freud, Wundt, Jung, Skinner, etc). Some psychologists even merge the word of God and secular theory which seems unbiblical to me (we are to be set apart from this world - John 15:19, Romans 12:1-3, 1 John 2:15-17).

I guess what I am really asking is - to put it how you were phrasing it - if someone was 'sick' (spiritually) why would they go to a secular physician (psychologist) and not a spiritual physician (Jesus)? We even have a behavioral manual (the Word). The bible seems to continually say that the Lord and His word are sufficient, exactly what we need and that we should avoid the wisdom of men ( 2 Timothy 2:15-16, 2 Timothy 3:16, 1 Peter 2:25, Hebrews 4:14-16, Isaiah 55:7-9). 1 Corinthians 2:11-16. When we become a Christian, we have the mind of Christ, which is spiritual - not worldly. Jesus is our counselor ( Isaiah 9:6) and he knows us ( John 2:25).

It seems that as a Christian we either believe that the word of God is sufficient for all spiritual problems or we don't.

BTW - this is not for me, it involves a family member.

Hi Jon,

In addition to prayer, God also wants us to help ourselves. Here's some scripture for you.

Colossians 4:14 Luke, the beloved physician, and Demas, greet you.

Luke 4:23 And he said unto them, Ye will surely say unto me this proverb, Physician, heal thyself: whatsoever we have heard done in Capernaum, do also here in thy country.

Jeremiah 8:22 Is there no balm in Gilead; is there no physician there? why then is not the health of the daughter of my people recovered?

Luke 5:31 And Jesus answering said unto them, They that are whole need not a physician; but they that are sick.

Matthew 9:12 But when Jesus heard that, he said unto them, They that be whole need not a physician, but they that are sick.

Mark 2:17 When Jesus heard it, he saith unto them, They that are whole have no need of the physician, but they that are sick: I came not to call the righteous, but sinners to repent

God provides mankind with gifted minds in a multitude of various fields, including Medicine, Pharmacy, and other varied fields including psychology: the science or study of the mind and behavior. God provides us with these people that can help and cure, or at least help us to manage our health, both physically and mentally.

A wise person will not rule out a service provider based on their religious belief or lack of. That's like turning down emergency bypass heart surgery because the doctor might be an unbeliever. Could be the greatest heart surgeon of all time, but not doing it. Can't let you fix the hole in my roof because you're not a christian.

Be wise, and humble and look at all your options, including prayer.

God Bless.

Dear Jon,

I think your definition of the word psychology in your mind is different than my definition. To me it is about how we think. It also sounds like you view it as conflicting with submitting God, but I still don't understand this point. I assume you work- how do you know what you do is of God and not man? I assume you learn things, like reading things: how do you know that's of God and not of man. How do you know that posting here is of God and not of man?

You disagreed that the Bible used positive thinking and you said it was invented later by a man. But did you actually read the verses I shared? I thought you wanted to see Bible verses and I spent time trying to help you. If you didn't even take a second to hover over to read them that would make me sad, because people like me and others who regularly visit this site are trying to help and we generously offer our time to share scripture.

So, I will post the same verse again so this time you see it.

Philippians 4:6-8 - the last verse is "Finally, brethren, whatsoever things are true, whatsoever things are honest, whatsoever things are just, whatsoever things are pure, whatsoever things are lovely, whatsoever things are of good report; if there be any virtue, and if there be any praise, think on these things."

It says to think of good things. Do you agree with this verse? Do you agree that thinking of good things is what God wants us to do? If so, then you believe positive thinking is good, right? This comes direct from the Bible. God has shared much wisdom from us through His Word. I don't see how following His Word is somehow bad because you associate it with a "psychology" that conflicts with God. Thinking positive thoughts IS what God asked us to do, so why would I disagree with that?

You seemed to conflate 'faith' and 'trust' with thinking. These are separate things.

Have you also read these?

Link

Hello Mishael, thank you for your comments. I am glad you found the Lord. Praise God. Sounds like you went through a lot. Glad you look to God's word for your answers, I think it is sufficient for all problems/solutions. Forgiveness is of utmost importance. Matthew 6:14-15.

I don't think there are any biblical references to 'forgiving yourself' though. 2 Corinthians 7:10. 1 John 1:9. God forgives us. We repent of our sins with grief and Godly sorrow and place our faith in Jesus. Mark 1:15. Mark 6:12.

Prayer is absolutely critical, I agree.

He will speak to us through His word. Romans 6:1-4.

Thanks again, God bless you and Adam for your responses.

Thanks for your response Adam, it is insightful and thoughtful. I have a few disagreements though. In regards to the definition - isn't our behavior influenced by either a submission to God or a submission to our flesh? James 4:7. Romans 8:6-8. I have yet to find a psychological theory about behavior that refers to God's word & sin and not worldly/secular explanations that are unbiblical. Doesn't it matter that psychology was heralded by people like Wundt, Freud, Jung, Skinner - all people who denied the Lordship of Jesus and were unbelievers? Matthew 9:17-18.

Positive thinking was started by Phineas Quimby who hypnotized people. He believed that the body was a reflection of the mind and all illnesses were a result of false beliefs. He had conversations with Mary Baker Eddy (Christian Science founder) and influenced her to believe that 'right thinking' in accordance with scripture could cure any ailment. I don't think that 'positive thinking' can be aligned with the word of God.

Philippians 4 says 'by prayer and supplication with thanksgiving', not by 'positive thinking'. I believe Matthew 6:34 is in relation to submitting to God and trusting in Him, something atheists do not do. It was not meant to just say "don't worry about tomorrow" (which would be worldly wisdom) but "trust in the Lord" which is Godly wisdom. I would argue that psychology says "trust in yourself" and the bible says "deny yourself", two viewpoints which are incompatible.

I would say counseling is good as long as it is biblical. Shouldn't everything center around the Lord and His word? If you talk to a counselor and they do not point you to the bible and Godly wisdom, the only other option is they are pointing you towards worldly wisdom. The bible says we have a heart issue, not a mental issue. Jeremiah 17:9-10.

1 Corinthians 1:18-25. Acts 17:10-12. I think everything needs to be tested against scripture.

Thanks for the discussion Adam, I appreciate you.

It's big business for sure, but to those who are beat up by life, psychology is a way to help us find out why we are upset or sad. I saw one when I was 17. I discovered I was normal. I just needed to confront issues instead of bury them. Very common problem.

Once I found Jesus, I learned that if I tell Him about things I was confused or ashamed about;

He would comfort me and then show me places in the Bible that would help me again, to see that I'm normal. But I could handle things differently.

Blaming is a sure sign that there's a sin issue. Me or someone else. I can't make others change, but I can change how I feel about issues.

FORGIVING myself and others, opens the door to Communication. Just get it out. Say how you feel. Forgiving takes out the sting that hurts so much.

If we have a 6 pack of soda pop, we take them out One At A Time. Problems are sorta like that.

Problem number one, sometimes eliminates the other 5.

Understanding, from reading stories in the Bible, we learn how to do things God's way, instead of how we try to fix it.

The greatest thing you have is your prayer life. Prayer is Communication. Back and forth. God WANTS to be a part of that. If we aren't talking things over with Jesus, there is no way for us to understand each other. Make Him your best friend.

Jesus was a teenager once. He absolutely knows how you are feeling. He is the SON OF MAN. He's all God, and He's all human. He's an expert on all ages.

Come back here anytime and we will do our best to be helpful and kind.

Mishael

Hi Jon,

Thanks for explaining your question a bit more. This is an interesting question I haven't heard before and I'll gladly share my opinion. I personally do not see much scripture support against what you call psychology. So to start I looked up a definition of 'psychology' and Cambridge dictionary says: "the scientific study of the way the human mind works and how it influences behaviour, or the influence of a particular person's character on their behaviour:"

My understanding is it is just studying our mind and how we think. In a counseling session we discuss our thoughts/feelings/thinking and someone can sometimes help see any negative patterns and can sometimes help someone. There is pastoral counseling that is often the same thing. It's my belief that the Bible supports positive psychology concepts like positive thinking, for instance Philippians 4:6-8. It also challenges us to not be anxious, to take each day one at a time: Matthew 6:34. These are practical psychological wisdom that even atheists usually agree with, but this wisdom came from God.

My view of psychology is something everyone already does- such as talking to teach other. Fellowship is Biblical and is also therapeutic- not much different than talking with a counselor in my opinion. Also education and learning is ok, and that is also done in church. Challenging ourselves is also a positive thing. The Bible is full of personal challenges, and much of them is mental or psychological, such as focusing on following and emulating Jesus and not on sin.

What I think you did is interpret 1 Cor 3:5 as to avoid all wisdom from man. But it says don't put your "faith" in them. It doesn't say don't go to school, college, to not learn anything, to not ever be counseled, to not even talk to your parents, or anybody who says anything personal. So, my interpretation of this verse is probably different than yours and I see no problem with psychology. God bless...

Jon Wisdom of men is World Wisdom, Wisdom of God is action inspired by the spirit.

Jon The things your concerned about in so called psychology which is basically science of the mind, when a person believes and gets born again and puts on the scriptures which is putting on the mind of Christ he becomes a new creation in Christ. 2 Timothy 3:14-17 is explaining the purpose and profit of the scriptures so that the man of God may be perfect to do good works. Also look at 2 Peter 1:3-10. We put on a new nature not possible if not born again and walking by the spirit.

Hi Adam, I am mainly referring to verse 16 "All scripture is given by inspiration of God, and is profitable for doctrine, for reproof, for correction, for instruction in righteousness". This seems to say that the word of God is sufficient for our walk with the Lord and for our issues/problems. The other verses I mentioned all place the word of God over the wisdom of men. Does not psychology count as the wisdom of men? This is how I am reading these scriptures, I am wanting to know if I am way off base or if I am getting this right because some of my family members seem to be okay with psychology and it does not seem right to me. Also, Jeremiah 17:9 says the heart is deceitful and wicked. Sounds like a sin issue, not a personality disorder or a psychological problem. I hope that helps make my question clearer.

Hi Jon, I don't comprehend your question yet about 2 Timothy 3:13-17 and psychology. Perhaps you can break it down further. What verse specifically and what phrase in that verse do you think sounds against psychology?

2 Timothy 3:13-17. Does this relate to things like 'Christian' psychologists or psychology in general? Things like the DSM or personality disorders, etc. Isn't God's word sufficient? Psychology is rooted in the wisdom of man (and from those who denied Christ no less like Freud and Jung) so why should we listen to them when we have the word of God? 1 Corinthians 2:5, Proverbs 14:12, Proverbs 16:25, 2 Timothy 4:1-4, 1 John 2:15-17, Hebrews 4:12. Are these not related to 2 Timothy 3:13-17? Do we need to be 'diagnosed'? Are psychology and God's word compatible? If they are I would like to see some scripture that points to this (I know the Bible will not say 'psychology' specifically). This is important to me and my family as it is seeping in at the moment and I want to approach this biblically.

I just couldn't remember. That is it, thank you. I read a chapter a day. Sometimes more. If I have something happening. My phone bible app gives me the verse of the day. It talks about what is happening.

Every day I say the serenity prayer and the lords prayer

Every night

I say now I lay my down to sleep

I die before I wake I pray the lord my soul to take

The I pray for all that don't know they need God

I also pray for everyone on the prayer list and occasionally I add people

It is working wonders I am just saying God bless you and yours thank you

Hello William. Others here may have other suggestions for you, but the only Scripture that comes to mind is in Proverbs 22:6: "Train up a child in the way he should go: and when he is old, he will not depart from it."

Some people use this verse to support training up children in the ways of the Lord, but we do sometimes hear of those same children, when older, choosing to no longer follow the Lord, preferring the offerings of the world. But this is not the sole intent of this Scripture. It speaks about training or instructing a child while they are still young, impressionable, teachable, to be guided in all facets of life: in virtue, spiritual matters, education, physical pursuits, & in accordance with the child's propensities & interests - that the child might be well-formed early in life, so that those qualities, once imparted through parental love, may develop bringing forth an adult who lives his life in accordance with his childhood training.

It was good to read that your health is better & indeed, as you read from God's Word & bring all your mattes & concerns before Him in prayer, He will sustain you & given you His Joy & Peace, that will even surmount any weaknesses in life. Keep resting in Him & trusting Him for all your needs, brother.

People who are raised a certain way my Bible says are not going to change their ways

So prayers please

To my niece

Thanks to God. I no longer have asthma.

Am not taking medication and am a 100% independent.

I have no worries

Just saying

The verse says a person being raised a certain way that they are not subject to change with age.

Going by the Bible we are in the end.

Talking to my niece about other niece's and nephew's. She is familiar with that verse I was looking for. She said

They know what is right that they choose to live wrong.

She don't study king James

Her bible is New English Standard not my choice I'm thankful she found religion.

I now realize that she is not familiar with the king James verse. She said she is, then she would realize why they won't change. To me she is judging, I don't know other bibles after what I have learned. King James is correct. And from what I have experienced we are in the last 7 years. I still have some brain injury issues and am not walking. I will walk in heaven.

Like I said I am doing so good because of God. I don't do drama or like to argue. She is in my prayers

Hi William which specific verse are you referring to, it will help us both.

I understand that I am beyond blessed I was just wondering what verse that was.

Thank you

God bless you and yours

William Through Jesus Christ almost any of mans condition can be changed by believing His Word. Believings the Key to heaven and Jesus Christ is the Door and Great Shepherd and He Healer. John 3:16.

I have had brain injury. I am wondering what chapter and verse that says the way someone is raised they are not subject to change?

I don't , which is why I asked "what is inneray " . It wasn't a rhetorical question , I really don't know what it is .

Jesus is the Son of God .

How do you define inerray!

This is not in response to Timothy 3:12 it is about Genesis 1:1 and 1:2 thank you.

Inerray ? What is that please ?

Gods word says in the book of Psalms that above all Gods created works sun moon stars planets us he magnified His word above all of it, thats how perfect Gods Word is as it was originally given remember every jot and tittle wiil be done and what God has said will happen will happen thats why Gods word also says that God is not a man that He should lie and in Romans all men lie and fall short of the Glory of God. Just some food for thought, have an inspired day. P.S. If as some would say that the Bible is not Infallably Gods word than our belief system and our Total redemption and forgiveness is at best in question or not true, since I'm a born again believer and have partaken of several miracles in my life not the least is being born again and receiving power from on High I.E. Holy spirit then, the problem is never with the Giver God its with the recipient man whether he chooses to believe Gods Word or not. P.S. Same Problem in Eden God Said Thall Shalt surely Die serpent said No your not. Thats always the choice either what Gods word says or what men say, sometimes inspired by wrong source. Remember the only perfect man that ever walked perfectly with God Is our Lord and Saviour Jesus Christ. Amen

Jesus is the Bible...the Word of God.

John 1

1 In the beginning was the Word, and the Word was with God, and the Word was God.

2 The same was in the beginning with God.

3 All things were made by him; and without him was not any thing made that was made.

4 In him was life; and the life was the light of men.

5 And the light shineth in darkness; and the darkness comprehended it not.

If you cannot accept who Jesus is, then you are in the darkness.

Read John chapter 3. Ask Jesus to come into your heart.

Biblical inerray. belief that scripture is literal sets up idol worship.

The bible itself becomes a thing, absolute. A thing. just as a statue of a saint or any other idol.if yo believe in biblical inerrancy, you are an idol worshipper.

lastly, act only with altrustic love.

We are in the end times be cautious

Timothy sims up the given times