All Discussion PAGE 1029

Psalm 83

Psalm 83 is referred to by some as a prophetic war among 10 nations that may occur at the very start of the Tribulation. Careful analysis doesn't indicate any of the outer nations which are in the Ezekiel 38 war from Israel as a center. Technically; there is no mention of an offensive battle strategy either. We certainly can see the attitude of many of the nations who have attempted to wipe out Israel since its inception in 1948; specifically as verse 4 indicates removing them as a nation. This would also differentiate the economic incentives in Ezekiel 38 for the move which signifies a plunder; and also we note at that time Israel is said to have unwalled villages ( Ezekiel 38:11). Verse 12 is perhaps the clearest indication for these nations who have the Dome of the Rock as a focal point of contention to get ownership.

The names that are listed are surrounding areas; of which I will not elaborate on here. It does seem that the end of the Psalm shows that the Lord will be known after the event as is the same concept with the Ezekiel 38 destruction. Overall; the whole thing may be different campaigns in the whole scope of world war that leads to Armageddon. We need to keep in mind that there will be certain things which Antichrist uses to galvanize nations; and initially he will form alliances that will start to fight each other; and in the end of course will turn to fight against Christ himself; as well as turning on themselves. This is all of course in God's hands and he will accomplish His purposes.

The crafty counsel in verse 3 reminds us of Daniel 8:25 as to the policy of "craft" that the Antichrist uses; and indeed it is likely that these confederate of nations (v. 5) will be involved in that with both "dividing the land for gain" with economic incentives ( Daniel 11:39) as well as the involvement in the occult whith Antichrist practices ( Dan. 8:23) which could perhaps be one of the mystical forms of Islam or New Age religion.

please pray for me and my family today

who is pagani peopl?

who is told joshua sent two man home of Ahab?

question

who is angel follwing israel was in desert?

2. who is told you?

3.who is Judah?

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The apostle revealed to the Corinthians a Mystery (that which was unknown to men before - now revealed: 1 Corinthians 15:51). As was the mystery in Romans 11:25 (that Israel's blindness in part was for the fullness of the Gentiles salvation); in Ephesians 1:9,10 (God's Will that He would bring together to be one, all who are in Christ); Ephesians 5:32 (as husband & wife are one flesh, so is the union of Christ & His Church); Colossians 1:26,27; & many other examples. All indicating that what was revealed to the Corinthians in 1 Corinthians 15:51 was unknown before, which Paul was revealing now: that the believer's death was not a requirement for the resurrection (which was once believed), but that those who are alive at Jesus' Coming will also rise with the dead, to be with Him.

The one in Christ won't face the Wrath of God that was meant for those who spurned His Love shown in Christ, and that both those who have died in Christ & are alive in Him will together be taken away, it seems clear that the Rapture must happen before the Great Tribulation. But if one believes that the Great Tribulation is not God's Anger poured out, then it could well be believed that Christians living at that time will suffer (or, in some way protected) from the devastation that is to take place. If I take the Scriptures together, I cannot subscribe to a post-tribulation Rapture.

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Thanks Jimbob for sharing what you did, and yes, I do believe in a pre-trib Rapture. I would ascertain from your comments that you too believe that there will be a 'catching away', a rapture if you will, but you find it taking place after the (Great) Tribulation ( Matthew 24:21) from the verses you cited in the same chapter.

If I had only this discourse in Matthew to go on, then I could well agree with you, as it clearly shows the sequence of events in answer to the disciples questions (with an emphasis on the tribulation the Jews would go through when Rome ransacked Jerusalem in 70 AD). The matters that indicate to me that the rapture & the second coming of Jesus are two events, are found in the meaning of the 'Great Tribulation & the Mystery'.

The Great Tribulation does not only mean that Israel, & by extension the world, will suffer greatly ("as was not since the beginning of the world to this time, nor ever shall be"), but the reason for it is because of the great Judgement of God against sinful men at the Day of the Lord. Just as what happened to the world in Noah's day, & to Sodom & Gomorrah, so God's Anger will also be poured out at His appointed time. And yet, His people 'are not appointed to His Wrath, but to obtain salvation by our Lord Jesus Christ'; Paul had just finished writing about the Rapture in the previous chapter ( 1 Thessalonians 4:15-17 & wrote this in 1 Thessalonians 5:9). The Great Tribulation (of God's Wrath) is judgement against unbelievers - the believers' sins were judged at the Cross & those in Christ are declared "not guilty", or 'justified'. Should we then be judged again? For what purpose?

Please pray for financial stability for me for me to be out of debt and for me to focus on Jesus most of all.

I've been more focused on the blessings God has given me rather than Him, please pray that I would sell out for Jesus, and become zealous for Him

Please also pray for my mom, her sciatica pain has been bothering her really bad

Thank you brothers/sisters, I'm praying for you

Jesse I am sorry, but I have to be honest with you, that was confusing. You are letting a theory cause you confusion, it's not Biblical. If you see Mt.24 as prophecy for the Lastdays, and read it as just that, prophecy It will prefectly tell you what that time period will be like, what people will be like, and the things that will take place just before the great tribulation starts. That time period is called the beginning of sorrows, I believe we are in it now. And then After the tribulation the Son of man comes in the clouds to gather His church, which is His elect. The elect are not Jews, and the tribes that mourn, will be mourning because they are left on the earth, and they know the wrath of God is about to be poured out on them. Read (Jn.3:36) The word (tribes) is #5443; it means an offshoot, i.e. (race) or clan, kindred. It means all the (races), it does not mean Jews. Believers will be taken and non-believers left, one shall be taken and the other left. Jesse you said the actual event of Jesus coming in the clouds is recorded in Rev.19:11-16, and you said He comes with power and great glory in Rev.19. What you are saying is twisting the 2 events into one. In Rev.19:11-16 It says nothing about coming in the clouds, and it says nothing about gathering together anybody, and it says nothing about Him coming with power and great glory. Rev.19:11-16 is when Jesus ((comes to the earth)) to reign 1000 years. He will leave the marriage supper of the Lamb and come to the earth riding a white horse to judge and make war. That will start the millennium. Mt.24:29-31 Is when He comes in the clouds with power and great glory, and He gathers together His elect, while True Believers, the elect are caught up to meet Jesus in the air, then they will be taken to the marriage supper of the Lamb in heaven while the wrath of God is poured on the disobedient non-believers left on the earth. Read (Jn.3:36) I pray for God to open your eyes to this truth Jesse.

11Thus saith the LORD, the Holy One of Israel, and his Maker, Ask me of things to come concerning my sons, and concerning the work of my hands command ye me.

I don't understand this verse. Jah asks man to command him

Please pray for my son Robert and mom to get along and me . Peace to be in our home And the Holy spirit to be strong in us and are home and for unspoken thank you

Jesse There are too many holes in the pre-tribulation rapture theory for it to be in alignment with the Word of God. It's like a puzzle with pieces mixed up with another puzzle, the pieces don't fit, and you can't make them fit. (If we look at the verses in context) then the pre-tribulation rapture is only a theory. You said the elect is a term referring to the Jews, you said it's a special word brought over from the Old Testament as a title for the Jewish people. Jesse the word elect is only in the Old Testament 4 times, and all 4 are in the book of Isaish. I don't see either of them saying anything about the Jewish people. Here's 1 of them again. Isa. 45:4 For Jacob my servant's sake, and ((Israel mine elect)) I have even (called thee) by thy name: I have surnamed thee, though thou hast not known me. (This verse is the LORD speaking!!) He is calling His elect Israel, not Jews. Here's the word Israel in Hebrew, and Greek. (1st. in Hebrew #3478; it means he will rule (as) God, a symbolic name of Jacob, also (typically) of his posterity. Now the word Israel in Greek #2474; it means the adopted name of Jacob including his descendants. God said ISRAEL MINE ELECT, Israel today are his descendants, which are the 12 tribes of Israel. They are those 144,000 servants of God who are sealed in Rev.Ch.7, 12,000 from each tribe. Jesse Gods elect are not the Jews. We have to let the Word of God be our final authority. Here's another one Isa.42:1 Behold my servant, whom I uphold; ((mine elect)), in whom my soul delighteth; I have put my spirit upon him: he shall bring judgment to the Gentiles. (I don't think God is talking about putting His spirit upon the Jews who took part in crucifying Jesus Christ, and don't believe Jesus is the Son of God today. I don't think Gods soul delighteth in the Jews. Also the Jews are not going to bring judgment to the Gentiles. Israels posterity, his descendants are Gods elect. It is written Jesse. I think you made a typo on Rev.11 Jesse.

It's odd how people claim to follow Jesus, but don't want to obey Jesus. It's like they want to be lazy, worldly and enjoy committing unlimited sin without any regrets, then they also want all the benefits of following Jesus, like salvation. Ever know a freeloader who only shows up when something is free, but never actually does anything productive. There are so many warnings Jesus gave about this exact scenario. Read the parables. Paul wasn't exactly relaxing and enjoying sin either, but was trying to be a "slave" to righteousness. He was "running the race". Christians are divided on this point. What side are you on? Is your greatest fear that you might accidentally obey God more than you actually needed to? Or is your fear of not being allowed into heaven? The fact is most will go to hell. The fact is that it takes effort to follow Jesus. A Christian is an active follower who is going somewhere- following the steps of Jesus. The fact is you might even be persecuted for your walk, maybe even from so-called Christians. Satan tries to deceive even Christians from thinking things are opposite of what they really are. God bless everyone and pray for wisdom. I read some of these comments and is quite shocking what I see sometimes, people have been deceived by the devil into thinking they can do whatever they want with no consequence and that obeying is bad and that disobeying is good. So clever is the deception, but one day every knee will bow and those with high pride will fall. Matthew 7:21

Jimbob, Yes I am aware of that verse in Corinthians, yet Jesus indeed had a physical body and said that "a spirit does not have flesh and bones" like He did when He presented Himself to Thomas. So perhaps there is more to this than both you and I know.

I know that the angels have spiritual or celestial bodies, but man was made with a physical body and that is what Jesus took upon Himself as God the Son, and He did rise bodily. He ate and drank with the apostles and could be physically touched. Scripture does not say that He divested Himself of this physical body that was raised and glorified. So, I think that our resurrection and glorification is perhaps something we must wait till it happens to truly know.

Have a good evening. Going off to bed soon.

(Part 3)

But then Satan wanted permission to attack his health. And his body broke out in boils. And he wound up sitting out in the garbage dump scraping these boils with pieces of pottery that was out at the garbage dump.



And his friends were walking by and shaking their heads saying "Wow, the richest man in the area, so blessed. Now look at him." In fact, Job's wife yelled through the fence "Just curse God and die." Get it over with, you know? And some people think this is why Satan didn't attack his wife, because she was a good tool, saying just curse God and die.



You see, Satan thinks that we are too attached to too many things in this world, and if he gets permission to touch those things, that we're going to get mad at God.

So be careful. We're being scouted. And Satan only wants to attack us in the areas that he knows that we have problems with. "Oh, that person means a lot to you? That car means a lot to you? That house means a lot to you? Well, let's see what we can do about that!"

And he tries to get you to curse God to His face because of your loss of worldly goods.

Hopefully this is of some help!

(Part 2)

Revelation Chapter 12 tells us that when Satan rebelled against God, that he took a third of the angels with him. And those are the demonic spirits that we hear of and know of today.

From the book of Revelation, we know that Satan himself is standing before the throne of God. Satan is the accuser of the brethren. He is not omnipotent, omniscient, nor omnipresent. He's in one place. And the angels that rebelled with him are coming and giving him information. We get that from Job Chapter 1, how Job was scouted by Satan.

And the messengers come and give Satan the information, and then Satan accuses the brethren before God. If you want to know what he accuses, you can read Job Chapters 1 and 2. It's very interesting because Satan's one principle and purpose for what he's doing is permission to attack God's people in a certain way so as to get them to speak against God. He has to get permission. That's all he can do.

So, everything that happens to us, well, we trust the Lord for a while. And then something else happens and it's like "Oh no, well Lord, you can handle this too." And as time goes on, we become bitter and tired. And all Satan wants us to do is speak against God, shake our fist at Him, and tell Him we're not going to cooperate anymore because we don't serve a God that's going to allow this to happen.

That's his purpose. That's what he accuses. He says just let me touch his life and I'll show you that he will curse you to your face. That's what he said about Job. So, it's to turn us away from the Lord. What can happen? In Job's life, his family members were killed, his cattle were stolen, and he still praised the Lord.

Dollyg1,

This is what I can offer on 2 Peter 2:4:

(Part 1)

If God did this, then He's not slumbering, and He's not delaying about His judgment. And this is interesting because it shows a past tense. God did not spare angels that sinned but cast them down to hell. The word for hell is TARTARUS. And it is the Greek version of the term for Hades, where the unseen spirits go, in a compartment waiting for judgment. It's the only place where it's found in the bible.

And so, he says that God in past, He cast these angels who sinned into TARTARUS, and delivered them into chains of darkness.

Now it's the darkness that is the chains. How do you take spirits and put chains on them? It's a phrase that associates locking someone up so that they cannot escape.

And to be reserved for judgment. So, if God did not spare the angels that sinned, how's He going to spare these that sinned?

We will find out more about these angels when we get into Jude Verse 6. It's a one-chapter book. Both Jude and Peter run along the same lines and minister the same thing. And the evidence provides for us that Peter used some of Jude's warnings in order to have a unanimous unifying warning to all the churches.

It's interesting, but in Jude Verse 6, when he talks about these same angels, he says these angels which kept not their first estate, that is, the angels that rebelled against God with Satan, but left their own habitation, He has reserved in everlasting chains under darkness unto the judgment of the great day.

So, these are angels who had sinned and had left their first estate. Many believe that these are the angels that brought on the evil that forced God to bring the flood, the demonic forces that are mentioned in Genesis Chapter 6.

But it is interesting that it is well known amongst the apostles and amongst the early church that there were angels who had sinned.

I dont talk about sin as a thing we can do. We dont want to sin, its so. The biggest sin is too not belive on Him that God have send. Becouse it end in a eternal death!

Ill pray that u all understand what i try to say in Jesus name. Belive for your own good that Jesus Christ is Gods Son. Amen.

Love u all in Christ.

(Part 2)

IG,

He says to give your money to the exchangers, and then at my coming, I should have received mine own with interest. That is what usury means, with interest.

Here is what I believe to be the moral of the story in Matthew 25:28-30:

God has left the Jews with the greatest commission that He could ever give. He left His word. The Jews should be out preaching the Gospel of Jesus Christ to whole world. But instead, Paul says in Romans Chapters 9 through 11 that the Gentiles have been grafted in. The Jews rejected their Messiah. So that's why we were brought in, and we are now preaching the Gospel of Jesus Christ.

But it says, so that they can be jealous because we have their Messiah. And eventually, at His second coming, all the Jews that are alive will be saved. And so basically what He is saying is, I left you with a commission, with an assignment. What did you do with it? I dug a hole and buried it. You will be cast in to outer darkness. That is hell.

IG,

That is an interesting way of looking at it. Please allow me to share my thoughts with you on this parable. I notice that these three servants were each given talents (money), one five talents, another two talents, and the third, one talent. You might already know this, but a talent was a lot of money. It is equal to 6,000 drachmas. I know that might not mean anything, but 6,000 drachmas, which is 20 years wages, it equals 1 TALENTA.

In our money, one talent would be worth $600,000. So, we are going to deal with somebody that gave back 10 talents. So now we've got a $6 million investment here. That is a lot of money.

We see in Matthew 25:18 that it says he that had received one went and digged in the earth and hid his lord's money. As you know, he is the only one who buried what was given to him. So, the one who had one talent, he comes up to the Lord, and he says I knew you that you are a hard man. And here is what are called Modal Participles in the Greek.

This is what He means by a hard man. He says, you reap where you haven't sown. I mean, you don't even put seed in the ground, and you expect something to be there? You are a hard man!

And you gather where thou hast not strawed. Now the word strawed is a good word, isn't it? It means to scatter. It is the word DIASPORA. You gather together where you haven't even scattered anything. That is a hard man!

Matthew 25:25 tells us that this man was afraid. He hid the talent in the earth, and then later comes back with it and says "here you go, here's your talent back!" He didn't lose it, right? I would have said you are fired, but the Lord had some harsher words in Verses 26 and 27.

I mean if you know He is a hard guy, you better get out there and do something with it, right? You don't go hide it and say well, He is a hard man. Yeah, well guess what, the hard man is coming back, and he wants to talk to you.

I need a little more space so I will send a part 2.

Dear IG Totally agree with you, when I think about this I think the example here is a bit unfair. After all, we know that God is righteous. And when we know that Jesus just spoke the way He did, it was Not for everyone to understand. If we compare this with the virgins, the parable is like this ill think: the First had oil in the lamps and got a little extra considering the oil they had bought, (souls) ill think. .

Jesus says to us come and buy gold from Me. Revelation 3:18 Now we know this that the gold we buy is the gateway to the kingdom of God. For eternity. The others who have not settled with lamp oil or with interest. Is not Fit for Gods Kingdom.

It would be nice if more ppl here on the web have some thoughts about this. He died for all, but not evrybody is called. Because they are against Him. Dont want to belive in Him. Ohh i wish that i have bought some gold and white cloth from Lord Jesus.

God bless us all and give us wisdom and understanding in His word. Love u all in Christ.

Please pray for God to help me be sure of my salvation and faith in him and to serve him and like wise for the rest of my house.

Please pray for my houses salvation and for me to have more guidance and faith in God.

GiGi In 1. Cor.15:42-44 (42. So also is the resurrection of the dead. It is sown in corruption; it is raised in incorruption: (43. It is sown in dishonour; it is raised in (glory): it is sown in weakness; it is raised in (power): (44. It is sown a natural body; it is raised a spiritual body. There is a natural body, and there is a spiritual body. These verses tell us the body is sown a natural body, and raised a spiritual body. Also raised in (glory) and raised in (power) Remember in Mt.24:30 . ., and they shall see the Son of man coming in the clouds of heaven with ((power)) and great ((glory)). The rapture is Immediately AFTER the tribulation, and the dead are raised in a spiritual body. 1 Cor.15:50 tells us that flesh and blood cannot inherit the kingdom of God. So if the dead are raised in a spiritual body then our flesh, which cannot enter into the kingdom of God will also have to be a spiritual body. Right? Thank you for replying GiGi.

V.1 "ever" following "whoso" indicates perpetuity of person. Regenerate believers now possess eternal life. The "eth" suffix of "believe" indicates the perpetual tense of the verb. Hence an ongoing person engaged in an ongoing activity which specifically is believing a "that" Jesus- not an "any" Jesus. The "that" Jesus is meticulously and conspicuously the subject of all scripture. There is but one real Jesus who is the Christ. None believe that Jesus is the Chirist but that they are first "born of God". Believing that Jesus is the Christ does Not motivate God to save the man. Believing that that exclusive Jesus the Word of God testifies of indicates that God has generated or if you prefer, regenerated the man. As it is written Salvation (being born of God) is of the (one) Lord.

(Part 2)

Jimbob,

In Acts 1:10-11, when the Lord ascended up into Heaven, the angel said why do you disciples look up into heaven? Why are you gazing up there? This same Jesus will come in like manner. He will come in the clouds. The actual event recorded is in Revelation 19:11-16, the second coming of Christ. He comes with power and great glory. Revelation 24:31 tells us that when He does come, He shall send his angels with a great sound of a trumpet.

I am going to get technical for a moment, just to show how good this passage really is. He is going to send His angels out with a great sound of a Shofar. It's a ram's horn. In the Greek text, the word "sound" is in brackets, which means it has been added to the text by some unseen person who doesn't understand the fact that the word "great" modifies the trumpet. It is called a great Shofar. The prophecy is in Isaiah 27:12-13. It says the great Shofar will blow, and the Lord will gather His people from the four corners of the earth.

So that is very important because that's a prophecy that the Jews looked for. It says He is going to gather them together, (his elect), that would be the Jews, from the four winds, from one end of heaven to the other, north, south, east, and west.

This is my understanding of this section of Matthew.

Hello again, Jimbob,

As you asked, here is what I can share on Matthew 24:29-31. I will need more than one post to give you, my understanding.

(Part 1)

These verses speak of the promise of Jesus' second coming. Understanding the 7-steps of a Jewish wedding helps give a better understanding of Christ's second coming, and also some of the Jewish views about when Christ is coming back. If you would like for me to send you what the 7-steps are, I will do so. It is very interesting, I promise! They are literal steps of a Jewish wedding, and they parallel the things spoken of in Matthew's gospel.

So, reading through Matthew 24:29-30, it says that immediately after the tribulation of those days, the sun will be darkened, the moon will not give any light, and the stars shall fall from heaven, and the powers of the heavens shall be shaken. And then shall appear the sign of the Son of man in heaven: and then shall all the tribes of the earth mourn.

Now the word "tribes" is very important. That tells us that we are talking about Jewish people. It is a Jewish term. All the tribes of the earth shall mourn. And they shall see the Son of man coming in the clouds of heaven with power and great glory. All the tribes! Again, that would be Jews.

In Revelation 1:7, it tells us that every eye will see Him, even those who have pierced Him. Zechariah 12:10 is a prophecy that the Jews hold to, only they don't understand its application. It says that when Messiah comes, they will look upon Him whom they have pierced.

So, at this time when Christ comes (at His second coming), the Jews who are left on the earth, they are going to mourn, and they are going to look and go "Oh no, we crucified our Messiah, and here He is!" They are going to recognize Him. And we see in Verse 31 that the Lord's going to round them all up. It says in this verse that He's going to come upon the clouds of heaven. That's given to us in Daniel 7:13.

To be continued...

Jimbob,

Good thoughts here.

My only response is that I know that when Jesus resurrected, He did so bodily, and He returned to the Father to be glorified and then He appeared to the apostles and many other disciples before ascending into heaven on the very body that was resurrected, one of flesh and bones, as He said to Thomas. So I believe that our glorified bodies will be physical, like Jesus' body is, yet glorified with properties that we do not currently possess. He became man, which includes a physical body, and He will always be both God and man. So, I believe that He will forever have a human nature and divine nature in a physical body. A full human nature includes a physical body. I think we will see Him as He truly is, God in perfect humanity. And, I think that we will be like Him in His perfect humanity only, as we will then possess perfect humanity forever. That is our glorification. Our bodies will not be exactly like our earthly bodies, because we have put on immortality and incorruption, but we will be resurrected in our earthly body which is then glorified as Jesus' body was glorified. A truly spiritual body does not have flesh and bones, as Jesus said to Thomas. God has determined that mankind will always have a physical body, both in this earthly life and in the life to come.

Jimbob, your post gave me many things to think about, but this aspect of it really stuck out to me. Be blessed.

Please pray for complete healing, wisdom, restoration and divine connections for Shawna Perry. God bless.