All Discussion PAGE 110

"Science"

Had not Truth been constant, think of the waste of effort and time that we spend to give good account of ourselves at all times? Our moral imperatives are like a grapnel thrown to hold on to something immovable. Truth is the bedrock for cosmos whether it goes on expanding or is static; similarly Truth is not proved wrong whatever theoretical universes man may put forward. (Newtonian model was replaced by Einstein's theory.) A news item of April 7, 2022 "Physicists have found that an elementary particle called the W boson appears to be 0.1 percent too heavy-a tiny discrepancy that could foreshadow a huge shift in fundamental physics." (Ack:Wired of Apr.,17). Science from the time of Galileo admits only science that can be proven so such modification shall go on ad infinitum, without anyone being the wiser. For us religion is based on faith and without God as the Mind, all hypotheses shall keep appearing one after the other and also disappear. (1 Ti.6:20-21)

Chris

Thank you for your explanation. For me what matters and prevails is the Word of GOD, the Word is GOD. As is written, the witness of GOD is greater: this is the witness of GOD which He hath testified of His Son. Hebrews 1:8 - Unto the Son GOD saith, Thy throne, O God, is for ever and ever: a sceptre of righteousness is the Sceptre of thy kingdom.

I believe Oseas, that you have misunderstood what I wrote. If you have been following this thread, then you would know with all certainty, that what I've shared & believe is that Jesus was NOT a 'created Being'.

What I was referring to in that comment, was that Jesus as the "firstborn of all creation", Who is believed by some to be as the 'first in line of created beings', He then cannot be the One through Whom God created all things (because the Creator cannot also be the created). I realise that my comment can be confusing or misconstrued, but to those folk (Giannis, Ronald, & others following this), will understand what I believe & what I meant to convey. Hope that puts your mind at rest.

JESUS said: John 5:19-24:

19 ...Verily, verily, I say unto you, The Son can do nothing of himself, but what he seeth the Father do: for what things soever He doeth, these also doeth the Son likewise.

20 For the Father loveth the Son, and sheweth Him all things that Himself doeth: and He will shew Him greater works than these, that ye may marvel.

21 For as the Father raiseth up the dead, and quickeneth them; even so the Son quickeneth whom he will.

22 For the Father Judgeth no man, but hath committed all Judgment unto the Son:

23 That ALL MEN should honour the Son, even as they honour the Father. He that honoureth not the Son honoureth not the Father which hath sent Him.

24 Verily, verily, I say unto you, He that heareth my word, and believeth on him that sent me, hath everlasting life, and shall not come into condemnation; but is passed from death unto life.

God's emotions (part 2)

More major points to consider

The function of the Trinity. The function of sanctification is how Christ works in us through the Spirit to complete dying to self and also to demonstrate that our new nature is indeed due to His Spirit something that will and must result in glorification. We see in this chastisement for His own and also Christ's intercession for us. God the Father without Christ's involvement would no doubt kill us immediately anytime we sinned in His presence and none of us would be able to live even a day after being saved (let alone if we aren't). God therefore always sees His Son in us if we are saved and His sacrifice is sufficient for us to eventually enter into glory. Understanding how intimately the whole Trinity is involved in our everyday existance helps us be sensitive to the mind of God and know Him better.

Man is in the image of God. Man; therefore can only act out what is more or less a true reflection of God's own emotions or act out a sinful way with emotions that are self centered. (see 2 Cor. 7:10).

Finally before we go any further a caveat: Clearly to define the manifestation of an aspect of expression of any member of the Trinity as "emotion" is lowering His Divinity to a level or denominator we can somewhat comprehend. It is a poor description of His reactions but I find no other word at present to make this conversation make sense. May the Spirit guide these posts and those who consider these things!

Our best example; of course is Christ Himself during His earthly ministry as to how we are to function with our own emotions on this earthly journey. It is of course more popular in today's church culture to point out His love and compassion (such as when He wept hearing of the death of Lazarus; or perhaps over Jerusalem right before the cross). His angry outbursts taking up a whole chapter in Matthew were always against a group of people not individuals; nonetheless were intense.

Thanks Momsage. Your question cannot give just a single answer; even though we read from the same Bible, we can have several reasons why we believe the way we do. I think the most common would be, 'how can a Holy, Invisible, All-powerful God Who is a Spirit Being, condescend to the position of sinful flesh - and how can God separate an immaterial part of Himself to take on humanity'? We all can believe that One had to come to die for the redemption of sinful mankind, but how is it possible that the LORD of Heaven should Himself take on this task?

The apostles faced this same dilemma as various teachings were coming into the Church that were not according to the Word & apostolic teaching, but were taking away from Who this Christ Jesus was. Briefly, Gnostic belief was entering the Church (then, as it does now). 'Gnostic', from 'gnostikos', means, 'pertaining to knowledge'. And this translates to certain teaching relying heavily on using the mind to both read & interpret Scriptures; therefore, if something was too mystical or unbelievable, then one should use the powers of reason & logic to come to a reasonable conclusion.

Some of the Gnostic beliefs are: having knowledge is superior & more preferable to having virtue; the non-literal sense of Scripture is the correct position to hold, & this understanding is given only to a few; evil in the world precludes God being the only Creator; there is no resurrection of the flesh. And the one that applies here, is a variant of the Gnostics, that of the Docetics; and one of their beliefs is that there was no incarnation (referring to Jesus), simply because Deity cannot unite with anything material, such as a body. If we have this belief then no further discussion can take place since the Word of God is no longer our sole reference point. That is why I especially enjoy engaging on such important topics here, since our only appeal is to the Scriptures & not to what seems right in one's mind. I hope this helps a little.

Scripture and the argument of God's "emotional tirades"

Introduction. In today's churches a problem with irreverent worship in emotionally charged services (often tied in with the Charismatic or Pentacostal movements) is at times contrasted with the stoic; dull styles of those of Reformed circles; or endless rituals of other denominations related to Catechisms; prayers or other regular events in such churches. It may be my imagination but it seems there has been no detailed study on God's emotions; let alone trying to discuss scriptures which appear He is conflicted; or seemingly changes course after His covenant promises are petitioned as a reason not to judge (such as the discourse with Moses when He asked to leave Him alone to wipe them out ( Deut. 9:14). I have heard occasional comments on the jealousy of God against those who would worship idols that are called out to be His people. This posting and likely several more postings will attempt to make a head on investigation while honoring God's perfect righteousness in all of His reactions.

My hope is that people will start to see God's reactions and be able to comprehend better that He is a living God. This will help us to be sensitive to grieving Him in the Spirit as well as when we are TRULY blessed by Him and not merely fooling ourselves.

I want to attempt to bring a clearer understanding of the function of the Godhead particularly between the Father and Son; as related to His Covenant promises and predestination.

Here are some key points which I will consider in more detail; Lord willing the next few posts.

Covenant. God throughout history has made covenants with man and the rest of creation; then later with Abraham and Isaac; then with the nation of Israel. God uses these to chastise His own or bless them depending on obedience or disobedience; but eventually will wreak total destruction on His enemies.

Worship: God is totally justified in seeking glory by exalting Himself.

More 2 come

JESUS was in the beginning with GOD.

John 1:3-5

3 All things were made by JESUS; and without JESUS was not any thing made that was made.

4 In JESUS was life; and the life was the Light of men.

5 And the Light shineth in darkness; and the darkness comprehended it not.

Around 2000 years ago, The Word made flesh - the Word is GOD, self-executing - He said: My Father worketh hitherto, and I work. O yes, it still was the fourth GOD's Day, that is, around 4000 years after Adam, so GOD the Father still was working in His works by JESUS. Both are One, though two distincts Persons. By the way, No man hath seen GOD at any time, the only begotten Son, which is in the BOSOM of the Father, He hath declared Him.

Maybe He still has not declared Him for you.

Chris

You said '(i.e. that Jesus was also a created Being) cannot also be the One 'through' Whom God created all things".

Based in your words the King James Version should or must change what is written in Hebrews 1:1-3, as follow:

1 GOD, who at sundry times and in divers manners spake in time past unto the fathers by the prophets,

2 Hath in these last days spoken unto us BY HIS SON, whom GOD hath appointed heir of all things, by WHOM also He -GOD- made the worlds;

3 Who being the brightness of GOD's Glory, and the EXPRESS IMAGE of GOD's Person-the Word is GOD-, and upholding all things by the Word of His Power(Matt.28:18), when He had by Himself purged our sins, sat down on the right hand of the Majesty on high:

Chris, see,

based in the everlasting Word of GOD, the Word is GOD, YOUR TESTIMONY of my Lord JESUS is false, it is fake.

Be careful, because even my Lord JESUS left very clear saying that "out of the heart proceed false witness, and blasphemies, evil thoughts, murders, adulteries, fornications, thefts:

Be careful or else get ready

What matters and prevails is the Word of GOD,the Word is from everlasting to everlasting,the Word is GOD,self-executing.The Word -GOD-was made flesh around 2000 years ago or two GODs' Days ago,indeed it still was the fourth GOD's Day- Genesis 1:16-and He as the Greater Light said:My Father worketh hitherto,and I work-Jo. 5:17.Yes,GOD the Father still was working,it was still the fourth Day of His works.

The Word is a lamp unto my feet,and a light unto my path- Psalm 119:105 combined with 1Jo.1:5:This is the message which we have heard of Him,and declare unto you,that GOD is Light,and in Him is no darkness at all. And the Word made flesh said:I am come a Light into the world,that whosoever believes on me should not abide in darkness-Jo.12:46.JESUS also said to the Father in His prayer:Jo.17:7-8- ->7 Now they have known that all things whatsoever thou has given me are of thee. 8 For I have given unto them the words which thou gave me; and they have received them, and have known surely that I came out from thee,and they have believed that thou did send me.

The testimony of JESUS is the Spirit of prophecy.By the way, Isaiah prophesied:For unto us a child is born,unto us a Son is given:and the government is upon His shoulder:His name shall be called Wonderful,Counsellor,The mighty God,The everlasting Father,The Prince of Peace.

JESUS said to the Father:All mine are thine,and thine are mine;and I am glorified in them.

And now come I to thee;and these things I speak in the world,that THEY(THE TRUE BELIEVERS) might have my joy fulfilled in themselves.Jo.17:10-13.

Jo.1:18-No man hath seen GOD at any time,the only begotten Son, which is in the bosom of the Father,He has declared Him.

Jo.14:8-9:-->8 Philip saith unto JESUS:Lord,show us the Father, and it sufficeth us.9 JESUS saith unto Philip:Have I been so long time with you, and yet has thou not known me,Philip?he that has seen me has seen the Father;and how say you then,Show us the Father?

I and my Father are one-Jo.10:30

Sorry brother Giannis for placing my comment to your old comment here, as I was unable to get a Reply button on your recent one on Colossians 1:16-20.

So thanks for explaining this difficulty in knowing what Paul was actually trying to convey. People living at that time could of course come back to Paul & ask him to be more specific in his meaning - we can't, but we do have all the Scriptures to help us know what he was conveying to us, believing that he (& the other writers) did not report conflicting teaching. Knowing that all Scriptures support each other perfectly so it can only be our misunderstandings that creates difficulties for us when bringing them together.

And so when we get back to Colossians 1:15, "Who is the image of the invisible God, the firstborn of every creature", & in line with the following verses about the work of creating done 'through'Him/'by' Him, then clearly the firstborn of all creation (i.e. that Jesus was also a created Being) cannot also be the One 'through' Whom God created all things. One could ask, 'why couldn't God Himself create all things rather than creating a 'firstborn' through Whom Creation came into being?' I understand that you or your congregation understand 'firstborn' as the first to led others into the New Birth, though when I see 'pases', it seems that it refers to 'all, the whole, every kind of', & not specifically to those to be In Christ. Anyway, thanks again for the explanation.

Hi Chris: I don't wish to discuss the Sabbath in these threads. The only thing I can add is that, of course, Jesus was a part of the Godhead before he became God incarnate. Why would anyone want to think otherwise?? God Bless :)

The Major Prophets and Minor Prophets are terms used in the Old Testament to distinguish longer books of prophecy from shorter ones. It doesn't mean some prophets were of less worthiness then others. God Bless :)

Hello Chris, Ronald

Col 1:16, "For BY HIM were all things created, that are in heaven, and that are in earth, visible and invisible, whether they be thrones, or dominions, or principalities, or powers: all things were created BY HIM, and for him:"

The grk for that "by him" is "en auto". The precise meaning of that is "in him". But here it takes the meaning "by him". That is why at the end of the verse Paul repeats :... created BY HIM (in grk di'autou), ..." The right translation of "di'autou" is "through him". So Paul uses both "in Him" and "through Him" for the same thing. He actually means "by Him"

Also see verse 14, "IN WHOM (in grk en o) we have redemption through his blood, even the forgiveness of sins:".

Why does Paul say "in whom" and not "by whom" or "from whom" or "through whom?"

See verse 20, "And, having made peace THROUGH(dia) the blood of his cross, BY HIM(di'autou) to reconcile all things unto himself; BY HIM(di'autou), I say, whether they be things in earth, or things in heaven". As before in both cases the right translation is "through Him"

So again although Paul talks about the same thing, in verse 14 he says "in whom" and in verse 20 he says "through Him", in both verses meaning "by Him"

Probably when Paul is using the phrase "in Him", he means that everything takes place "in Jesus", which means that everything initiates and finishes inside Him who is the Alpha and the Omega, the Begining and the End of everything. Paul is actually very hard to understand sometimes, even by people of his time. GBU

Jerrel,

I am so sorry about this terrible situation your wife's decision has caused. I will certainly keep you in my prayers.

Now you know that she wasn't "wife material" (as she put it) for you because of how disrespectfully and unloving her actions involved in the announcing of wanting a divorce and in refusing to speak with you. You are in a very painful place. may God bring healing to your heart, mind, and soul.

My son's first wife left him abruptly without any hint and refused to even talk to him about anything. she abandoned him and the marriage. As found out by my, she celebrated her one year anniversary with her present boyfriend on the exact day she left my son. She was not "wife material' for my son, since she was in adultery prior to leaving him. That was 10 years ago after 18 months of marriage and 6 years of dating. It took my son quite a while to be willing to date again. But God brought Vivian to him a year and a half ago, they married in July. She is a believer, unlike the prior wife, very kind and thoughtful, just like I prayed to God for such a wife for him.

I pray that God will prepare you for the life you will now live without her. It is a very sad situation and I know that you are hurting so much and most likely feel that she has stolen from you the life and future that you had with her, which she has.

What a harsh and selfish decision she has made concerning you.

But I know that God is with you, in you , and beside you as you walk forward in this life He has blessed you with. draw near to Him and trust Him no matter how you feel. Rely on Him for love, support, and peace.

Melissa, I have prayed that God will direct you to the car that is best for you and for your grandson.

The Lord promotes a man and the Lord can also demote them when the power gets to their head like he did to Nebuchadnezzar. He will humble the overproud to get a handle on the ways a man should live when the humblest support their own tribes as a fact of life. May He turn her over through this reconnection to His Spirit where she can go without defying anybody, as everyone must work together under God to learn compassion and giving. Amen.

The shall wrap up this matter after His guarentee and pledge from His Bible that He shall supply you according to His needs after the times grow out of sorts. He will crown the children in His maturity beyond their years to choose learning, instruction, and discipline to set them loose from problems they cannot beat. Amen.

The Lord will direct your ways after His ways to the end that your family shall benefit. You worries shall not come true though you and all might bump into a few, for He will watch out for money traps, inconveniences and more. Amen.

My wife of 8+ years walked out on me in mid November 2023. There were no warning signs, and the night before, she kissed me goodnight, told me that she loved me. The next morning I woke up met her in the kitchen where she was making coffee and she then told me she wanted a divorce, I WAS SHOCKED AND STUNNED!!! She told me that I did nothing wrong and I am a Good Husband, She gave me " Bumper Sticker " excuses as why she wanted a divorce. " I'm not wife material" , " I don't want to be married to anyone " , " I want to go find my true destiny, my dream job, my true purpose " ,,, and the latest one that I heard was, " My love for you Wore Off ". I prayed for reconciliation, that did not happen. My Thanksgiving was spent alone and Ruined, Christmas as well. She refused to talk to me and on January 22nd our divorce was final and she said not one word to me. I am so hurt, angry, and very betrayed and lost....

"Sabbath"-2

"The Sabbath was made for man, and not man for the Sabbath./ Therefore the Son of man is Lord also of the Sabbath.( Mark 2:27-28) So what does Sabbath really mean?

First reference to it comes at the end of the creation account. The first day, second day and so on, and is not about a week, an error commonly made by Christians everywhere. It is about a day, the day appointed for the Son. God sent the Son as the Word become flesh, so the significance of Sabbath can only be understood from the ministry of reconciliation of Jesus Christ. "By him all things consist" makes the day, which God sanctified on the day seven is subservient to the position of the Son. He is the Lord of Sabbath. Day is sanctified by the word of truth.(John17:17)

Sabbath is rest to which He has entered. It is in pluperfect indicating His Will has already settled the Salvation Plan in his core Will. "And he rested on the seventh day from all his work which he had made.(Ge.2:2)". "On that day you will realize that I am in my Father, and you are in me, and I am in you ( John 14:20-NIV)". God exhorts us to reverence His sanctuary.

Abiding in Christ therefore is the Sabbath that works.(Heb.13:8).

"Sabbath"

"Six days work shall be done" Le.23:3. For the Israelites it was the work of human hands, toil of the beasts and fruits of the field that counted as work. Their literalism was such they would not see it as anything else. The fact is borne out in the question they asked Jesus. "What shall we do that we might be doing the works of God?"( John 6:27-28). God sent his only begotten Son on whom was his seal of approval and they rejected him. If the horse has bolted the stable why the nation belabor themselves with the act of scrubbing the stable floor? By the same token when God has cast them out why cause the odium of genocide from the world as we see it in our times, over the name Jerusalem that is instead being built in the heaven places? New Jerusalem is where a believer may enter in the rest of God and in his Son.

Sabbath serves as a sign. "That ye may know that I am the Lord that doth sanctify you"(Ex.31:17a.) the shadow of good things to come. It was a sign of sanctification, which, however did not good to the nation of Israel for want of faith. Moses pleading 'blot me, I pray thee, out of thy book which thou hast written' was ineffectual. He was the servant (He.3:1-3) and not Son whose offering was perfect. His Son who he shall send according to His will in the fullness of time, refreshed him. So He sanctifies the seventh day. "For by one offering he hath perfected for ever them that are sanctified (He.10:14)".

It is God who sanctifies and at His terms. God cannot deny his holiness, "And the Lord said unto Moses, Whosoever hath sinned against me, him will I blot out of my book".

"For both he that sanctifieth and they who are sanctified are all of one: for which cause he is not ashamed to call them brethren(He.2:11).What Moses gave the nation of Israel was a shadow of good things to come.

More on the flood vs evolutionary science

The sin of the sons of God having relations with women ( Gen. 6:2) and the resulting hybrid offspring seems to be clear as written; although some take it as some symbolic event. People often try to make a spurious claim of these being offspring of Cain and ignore the fact that all mankind was judged at the flood except for Noah and his immediate family (who I would say Genesis 6:9 indicates that his seed wasn't corrupted as the rest of mankind when it mentions that he was "perfect in his generations")

Science seems to indicate several mass extinctions separated by aeons of time; the greatest of which I believe is stated to be in the Cambrian mass extinction event the better part of 1 billion years ago; and the later one wiping out the dinosaurs and other creatures some 65 million years or so. What it can't explain; of course is how undigested food is found in dinosaurs that were obviously frozen to death in mass graves along with other complexities where trees; and catastrophic destruction of trees and other evidence clearly indicating a mass inundation of flood waters. As I alluded to in the first post today there is more than ample evidence of giant and advanced structures (pyramids in various countries; Balbak (or however it is spelled) and other giant sized structure found in islands in the Mediterranean and elsewhere in the world such as Stonehenge which defy explanation as to how the stones were moved and how they were cut to reflect advanced technology and often tied in with regular astronomical events with the direction they are facing.

Christians at least up until recently have understood that man's evil resulted in collateral damage to the rest of creation which continues to groan up until today ( Romans 8:19-22). It would seem that the last evil Satan is going to bring to pass after the mass appeal of alternate sexual lifestyles is a merging with AI. This guarantees damnation as Revelation promises.

Comparing evolution with Christ and rebirth

Intro. Many dive into the concept of evolution focusing on the history of men and animals; plants and all other things in creation but spend little time oon the future scriptural statements and its implications in having new bodies and eventually a new heaven and earth. Rebirth; of course begins at its "conception" when someone is born again ( John 3:16). This truth was emphasized with Christ's comments in Luke 5:23 and Matthew 9:5. Man's soul is part of God's creation but of course with human eyes we cannot perceive things clearly; and of course physical healings alone go against the 2nd law of thermodynamics which states things are in a perpetual state of decay which is of course as believers should understand an effect of the fall from the beginning.

Doubless Antichrist as the "self made man" who also will proclaim some novel form of divinity will be on display as a so called "evolutionary leap" for men to follow (doubtless accompanied by the infamous mark of the beast which will give some sort of promise of immortality it would seem to emulate the apparently "miraculous" restoration from assassination which he has).

Anyone with a pea sized brain of reason at that point could see that man's so called progress to a more "advanced species" has been; to say the least disastrous even ignoring all the past generations with the horror that will be occurring in the Tribulation.

Only man could be deluded enough to worship a created being over God and in the end attempt to fight God influenced by his "spirit brothers" that thrust him forth (the emissaries mentioned coming from the frog like demonic utterances and of course led by Satan; the Antichrist and False Prophet to their doom).

We need to remember that man made assumptions about so called "cave men" being of little intelligence goes against historical findings; and that the flood was a real event worldwide due to the utter depravity tied in with Genesis 6.

Please pray that I am able to get a vehicle hat I can afford this week to run errands for my mother and I, and get our groceries and things. I also ask prayer for my grandson that will be seeing a specialist for developmental issues. God bless you.

"Abiding in Christ"

Fellowship of God with Man accepts whosoever receives Jesus Christ and for this reason he is the Word become flesh. It speaks of his humanity. The Word was with God makes his deity as eternal. 'Jesus Christ the same' etc., He.13:8 makes the Law of God in force even before the worlds began.(Is.55:11) Thus when God tells Israel "Ye shall do my statutes, and keep my judgments, and do them. And ye shall dwell in the land in safety./ And the land shall yield her fruit, and ye shall eat your fill, and dwell therein in safety," was an exhortation for them to enter into His rest. (Le.25:18-21)

(See entry under E-end of the world)

Salvation Plan of God is Person Specific. God is a Spirit while Jesus Christ is the visible image of the Invisible God. "For it pleased the Father that in him should all fullness dwell." (Col.1:15,19) Soul of man corresponds with the Son aspect in Trinity. You have to love God with all your heart soul and might. It is what abiding in Christ would mean.

Discourse of Jesus on 'I am the true vine' illustrates it. Faith is what keeps the connection between two worlds of the body and of the Spirit abiding. "For without me you can do nothing." ( John 15:1-5) His fruits are his proof.

please remember Jessica and me in your prayers today

"End of the world"

Jesus before his ascension warned his disciples not to figure out the end time by their intellect. It was set under divine seal of Authority (Ac.1:7).

"And he (God) rested on the seventh day from all his work which he had made." Number Seven is not about week but Day in which days are counted in several multiples of seven.God's promise to Israel was conditional. They were to observe His commandments with whole heart and soul and might.(*'ye shall do my statutes, and keep my judgments, and do them".)

"And ye shall dwell in the land in safety./ And the land shall yield her fruit, and ye shall eat your fill, and dwell therein in safety." Then Moses goes on to add, "And if ye shall say, What shall we eat the seventh year? behold, we shall not sow, nor gather in our increase./Then I will command my blessing upon you in the sixth year, and it shall bring forth fruit for three years."(Le.25:18-21). Significance of the number Three refers to the Son. When he said, 'My Father works hitherto and I also work explains the glory of the Word that the Spirit of Christ signifies. His work shall be done only when Christ Jesus announces, 'It is done.'(Re.21:6)

Jubilee of God redeeming the earth would mark the inauguration of new heaven and the earth. (see under N- numbers command/jubilee). The rest we are exhorted to enter corresponds with the rest, which under the Law of Moses was for two years. (He.4:11). The land belongs to God in this age or in the one to come.(Le.25:23)

*Coming back to the word of God, you shall keep my judgments in v.18 God exhorts them to keep His judgments as Christ in them did. His will is perfect and reckons no Israel or Gentile nations in his Son. His Fellowship with Man allows no further distinctions.

Esther, the Book of

The book is an allegory of the church, which is personified in Esther, an orphan raised to exalted position and whose faith with works saves an entire nation from destruction. Mordecai is a type of Apostle who 'For I am jealous for you with godly jealousy. For I have betrothed you to one husband, that I may present you as a chaste virgin to Christ."(2 Co.11:2)

Every believer who comes the Lord is an orphan in the sense he has rejected the hold of flesh and blood in order to do the will of God.(Matt.12:48-50). When Esther prepares herself to present herself unrequested into the presence of the king she risked certain death, But her faith with works made her acceptable to Christ. Prior to the great tribulation the left out church (The woman in the wilderness in Re.12) will stand in the breach and shall be sealed in place of the twelve tribes (Re.7:3-14)

Page 3. Ronald.

So when I read those references you gave from Matthew & John, I see Jesus in His Incarnation/in His Flesh, having laid aside His Glory, taking on the form of a Servant, & being obedient to the Father, going to His Death for us. Jesus had to receive all this & the Power & Wisdom of His Father, for He was made a Human, having had to relinquish the Glory He enjoyed within God.

Why then did Jesus have to receive all this - why couldn't He, if He came from within the Person of God, already be endued with what He once had? I cannot say for sure, except to wonder, would He then even be able to take on human flesh clothed in that Glory? Something(s) had to be laid aside so He could be fully Human & people could perceive Him as such, & not as an angel or visitor from another planet. Yet, the people needed to see God at Work in this Man before them, by His Words, His Life, & His Work. And after He declared the Work 'finished', this Jesus as a Man was received back into Heaven, to the acceptance of the Father & received the worship of the heavenly beings, which only God could receive. Could Jesus now be a second God, or rather a vital part of the One God, continually reflecting the Will & Work of the Father in securing many children to enter Glory. Blessings.