All Discussion PAGE 116

"24 Elders"

The 24 elders are memorial and represent the body in Trinity. Consider the role which the 12 Apostles created by the eternal Word plays in disseminating the Gospel of God on the earth. They occupy in heaven as associates, similar to the role the four beasts attests of Jesus Christ as 'the firstborn of every creation'. (Col.1:15) Their testimony is of the Gospel of God and it applies in heaven, in earth and in the lower parts. (3x8=24).

In heaven -"And I saw another angel fly in the midst of heaven, having the everlasting gospel to preach unto them that dwell on the earth, and to every nation, and kindred, and tongue, and people,"(Re.14:6)

2.On earth as associates of the Son of man. (Matt.10:40; Luke10:16) "Wherefore, holy brethren, partakers of the heavenly calling, consider the Apostle and High Priest of our profession, Christ Jesus (He.3:1)"

3. In the lower parts. "For Christ also hath once suffered for sins, the just for the unjust, that he might bring us to God, being put to death in the flesh, but quickened by the Spirit:/By which also he went and preached unto the spirits in prison."(1 Pe.3:18-19. Cf.Ec.11:2 "Give a portion to seven, and also to eight; for thou knowest not what evil shall be upon the earth." Consequence of Jesus preaching in the lower parts has great consequence. Re.12 gives us a clear hint why. "And the serpent cast out of his mouth water as a flood after the woman, that he might cause her to be carried away of the flood./ And the earth helped the woman, and the earth opened her mouth, and swallowed up the flood which the dragon cast out of his mouth. "(Re12:15-16)

Fulness of Jesus covers even there. "The firstborn from the dead; that in all things he might have the preeminence./For it pleased the Father that in him should all fulness dwell;"(Col.1:18-19,16)

Thanks for your very nice reply to me Jesse , I appreciate it very much .

By explanation , I despise conflict . I lived with it as a child from my parents and I'm still putting up with it from my mom and step dad . My first instinct , if I see it coming in the distance , is to remove myself .

I am also very firm in my beliefs and haven't come to them quickly or lightly and I've heard the trinity argument over and over and over again and I just don't want to go there anymore , I would rather talk about something edifying , something interesting , beautiful etc . Not interested in going round and round the same old arguement again and again . I don't try to persuade anyone to believe what I do so why do others want to try to persuade me ? I want to enjoy my time on here , maybe learn something new about the Bible , maybe I can help someone else's understanding of it . I want my time on here to be enjoyable to me and I don't enjoy big circular debates that don't end , I don't change my mind or anyone elses , that's not why I'm here . Can you understand that ? We all have different personalities on here and different reasons for coming on here , I'm not here to argue / debate / defend my beliefs . I'm not trying to convert anyone . Just want to read some Christian posts and maybe respond if I'm moved to do so . That's me in a nut shell :) . Thanks again for your kindness .

Oh thank you Ronald ! Once again you have explained my thoughts and put them on here :) , are you a mind reader ? No , you're not , you are a Bible reader :) :) :) .

please remember me and my family today in your prayers

"Trinity" (amended)

Please read the first paragraph as follows:

Fellowship of God with Man is inshrined in heaven as a memorial. In Re.5:6 we have a visual transcription of the will of God and it shall never change. There must a body, is it not? The body of four and twenty elders is one. The body has its glory ordained by God."But God giveth it a body as it hath pleased him, and to every seed his own body." (1 Co.15:38-41). Consequently we see the four beasts and they are reflecting the glory of God and setting his Son as the firstborn of all creation: it gives us one beast having the face of a man. God created man 'in our image', and we have the last Adam represented. According to the will of God 'Let them have dominion,' refers to Adam and three beasts representing His creation.

"Trinity"

Fellowship of God with Man is inshrined in heaven as a memorial. In Re.5:6 we have a visual transcription of the will of God and it shall never change. There must a body, is it not? The body of four and twenty elders is one. There is also another body of the four beasts and they are reflecting the glory of God and setting his Son as the firstborn of all creation gives us one beast having the face of a man. God created man 'in our image', and we have the last Adam represented. According to the will of God 'Let them have dominion,' refers to Adam and three beasts representing His creation.

Secondly theSpirit aspect: "And there were seven lamps of fire burning before the throne, which are the seven Spirits of God."(Re.4:5). Thirdly we have the Lamb who 'prevailed to open the book' with seven seals, and he was found worthy to set judgement in motion. As an overcomer he represents the soul, or as head of the church. Body Spirit and Soul constitute Trinity as a memorial in heaven.

"So God created man in his own image, in the image of God created he him; male and female created he them (Ge.1:27)" defines Trinity:The Word made flesh was continuation of the Spirit of Christ with which he could be deemed the Spiritual Rock (1 Co.10:4). For this reason he could say," Jesus said to the Jews, "Most assuredly, I say to you, before Abraham was, I AM.(John8:58-NKJV)."

Symbolism of the rock, water and the slain Lamb are sustained no matter where, whether in heaven or on earth the word is established eternally.

When we speak of human likeness his body spirit and soul gives Trinity a template for every believer. In creating man in 'our likeness' body spirit and soul of man correspond with Trinity.

By principle of Similitude heaven and earth are set on a single standard. The Son upholds all things 'by the word of his power' similarly he reconciles all men to his Father in him.

(See under J-Jesus his deity)

"The Book of Job"

It is set in a series of parables. In the parables of Job one might think of the Socratic dialogue as nearest, and it is search for truth as its core value. The Bible clearly declares no man may question God and wrest a meaning by force or by arguments. "Woe unto him that striveth with his Maker! Let the potsherd strive with the potsherds of the earth. Shall the clay say to him that fashioneth it, What makest thou? or thy work, He hath no hands?(Is.45:9). We find Abraham interceding with God with regards to the imminent judgment over Sodom. He asks, "And Abraham drew near, and said, Wilt thou also destroy the righteous with the wicked?" Ge.18:17-33).

Truth is the only basis that 'still small voice' as in the case of Elijah, plays a crucial role in the parables of Job. Job uses a parable, which in the parlance of the Spirit is to instruct us the depths and riches we have in the eternal God.

For example what is the confidence of Job? "For I know that my redeemer liveth, and that he shall stand at the latter day upon the earth:(19:25)" How do we reconcile this idea 'For as the heavens are higher than the earth' (Is.55:8-9) with our thoughts ? Truth in our heart is the only medium of instruction. The Spirit has set the Book of Job with this in mind as a series of parables.

Parables are clothed with allusions to the natural world so these are direct confrontation of two worlds of the flesh and the Spirit.

Parables are to be understood as introduction 'How To Do the Will of My Father in some easy lessons' could well be the by-line to the whole body of Parables. Key to understand him is to do the will of God the Father," If any man will do his will, he shall know of the doctrine, whether it be of God, or whether I speak of myself ( John 7:17)."

Good evening Ronald! One possible meditation for the Trinity belief to be tied to salvation is the parts of the Godhead are not equal in authority. The door to our salvation was chosen by the Father to be found in the Son and confirmed afterwards by the Spirit.

Apologies to all. In my first paragraph I had not corrected my initial wording, 'of the Nature of God', when I substituted it here with 'God's Nature' but omitted removing the article preceding it. That's a nasty error & I need to go slower in my revisions.

Jema,

Provoked me? It depends. If you're using that in a good way, then yes. If in a negative way, as in you have provoked me to become angry or given me any reason whatsoever to ignore you, then absolutely not!

Please know that none of your posts have ever "gotten on my nerves," so no, I will not ignore you or anyone that comes here for discussion. I consider everyone here to be my brothers and sisters in Christ unless they give me reason to believe otherwise. I consider you a sister as I know your love for the Lord is genuine.

I don't think it would be right for me to ignore you or anyone for that matter just because I disagree with them, or they disagree with me on something. What good does that do and how would that be showing "brotherly love?" I have seen this happen here on this forum where someone has told another person that they are never going to read any more of their posts," or someone being told that they only discuss things with a couple of people.



Those types of comments do not violate the guidelines set forth on this discussion forum, and we are free to speak our minds, but my thoughts are that if there is a disagreement with another person on something, even if the other person was perceived as being rude, and they are told that their posts will never be read again, what if that person came back to apologize to the person who told them they will never read any more of their posts?

Jema, if you recall not so long ago, I had some very good things to say about you. My impression and thoughts towards you have not changed. Thank you for being honest and open with me. I will continue to read the things you have to say here. Your input is just as valuable as anyone else's here, and very much appreciated. I have no plans of "ignoring you." Hopefully you have no plans of ignoring me either!

May the Lord continue to draw us all to His word in order that we might grow in the grace and knowledge of our Lord and Savior Jesus Christ!!!

That's a great point & Scripture ( Acts 9:5) brother S. Spencer & thanks for it. That is indeed a very telling encounter that Saul had. He asked, Who art thou, Lord? Saul was confused. He didn't refer to that Voice as God nor any other divine being, but used 'Kyrie', a title given in this instance, of 'respect or reverence to someone of distinction'. So, we see Saul, on his way to massacre these Christians & probably fuming through his teeth all through his journey there, suddenly falling to his knees in respect, hearing this voice from above calling him by name and asking why he was being persecuted. We can hardly imagine the thoughts & conflicts that Saul must have been going through. Not the least of which, 'there is only one God in Heaven, so who is this speaking?'

And so the blinders on Saul fell off & his heart was made pliable. How? By hearing the Word of God & having a life-changing experience with the God He actually despised, by rejecting His Son. And so we can understand Paul's yearning in anguished prayer, "my heart's desire and prayer to God for Israel is, that they might be saved." ( Romans 10:1-3). He longed for his people to have what he had received directly from the Risen Christ. And so it must be for all who would turn to Jesus for salvation: the Word must cut deep into their hearts & a mighty revelation received, that makes sin absolutely detestable & the Love of God & His Salvation absolutely craved for & treasured. Every blessing brother & thank you for your posts - always read & well received.

Hi Adam,

It is good to hear we are understanding each other better as brothers in Christ. I will in the future give my understanding of John 1:1. The truth is what is important regardless of what we have been taught.



Have you ever asked the question is salvation is dependent on the belief in the Trinity?

God bless,

RLW

Trinity vs. Oneness (part 3)

Argument #4 Holiness. Touching on this subject in the last post; we see this as an expected behavior after repentance; and full immersion baptism. Since the issue of baptism isn't unique to those of oneness persuasion as a necessity for salvation; I will not get into it here except to say that Acts 2:38 could be interpreted differently if we say REPENT and be baptised FOR THE REMISSION OF SINS. This would place the emphasis of the remission on the repentance. As to holiness I would say that it MUST occur at some point in a believer's life as evidence of spiritual FRUIT. But as I believe I stated earlier (if it wasn't wiped out) is that holiness is a result of a changed heart ( Exodus 36:26). If we are holy we should show love; longsuffering and other evidences of saving faith; not have a prideful or boastful attitude because we are (or think we are) saved. I would argue that there is a good point about the churches in general being very lax in dress and other worldly behaviors being allowed so that they are often indistinguishable from the world. As to the behavior of marriage and divorce that Mr. Jennings has I actually agree with that; although in many other congregations of Pentecostals and certainly charismatics it seems there is much illegitimate divorce and remarriage when a spouse is still alive. Another issue I won't elaborate on further is the speaking in tongues which is considered NECESSARY for salvation despite scriptures to the contrary such as 1 Corinthians 12:30 which I probably referenced already.

For now I feel I have given a sufficient overview of this subject. I certainly am not lauding Calvin's approach to martyring Silvanius for being a modalist (or non Trinitarian); I can't say matter of factly someone is not a true believer in this camp but have serious concerns on these and other issues. We can't understand much even with scripture on these mysteries of God.

Let us be Bereans.

Agape. Rich P

Brother Giannis. I note that your question is directed to those holding a non-trinitarian position, but thought to clarify that these folk would willingly accept that at the miraculous birth of Jesus, His impeccable & sinless life, & His Father's acceptance of Him & ascension to His right Hand, Jesus gained a complete Divine character & position with the Father. Therefore, regarding Jesus' Presence & Ministry among us by His Spirit denotes His present divinity, assuming all of God's Nature within Him. And this understanding I feel can be accepted by all of us: that of Christ being Divine & sending forth His Spirit, i.e. the Spirit of God to accomplish His Will.

So the claim to Christ's Divinity is not an issue after His Birth, Life & Ministry, rather, the issue is even before His Birth to lay down His Life. I consider John 15:13, "Greater love hath no man than this, that a man lay down HIS life for his friends" and 1 John 3:16, "Hereby perceive we the love (of God), because he laid down HIS life for us: and we ought to lay down our lives for the brethren." (Noting, that "of God" is in italics, thus not in the original). And from these verses, I ask, 'are we seeing simply Christ's Love for all that caused Him to lay down His Life in sacrifice, or are we also seeing God's Love for all in bringing forth a Son for the purpose of providing the one & only Sacrifice?'

It is true, that Jesus' love for sinners was His prime motivation to give up His Life in redemption; but if it was also God's Love for all people that caused Him to provide a sacrifice, can we measure or understand that Love, by Him just creating a suitable sacrifice or by giving up His Own Life for us? An earthly perspective: is real love & salvation seen by someone calling out to another to help a child caught in a rip, or should not that the man himself go out & risk his life to save? It's easy to get someone else, but true love is by doing the job yourself. And God did that in the Incarnation.

Hi RLW,

Thanks for the clarification. If we already discussed this months or years ago I just don't remember, so thank you for explaining. I have a better idea of what you meant now. I'm glad you're a Christian.

My comment didn't have much to do with baptism but your comment did and it seems you were making a distinction between Matthew 28:19 and examples in the Bible where people were baptized. I would have to review to know what if anything was mentioned as being said.

I don't believe people have to believe in a Godhead to be saved. I think you were thinking that was a requirement. I don't believe this is a salvation issue, but just trying to understand the Bible and arrive at the truth. I believe that is the goal here.

You wrote: "Now in many churches, a person must believe in the Trinity for salvation, and if they do not confess the Trinity, they are not a Christian."

In the last 50 years or more I've attended many different Christian church denominations and I've never once heard of anyone saying you must believe in a trinity to be saved. Are you sure that is what someone said? This not what typical Christians believe. Can you give an example of what specific Christian church denomination and location or if it was just one person who said this?

I once went to a Calvary Chapel where the guy gave a sermon that said if you don't vote for Obama then you're not a Christian. But I knew enough to know that guy was wacko and his cult beliefs did not represent others in the calvary chapel or in Christianity. It's a common logical fallacy to generalize an entire group of people for one individuals actions or beliefs. What's ironic is Obama is a muslim and pro-abortion, which is a very anti-Christian belief.

But as for not believing Jesus is God. If John 1:1 said and the Word was NOT God, then I would find this belief more credible, but it says the opposite. Jesus is the Word: Revelation 19:13. He's also the I AM: John 8:58, Exodus 3:14.

Amen Brother Chris.

Your reply reminds me of Saul encounter with the Lord on his way to Damascus in Acts 9:5.

"And he said, WHO ART THOU, LORD?

There seems to be a lot here in this question!

For one, Saul believe in God in the way he's presented in the OT as you said Brother Chris.

But yet he asked "WHO ART THOU, LORD" as he responds to the Lord's question. " Saul, Saul, why persecutest thou me?

It seems immediately it came to Saul's mind the accusations against Jesus in John 10:33.

( Jesus answers Saul's question knowing position and beliefs in the only God Saul knew of)

"AND THE LORD SAID, I AM JESUS" whom thou persecutest: it is hard for thee to kick against the pricks."

God bless

Trinity vs. Oneness Part 2

There are so many verses in the Gospels that they are too much to quote here. The idea is that Christ showed numerous times His role in the Godhead as submissive to the Father. John 5:19 is an excellent example where Christ stated that He could do NOTHING on His own but what He sees the Father doing He then does. Some of these issues no doubt were unique to the time He came to die as a man on the cross; which could be the premise of Matthew 24:36 also repeated in the book of Mark. Even HE didn't know the day or the hour of the return of Christ.

Before going on we can learn a lot about the nature of God in this relationship; much like the submission of woman to man in a marriage. Somehow in the Godhead Christ follows the actions of God in His work. It is clear through the death on the cross that HE was indeed part of the Godhead but that God the Father also had to take a role in holding the whole universe together for if it was only Jesus then it would have ceased to exist at His death as I see it. The counsels of the Godhead no doubt were involved with these plans before the foundation of the world for this plan as ( Ephesians 1:4 is but one example; also see Revelation 13:8 for the end result of this predestined plan for those who would be saved).

The plurality of the Godhead is also mentioned in John 14:21 to 23. This shows the Father and Son; and no doubt the Holy Spirit seals us in the day of redemption as well. ( Eph. 4:30). Also of course there is John 3:16 about God so loving the world and sending His son that whoever believes in Him will be saved. '

Oneness argument #3 Arminianism. The book of John is excellent in showing the Godhead as well as elements of Predestination involved with this. UNDERSTANDING THE GODHEAD TIES INTO CORRECT UNDERSTANDING OF PREDESTINATION. It also ties in with holiness (Argument #4). True holiness must stem from a new heart reflected in outer actions; not from our actions.

We need a national forgive someone day.

Hi Adam,

I understand your passion and I believe you may have misunderstood parts of my post; I am sorry. Your first question is yes, I am a follower of Jesus. Jesus answered the scribe and said, Mark 12: 29-30 And Jesus answered him, The first of all the commandments is, Hear, O Israel; The Lord our God is one Lord: 30 And thou shalt love the Lord thy God with all thy heart, and with all thy soul, and with all thy mind, and with all thy strength: this is the first commandment. And yes, I do, but am I perfect, NO.

I do not belong to any denomination; I have attended many denominations but Catholic and I am in my 70s and there is not a church close to me now that I feel comfortable going to. John 1:1 I will say my understanding is different and too long to explain in this reply maybe another thread.

What I meant about Matthew 28:19 is in this verse Jesus told them to go baptizing people in the name of the Father and of the Son and of the Holy Ghost. People use this to support the Trinity doctrine but nowhere in the New Testament is anyone baptized in the name of the three, people were only baptized in the name of Jesus not that there was no baptizing in the New Testament, but they were only baptized in the name of Jesus.

As you listed Acts 4:10-12 only by the name of Jesus and "none other name under heaven given among men, whereby we must be saved. And that name is who they baptized people in the New Testament not of the Father and of the Son and of the Holy Ghost. Now in many churches, a person must believe in the Trinity for salvation, and if they do not confess the Trinity, they are not a Christian. Can you show me where that was said or was taught anywhere in the New Testament?

I am sorry we do not agree on this, and I hope this helps you understand my last post, and may we be guided by the Holy Spirit in our study for the truth, we are one body.

God bless,

RLW

Trinity vs Oneness camp: Part 1

I have been wiped out on my computer TWICE trying to get this posting out. Seems the enemy doesn't want me to do this.

Or I had too many windows up at the same time. UGH.

Whenever I go to get scripture references I take a chance on wiping out the page; although my computer for some reason stalled out last run..

I will post this as an argument and rebuttal format just to do something different....

First assumption (as best I understand it). Christ didn't appear any other time in a bodily form except while here on earth.

It should be clear that Christ rose with scars remaining from His body which He had on earth that was resurrected. This is clear from "doubting Thomas" in John 20:28. There are numerous instances when Christ was indeed in a preincarnate form; such as with the incident with Abraham in Genesis 18:18 (where it also appears the discussion in the previous verses is between the Godhead as to whether these things should remain hidden). There is also the incident with the angel of the Lord in Hosea 11:4 cross referencing Jacob wrestling with God in the account of Genesis 32:22-32. For worship to occur these saints of God were indeed only to worship God. Since 1 John states that no one can see God and live; and Genesis 32:30 says that no one has seen God at any time; it seems clear that Christ was appearing in these cases. Numerous other verses could be cited.

The "us" verses.

We see in the original creation story in Genesis 1; as well as the narrative of the Tower of Babel ( Genesis 11:7) where "our image" and "us" is referred to in the creation of man; and the determination to confuse the language of men.

Argument Two: Main premise that God is one appearing in different "modes" or forms. To ignore that God is in distinct persons seems absurd in light of verses such as Luke 23:46 (where Jesus commended His spirit to God at death); and all other verses which showed Christ praying to the Father.

Please pray for my relatives to get saved.

Please pray for finances.. on disability and barely have enough for basic necessities.

Please pray God sends His laborers into the harvest to win souls-I too want to lead people to Jesus- Pray I am faithful to do so; & in all my ways am pleasing to God, in Jesus Christ Name amen! Thanks & God bless you all!

Daniel, I will be praying for you.

God wants you hear on earth to keep spreading the good news of jesus christ. i realize you and your family are under a lot of stress. god is in control of your situation. continue giving love like you are. god knows your heart and he loves you very much. may god bless you and your family.

Everyone needs to dig deep into the entire book of Proverbs. The reason i say this is because of what is written there.

Please pray for me. My wife is throwing fits and cannot handle being wrong. It is at the point where she is raging and kicking and screaming and keeping me up all night. She will not let me sleep. She wants me to apologize for not sleeping next to her when she kept cursing at me and calling me fat, ugly and stupid. I understand that I am not perfect but as a Christian I do not believe she should be treating me this way. Biblically it is incorrect. Please pray for me and for humility for her. She believes she has to win because she does not trust men, she has told me this before. She has lots of issues such as OCD and she has admitted to being a narcissist.. I am so exhausted.

That's a very interesting point Adam,

" thou shalt commit adultery instead of thou shalt not. They caught it and destroyed all copies they could and I doubt anyone acted on this and lead them to sin."

If someone acted on this and use this error for a excuse it wouldn't fly with all the other scriptures stating what Adultery is.

The word of God straightens itself out.

I heard J Vernon mcgee say the word of God is like a lion in a cage.

He don't need anyone to be there to guard him.

Just open the cage and he will take care of himself.

God bless.

The Trinity: Introduction to basic concepts

It is said that those of the Oneness Pentacostal camp never refer to themselves as "modalists"; and in reality the term "Trinity" although the best description we have for God being represented by three different entities as it were along with any other term has its limitations. As with any other issue; when there is error involved there is always a deeper reason as well as associated other spurious elements of doctrine involved. I am writing believing in; more or less the Trinitarian approach and using scriptures to support this concept which I will attempt to do in further postings; provided that incoming comments are something the Lord leads me to respond to and that it is edifying to involve myself is such an undertaking.

The first thing I feel obligated to respond to is the charge by those such as Jino Jennings that those of my persuasion believe in multiple gods or 3 different dieties. That by no means is what I and others believe. I will also give positive affirmation where praise is due; the focus on holiness which is mandated by those in that camp and knowledge of scripture; particularly in the Old Testament helps build knowledge. He and others in that type of church also tend to have elders read scriptures along with their commentary and also preach from time to time. Such involvement would be helpful in any church to some extent as scripturally the gift of elder is basically synonymous with a pastor and there should be shared responsibilities in a church rather than the imbalance we sometimes see when a head pastor tries to fly solo. There is; however a tendancy among that denomination of shouting and appearing to "lord it over" people; shouting and other "signs" such as tongues and uncontrollable behaviors that are often part of a typical service. An emphasis on the necessity of speaking in tongues to be saved was a challenge given to me over 30 years ago which goes against 1 Corinthians 12:30

Hi RLW,

I don't remember who believes what in this forum, but I feel a duty to defend Jesus and defend the truth, so I will share God's word. I feel that's the least I can do as a Christ follower. Do you consider yourself a Christ follower?

If you don't believe Jesus is God then I wonder if you believe Christians are in violation of the 1st of the 10 commandments? Because if you don't think Jesus is God or divine then you might think putting Jesus #1 in their life is bad? If you can explain your religious doctrine or denomination more that would be helpful.

"In the beginning was the Word, and the Word was with God, and the Word was God." John 1:1 KJV

It is like Matthew 28:19

I'd like to ask about your comment, "the baptizing in the Father the Son and the Holy Spirit but nowhere do we see it in the New Testament all were baptized in the name of Jesus and only in the name of Jesus are we saved."

I don't totally understand this comment yet. Are you saying you don't see baptizing isn't in the new testament? Because you replied with a verse that is in the new testament, so you seemed to have refuted your own comment?

And the latter half of your comment is "...and only in the name of Jesus are we saved."

But the Bible says precisely that in Acts 4:12. It says:

"Be it known unto you all, and to all the people of Israel, that by the name of Jesus Christ of Nazareth, whom ye crucified, whom God raised from the dead, even by him doth this man stand here before you whole. This is the stone which was set at nought of you builders, which is become the head of the corner. Neither is there salvation in any other: for there is none other name under heaven given among men, whereby we must be saved." Acts 4:10-12 KJV

It says the name of Jesus Christ is through whom we are saved. It says it plain as day. Did I understand your comment correctly?

Also it flat out says Jesus is God in John 1:1 "Word was God" and it says Jesus is the Word in at least a couple other verses

Hi Giannis,

Good to hear from you, very good question. First, the Roman Church elevated Mary to the queen of heaven the same title as Tammuz's mother we see Israel worshiping. They say she ascended to heaven and much more. If we look at Acts we see Paul said that David is still in his tomb and has not ascended to heaven, Acts 2:29 and Acts 2:34. Many believe after Jesus was resurrected saints were also resurrected and are in heaven and many pray to them. My understanding is no one has been resurrected all are in the grave asleep in death.

When God through His Spirit the Holy Spirit raised Jesus from the dead He placed Jesus above all that is in heaven, on earth, and under the earth, Philippians 2:9-11. God placed Jesus on His right hand on the throne of God, therefore giving Jesus the power of the throne.

John 14:13 And whatsoever ye shall ask in my name, that will I do, that the Father may be glorified in the Son. Jesus also said John 16:23 And in that day ye shall ask me nothing. Verily, verily, I say unto you, Whatsoever ye shall ask the Father in my name, he will give it you.

God the Father and Jesus will dwell in us by the Spirit, not in temples made by hands like Jesus said in John 4:21-23 and we see in 1 Corinthians 3:16. We see in 1 John 4:12-16 it is by the Spirit that Jesus who is sitting on the right side of God on the throne of God as the only mediator between us and God has been given the power of the throne until all enemies are under His feet, 1 Corinthians 15:27-28.

My humble understanding it is by the Spirit of God/Holy Spirit that Jesus can see and hear all. Jesus is the only begotten Son of God and His God is our God the Father as Jesus said to Mary John 20:17.

God bless,

RLW

Thanks Jema. I will reply tomorrow, it's too late here. Have a blessed night.