All Discussion PAGE 118

Re.12:5 "Israel in wilderness" (2 of 2)

"Ye have seen what I did unto the Egyptians, and how I bare you on eagles' wings, and brought you unto myself."(Ex.19:4;De.32:11) Moses refers to the will of God the Father. In the testimony of Jesus Christ grace and truth the two wings refer to the Son who shall judge. "and by no means clearing the guilty, visiting the iniquity of the fathers upon the children unto the third and fourth generation." Third and fourth generation stand in context of the generation of Jesus Christ. God assured that their iniquities shall be visited,"because ye are turned away from the Lord, therefore the Lord will not be with you."(Nu.14:43)

Now Israel is allowed to await her comeuppance.

"When the enemy shall come in like a flood, the Spirit of the Lord shall lift up a standard against him."(Is.59:19)The beast making his appearance in Ch.13 has authority for 42 months, same as 1260 days. Time times and a half is another way of referring to Jesus Christ. When the enemy comes like a flood the Spirit shall raise an ensign. The flood in these verses refer the conspiracy theories and disinformation. " And the serpent cast out of his mouth water as a flood after the woman, that he might cause her to be carried away of the flood./ And the earth helped the woman, and the earth opened her mouth, and swallowed up the flood which the dragon cast out of his mouth."(vv.15-16)

1260,42 and 'the time, times and a half' ,-The tags the Spirit uses in order to establish the truth of the fulness in Christ is a characteristic of the testimony of Jesus. "All things were created by him, and for him:/ And he is before all things, and by him all things consist."(Col.1:16-17,19)

Re. 12:5 (1 of 2)

"And she brought forth a man child, who was to rule all nations with a rod of iron: and her child was caught up unto God, and to his throne."

Man child is evidently Jesus Christ and we see the fulfillment of God's promise. "Ask of me, and I shall give thee the heathen for thine inheritance, and the uttermost parts of the earth for thy possession./Thou shalt break them with a rod of iron; thou shalt dash them in pieces like a potter's vessel."(Ps.2:8-9). God's Will in the Book of the Revelation shows the first rider on the white horse riding out , "And a crown was given unto him: and he went forth conquering, and to conquer."(6:2). We see him here,"And I saw heaven opened, and behold a white horse; and he that sat upon him was called Faithful and True, and in righteousness he doth judge and make war."(19:11) The time lapse between the two is only God shall know. Interpreting time despite of it shows a reprobate mind. The two events however hang on the Lamb, "And I beheld, and, lo, in the midst of the throne and of the four beasts, and in the midst of the elders, stood a Lamb as it had been slain," This is same vision given to Daniel who sees it in terms of the Will of the Father while what John sees it as the angel who has the testimony of Jesus Christ. This is a crucial point. The last book as 'envoi' of the entire Salvation Saga is from the Son. ("And he sent and signified it by his angel unto his servant John).

The woman in the wilderness consequently is Israel left out and the period mentioned is tagged by Holy Spirit. 1260 has nothing to do with papacy or any other but the fact that she is left aside. "And to the woman were given two wings of a great eagle, that she might fly into the wilderness, into her place, where she is nourished for a time, and times, and half a time, from the face of the serpent."(v.14). It is fulfillment of "and how I bare you on eagles' wings, and brought you unto myself."(Ex.19:4)

Hi rainwalker,

I see no vitriol, Just a puddle of your own making. With Joy and Peace in Him,

See thou a man wise in his own conceit, there is more hope of a fool than him Prov 26:12.. no "vitriol" intended by the way.

Thanks for your post , I know all of that info from the internet also . I use a 1611 KJV . I don't mind what other people choose to read , that up to them . This is however a KJV site . So I don't see why people can be surprised if that's the version most people on here want to talk about and refer to . Maybe I'm being foolish but as I said , this isn't just a Christian site or a Bible site only , it's a KJV site .

Dear Debora , your post touched my heart . Ten years ago I was treated for and survived stage four cancer . You gave thanks for a few people there , your daughter and grandkids etc . I don't have any of those . The only thing I'm sure of is that I'm still here because God wants me to be . I don't know why He wants me to be but He does . I can try to guess , I have a husband who is very vulnerable and relies on me a lot , I have an aging mother in law who will need looking after in the future , my parents who are old and very frail have three kids but I'm the only one who does anything for them . There's three things to start with , nevermind the things that are coming in the future that I know nothing about . You are here because God wants you to be here . Maybe your family need you more than you know , God knows , He knows the future . He knows what you are going to do in the future . He knows how He is going to use you in the future . You , as a Christian , are a vessel , you have surrendered yourself to God , through Christ . You have submitted your life to Him and He is going to use you to fulfill a purpose . It may be something that we might think of as small , we may never know what effect we have had on someone else . You are needed . I have two friends who told me that I saved their lives . I didn't talk them down from a fifty foot ledge , I didn't run into a burning building . I was just there when they needed someone . That's all . God loves my friends so maybe He used me to help them ? Who knows , not me , not you but God knows . He still has things He wants you to do , He knows you and your personality and He is going to use you because you are His vessel . What a privilege :) Rejoice in His love and mercy and blessings and in the life that He has preserved for you . Do His will gladly and you will be blessed . Trust Him and thank Him and be happy , He is with you and you are being used by Him every day , every time you smile at someone , He is too .

By translation I mean , people qualified to translate , sitting down and going from Genesis to Revelation , reading it in its original language and translating it into another . That's what I understand to be a translation . I'm sorry if you don't understand what I was saying . I always try to use as few words as possible and I never intend any hidden meanings in anything that I say . Sorry if I've cause you confusion , I certainly don't mean to .

Please remember Jessica and Addie in your prayers today please remember me

"Command Numbers"

The Bible is the God document to which the role of man is limited to the man the Spirit has chosen to serve as amanuensis. All glory is to God and not in KJV or any translation which is like the 'golden calf' set up the manner it is handled about. This forum being specific, courtesy requires to follow KJV as far as possible, though there is no value if the user has no heart to examine beyond the surface to the intent of the Spirit. I see so many in this forum going round and round, -what else could have the five blind men of Benares do when presented with an elephant?, and it is simply a fool's business to think it will edify any.

Leaving aside let us look at the manner the Spirit has rendered the Scripture for our spiritual growth.

Command numbers serve to make the realities of heaven and of the earth distinct and easier to follow.

Here is an example: "The first man is of the earth, earthy; the second man is the Lord from heaven./ As is the earthy, such are they also that are earthy: and as is the heavenly, such are they also that are heavenly." (1 Co.15:47-48) Jesus Christ as the Lord from heaven is the same. But as the Word become flesh "for the things concerning me have an end." Without which the Word cannot called perfect. He has to fulfill the scriptures. As a result in his all things consist and the three and a half year is used by the Spirit to set all events on the earth. The power given to the beast sets him as the son of Perdition as Satan is set as his adversary. 1260 days or Three and a half year is the scale to set all earth events. 42 months the beast shall lord over and shall be cut off. Elisha was jeered by 42 because Elisha is set down in the narrative as a double for Jesus.(2 Ki.2:23-25) Three sets of genealogies in Matt 1 of 14 generations each.(v.7) Earthly ministry of Jesus has another half an hour in heaven. (Re.8:1) Total 4 is the command number for the Word become flesh in heaven. It governs the four cardinal directions

"Significance of numbers"

Tags are used in the case of command as well as to indicate the fullness of Jesus Christ. Expressions like "unto this day" 'on that day" forever" etc., are tags. "I have hallowed this house, which thou hast built, to put my name there for ever."(1 Ki.9:3)

The name of the Father is holiness of the Gospel, which is one. (One Lord , one faith-Ep.4:5).

The Son has a command number, which is Three. The Word made flesh makes his command number Four.

The Number Five is with respect the Son and all souls given "As thou hast given him power over all flesh, that he should give eternal life to as many as thou hast given him."( John 17:2) The principle of Association is applied to man in terms of his earthly circumstances. Thus his ox is counted as five. For this reason in the Law we have God commanding Moses, "If a man shall steal an ox, or a sheep, and kill it, or sell it; he shall restore five oxen for an ox, and four sheep for a sheep".(Ex.22:1)

What does the Jubilee (5x10) signify? The land belongs to God and the glory of the land is in harmony with the glory of the Son as heir to all things. With the jubilee year the land is to be left fallow. This rest signified rest that is promised to saints redeemed from earth.

1260 days of the ministry of Jesus is reckoned as baseline so both the Lord from heaven and the Son of man serves as a scale.

In the Parable of the Five Wise virgins and Five Foolish virgins where the command number is Ten, indicating the Will of God. (Matt.25:1-13)

(See entry under T-Ten commandments)

The virgins were redeemed from the world and they would have died to sin with taking baptism by water. They were to do the perfect will of God, which was their reasonable service. The Foolish five did no further in walking closer to the Lord. On the other hand the Five Wise virgins redeeming the times were evil did all to be kept from the ungodly ways. In short they followed the prompting of the indwelling Spirit.

"Significance of Numbers"

Command numbers are tags used by the Spirit to distinguish from numbers of numerical value.

The Spirit in organizing the narrative of the Scripture uses numbers in a manner different from its normal use. Tags are different from command number.

In the vision of The Woman Clothed with the Sun , the red dragon has ten horns which is a command number to indicate judgment as in the Decalogue. The Spirit indicates that the dragon has been already under judgment. (Re.12:4). The number 10 refers as a tag as in the measurement: an omer is one tenth of an ephah (Ex.16:36). To indicate man's life multiples of 10 serve as tag. Similarly the Spirit intends a generation by 10x10 or 10x100 or 10x1000 to indicate end times. For example in the matter of gospel the command number is 12. Multiples of 12 in the upper room before the day of Pentecost held 120(1210) in number. On Mount Sion the number of first fruits are counted, 144,000. "And I looked, and, lo, a Lamb stood on the mount Sion, and with him an hundred forty and four thousand, having his Father's name written in their foreheads (Re.14:1)". Number 144,000 is a command number meaning the divine Will with regards to what constitutes first fruits (12x12x1000).

Forty days indicate time imposed on man in preparation for fulfilling divine Will. "Moses was there with the LORD forty days and forty nights without eating bread or drinking water. And he wrote on the tablets the words of the covenant-the Ten Commandments (Ex.34:28-NIV). On the other end Jesus Christ was seen after resurrection for forty day before he ascended to the heavens.(Ac.1:3)

'And the Word was made flesh, and dwelt among us ( John 1:14). This testimony is number 4. Number 4 has significance in terms of the world that is set on four cardinal directions. (Re.7:1) Salvation is thus in terms of four gospels and the judgement aspect as in the vision of the four carpenters, - Ze.1:20.

Hi Rainwalker,

You write "Your lack of prophetic "understanding" is showing. I shall let that pass. "Answer not a fool according to his folly, Lest thou also be like unto him. Answer a fool according to his folly, Lest he be wise in his own conceit." Either way it does not matter as I hope to follow the leading of the Spirit than any opinion of man.

Jema,

To answer your question, most of the modern Bible editions are translations-meaning that the translators used texts that were written long before the present time. And these translations have been updated, edited and revised.

The KJV used the Received Text which included about 7 manuscripts written in the middle ages-The Latin Vulgate, the Catholic priest, Erasmus' translation of the Vulgate into a Greek translation, the Masoretic Jewish OT text from the middle ages, and the codices from the Byzantine and Syrian sources. They also used the Septuagint at times. The KJV was revised probably about a dozen times since 1611.

The Revised Version translation is a revision of the KJV where the translators went back to the same sources as the KJV. In the U.S. the American Standard Version was a re-translation of the KJV using the same sources as the KJV. These came out in the late 1800's.. Both the RV and ASV have been revised a few times since then now going by the Revised Standard Version and the New American Standard Version. These came out around the 1950's and 1960's.

The New International Version is a translation using texts from codices Sinaiticus and Latin that are dated far earlier than the Received Tests the KJV used. Some of these codices date back to as early as 125. A.D. up to about 500 A.D. The translators used the Septuagint and also reviewed the Received Text as well. This translation came out in the 1970's and has been revised a few times since then.

The New King James Version is a re-translation of the KJV using the same Received Texts and Masoretic Jewish OT texts as the KJV. I am not sure if this version used any of the documents that the NIV used that were newly discovered in the 1800 after the 1611 KJV was translated. The NKJV came out in the 1980's or 1990's.

The English Standard Version also is a translation using the more recently discovered and older codices that the NIV used that date back much farther than the TR and MS.

Jema,

I am not sure what point you are trying to make concerning translations? Are you saying that we should only trust a bible that is a translation, and that any bible that is not a translation should not be trusted? Over the past few weeks, this topic seems to have been the most dominant topic for discussion. I only recently decided to comment on this and was hoping the discussions would move on to something more edifying. To be fair, you asked a question, so I would like to give an answer.

The answer is yes, there are other English Bibles that have been produced after the KJB that are translations of the original languages. Should they be trusted? There have also been multiple King James versions produced since the original 1611.

I think most would agree with you that the 1611 KJB is a translation as it was translated into English using the Greek, Hebrew, and Aramaic texts available at that time. If you are referring to the 1611 KJB, your statement would be factual. However, all other KJB versions produced after 1611 are not translations but updated versions to correct the errors found in previous KJB versions. Should all other KJB versions be trusted if they are not translations? I ask this because I own a few different King James Bibles. I do not own a 1611.

As you know, if you have followed any of my posts, I also, like you, read and study from the KJB even though I do not view it as being perfect. I guess I'm just trying to understand your point about the definition of the word translation when it comes to which bibles we should trust. Can you please elaborate?

Thank you!

Dear Heavenly Father, I come to your throne of grace to ask you to help me and my husband to stop fighting. Thank you for another day. Thankyou for loving me unconditionally. Thank you for keeping a roof over our heads.Thank you for our pellet stove, for hot water, Indoor plumbing, my salvation. my health, my grandkids, our daughter, Good friends, good neighbors, our church family, our faithful pastor and his wife and their 5 children. Please help me to be me again. It's coming up on my sister's 3rd anniversary of being in Heaven. I miss her so much. I don't understand why I am still here?? I have lost my way, not my salvation, my purpose for my life. I don't know why I am still here. I lost my Dad in 2015 to pancreatic cancer, and then my mom in 2016 to lukemia, and then my beautiful sister passed away in 2021 due to lung cancer and she never smoked. I had uterean cancer in 2018 and God decided to heal me. I was praying the same prayer for my sister. I know God has told me that it was just her time. But, I am the oldest and I always thought I would be the one to go first. My sister was 19 months youger than me. I don't understand why I am still here. I wish that Jesus would come back and I could be re-united with my Dad and sister. There are more that I miss but, my sister has been the hardest death on me. I know that Gods' word says that Jesus goes and prepares a place for those who believe that he is the son of God, the messiah, the prince of peace, ect. But, I just don't understand why my 3 family members had to suffer with cancer and why I am still here??? Thank you for hearing my prayer in Jesus name I pray amen.

fools for Christ's sake.. 1 Cor 4, perhaps you miss the "simplicity" of the gospel.By the way, that 1,260 year period was a time of great persecution to the people of God that wouldn't accept the papal instituted "religion". It is the same time, times and half time spoken of in Daniel. Your lack of prophetic "understanding" is showing. That part has already come to pass. This institution, the "image" will come back around, as we see in Revelation.

Thanks Giannis, I was thinking of you when I was writing my posts to Jesse, knowing you most likely read from a Greek Bible since that is your native language.

I concur with what you are saying here. I am definitely not a King James Onlyist. I look forward to what you present in your next reply.

From what I understand: infallible not only means without error, but also unable to error. God-inspired means that God led the writers by his Spirit in their writings, but the writings were the words chosen by the writers rather than words dictated to them by the Spirit. I see it this way because of the many places where in the word that reflect a view of the world, the heavens, and space reflects the common view man had at that time in history whereas now we have learned more about these topics through scientific investigation, such as the earth going around the sun rather than the Bible writers view that the sun went around the earth; the makeup of outer space that we know now and the view of what lie beyond our "sky" of the Bible writers, for example.

Ge.1:14-18 "The lights" (2 of 2)

Israel in the wilderness

"where she hath a place prepared of God, that they should feed her there a thousand two hundred and threescore days." (12:6) The number is a tag for the earthly ministry of Jesus Christ. By the token power given to the beast works out to 42 months. ("And power was given unto him to continue forty and two months."-13:5). By literal approach the modern churches are blind to the heresies and in the political agenda they would accept the Israel despite of being cast off as reprobate. So we hear foolish arguments over Sabbath and the superiority of KJV. Fools cannot appreciate the Spirit's leading but must lay out as though the holiness of God is like a debating society and where does it lead? Nowhere and they end up as ignorant as when they begun.

Hi GiGi

My opinion about translations.

I mainly use a greek Bible that was written in the 1850's. The greek in that Bible is quite close to the greek spoken in Jesus' times. It is generally considered very accurate.but a bit difficult to understand some times. So I have to look some things up in other modern greek Bibles for clarification. I wouldn't use the word "translation" for that Bible, it is a modern version of the ancient grk. But still it is not perfect. I don't think that any translation can be perfect. Just some translations are more accurate than others. As we have discussed that topic before a translator can have two options. They can translate word for a word which can sometimes lead to not understandable texts since different languages use different expressions for the same things and so something which is clear say in Engl. may not make any sense in grk or translate in a free manner (if that is a right expression). In this latter case the translator often has to find out first what the author tries to say and then say it in understandable English.In the NT Paul is a person with a very complicated way of thinking and sometimes it is difficult to understand what he wants to say.

But I think that all famous translations old and new have taken into account other translations older and newer as well as the knowledge of numerous scholars and theologians. So they have done that job for us. So I wouldn't really care which translation I use as far as it is a known and acceptable version. I could also use more than one, why not?

Now about what people here say about "an inspired" translation . Definitely God helps people who have the task of propagating His Word in every nation and language. But inspired? I can not answer to that.

But I would also like to discuss with you lot what "inspired" means. Because many people believe that "God inspired" means "God written" or "God dictated" which is absolutely wrong. But I will go through that during the weekend.

GBU

Ge.1:14-18 "The lights" (1 of 2)

And God said, Let there be lights in the firmament of the heaven to divide the day from the night; and let them be for signs" The lights as sign was in the divine Will.

How does the Spirit set the will of the Father in Re.12:1 "And there appeared a great wonder in heaven; a woman clothed with the sun, and the moon under her feet, and upon her head a crown of twelve stars." What does the crown of 12 stars? Gospel of God (The Word was God- John 1:1). The command number 12 refers to the Gospel of Christ and the 12 Associates (disciples.) Compare the seven stars in the hand of Jesus Christ in Re.1:20 ("The seven stars are the angels of the seven churches.") The Number 7 indicates the will of the Father is complete. So it is the Fellowship of God (the Ancient of days) and the Man (Christ) we are looking at.

The Sun and the Moon to divide the day from the night. Their light is derived from divine command, "Fiat Lux!"

"And God called the light Day, and the darkness he called Night. And the evening and the morning were the first day."(1:5)

The first day denotes the first bullet point in the Abstract. It shall lead to a morning in the new heaven and the new day. (Re.21:1)

2. "And God made two great lights; the greater light to rule the day, and the lesser light to rule the night: he made the stars also."(Ge.1:16)

The Holy Family figuratively a woman, standing on the moon reveals the obedience of the Son while the Son overhead is God the Father. The church has a body called to be holy. So she is clothed with the sun. Re.12:4 tells of another story. The Fall of man and the casting off Israel as a nation is stated thus, "And his tail drew the third part of the stars of heaven, and did cast them to the earth. " Israel is not part of the man child. And she brought forth a man child, who was to rule all nations with a rod of iron: and her child was caught up unto God, and to his throne."

Israel in the wilderness(12:6)

One last thought :) . The king James version is actually a translation , are any other modern versions actual translations ? Or have they just replaced some words with others ? If in doubt , look up the definition of the word ' translation ' .

Erratum

Please read as the Book of the Revelation instead of Book of the Resurrection.

"Baptism by fire" (2 of 2)



Second group are martyrs, "And I saw as it were a sea of glass mingled with fire: and them that had gotten the victory over the beast, and over his image, and over his mark, and over the number of his name, stand on the sea of glass, having the harps of God".(Re.15:2)

Luke 12:49-50 The fire mentioned there is about the outpouring the spirit. Jesus begins the next line with the use of but as conjunction, and it is about the baptism for the dead. He referred to what awaited him. His death would bring him to the under parts of the earth where death has held captives of men who never heard the Word that was become flesh. His death was for them as well.

"And what constraint I am under until it is completed!" What does it signify for a believer?

Baptism for death was for him but it lays before us our cross. Follow me, he said. Surely it means the division for us he mentioned there. We are to align our bodies as though dead because of sin. "For if ye live after the flesh, ye shall die: but if ye through the Spirit do mortify the deeds of the body, ye shall live." (Ro.8:13)

"If ye then be risen with Christ"( Col. 3:1) is the core value. It is the life of faith. We follow as he did he stepped in as Seth did in place of dead Abel. Similarly we die for those who are dead in sin even as Christ did. Self-indulgence held no place for him.

In continuation with the post on the Book of the Resurrection we are living not only for our salvation but living with fear and trembling for the cloud of witnesses that encompass us, lest our negligence should put our dear departed ones in jeopardy. There is no sacrament but abiding in Christ.

"Baptism by fire" (1 of 2)

"I am come to send fire on the earth; and what will I, if it be already kindled?/ But I have a baptism to be baptized with; and how am I straitened till it be accomplished!"( Luke 12:49-50)

We have two judgments of which baptism by water swept away the antediluvian world. As for the baptism by fire judgment of the cities of the Plains, namely Sodom and Gomorrah was partial. "But the heavens and the earth, which are now, by the same word are kept in store, reserved unto fire against the day of judgment and perdition of ungodly men."(2 Pe.3:7)

"I indeed baptize you with water unto repentance. but he that cometh after me is mightier than I, whose shoes I am not worthy to bear: he shall baptize you with the Holy Ghost, and with fire:/ Whose fan is in his hand, and he will throughly purge his floor, and gather his wheat into the garner; but he will burn up the chaff with unquenchable fire."(Matt.3:11-12)

In his humanity, Jesus as true and faithful witness submitted to baptism by water. The key verse refers 'the baptism by fire.' He shall baptize you with the Holy Ghost." The baptism by fire refers the purging of the floor. It is pointer the burning up the chaff with unquenchable fire.There is a time lapse which we see a narrative mode employed by the Spirit. Parenthesis between bringing in sheaves and the unquenchable fire we read in the Book of the Revelation.

Baptism by fire is intended for those who neglected salvation when it was offered. "Look now toward heaven, and tell the stars, if thou be able to number them: and he said unto him, So shall thy seed be." In Ge.15:5 we reads of saints redeemed from the earth as stars in heaven. The second group "And as the sand which is by the sea shore innumerable." He.11:12. These are the martyrs seen on the sea of glass."mingled with fire: and them that had gotten the victory over the beast, and over his image, and over his mark, and over the number of his name,"(Re.15:2)

please remember me and my family today in your prayers , please remember Jessica

Sorry :) I have another comment about the KJV . I think the reason that many ascribe an almost mythical status to it is because , at the time it was commissioned , and even now I suppose , it would have been an enormous undertaking , costing a lot of money and time etc . Something that only someone with power and wealth would have been able to put in motion , this person happened to be a king , we have all read how God uses people , usually but not always , people with power and money to accomplish His desire and many people then and now , believed and still believe that kings are put in place by God , each person in life fulfills the perpose that God has assigned them . So , going by that logic , God used a king , that He Himself set up , in order to fulfill His purpose of bringing His Word to the masses . It seems quite a reasonable arguement to me , but it's one that I'm staying out of as of now :) .

My only comment about different translations of the Bible is this : this happens to be a King James Bible site . So , people who come on here might have the expectation of hearing about it , the KJV . As it's called the KJV or KJB site , that's not an unreasonable assumption . Does the niv or other translations have sites just for them ? If yes , any of us can go check them out if we want to talk about those translations on those sites can't they ? The reason the KJV is so popular is because it's one of the oldest versions still in print and , English has been very widely spoken for hundreds of years because of its so called empire and commonwealth , many of the citizens of the empire or commonwealth , were brought up as members of the church of England and learned to speak English , even if they lived in Africa or Asian . That's why so many people are familiar with the KJV and have such affection for it .

The Revelation (2 of 2)

In the Book of Genesis the seven days accounted for the Everlasting Covenant and the generation of Jesus. The Book of the Revelation reveals the Ancient of days (notice the plural) So we are seeing the day of wrath on the earth and the cusp of the day of regeneration.

The emblem of the slain Lamb was obliquely stated in 'the coat of skins' and in the scapegoat and Paschal lamb but in the last book we have the realities in heaven stretched over the constituted time. So the Lamb worthy to break open the seven seals are set before the foundation of the world. In the Four horsemen riding out in Re. Ch.6 thus gives us a context for all the wars famines plagues, pestilence mentioned in the history of nations. Similarly the red dragon appearing in Ch..12 'sinneth from the beginning'

The book of the Revelation serves as an envoi to the salvation epic. It fits with the narrative mode of 'kangaroo event' (the wilderness wanderings of Israel as kangaroo event for our life as sojourners and pilgrims on the earth.

Unlike the Genesis where generations of heaven and earth refers to' the day' ("that the Lord God made the earth and the heavens,"-Ge.2:4) the emphasis is on the testimony of Jesus Christ (1:2) so the throne of God and of the Lamb places the newness of His creation as the proof of the spirit of prophecy. " And I fell at his feet to worship him. And he said unto me, See thou do it not: I am thy fellow servant, and of thy brethren that have the testimony of Jesus: worship God: for the testimony of Jesus is the spirit of prophecy."(Re.19:10)

"He sent and signified it by his angel unto his servant John" This angel one of the witnesses in the cloud, probably John or any other in the body of Christ which explains, "thy fellow servant, and of thy brethren that have the testimony of Jesus". These names are interchangeable. So how we conduct here has serious consequence. "and will remove thy candlestick out of his place, except thou repent."

The Revelation (1 of 2)

The entire book is from the fulfillment aspect of the Son while the Genesis began with the complete and perfect will of God the Father. "In the beginning God created the heaven and the earth" so began the creation account. Instead we have the Fellowship of God with Man in the inaugural vision of 'the one like unto the Son of man'.(Re.1:13-17) Here we have the Ancient of the days and the Man evocative of the night vision of Daniel. (Dan.7:9) They are superimposed, however. "And out of his mouth went a sharp two-edged sword" is how the Spirit gives a concrete imagery to the word of God sent forth..(Is.55:11). "And his voice as the sound of many waters." is the reality of heaven in his Alpha and Omega aspect. "The Lord sitteth upon the flood; yea, the Lord sitteth King for ever."(Ps.29:10). The description of Christ in vv13-14 "clothed with a garment down to the foot, and girt about the paps with a golden girdle./His head and his hairs were white like wool, as white as snow; and his eyes were as a flame of fire;" does not hint of the cross or nail marks for a reason. We are looking at Jesus Christ the same (Heb.13:8) and "The Word was with God." ( John 1:1)

The Book of Genesis began with the Abstract of seven days. Instead we have here series of sevens, seven candles, seven trumpets, seven vials indicating the emphasis is on the things which are shortly come to pass, "for the time is at hand."(1:3) The emphasis is on the saints redeemed from the earth' and are set in heavenly places. We see the great congregation in the night vision of Daniel. These form the cloud of witness (and, behold, one like the Son of man came with the clouds of heaven,-Dan.7:13)

They are part of the holy family and we are also told one third of these shall be cast to the earth ("And his tail drew the third part of the stars of heaven, and did cast them to the earth: Re.12:4). In this context we appreciate the warning of Jesus Christ to the seven churches.

Ronald,

Thanks for your wise words.