All Discussion PAGE 130

Hello Momsage. 1/2

Before going back to what I have written so far about Sabbath I would like to see what Paul says about it in Colossians.

Colossians 2:16-17, " 16. Let no man therefore judge you in meat, or in drink, or in respect of an holyday, or of the new moon, or of the sabbath days: 17. Which are a shadow of things to come ; but the body is of Christ.(it means that the real thing that saves is Christ, like a shadow is an image of a real body under the sun)"

Paul calls Sabbath, among other things, as "shadow of future things(this is the exact translation)". Now since those verses are often presented as meaning the opposite of what they do really mean, lets see what Paul was talking about. In preceding verses Paul says, (verses 6- 8 and 14), "6. As ye have therefore received Christ Jesus the Lord, so walk ye in him: 7. Rooted and built up in him, and stablished in the faith, as ye have been taught, abounding therein with thanksgiving.8.Beware lest any man spoil you through philosophy and vain deceit, after the tradition of men, after the rudiments of the world, and not after Christ."

And verse 14." Blotting out the handwriting of ordinances that was against us, which was contrary to us, and took it out of the way, nailing it to his cross;"

And then he goes talking about meat and drink, holy days etc and Sabbath (verses 16-17). It is obvious that Paul includes Sabbath in the ordinances of the Old Testament for which we are not to be judged for not holding them. Why? Because they served as a shadow (metaphor, allegory) of future things, which actually came to us now through Christ. He also says that we must root and build up ourselves in Christ and not on those other things. He then goes on and says that Jesus nailed all those ordinances to the cross, thus blotting them out.

But the main thing is that Paul includes Sabbath in the ordinances, together with all other things like what it was accepted to eat and drink and days that were considered as holy.

I am sorry Jema, I didn't mean to bombard you, I was just answering you.

Two short replies I believe I need to tell you and I won't expect a reply.

The Commandments were not LAWS. They were commands written by God not to be disobeyed. If they are the laws you say that we are no longer expected to obey them then why do we? None of you have ever answered that question.

MERRIAN-WEBSTER DICTIONARY

Bewitched:

controlled or affected by or as if by a magic spell

influenced, attracted, or charmed as if by magic

The only criteria you have for saying I am bewitched is just because I believe the 4th commandment needs to be obeyed and believers should take one day of rest from their labors each week. Your implication that I am bewitched seems kind of harsh and unloving but maybe I've misunderstood your meaning. Anyway, I will end this discussion on the subject of the Sabbath and if I reply to any of your other discussions on this forum, I'll be sure to keep it short. I do understand where you are coming from, my daughter is the same way. God Bless :)

"The Great Commission" Matt.28:18-20

"All power is given unto me in heaven and in earth./ Go ye therefore, and teach all nations, baptizing them in the name of the Father, and of the Son, and of the Holy Ghost:/Teaching them to observe all things whatsoever I have commanded you: and, lo, I am with you always, even unto the end of the world. Amen."

In Christ all authority in heaven and on earth resides so without abiding in him the commission cannot be discharged (Matt.28:19)( John 15:4-5). It is universal and enjoined upon ever believer.

Jesus sent the twelve disciples as associates. (Matt.10:40). This Principle of Association renders all those foreknown and called by the Father having a position, which is in heaven. God of all mercies empowers the word outflow as with the Son of man offered the living waters. "He that believeth on me, as the scripture hath said, out of his belly shall flow rivers of living water" ( John 7:8).

The risen Christ gave commission to his disciples across time and space that they 'make disciple of all nations' and assured them that he was with them always till the end of time.

In giving this commission he was demanding the fullness of every disciple because the church was being built brick by brick on the living Word.

"I am the true vine" is another analogy. "For in him dwelleth all the fullness of the Godhead bodily/ And ye are complete in him," (Col.2:9-10) Consequently the principle of Association at every node had to be perfect. "Every branch in me that beareth not fruit he taketh away."( John 15:2)

Not merely the twelve or seventy other disciples, which received the commission from word of his mouth but as we read in his prayer, "Neither pray I for these alone, but for them also which shall believe on me through their word;( John 17:21-23) Unity of the Spirit is an essential part of the outpouring of the Holy Spirit. 'I in them, and thou in me, that they may be made perfect in one.'

Lord Thank You SO SO SO SO much for being You!!!

"Tabernacle of the Congregation"

'And I will send an angel before thee; and I will drive out the Canaanite, the Amorite, and the Hittite, and the Perizzite, the Hivite, and the Jebusite:/ Unto a land flowing with milk and honey: for I will not go up in the midst of thee; for thou art a stiff-necked people: lest I consume thee in the way"(Ex.33:2-3).

A Tabernacle is where God desires to dwell among people. So Moses makes the tabernacle of the Congregation, which is not the tabernacle God spoke to Moses in Ex. Ch. 25. God dies not revise His Will because of some stiff-necked people are present. This Congregation is about the names found in the book of life of the Son. (Nu.14:23-24) He makes it clear of another spirit which is of obedience." (32:8).

So this corruption necessitates two kinds of tabernacle. We have here two tabernacles one that is front and the other which is back. (See under B-back side) Instead of God an angel of the Lord shall go before them. As accompaniment the pillar of cloud by day and pillar of fire by night shall follow as promised by God throughout their journey. (40:38). God's calling and gifts are irrevocable. As promised they shall be led unto the land flowing with milk and honey. However God has made it clear, 'for I will not go up in the midst of thee;'

The tabernacle of the Congregation was merely an indication that their sins would be called to account. 'Therefore now go, lead the people unto the place of which I have spoken unto thee: behold, mine Angel shall go before thee: nevertheless in the day when I visit I will visit their sin upon them.'(Ex.32:34)

Congregation of the Dead

Here we have a Messianic prophecy and the Psalmist inspired by the Spirit speaks of a great congregation: "I have preached righteousness in the great congregation: lo, I have not refrained my lips, O LORD, thou knowest./ I have not hid thy righteousness within my heart; I have declared thy faithfulness and thy salvation: I have not concealed thy lovingkindness and thy truth from the great congregation." (Ps.40:9-10)

'My doctrine is not mine but his that sent me' ( John 7:16) and by principle of Association every disciple who believed in the gospel and in promise of the risen Jesus ('Lo I am with you always even to the end of the world ') make up this great congregation. They were called and were foreknown. For this reason Jesus died for the dead and went in his Spirit and preached the gospel to those who were held captive. Congregation of these dead also make up the congregation that is mentioned in the above-mentioned quote.

Our God is the God of the living. The condition of death only applies to the world of the flesh,- dissolution of corporeal bodies explain it. God's promise is our safety and since we trusted in his Son we have been lifted from the world of flesh to heavenly places. This has one meaning of being part of our Savior as Alpha and Omega, the beginning and the ending. Predestination has thus a great congregation to which we have been added.

We were once dead in our sins but found grace to witness it before our friends and families.(Ep.2:1)Those who disregarded the good counsel of the Word are dead even though they go through motions of living. Woman who lives in pleasure is similarly dead.(1 Ti.5:6) They belong to the congregation of dead (Pr.21:16)

Our lives are as though we are among a great congregation as this verse testifies, "Wherefore seeing we also are compassed about with so great a cloud of witnesses,"(He.12:1)

Thanks S Spenser :) , I am passionate about the old testament , it is part of the Word of God and it's extremely helpful in illuminating the new testament . I believe that we don't need to be familiar with the old but , it's a massive bonus to our understanding of Our Heavenly Father and His relationship with the nation of Israel and it's full of prophecies that are yet to be fulfilled and it is also I believe , a foreshadow of the new . The next question for me is , if I believe that the old is a foreshadow of the new , then does that indicate that the new is a foreshadow of things to come ? pertaining to the return of Christ and the establishment of God's Kingdom on earth ? We shall see , soon I hope :) Thy Kingdom Come , much love in Christ .

My prayers are with you Tiffany.. Keep the faith and never give up on God.

Hey Lord, it is me again your child asking you for guidance and understanding on today. Lord, I leave all my concerns and needs in your hand, because I know you will guide me in the right paths of this thing we call life. I would like to thank you in advance for keeping me and my family in your care Lord, thank you. I love you with my all, and Lord continue to be with me as I grow closer to you more than ever!!!! Amen....

Thank you for putting me on your prayer list, please pray for health and the finances to move, health issue and pain and discomfort, for perfect health, and my children come back and for communication.

Jema Great response!

Amos 3:1-2 Hear this word that the LORD hath spoken against you, O children of Israel, against the whole family which I brought up from the land of Egypt, saying,

YOU ONLY HAVE I KNOWN OF ALL THE FAMILIES OF THE EARTH: therefore I will punish you for all your iniquities.

Do you notice, the rest of the world wasn't sent into captivity and the duration was determined because of their neglect to rest their land. There was a Sabbath put on the land also. 2 Chronicles 36:20-21.

There is a lot on those 2 verses.

God bless.

please remember my daughter and myself in your prayer's

Dear Momsage , as I've said before , I admire your passion for this subject but , may I suggest that you may have neglected other parts of the Bible in your zeal for this one subject ? Amos Ch 3 V 1+2 . The Bible is a whole and scripture supports and illuminates scripture . I have never said that anyone should ignore any of the ten commandments . Have you read the book of Galatians ? Ch 3 is especially helpful in this subject . I'm not much of a person to get into big debates , but there are plenty on here who enjoy that sort of thing , maybe you should direct your posts to them . Much love to you in Christ .

Parable of Jotham Ju.9:8-15 (2 of 2)

The olive tree mentioned is in a secular context. Israel as the people of the Law were part of the olive tree. The burning bush that did not consume itself stood in relation to the tree of life. By the same token this olive tree is set in context of the everlasting dominion of the Son. God called out as He did with Moses to be the tree of righteousness. Israel corrupted themselves. "Ephraim is smitten, their root is dried up, they shall bear no fruit: yea, though they bring forth, yet will I slay even the beloved fruit of their womb./My God will cast them away, because they did not hearken unto him: and they shall be wanderers among the nations.."(Ho.9:16-17) In their place the Gentiles have come in. They were grated to the tree. St Paul calls it is not a permanent damage or gain for the Israelites and the Gentiles respectively. "Even so then at this present time also there is a remnant according to the election of grace."(11:5) Election of grace is open for all in his Son. God is able to restore a remanant from Israel as well break off the Gentiles (Brances) that resist divine grace. So the churches need know on what they are grafted to.

"and if the root be holy, so are the branches." The church of Rome found the root of a pagan world empire to grow mighty. from it. Is the root holy? It is only like the tree that King Nebuchadnezzar saw in his dream.(Dan.4:11-14) "He cried aloud, and said thus, Hew down the tree, and cut off his branches, shake off his leaves, and scatter his fruit: let the beasts get away from under it, and the fowls from his branches."(4:14).The command of God "Shake off the leaves, and scatter his fruit" is what we see about us, so many sects, denominations and what do they want? Prosperity! Make America great Again, Watchmen's Creed white Evangelicalism. What else can you expect from a 'mighty' but dead tree?

"Then said all the trees unto the bramble, Come thou, and reign over us." Beware cedars!

Parable of Jotham Ju.9:8-15 (1 of 2)

The Vine, the Olive and the Fig

We shall look at the significance of these three mentioned in the Parable.

The vine in the parable did not want to lord over men. The joy that wine gave was unlike anything like wooing the ungovernable and wicked like the trouble sea. No one ever ruled over hoi polloi and laid aside reins unscathed. In nature rabble were like snarling dogs when checked. Oh no the vine that the Lord gave was heavenly. "The vine that makes the heart of men glad" (Ps.104:15) is associated with Jesus Christ, the true Vine. "I am the vine, ye are the branches: He that abideth in me, and I in him, the same bringeth forth much fruit: for without me ye can do nothing."( John 15:5)

Fig tree is a metaphor for Israel. "I found Israel like grapes in the wilderness; I saw your fathers as the firstripe in the fig tree at her first time:"(Hos.9:10)

Finally the olive tree is set down in the Bible for the Spirit found it as a tree planted by God. Its oil which make the grace of God work effectively so worship of man is found pleasing in His sight. God instructed Moses and we read thus: "The LORD make his face shine upon thee, and be gracious unto thee" (Nu.6:24)

The significance of face in the Scripture is spiritual interface between God and man.God a Spirit (and the invisible) assures,"I will instruct thee and teach thee in the way which thou shalt go: I will guide thee with mine eye."(Ps.32:8; "knowledge in the face of Jesus Christ"-2 Co.4:6)

'The Spirit moved upon the face of the waters.'Here face is where God can work with 'the waters'. So the olive tree is synonymous for man to know God and grow in the knowledge of the glory of God. The burning bush from which God called out Moses is an apt illustration. Having said this let us look at the olive tree mentioned by St Paul in Romans Ch.11. "but rather through their fall salvation is come unto the Gentiles, for to provoke them to jealousy."(11:11)

Hi Jema. I have to say I honestly don't understand your reasoning. If the 10 commandments were only for the Jews, then why do Gentiles obey 9 of them even today? You say to love God and others "hang on all the laws and prophets (which is true) then you negate that by saying they were only for the Jews?? Also, you and others in thus discussion keep calling the Commandments of God laws. They are not laws, those were the statues, ordinances and laws God gave to Moses to expand on the Commandments for the Jews to fully understand. If these Commandment and what He gave Moses weren't for the Gentils of the OT then what justification did God have to punish the heathen Gentils? He had justification because there were always men who believed and lived Godly lives from the time of Adam to tell them and show them. After the Commandments and laws were given they knew even more of God and who He was. Christ became the one and only needed sacrificial Lamb for our salvation, so, of course, sacrificial laws were done away with but, obviously, the 10 Comandments weren't. If you don't believe the 2 new Commandments that Jesus gave us don't teach us the same as the 10 Commandments then please give me a scriptural reason why and explain why we still obey them today. The reason the Commandments weren't laws is because laws can be rewritten, added to or abolished but the Commandments were written by God with His own hand and they can't be treated as laws unless mankind disobediently tries to unsuccessfully. My point about this whole discussion with everyone is God commands us to take a good, relaxing rest one day a week. It is a wonderful command. Way do believers not want to obey it? You can if you trust God to make the way.

What do you think, in the light of the scripture, is going to happen to Israel and the Jews?

God Bless :)

Hello again,

Please pray for us to choose our contractor wisely. We have two bids now, maybe a third. We just want to choose the one who will do good work in a timely way for us. as we repair the damage of the leak we had a week or so ago.

Hey Momsage, it is an exercise in futility. You see my "unkindness" earlier in this? As was mentioned before, you can tell the vast wisdom of scriptual "enlightenment" that some on here have acquired? Oh yes, massive dissertations, pages of deep understanding into the deepest depths of scripture. Knowledge far surpassing any of us, "childlike" people. 2 Peter 3:16 comes to mind. So smart and can't even discern Paul's teachings about the ceremonial law and the moral law. Shake the dust off your feet, I've been through this before, they too scared to walk out in faith in this truth, simple as that. Too busy "explaining" it away, the ONE commandment that starts with remember, these highly "skilled" deep thinking bible "scholars" try to teach people to forget. So be it, the Lord will judge.

If I'm misunderstanding what you are saying, I apologize. But if not, I find your comments very harsh and insulting to me as a true believer in Christ. To accuse me of these harsh things is hard to understand just because I am sure God intended for mankind to take a day off once a week and rest. I can't possible understand how you can believe the 10 commandments are not perfect, written by the hand of a perfect God. They are only given for the good of mankind from a good God. Jesus did give the 2 new commandments but he just simply combined the 10 into 2. The first one tells us to love God with all our hearts, minds and souls, this covers the first 4 of the 10; worship the one true God, do not use His name as a cuss word, don't worship false gods, and devote one day a week to rest in Him. The second one covers the last 6 which deals with treating your fellowman with how you would want to be treated; honor your parents, don't kill (ratsach: murder, slay) (even in your heart as Jesus also added), no adulatry (including in your heart as Jesus also added), no stealing, no lying ( little or big) and no coveting.

I was very hesitant to reply to you because of the unkind way you expressed your opinion, I wanted to ignore you, but I didn't because others will read your reply and I feel, in righteous indignation. that I need to debunk what you have accused me of. If you are going to accuse someone of being a heretic and holding on to garbage learned in a cult (I was never in a cult) you are being insulting and should not be on this forum which calls for kindness and love. You didn't do that. I am a true Christian, dedicated to my precious Lord and I do live my life as He would want me to based only on His word, and please don't come back with a snarky "you must think your perfect then," because I'm not. I do have my weaknesses and faults (not sins) but the Holy Spirit is always helping me to overcome them and is helping me to grow in the Lord. Again, if I am wrong, sorry.

Fear not according to a site online (I won't name it in case that is an issue) is listed 365 times in the Bible. I am aware of the message of the angels about Christ the Savior being born to the shepherds as the verse which Charles Schultz included in the famous Peanuts Christmas story when Linus dropped the security blanket as a symbolic gesture.

Of course Franklin Roosevelt gave the quote "the only thing we have to fear is fear itself." That is true to some extent; because the enemy of our souls can only do what God allows; but of course the fear of the Lord is the beginning of wisdom; which is found in numerous scriptural passages as well. It has been said that the opposite of fear is faith; and of course true love casts out fear ( 1 John 4:18). This is something only the Lord can give; for Jesus Himself had martyrdom to face daily; and Revelation 2:10 is one example given for the church; as well as the verse where Christ said to not fear what can be done to the body but the one who can cast body and soul into hell. ( Matthew 10:28). The enemy also likes to remind us as the accuser of the brethern of our sins and our condemnation which Christ took at the cross for true believers. (see Revelation 12:10). The Lord will convict us when we grieve the Spirit but that is out of love. The power of sin is death ( 1 Cor. 15:56). Jesus overcame death and the grave and took our sins on Himself at Calvary. We need to be daily reminded of these basic Gospel truths as we can become hardened to it for various reasons.

There is hope for us after death and hope is for things yet unseen ( Hebrews 11:1). Surely with the world in the state it is today we need that future expectation for any joy to be maintained; whether emotionally or as a fruit of the Spirit. Being part of the BODY of Christ is imperitive as to our identity so that we may together strive for unity in fulfilling the Great Commission and prayer and fellowship with one another for strength.

I need prayer for me and my son, for a financial breakthrough a job and home.

Dear God,

We come before you today with humble hearts and grateful spirits. We thank you for the blessings you have bestowed upon us, for the love you have shown us, and for the gift of life itself.

We pray for those who are suffering, and for those who need healing, comfort, and strength. May they feel your presence and know that they are not alone.

We pray for those who are struggling with fear, doubt, and uncertainty. May they find peace in your promises and hope in your unfailing love.

We pray for our world, for the leaders of our countries, and for those who work tirelessly to bring about justice, peace, and unity. May your wisdom guide them in all their decisions, and may they work towards the greater good of all people.

We ask all these things in your holy name, Amen.

Thanks so much for your replies to me , I have enjoyed reading them and appreciate your time and energy . One thing I would say is that not all the Jews rejected Jesus , the common people heard him gladly and the first Christians were of course , Jewish people . Thanks again , I always enjoy your posts .

"So God created man in his own image, in the image of God created he him; male and female created he them." Genesis 1:27 KJV

God made man in his image and when you look at male and female you will see God. Both are adopted and loved by God.

Jema,

From the discussion let me conclude by saying that God called us before the worlds began .

1. God's Will is complete

and the cloud of witnesses is a visible manifestation of the will of God. God's will would never need correction. But one third of the stars falling of applies believers who either received the Son and who shall abide in him by faith or rejected him. Three is a Command number to indicate the Son.

All the blessings of God continue from the sixth day. It is unstoppable. So when a voice from heaven announces,"Behold the tabernacle of God is among men" it is the body the Bride and it is descending to the mid-air. Jerusalem and Israel as political entities are finished. They are cast off as reprobate silver. (Re.21:3) God's Will is fulfilled by the Son. All those who were broken off were determined by their response to Christ Jesus.

2. Trees of righteousness is different than the Olive tree (Ro.11)

God blessed Abraham accordingly. "All families in earth do not mean Israel exclusively. (Ge.12:3) Abraham believed and it was counted to him for righteousness. Faith is the DNA that Israel did not show. Their rejection brings the Gentiles to the fore.

St Paul talks about grafting. It is about physical and not of the true Vine that Jesus Christ represents.

3. There is only one foundation for the Church

Wild olive branches carry Babylon, Medeo- Persia Rome. With the destruction of Jerusalem in 70 AD the miry clay refers to the Christian church founded on a pagan foundation, All the heresies that are being aired in this forum owe to the confusion. Miry clay is not of the body of Christ.

John 15:1-5 "true Vine" "Without me you can do nothing" This is addressed to miry clay who say they are Christians but rejecting the Power of God and the doctrine of Christ. What do they end up a mongrel church so Israel or USA as nations play prominent role. There are only two nations: nation of saints in light or children of wrath.

Asking for extra strong protection, peace, joy, love, strength, wisdom, righteousness, deliverance, healing, salvation (for those not saved), and an outpouring of the Holy Spirit for us and all in need.

Father please help Kevin, us and all in need. Thank you and praise you. In your holy name I pray Lord Jesus. Amen.

Thank you so much. May the Lord do the same for you and yours.

Jema,

You write about,"Israel is one nation . So in the old testament when God talks about Israel , He isn't just talking about physical Israel , the Jews , He's talking about us Christians also that have been grafted in."

When God talks about Israel he speaks about Christians as well. "That the Lord appeared to Solomon the second time, as he had appeared unto him at Gibeon./And the Lord said unto him, I have heard thy prayer and thy supplication, that thou hast made before me: I have hallowed this house, which thou hast built, to put my name there for ever; and mine eyes and mine heart shall be there perpetually. "(1 Ki.9:2-3) When the Spirit writes,'perpetually' or forever it is with reference to the Son. In the night vision of Daniel, we have God giving one like unto the Son of man, "And there was given him dominion, and glory, and a kingdom, that all people, nations, and languages, should serve him: his dominion is an everlasting dominion, which shall not pass away, and his kingdom that which shall not be destroyed." (Dan.7:13-14). Before the worlds began this everlasting kingdom has been given to the Son. Psalm 2 refers to the decree and his dominion.

However 'the Christians have been grated is not about the true Vine Christ was talking about. Olive tree is not vine. One is earthy and the other is heavenly. St Paul is talking about olive tree planted by God from which Israel has been broken off and 'wild olives' are graffed in. It is more appropriate in terms of grafting to think in terms of the king's dream where iron and miry clay try to fit with each other.

Another point to mention is the lost sheep of Israel they would have none of Jesus Christ. So the Spirit introduces Seventy other disciples ( Luke 10) there is no mention of Israel for a reason. They were cast off. Luke 10 refers to 'After these thing' He is referring to the kingdom of God. "No man, having put his hand to the plough, and looking back, is fit for the kingdom of God." (9:62)

I need prayers for the resentment I have please pray for me