All Discussion PAGE 138

please remember my daughter Jessica and her family in your prayers please remember me

I come before You today with a heavy heart. I pray for Your guidance and wisdom for a Person who is having a difficult time with her daughter.

Lord, grant them the patience to understand their daughter's perspective, the wisdom to guide her in the right direction, and the strength to stand firm in her decisions. Help her to communicate with love, respect, and clarity.

May Your peace that surpasses all understanding guard their hearts and minds in Christ Jesus. Let Your love be the bond that holds them together, and Your truth be the light that guides their path.

Help them to remember that they are not alone in this journey. You are with them, guiding and protecting them.

In Jesus' name, we pray. Amen.

Please pray for my parents and for my relationship with my parents. My marriage/divorce (narcissist) landed me with some deep seeded mental issues,anxiety/depression/ptsd/Anduncontrollable outbursts. I have recently moved in with my parents to try to regain custody of my two children. My parents are wonderful Christians however I feel like they do not understand the extreme trauma I have endured. It has scarred me to the core and some days it's enough just to make it thru the day without collapsing into a heap and giving up! I'm unemployed and having a hard time getting a job because of my anxiety and I have to pay my ex child support because after the depression he convinced the court I was mentally unstable demoting me to be the "noncustodial parent" and I will never be able to afford a place of my own when my ex is recieving well over half my wages which are measly minimum wage hence me moving in with my parents from being homeless.

My dad is very particular and likes things HIS way (he was a supervisor for 50yrs at an important military company in our city) he thinks I am lazy and making excuses, but I am up every day doing odd jobs/applying for jobs and taking care of my kids when I have them and busy living up to his strict standards of cleanliness with two (pre)teenage boys is no easy task! We had a disagreement this morning and I had an uncontrollable outburst that was well provoked by them and I pray that we can come to an understanding so they won't be so hard on me and learn to walk away and let me calm down if I'm not ready to talk about something immediately right when they want to discuss it. Respecting boundaries both ways. Thank you for your prayers!

Prayer for breakthrough in spiritual warfare, protection for my brother Micah to have safe protected Blessed travels going to and from, and Blessings over me to pass my test tomorrow and that I will remember and know all the answers to the test without any hindrances coming against me during my test and that I will have full endurance without getting tired though the whole test so I can pace myself well and pass my test in Lord Jesus Christ Name, Amen

Part 2.

The early Church.

The early Christians were loyal Jews; they worshiped daily in the Temple at Jerusalem; they attended services in the synagogue; they revered the law of Moses.

Notice in Acts 15 Paul did not try to persuade them to drop the Sabbath and start meeting on Sunday.

The dispute over the requirements of a Gentile Christian were resolved at the Council at Jerusalem and the Sabbath wasn't even brought up but the liberty we have in Christ for the Gentiles was on display. In other words, they weren't expected to be as zealous for the Jewish customs and rituals as the Jewish Christians were in the early Church.

Acts 15:22-24

Then pleased it the apostles and elders, with the whole church, to send chosen men of their own company to Antioch with Paul and Barnabas; namely, Judas surnamed Barsabas, and Silas, chief men among the brethren:

And they wrote letters by them after this manner; The apostles and elders and brethren send greeting unto the brethren which are of the Gentiles in Antioch and Syria and Cilicia:

Forasmuch as we have heard, that certain which went out from us have troubled you with words, subverting your souls, saying, Ye must be circumcised, and keep the law: TO WHOM WE GAVE NO SUCH COMMANDMENT:

In Moses law breaking many of these commandments was a death sentence!

Why aren't we so passionate to execute that?

Who would be alive?

Colossians 2:14-17 shows us how we were freed from the sentencing of the penalty of these laws that brought death instead of life.

Today it is not where or when you worship. It is HOW you worship.

John 4:21-24.

If you are born of the spirit, you are sons of God and has joined him in his rest.

God bless.

Worship in spirit and in truth.

Part 1.

Hi everyone, I would like to comment on the Sabbath rest mentioned in Exodus 20:10 and entering in that rest mentioned in Hebrews 4:10-11.

Israel as a Nation and under the Law did not enter in that rest and I will attempt to explain why.

There still remains a rest for the people of Israel. This speaks volumes on several topics; However, I would like to focus on one.

Now this is not the Church, we have joined him in his rest as mentioned here in Hebrews 4:3

Israel as a Nation stumbled as that Rock of offence by nonbelief. Yet for the most part they kept the Sabbath rest. Which was ritual pointing to one that could give them rest.

THE LAW WAS THE VIHICLE WHICH BROUGHT US TO THE ONE THAT CAN GIVE US REST!

Galatians 4:1-5. Now I say, That the heir, as long as he is a child, differeth nothing from a servant, though he be lord of all;

But is under tutors and governors until the time appointed of the father.

Even so we, when we were children, were in bondage under the elements of the world:

But when the fulness of the time was come, God sent forth his Son, made of a woman, made under the law,

To redeem them that were under the law, that we might receive the adoption of sons.

We join him in his rest by way of sonship.

So, what about the written articles of God? I will speak on that in a moment.

See Part 2. The early Church.

Please pray that I can pull my business through, after three and a half years of terrible numbers, due to Covid. This business has been going for over 45 years and I would hate to lose it now. Thank You

Thanks Momsage. I respect that you don't wish to continue this discussion on the Sabbath Day; though I don't see that we have reached an impasse, rather we are drawing closer to understanding each other, using Scripture & Church practise as our rule, as we eliminate spurious references to Sabbath Day or Sunday worship.

You wrote in another post that you provided much evidence to support the belief that the Church maintained its 'Sabbath Day worship' position. I may have missed it, as I only remember you quoted Constantine, the Laodicean Council, an RC Priest Enright, Jeremy Taylor, & maybe others. Yet, verifiable references were given you of men/writings such as Justin the Martyr, Ignatius of Antioch, the Didache (apostolic teachings), Clement of Alexandria, and others, who referred to Christians meeting on a Sunday rather than the Sabbath - all these were men who preceded the men/council you referred to. It is true that Sunday worship was ordered & ratified much later by those of the RC persuasion, but the point in this discussion is, where does the truth lie & does an RC edict cause all believers to blindly follow it? I would think that a lot more weight needs to be given to the testimony of those men (post-apostolic) & if not, then the reason(s) for their disallowance needs to be given.

And lastly, the Ten Commandments are a single unit of obedience & requirements for Israel, not given to Gentiles nor the Church. The breaking of even one of them meant judgement - for the Law could never give life ( Galatians 3:19-21). How many in the Church have converted that Law given only to Israel to now apply to the Church as well, still mystifies me (as I read how the Law, though holy & good, has now been abrogated through Christ's death). The point that should be discussed is the relationship of that old Law to the Law given us (applied to our hearts) by the Spirit, & why some choose to fuse the two together when it cannot be done. See Hebrews 7:12,18,19. GBU.

Thanks for your graciousness, Momsage.

I, too, am pretty straightforward. Some people appreciate this and some do not. We should always aim for harmony and graciousness, as you have to me, but it is true that at times, people can become upset about what someone says in a post. And the response to being upset can take many forms. We just need to be prayerful, humble, and ready to engage when it is helpful to do so and to disengage when it is best to do so. Have a good evening, Momsage. I like the way you describe us sitting down for a chat. Warms my heart.

Hello Momsage

Well I do feel that I owe to present my opinion scripturally. I have done it historically so far. About debating, it is true that we all like debating sometimes in order to "push" our beliefs to others and we all occasionally get passionate. So don't worry. Also do not feel obliged to respond.

But not today, I have no free time. Probably tomorrow. Have a blessed day. GBU

Hey Momsage, the truth is, they are all about the "commandments" until it comes to the 4th one. Sure, all the others are applicable, well.. of course, except this 4th one. Truth is, they don't have the spiritual "guts" to obey that one. Too scared they gonna look "funny".. or weird. They would rather throw out a bunch of scriptures out of context to hide behind; Rather than prayerfully try it out of obedience. Spiritual "whimps".. stay away from the "straight" gate.

Hi GiGi: What a mess you must be dealing with. It is a blessing the insurance will cover most of it and your husband is qualified to help with them. My prayers are with for a quick cleanup and settlement of this issue. Thank you for your comment . Seeing a post form you is like having a good friend knock on your door for a cup of coffee and chat, especially with homemade cinnamon rolls. Yum. The only reason I worry about my discussions as being to passionate is that I will offend someone but I hope I haven't. I state my view in a straightforward way so I may come across to abrupt sometimes. You are an uplifting part of this forum. God Bless :)

I know I wasn't going to comment any more on the Sabbath, so please forgive me, however, yes the laws of Moses were done away with because the Jews muddied them up so bad with their additions that they were no good anymore, but NOT the 10 Commandments (not laws) of God. These are two very different things. Worship is not in the commandment so worshipping on Sunday doesn't technically apply but to me it is a given to worship God and on the same day He set aside for us to cease all labor and REST. Denying the 4th commandment and by working on that day is disobeying God's COMMANDMENT. When the scriptures say God's commandments are not burdensome He meant it but man messed it up by changing it to Sunday because the world did, so today it is burdensome to worship and rest on Saturday. But man made it so, not God. If we had remembered to keep this commandment as God told us to, the church would not have followed the world and changed it to Sunday and then made excuses, especially by wrong interpretation of the scriptures, to do it their way. Chris and I have had long discussions about this and I know most believers think the Early Church changed it to Sunday but there is no verse that specifically says it was changed. I have provided much historical and scriptural truths to support that the Church did rest 0n the Sabbath from about 35-100AD, so you can find them if you want and see what is there. God Bless :)

Amen, Momsage,

We love each other here on this forum and we learn as we go along in our life in Christ how to discuss differences through the working of the Holy Spirit. I love a good, hearty discussion as much as the next person, and also think that some topics are understood more deeply when serious discussions take place. So, I am thankful for your contribution to this discussion on how e are to view the Sabbath commandment post cross and resurrection.

Have a good day. We have been out and about today looking for things we need to replace now due to the water damage we had from a plumbing leak last week. Glad the insurance company will be covering much of the damage (save our deductible and us being responsible for the pipe repair). This is the first kind of water damage incident we have had to face and also dealing with an insurance claim, although my husband was on the other side of claims as a job being a claims adjuster for his career.

I ask for prayers that everything will go smoothly in all ways.

How do we study the Bible?

A question we should ask ourselves; Do we study it with a confirmation bias? I know I have in the past and I must fight it every time I open the Bible. It is part of our subconscious mind; confirmation bias is when we study the Bible, we look for verses to confirm our existing beliefs, without even knowing it we ignore any Bible verses that conflict with what we believe.

Our existing beliefs are deeply entrenched in our subconscious mind, and our subconscious mind blocks the true meaning unless we accept that we may be wrong and in prayer make a sincere effort to come to the Scriptures with an open mind as we know nothing, praying for the truth with open ears, that we may hear.

Like stories we have heard from childhood, only two, a male and a female of each animal and bird went into the ark with Noah, or the wise men went to the manger when Jesus was a baby. Is that the truth? We must not automatically defend our beliefs without ever really questioning them, if not, the truth becomes harder to find.

1 John 4:1, we are told to test the spirits and many other Scriptures tell us to be aware of false prophets, and false teachers, 2 Corinthians 11:13-15. It is easy to start with a doctrine, or something we have been taught, or what we believe to find Scripture that will confirm it, but is that the true meaning that God inspired the writer to write?

I read and study the KJV, but we must be honest it is a translation and if something feels wrong in our heart, we must not ignore it. Whatever version we have we must trust it is the word of God and His Spirit will give us the understanding of it and shine light on the truth, not from our mind.

We can study in two ways, exegesis, considering the context, and God's intent, and open to the truth given to us through the Holy Spirit, or eisegesis by reading into it with one's own presuppositions, ideas, or the traditions of man.

Just a thought for the new year. Love you guys.

God bless,

RLW

Hi Oseas. I do want you to know I have ended my discussion with Chris, on the Sabbath,.we have come to an impass. I would, however answer your question after a time of study because I don't see what it has to do with the Sabbath. God Bless :)

Hi Giannis. As I just told Chris this discussion has come to an impass. I believe my problem is I like "debating" to tell what I believe with historical and scriptural proof with the responding debater using the same methods to refute what l just presented tat for tat bascially. But this is not what my discussion with Chris has been. I was debating he was discussion; apples and oranges. But he was doing what this forum calls for so I'm at fault. So I will not reply to discussions on the Sabbath anymore as it is getting us nowhere. I'll try in further posting on this forum to stick to discussions. God Bless :)

Hi Chris: It seems you and I have come to an impass. I will make one more comment and, of course, you can respond but for me I won't discuss the Sabbath anymore. I appreciate your having this discussion with me but, honestly, I feel it was a bit one-sided. I offered a lot of historical backup for proof of what I believe and scriptures too, but you didn't refute any of it with your own historical quotes or scriptures. You just basically kept repeating what you believe, like calling the commandments of God laws of God which include the other 9 so when Jesus broke us away from God's laws that must include the other 9. GiGi did help me understand the commandment doesn't say anything about the day to worship. To me that was just a given; to give God our full attention by fellowshipping with believers and focusing on the word of God on the same day we rested. That can be done on any day but the important part of the commandment is to cease from labor on Saturday (any day in your opinion) which the church no longer honors with the excuse God changed His mind and used His Son to abolish the 4th commandment for some reason.

God Bless :)

My son has a Cold, & He is sore. & His Thumb hurt.

Pray for Him. In The Name of Jesus Christ. Amen.

Asking for extra strong protection, strength, peace, love, joy, encouragement, wisdom, deliverance, healing, salvation (those not saved) for us and all in need. Also asking for a door to open to be able to change my job (night shift) if it is God's will.

Father please help them in accordance with your perfect will. Thank you. In Jesus name. Amen.

Thank you so much. May the Lord bless you and yours.

My friend's brother is missing since Thanksgiving. Her name is Tiffany Ryals. I'm trying to find out his name. Thank you for praying for her brother.

Momsage

Revelation 7:1-4 AND 9-12, says:

1 And after these things I saw four angels standing on the four corners of the earth, holding the four winds of the earth, that the wind should not blow on the earth, nor on the sea, nor on any tree.

2 And I saw another angel ascending from the east, having the seal of the living GOD: and he cried with a loud voice to the four angels, to whom it was given to hurt the earth and the sea,

3 Saying, Hurt not the earth, neither the sea, nor the trees, till we have sealed the servants of our GOD in their foreheads.

4 And I heard the number of them which were sealed: and there were sealed an hundred and forty and four thousand of all the tribes of the children of Israel. (These sealed 144K of each tribe of Israel are the remnant saved of the condemnation and eternal perdition- Luke 3:7 combined with 2 Thessalonians 2:8-12, among countless other biblical references).

On the other hand:

-verses 9-12 combined with Revelation 19:6-10

9 I beheld, lo, a great multitude, which no man could number, of all nations, and kindreds, and people, and tongues, stood before the throne, and before the Lamb, clothed with white robes, and palms in their hands;

10 And cried with a loud voice, saying, Salvation to our GOD which sitteth upon the throne, and unto the Lamb.

11 And all the angels stood round about the throne, and about the elders and the four beasts, and fell before the throne on their faces, and worshipped GOD,

12 Saying, Amen: Blessing, and Glory, and Wisdom, and Thanksgiving, and Honour, and Power, and Might, be unto our GOD for ever and ever. Amen.

Momsage, the question is:

Who are the great multitude, which no man can number, of all nations, and kindreds, and people, and tongues, stand before the throne, and before the Lamb, clothed with white robes, and palms in their hands? And they cry with a loud voice, saying, Salvation to our GOD which sitteth upon the throne, and unto the Lamb.

Yes, who are them, Momsage?

Lauren,

I said a prayer for your family restoration in 2024. We are in agreement with GOD the Father, GOD the Son and GOD the Holy Spirit that this marriage be restored and continue to flourish and thrive with GOD"s grace. We declare restoration and a long life of family togetherness.

please remember me and my daughter and her family in your prayers today

Thanks for your reply Momsage. I couldn't detect the Church ever coming together to worship the LORD on the Sabbath from the references you gave. So it seems that neither we nor yourself can scripturally prove that the Church met on either the Sabbath or the Sunday (what is otherwise called the Lord's Day: Revelation 1:10). Therefore, we cannot appeal to the Word to resolve the matter, but to what was understood & practised in the years that followed the closing of the Scriptures. I won't go into that as both Giannis & GiGi have given sufficient evidence from the writings of those post-apostolic Church saints that the Church met together on the Lord's Day (Sunday), well before the Roman Catholic Church came into existence. And if we, as the Church, choose to worship on a Sunday, do so because of what we learn from early Church practise and not from some papal or council edict.

So, the question remains: if this be the case, why did the Church reject the Sabbath (also being the day set aside by the Jews to attend the synagogue), to meet together to break bread & worship the Lord on the first day of the week? Could it be that the Church (founded on apostolic teaching) no longer identified with the Law given by God to Israel, from which no salvation or release from sin's grip could be found, but rather attended to the Law given by the Spirit of God, which now gave both understanding & power to serve God acceptably? Maybe, what the Apostle Paul believed & preached, was also adhered to by the Church: in Romans 7:4-6 Paul stated, 'we are dead to the Law by the Body of Christ - now being delivered from the Law in which we remained dead, but now serve God in newness of spirit and not the oldness of the letter'. And this was written to remind Jewish believers that they (not Gentiles) were once under the (whole) Law, but now freed from its intended purpose & punishment as its goal, to serve God by the Spirit covered by Christ's Blood, which the Law could never do.

Please pray for my son Robert to be healed on what he is struggling with and protection from evil Please and for Holy Spirit strength and for him to keep Growing in our Lord Jesus Christ and keep being kind caring respectful humble and be able to be around his brother and sister and their family again and not believe lie the enemy tells him and rightly discern the word of God a job that he will be around Godly people who serve the Lord Jesus Christ and will help him Grow strong in Jesus christ and a job that will glorify God our Heavenly Father . Robert to sleep in peace knowing God is protecting him always thank you soo much

Hi GiGi: Yes I am passionate about this topic maybe a little more then I should be but when I see God's church disobeying His commandment it is so sad to me. You are right the commandment doesn't specifically say to worship on the sabbath. I guess to me that is a given because it's the day He sanctified to Himself. I just can't let the idea that the early church, during the Apostolic period 35 to 100 AD, abandoned the 4th commandment right after Jesus' death and started worshiping on Sunday. I do have complete faith in God that His church will be in complete unity when He returns so maybe by us discussing these things it can help us to reach that unity, although it may not look like it now. LOL Thank for replying to me. You always make me feel good. God Bless ;)

I will pray for you before I retire to bed tonight. I so can relate to how you are feeling. I pray that your throat will stay clear and stop swelling as that is a serious symptom. Try to drink lots of plain water, maybe with a touch of honey. Ginger tea can be

soothing.