Viewing page: 139 of 6006
< Previous Discussion Page Next Discussion Page >
129 130 131 132 133 134 135 136 137 138 139 140 141 142 143 144 145 146 147 148
Posting comments is currently unavailable due to high demand on the server.
Please check back in an hour or more. Thank you for your patience!
No matter what church group we affiliate with there is always the possibility of wrong teaching and practice to creep in and be widely accepted. I have seen it happen many times in my lifetime in many different church groups.
The Eastern Orthodox and Roman Catholic Church became more and more institutionalized and hierarchical over the years and this did not prevent them from falling into error and corruption. ALL church groups can learn a lesson from what happened to the universal church over the centuries and be very careful about what they teach from the pulpit, what is taught in Sunday School, in home Bible Studies, and in personal study and practicing one's faith daily.
You have done well in this conversation with Momsage. It is up to her to do with the information she found and we supplied according to how the Spirit leads her.
Acts 16:13, Acts 17:2 Acts 18:4
"Protestants do not realize that by observing Sunday they accept the authority of the Spokesperson, the Pope." ( Our Sunday Visitor February 5, 1950.)
No one here is asking you to worship on Sunday instead of Saturday. You are free to use Saturday as your day of worship.
Giannis has given you some historical information that indicates that it was customary in the early decades of the church at the time of the apostles and shortly after to come together on Sunday, the Lord's Day, to worship.
If one wishes to follow the example of the early church and attend church services on Sunday that is fine. The Scriptures do not tell us what day to meet together for worship.
The Sabbath commandment was for a time of rest from work, not a call to come together to worship. At the time of the giving of the command on Sinai there were no synagogues (these came into being during the Babylonian exile along with rabbis and Pharisees, Sadducees, and teachers of the law). It was also in the Babylonian exile that all the Sabbath additions to the original command were instituted. So, in the time of Jesus, going to the synagogue on Saturday was considered the norm as long as one did not have to travel more that these "requirements" allowed. (This restriction on travel was one reason that there were so many synagogues and teachers). The people were only required to go to the temple a few times per year.
I think that in this conversation you have presented your point of view well and others such as Giannis and I have also presented our views well. It may be best to leave it at that and let others consider both views and decide according to their conscience as the Holy Spirit leads them.
I do understand that your are very passionate about this topic. We should be serious about our worship. Since there is not a biblical verse that tells us what day we HAVE to attend worship services, I think that we can worship any and every day of the week, either singularly or corporately, according to the lead of the Holy Spirit.
I love your zeal, Momsage. We all have topics that mean a great deal to us.
a. It is possible that Lot had four daughters: two were still living at home with their parents ( Genesis 19:12, when the angels asked Lot if he had any other 'family' besides those they could see there with him; and Genesis 19:15, the angels urged Lot to quickly bring out his wife & his two daughters WHICH ARE HERE, i.e. present in the house with them). So, maybe from these verses we can assume that Lot had four daughters: two virgins living with him & two living with their husbands, & these could have perished with their husbands because of their refusal to leave Sodom.
b. The other possibility is that Lot only had two daughters, but they were not married to their (future) husbands, but were betrothed to them. As you probably know, that in those days & in that culture, when two people were bethrothed (engaged) to each other, they were considered as a married couple, only because of the binding commitment that such an engagement required, & not by actually living & sleeping together. We can remember the account of Joseph & Mary ( Matthew 1:18,19) where Joseph's espousal to Mary was considered as a marriage, though they didn't live together, yet, Joseph was still intending to "put away" (divorce) Mary for her supposed infidelity. But the Angel of the Lord intervened quick smart to stop him acting foolishly.
You can examine these options before you & decide for yourself. My leaning is to the latter, of Job having only two daughters, betrothed to men, but choosing to leave them in preference to what the Angel had warned them concerning God's Wrath over the city.
as to what the devil's next step is in creating this show? I'm sure most of you have seen the ads on TikTok promoting the app
Hallow by, guess who, Jonathan Roumie. This app promotes Catholicism with praying the rosary, for one thing, as being a
complete worship of Mary. Blatant idolatry. Jonathan Roumie is now a famous man with many ardent followers and his intention
is to convert as many poor souls to this terrible religion as he can. I knew the TV show was just the beginning of something like
this when found out he was a devote Catholic. One viewer commented he loved listening to him because he had such a
soothing, peaceful voice. Do you suppose the devil can use a soothing, peaceful voice to fool souls? I pity Jonathan Roumie and
am praying earnestly that he will find true salvation, leave this church and denounce it. Only God knows.
11And they overcame him by the blood of the Lamb,and by the word of their TESTIMONY;and they loved not their lives unto the death.
12Therefore rejoice,ye heavens(heavenly places in Christ JESUS-i.e. the celestial environments of the Old and New Testaments),and ye that dwell in them-the believers-.Woe to the inhabiters of the earth(Israel)and of the sea!(sea/waters=peoples,and NATIONS,and multitudes of all tongues-Gentile peoples-which were deceived by that old serpent that deceives the whole world)for the Devil is come down unto you,having great wrath,because he knows that he has but a short time.13And when the dragon saw that he was cast unto the earth(from the heaven- Isaiah 14:12-15),he persecuted the woman...
14And to the woman were given TWO WINGS of a great eagle(the Old Testament and New Testament-two witnesses of GOD- Revelation 11:3-4.Take a kook),that she might fly into the wilderness, into her place,where she is nourished(by the Old and New Testaments-the Word of GOD,the Scriptures)for a time,and times, and half a time,from the face of the serpent.
15And the serpent cast out of his mouth water as a flood after the woman(be careful,don't drink of that water),that he might cause her to be carried away of the flood.
16And the earth(144K of Israel- Revelation 7:1-10 and 14:1-5.Take a look)helped the woman(the Lord's Church- John 10:15-16),and the earth opened her mouth,and swallowed up the flood which the dragon cast out of his mouth.
17 And the dragon was wroth with the woman,and went to make war with the remnant of her seed,which keep the commandments of God, and have the testimony of Jesus Christ. -The testimony of Christ is the Spirit of prophecy-Re.19:10 combined with Ro.8:9-11.GET READY
The Holy Catholic Church was involved in changing the sabbath to Sunday, these historical quotes, among others, proves it.
"The PRIMITIVE (my emphasis) Christians did keep the Sabbath of the Jews before the Christians for a long time together, did keep their convocations upon the Sabbath in which some portions of the law were read and this continued till the time of the Laodician Council." The whole Works of Jeremy Taylor, Vol. IX p416
"It was the Holy Catholic Church that changed the day of rest form Saturday to Sunday, the first day of the week. And it not only compelled all to keep Sunday, but at the Council of Laodician, AD 364, anathematized (cursed) those who kept the Sabbath and urged all persons to labor on the 7th day under penalty of anathema (excommunication.)" Catholic Priest T. Enright,
CSSRR, Kansas city, Mo (The Holy Catholic Church was involved with Laodicean Council , taking serious steps to put a stop to Christians still worshipping on the sabbath hundred of years after Christ.)
Please use scripture and historical proof for your comments. GOD COMMANDED us to rest and worship Him on one particular day of the week in one particular way. As for me I choose to obey God not man.
God Bless :)
We need to understand that we can criticize someone without condemning them.
As I understand it, to "condemn" someone means to pronounce that they are lost and going to hell.
But if someone says to you, "I think you're wrong on this issue," They have not condemned you.
We live in a culture where criticism is not popular. If you criticize anyone, you're labeled judgmental, hypocritical, and pharisaical.
In the Christian community we need to be criticized or corrected, "when we are doing something wrong, when we are neglecting some good thing we should be doing. when we are teaching something that is false. ect ect..
Scripture should always be the standard by which we criticize/reprove and make sure you are the right person to do the criticizing.
When We Criticize, We Need to do it with Love and probably in person, "Not a letter"
As it pertains to "condemning," there is certainly a time when we should express to people that they are in a lost condition. If someone is not "in Christ,"
The bible certainly can be used in this area!
There is lots of Scripture on the behavior of a true believer.
" Romans 6:1-4 comes to mind.
We have to tell them the truth!
He that rebuketh a man afterwards shall find more favour than he that flattereth with the tongue. Proverbs 28:23).
I would rather display my love by telling them the truth and risk losing them as a friend than to tell them nothing and risk seeing them continue in a Sin that can send them to Hell.
Perhaps you can ease them into a conversation on Salvation and ask them are they saved, and their answer will give you a starting point.
Don't forget to ask them, "By what means"
PS. A unsaved person needs to know the work of Christ on the cross.
A saved person, "or one that profess to be saved needs to understand the work of the Holyspirit.
Good luck and God bless.
It is true that the church who was established by Jesus on Pentecost, along the centuries slowly but steadily departed from their initial faith and doctrines. Both the R Catholic church and the Eastern Orthodox church became secular churches whose function does not result in leading people to Christ and save them from distruction, although there is a small fraction in both churches who love Jesus and strive to live according to the Bible, although they follow some wrong traditions and practises. I think the Orthodox church stands closer to the truth than the R/Catholics but still...
But just because those churches are now away from the truth, that doesn't mean that they were always like that. And we cannot definitely reject all the early christians and their writtings especially those who lived at the same time or shortly after the apostles. Their writtings can shed light on the practises and beliefs of that ancient church. Sunday/Lord's Day was very soon separated as a the main day of them meeting to pray and teach and have holy communion, it is very obvious in their writtings. In addition their writtings are not in any contrast with the Bible. In the Book of Acts it is very evident that the apostles tought people not to follow the Old Testament's ordinances including Sabbath. The Jews who became christians did actually keep the Sabbath as well as all the Mosaic Law but that was not right and was only tolerated by the apostles in Jerusalem. Paul was not in agreement to that tolerance and tought the Jews who were spread among the nations that the Law was abolished and there was not any need to keep any of those ordinances as they were in contrast with our Lord's grace. I hope that bothers who still keep the Sabbath may sometime realize that the do something which is not right It is good to stand as close to the truth as possible. GBU
It may bring some comfort to you that your daughter did not suffer for a long time, 2 and a half months later God took her in Heaven.
1 Thessalonians 4:13-14,
"But I would not have you to be ignorant, brethren, concerning them which are asleep, that ye sorrow not, even as others which have no hope.
For if we believe that Jesus died and rose again, even so them also which sleep in Jesus will God bring with him."
You will see your daughter again and this time you will never be separated from her.
God Bless You and your husband.
So it is obvious that Constantine issued a Law for all populations and religions in his empire concerning a rest day during the week. He prefered a day that the pagans celebrated the God Sun, the Day of the Sun, which also coincided with the already existing rest day of the christians, the Lord's Day. So there was a common day of rest for all peoples and religions.
Next we will talk Biblically.
And something you must know. In early church books one may encounter the term "catholic". Catholic is a greek word which means universal, and with that meaning it must be understood when reading those writtings. It is about the early united universal church. The early christians called their church as "The One Holy and Catholic(universal) and Apostolic(descending from the Apostles) Church". It had nothing to do with the later established Roman Catholic church who included the term catholic in their title with the purpose to claim that only them were the true universal church. It was just one fraction of the early church. So do not misunderstand the term catholic in those early writtings, it was not about the Papacy.
GBU
Lets talk historically, not Biblically
On the 7th of March 321 AD, Constantine ordered Roman citizens to honor the "Day of the Sun", so it became an official holiday and a rest day. But only for those who lived in the city. Those in the countryside were excluded from it.
His first Sunday Law states, "All judges and city people and the craftsmen shall rest upon the venerable day of the sun. Country people, however, may freely attend to the cultivation of the fields, because it frequently happens that no other days are better adapted for planting the grain in the furrows or the vines in trenches. So that the advantage given by heavenly providence may not for the occasion of a short time perish".
As it can be seen from the above Constantine's Law had nothing to do with christians or Jews, they are not mentioned in his Sunday Law's (there were two of them). His Laws concerned all people, pagans and christians. Also it can be seen that the rest day of Sunday has nothing to do with Sabbath as it was allowed for farmers to work in the fields, something forbidden during the Sabbath, so it is obvious that Sunday was not a substitute for Sabbath.
At that time Constantine held the title of Pontifex Maximus, the highest title of a priest in the Roman pagan religion. Also at that time christians called Sunday as Lord's Day (the greeks still do). From the references I gave you in my post yesterday it can be seen that for Christians the Lord's Day was already a holiday for about 250 years before Constantine's Sunday Laws.
, ' , , , . , ( ), .
[26] 3 321.
His ways are not our ways.
Nonetheless, the loss of our only child is devastating. I would have given my life for hers. Even one of my sisters said that Monique was too young to die and that she would give her life for hers.
The relationship between a mother and a daughter is indescribable. The bond, the love forever and ever, the devotion, the friendshipI could go on and on.
Thank you once again and God bless you and your family.
Eating food and regular activities began to become hard and I can't even sleep well
Please pray for my health
I know the world has made it very hard for true believers to honor the 4th commandment. The other nine are getting that way too, but does that excuse us from obeying them? Again how do we justify ignoring the 4th commandment and not the other nine? Jesus' rest is a spiritual rest, the commandment is a physical, mental and spiritual rest. One doesn't replace the other. No scripture says that. There's no wrong in worshiping on Sunday and relaxing but the commandment was for the seventh day; Saturday so it must be done on that day also if we are to be obedient to what God wants us to do. You say I'm being legalistic? Well, I'm not going to worship another God, or take God's name in vain, or build idols to worship, or to not honor my parents, or to murder, or lie (not even little white ones) or to steal or to be jealous, is that being legalistic? If so then I love being legalistic and obeying God's commandments and that is why I worship and rest on Saturday. Each commandment is clear including the 4th. It is so simple, however, we've let the world command us to what day we worship and rest. However, even that has pretty well fallen along the wayside. Our disregard for resting on the sabbath has brought us to a place where we disregard ceasing our labor in any way that resembles what God commanded us to do even on Sundays and the world is suffering because of it
God Bless :)
I am not a part of any church or denomination.
Constantine and the Catholic Church made it mandatory to worship on Sunday.)
I know the world has made it very hard for true believers to honor the 4th commandment. The other nine are getting that way too, but does that excuse us from obeying them? Again how do we justify ignoring the 4th commandment and not the other nine? Jesus' rest is a spiritual rest, the commandment is a physical, mental and spiritual rest. One doesn't replace the other. No scripture says that. So worship and relax ,on Sunday but the commandment was for the seventh day; Saturday so it must be done on that day if we are to be obedient to what God wants us to do. You say I'm being legalistic? Well, I'm not going to worship another God, or take God's name in vain, or build idols to worship, or to not honor my parents, or to murder, or lie (not even little white ones) or to steal or to be jealous either, is that being legalistic? If so then I love being legalistic and obeying God's commandments and that is why I worship and rest on Saturday. Each commandment is clear including the 4th. It is so simple, however, we've let the world command us to what day we worship and rest. However, even that has pretty well fallen along the wayside. Our disregard for resting on the sabbath has brought us to a place where we disregard ceasing our labor in any way that resembles what God commanded us to do even on Sundays and the world is suffering because of it.
God Bless :)
I am not part of any denomination.
SEE BELOW
"Constantine published the Edict of Milan, granting freedom of religion in the empire and establishing Sunday a day of worship" Collier Encyclopedia, vol 7, p. 212
"It was the Holy Catholic Church that changed the day of rest form Saturday to Sunday, the first day of the week. And it not only compelled all to keep Sunday, but at the Council of Laodician, AD 364, anathematized (cursed) those who kept the Sabbath and urged all persons to labor on the 7th day under penalty of anathema (excommunication.)" Catholic Priest T. Enright,
CSSRR, Kansas city, Mo (Obviously the Catholic Church was present in 364 AD to take part in what the Laodician Council was doing to change the sabbath to Sunday.)
"The Bible says remember that thou keep holy the Sabbath day. The Catholic Church says No! By my divine power I abolish the Sabbath day and command you to keep holy the first day of the week. and low the entire civilized world bows down in reverent obedience to the command of the Holy Catholic Church." American Sentinel, Father Enright, 1893 (This quote is from 1893 not what he is saying in his quote.)
Nothing in these verses below tells us to replace the Sabbath with the beautiful rest of Jesus. We are steadfastly in His rest as long as we are true believers.
Matthew 11:28-29 "Come unto me, all ye that labour and are heavy laden, and I will give you rest. Take my yoke upon you, and learn of me; for I am meek and lowly in heart: and ye shall find rest unto your souls."
Acts 2:26 "Therefore did my heart rejoice, and my tongue was glad; moreover also my flesh shall rest in hope."
Thessalonians 1:6-7 "And to you who are troubled rest with us, when the Lord Jesus shall be revealed from heaven with his mighty angels."
1 Corinthians 16:2 "Upon the first day of the week let every one of you lay by him in store, as God hath prospered him, that there be no gatherings when I come." (Paul is just asking the church to gather donations on the first day of each week for when he comes, it doesn't in any way point to them having to be in church to do this.)
Romans 14:5 "And upon the first day of the week, when the disciples came together to break bread, Paul preached unto them, ready to depart on the morrow; and continued his speech until midnight."(Question? Does your church only meet on Sunday to fellowship and hear preaching and teaching? This verse is just speaking of believers gathering on a Sunday to fellowship and listen to Paul preach because he had to leave the next day. It doesn't interpret as abolishing their regular worshiping on the Sabbath.)
Genesis: 2:2-3 " Thus the heavens and the earth were finished and all the host of them. And on the seventh day God ended his work which he had made and he rested on the seventh day from all his work which he had made." Exodus 20:8 "Remember the sabbath day to keep it holy."
"seventh" shebiith: an ordinary number
"rested" sabath: cease, desist, rest
"sanctified, holy qadash consecrate
"sabbath" sabath intermission
These verses speak of the 4th commandment that God gave (not asked) us to obey to honor Him by resting on the seventh day. God saw this need for us, in order to refresh our bodies, minds and souls. He gave us the other nine, also, for our good. The world, unfortunately, has decided to disregard this commandment so there is no sanctified or consecrated day anymore given only to the Lord to worship Him and for ourselves to enjoy. Believers should recognized that God, not only gave this wonderful commandment to us for our good, but He emphasized it by commanding we remember it. However, He knew it would fall along the wayside. He knew believers would excuse away abstaining from labor on the Sabbath by this and that and the other thing. Believers try to use the scripture to excuse themselves from obeying this commandment but it is just as imperative for a believer to believe and obey this 4th commandment as it is for them to believe and obey the other nine. These commandments are of God. God wrote the them on tablets Himself. After that He gave Moses laws, statues and ordinances to help the people further understanding these commandments. These commandments are the foundation of our walk with God. Because the people had added to the Laws of Moses in many foolish ways these are what Jesus rid the world of when He came, but He didn't, in any way, abolish or change God's commandments. When God gave All His 10 commands to the race of Adam it was for always
God the Spirit sets his Will of God as sovereign and perfect. Significant was that the Son taught us how to pray so we first put ourselves subject to his Will. "Thy kingdom come, Thy will be done in earth, as it is in heaven (Matt.6:10). So everything works accordingly. Principle of Similitude sets entire kingdom on this principle.
"On Judgment"
Judgement of the world is predetermined so God sets the years of man in multiples of ten. 120 years are not counted in terms of earth time but according to the eternal word settled in heaven. (Ge.6:3). Noah secured salvation for his family because he built the Ark to God's specification. So the Spirit gives us the day his salvation took effect. "In the six hundredth year of Noah's life, in the second month, the seventeenth day of the month, the same day were all the fountains of the great deep broken up, and the windows of heaven were opened." (Ge.7:11).
"In the selfsame day entered Noah, and Shem, and Ham, and Japheth, the sons of Noah, and Noah's wife, and the three wives of his sons with them, into the ark" (v.13) Now is the day of salvation.
In the end times we have judgment as pre-set from heaven. On command from above we have this," Loose the four angels, which are bound in the great river Euphrates./And the four angels were loosed, which were prepared for an hour, and a day, and a month, and a year, for to slay the third part of men." (Re.9:14-15)
Comparing passages are to be done on the basis of this principle so how do we settle this verse given here below? "But, beloved, be not ignorant of this one thing, that one day is with the Lord as a thousand years, and a thousand years as one day." (2 Pe.3:8). This is to show the ways of man are different from that of God. The Lord will come as a thief as Apostle Peters speaks further down. (v.10)
3Blessed be the GOD and Father of our Lord Jesus Christ,which according to His abundant mercy has begotten us again unto a lively hope by the resurrection of Jesus Christ from the dead,
4To an inheritance incorruptible, and undefiled, and that fades not away,reserved in heaven for you(->Come up hither- look,behold,a door was/is opened in heaven)
5Who are kept by the power of GOD through faith unto salvation ready to be revealed in the last time(this time arrived).
10 Of which salvation the prophets have enquired and searched diligently, who prophesied of the grace that should come unto you:
11Searching what, or what manner of time the Spirit of Christ which was in them did signify, when it testified beforehand the sufferings of Christ, and the glory that should follow.
12Unto whom it was revealed, that not unto themselves, but unto us they did minister the things, which are now reported unto you by them that have preached the gospel unto you with the Holy Spirit sent down from heaven;which things the angels desire to look into.
13Wherefore gird up the loins of your mind,and hope to the end for the grace that is to be brought unto you at the revelation of Jesus Christ;(Dan.12:3-they that be wise shall shine as the brightness of the firmament; and they that turn many to righteousness as the stars for ever and ever)
John 2:13-19
Having my Lord JESUS went up to Jerusalem,and seeing the Temple full of sellers of animals and birds,so He expelled them out of the Temple,saying: make not my Father's house an house of merchandise.The Jews said:What sign shew thou unto us, seeing that thou do these things?Jesus said:Destroy this temple,in THREE DAYS(THIRD DAY)I will raise it up. JESUS spake of the temple of His body(the Church).Re.1:7-8: ->7Behold,He comes with clouds;every eye shall see Him,and they also which pierced Him:...
8I am Alpha and Omega,the beginning and the ending,saith the Lord, which is,and which was,and which is to come,the Almighty.
9The Lord said unto Moses, Lo, I come unto thee in a thick cloud;
10 Go unto the people, and sanctify them to day and to morrow, and let them WASH their clothes,
11And be ready against the THIRD DAY: for the THIRD DAY the Lord will come down in the sight of all the people...
14 And Moses went down from the mount unto the people, and sanctified the people; and they washed their clothes.
15 And he said unto the people, Be ready against the THIRD DAY: come not at your wives.
16 And it came to pass on the THIRD DAY in the morning(IN THE TURN OF THE DAY), that there were thunders and lightnings, and a thick cloud upon the mount, and the voice of the trumpet exceeding loud; so that all the people that was in the camp trembled. (Compare with 1Thessalonians 4:16. Take a look).
17 And Moses brought forth the people out of the camp to meet with GOD; and they stood at the nether part of the mount.
18 And mount Sinai was altogether on a smoke, because the Lord descended upon it in fire: and the smoke thereof ascended as the smoke of a furnace, and the whole mount quaked greatly.
19 And when the voice of the trumpet sounded long, and waxed louder and louder...
Moses spake, and GOD answered him by a voice.
Revelation 11:15 -
15 And the seventh angel sounded; and there were great voices in heaven, saying, The kingdoms of this world are become the kingdoms of our Lord, and of his Christ; and he shall reign for ever and ever.
1 In the beginning GOD created the heaven(s)(the 1st, 2nd and 3rd heavens, and the heaven of the heavens) and the earth.
26 And GOD said, Let us make man in our image, after our likeness:...
27 So GOD created man in His own image, in the image of GOD created He him; male and female created He them.
28 And GOD blessed them, ...
31 And GOD saw every thing that He had made, and, behold, it was very good. And the evening and the morning were the sixth Day.
Remember: GOD calleth those things which be not as though they were. JESUS came in the fouth GOD's Day or around 4000 years after Adam, and He said: John 5:17-My Father worketh hitherto, and I work (of course, it was still the 4th GOD's Day. In fact, the sixth GOD's Day (6000 years after Adam) it just finished, therefore, Now, even now, from now on, will be fulfilled LITERALLY Luke 20:35-36 combined with Philippians 3:20-21 and 1 Corinthians 15:24-28 and 51-55. Take a look. The Word is GOD, self-executing/executable, understand? GET READY)
Ro.4:16-17
16Therefore it is of faith, that it might be by grace; to the end the promise might be sure to all the seed; not to that only which is of the Law, but to that also which is of the faith of Abraham; who is the father of us all,
17(As it is written, I have made thee a father of many nations,) before him whom he believed, even GOD, who quickeneth the dead, and calleth those things which be not as though they were.
Heb.4:3-13
3For we which have believed do enter into rest,as he said,As I have sworn in my wrath,if they shall enter into my rest:although the works were finished from the foundation of the world(as written in Genesis1)
4 For He spake in a certain place of the seventh Day on this wise, And GOD did rest the seventh Day from all His works.
The kingdoms OF THIS WORLD are become the kingdoms of our Lord, and of His Christ; and He shall reign for ever and ever-Re.11:15. THE NATIONS WILL BE ANGRY, but GOD's WRATH comes... Re.11:18.