All Discussion PAGE 1745

Why were the disciples offended to the point of abandoning Jesus when he said "eat my flesh and drink my blood" ,if it was only a symbol? When Jesus says it again he says it more strongly not less. He doesn't say it's a symbol. He says "Eat/gnaw on my flesh". Seems like the Jews/disciples were completely grossed out and scandalized and though they had seen all Jesus's miracles ,chose to abandon him.

Sis Gnostics were really out there they were playing with a combination of mysticism and off the wall spiritualism, Judaism was basically wrapped up in legalistic law i.e. if you don't do this or that your not holy, pharresitic thinking.

In the dark ages mysticism took hold and really went nuts.

Gigi I was water baptised at 13 years old, I was born again at 21 years old, my simple question is this why would I have to to something external when I'm already spiritual clean internally. I am not opposed to water baptism but spiritually the individual won't be changed until they confess Romans 10:9+10 and believe and walk. When the apostle Paul was born again and went to Jerusalem this is what they fought over old testament law whether circumcision or water baptism or what you ate or who you ate with all legalistic practices. If I go to a church and the place looks all nice with nice flowers but no rightly divided word of God, so what. If I go to a house fellowship and someones teaching Hot Bible and your spiritually energized I know where I'm going. Also Im a great believer in judge not for thou shalt be judged, I lived next door to a witch and a warlock supposedly only God knows there hearts, had the privilege of sharing some bible, when they moved they were blessed to have us as neighbors because we didn't judge them. We don't know if down the road they will remember and run into another believer walking in love and then they change.

Re. Numbers 21:6 = And the LORD sent fiery serpents among the people, and they bit the people; and much people of Israel died.

Of great interest, even though the term "fiery" reads like an adjective in the English, it actually translates from the Hebrew noun saraph (Eng. transliteration; pronounced "saw-RAWF").

The same Hebrew word translated here into "fiery" also translates into the word "seraphims" twice in Isaiah (note: the modern proper spelling of this plural noun is "seraphim").

In Isaiah, the term "seraphim" identifies a certain class of angelic entities of whom Prophet Isaiah witnessed as recorded in Isaiah Chapter Six. Other than having "six wings " ( Isa. 6:2), Isaiah provided no additional information regarding their personal appearance.

If Isaiah witnessed the holy seraphim honoring and praising JEHOVAH GOD, Bible students must also conclude a certain number of seraphim followed Satan in his rebellion and fall.

The very Hebrew word "saraph" literally means "the burning ones". If these angelic seraphim have a visual appearance of fire (cp. 2Ki. 6:17), then these "fiery serpents" may have been demonic in nature. It is not considered a stretch to wonder if GOD gave seraph demons permission to punitively torment the Israelites much like HE gave Satan permission to test Job ( Job 1:12; 2:6).

If this scenario were true, then the term "fiery" may describe their visual nature and appearance rather than the painful intensity of their bite.

Since GOD's Word contains no coincidences, and HIS Word communicates HIS earthly and Heavenly Designs, Purposes, and Will, then Bible students, expounders, hermeneutics, and commentarians simply cannot overlook and ignore the terminology of the word "fiery" in this context. It certainly demands deep examination and exploration while avoiding being overly dogmatic.

The bite of these "fiery serpents" typifies "the fiery darts of the wicked" ( Eph. 6:16).

Thanks, Rick, for all of your dialogue with me. I appreciate a good discussion. The early church leaders, apostles, bishops, etc. wrote often to congregations they were overseeing. They also wrote a great deal of letters back and forth among leaders to look at teachings from every angle, even when there was much agreement, but some slight differences. The church had to wrestle with how to teach on Jesus' dual nature. Some heretics were saying he was only human, others, only divine, others incarnating only in a spiritual body. Other leaders were communicating with one another, trying to understand how He was distinct from the Father but also One, and what was meant as His divine essence and compared it to that of the Father. These leaders in the early church were important for the body of Christ. They sought spiritual help from the Spirit to try to grasp some of the "mysteries" Paul often spoke to. They would come together and conference over such matters and try to come to a consensus. This is how the first creeds were formulated, and then these creeds were taught to believers and used in worship services as a proclamation of Truth corporately held by the congregations. Bishops of Asia Minor, such as Clement, Polycarp, Ignatius, and Irenaeus, (from the Antioch church, met with Bishops from Northern Africa, Greece & Macedonia, Rome, Spain, and Brittany. (Not all at the same time, nor every time). They had quite a charge upon them to defend and teach the true faith delivered by Jesus to the apostles. They didn't always agree, but they endeavored to engage with one another to bring true understanding of the Truth of Jesus Christ. So, we are in good company!

Re. Numbers 21:6 = And the LORD sent fiery serpents among the people, and they bit the people; and much people of Israel died.

The descriptive word "fiery" implies these "serpents" were far more sinister than the common venomous snake indigenous to the area. These were very out-of-the-ordinary serpents indeed.

Did The LORD especially prepare these "fiery serpents", much like when HE caused the "great fish" to swallow Jonah? Both events describe The LORD's punitive discipline.

Of note, the great fish did not swallow Jonah out of mere opportunity simply because it was in Jonah's immediate proximity. Rather, "The LORD prepared a great fish to swallow up Jonah" ( Jon. 1:17). The "great fish" and Jonah were put there together by DIVINE Appointment because GOD put them there in precisely the same vicinity, and at precisely the same time.

In like manner, these "fiery serpents" did not invade the camp of the Israelites by happenstance of their own accord, for "The LORD sent [them] among the people" (v.6).

If the word "fiery" qualifies the bite of these serpents as exceedingly severe beyond the norm, then these were out-of-the-ordinary serpents indeed. This implies these serpents were not of the type the Israelites would have ordinarily encountered during their trek across the wilderness.

Moreover, the "fiery serpent of brass" which Moses manufactured and erected upon a pole (v.8) more likely represented their fiery visual appearance rather than the severity of their bite.

S.Spencer What exactly does rightly dividing the truth mean?

Gigi Have fun with this they are identified through the original writings, have you ever stood in a line of ten people and

the first one told the second one something and by the time the story got to the last one it entirely changed. In some cases that happened scripturally. If martin luther who got justification by faith not by works right would see what happened to

what he started he'd flip. I'm not a lutheran, methodist,protestant, baptist, and the list goes on and on. I'm a christian that's what Gods Word says, that's is what we were called in Antioch of syria because believers walking around boldly said I have christ in me, which is a significant detail they didn't say Jesus, they said christ. Were Having fun now.

Precious English Sacha, thanks so much for your input on This Important Matter. I wish you well on your own spiritual journey...

Beloved of the Lord

We don't have to be in rags like Lazarus: poor, blind and begging.

We are children of the Mighty King! Just as Esther. We're chosen. We are adorned by the King. She used her privilege to rescue her people from mass execution. She had wisdom and beauty. Sometimes I don't understand how we get so bogged down, arguing history and miss the principals of soul winning.

If we could look through Jesus's eyes, we'd SEE our invisible enemies. I posted a list last night of signs of the Last Generation of people. We see that every day! Some sit at our dinner table. They're lost. Oppressedpossessed; dead spiritually. Can we see it? The battle is won on our knees.

Why not this year we say the Thanksgiving Prayer over the meal; and give an Altar Call? Come and taste the goodness of the Lord! Choose this day whom you will serve. Open the door of your heart that He knocks on. Invite Him to come in? Come in Lord Jesus and live in me from this day till the end. Give me the Holy Spirit to understand the Bible. I receive you. Write my name in your Book of Life. Amen.

There's a song by Darrell Mansfield. "Have You Been Listening." Take a moment and listen to that on YouTube. It will bless you.

Mishael

Gigi I am aware of four belief systems that started after the downfall of the first century church and are still carried out



but father says don't!

Sis That gets back to rightly divided doctrine, and No private interpretation which has been handed down through the ages. I do what I do because it works not because its a nice head trip, Jesus Christ walked and talked in the realm of the miraculous, we can too which I KNOW most people don't believe but that's not my problem, that's what my God through his Son paid for in full. Because of His Sacrifice and resurrection we can Hebrews 4:16, Romans 12:2, Ephesians 5:1+2,

Ephesians 1:19, John 10:10, 2 Timothy 1:7, 1 John 3:22, there are over 400 of these called promises to us who believe.

I've learned by walking out and doing that is believing, I never received nothing until I read listened and Acted which by the way is why its called the book of Acts, they believed and moved.

Hi Rick.

I see you snuck when in there. Lol.

I'm having trouble with this topic, I think I will leave that one alone for now.

I'm working as we speak. I get a chance to pen a word or two every now and then.

God bless.

Hi Sis The church of Corinth was into some intense stuff because they actually had a temple where they worshipped sex



and didn't want to change there pagan practices and thought they could have there cake and eat it too, that's to me why the word is like it was written yesterday, and by the way Christ is building His church Paul was just instructed by Jesus Christ on operation of what was Given. The Mystery of the One Spiritual body Jews and Gentiles.

Hi Sasha Years ago i went to a fellowship in a cabin in the woods with a bunch of believers and at the end of the teaching the challenge was for no one to say a word to anyone the rest of the night and do what Gods telling you to do.



To say the least it was a remarkable night, these things were never communicated, one person made hot chocolate, another showed up at the right time walked around and only gave it to certain people, another did the same thing with coffee. People walked up and prayed for someone not saying a word. Another made a fire in the fireplace after a different person gathered the wood. I learned a lot.

Amen Sister GiGi.

Everyone amongst us is not with us.

We have the Leaven always amongst us and also the tares. We're given the word of truth and the spirit of discernment.

As for the tares.

Matthew 7:15-21.

As for the Leaven.

2 Timothy 2:15-16. Study to shew thyself approved unto God, a workman that needeth not to be ashamed, rightly dividing the word of truth.

But shun profane and vain babblings: for they will increase unto more ungodliness.

2 Peter 3:15-16. And account that the longsuffering of our Lord is salvation; even as our beloved brother Paul also according to the wisdom given unto him hath written unto you;

As also in all his epistles, speaking in them of these things; in which are some things hard to be understood, which they that are unlearned and unstable wrest, as they do also the other scriptures, unto their own destruction.

We must pay attention to those who engage to cause discord rather to build up.

Paul says in Romans 16:17. Now I beseech you, brethren, mark them which cause divisions and offences contrary to the doctrine which ye have learned; and avoid them.

Disagreement shouldn't bring hatred.

God bless.

Hello Jane They didn't they found another place to live in. As you said you can't kill spirit but by Gods Grace we can be Healed and set free of the power of the spirit operating. Luke 38-42 The Touch of The Masters Hand!

Amen, Brother Jesse!

Amen Sister GiGi.

The early Church began to fragment as Paul said i hear there is divisions among you . lie not to one another . And Micah 5 says he will give them Up Till SHE that is in travail has given birth which is the woman in travail and birth Pains in Rev 12 : 5 kjv. AFTER THE BOOK IS OPENED Then the remnant of his brethren shall return to the Children of Israel . Have not i told ya a zillion times that Elijah has to come and turn the hearts of the Fathers to the Children ( what Children ? ( the babes and the sucklings Jesus wd mentions at times ) Remember Isaiah 11 speaks of the babes and the sucklings in his Holy Mountain @ his 2 nd coming thats when the earth shall be full of the knowledge of the Lord as the waters that cover the seas @ the 2 nd coming. Jesus made it very plain when he said I am the light of the world but the nite comes when noman can work. There has been a 2000 yr intermission, of darkness spritually speaking and the day of the Lord can not come till there 1st come a great falling away. As David said lover and friend has thou put far from me and my aquaintence into Darkness . Just like there was a 2 day intermission in his life there is also a 2 day intermission in his death Are not the 2000 swine that were lost symbolic of a 2000 yrs lost in the river of time . Rivers are like Times gone by ,Times present and times to come . But Paul said after my death shall grivious wolves enter there in not sparing the FLOCK.

Gigi P.S. By the way I've been in places of worship where supposedly the quote un guote spirit was in operation and it was absolutely ungodly confusion and confusion is not of our God. But there's something that I was taught years ago experience is no guarantee for truth, I always line it up against Gods Word to figure whats really going on, because as you and I both know the enemy plays and manipulates the truth.

Yes, deception and error was present and growing in the church in just a short time period. Thus they many warnings by the writers of the letters to the churches. And it has continued to be a problem in the church down through the ages. But Jesus promised that He will build His church and the gate of hell will not prevail against it. The Lord has preserved His church through the centuries and equipped it with those who refute false teachings (doctrines). These same heresies keep popping up in the church in all time periods. It is wise to know how to identify these heresies when we see them promoted.

Good Morning and God Bless Here's where the fun begins for some detail verse 7 says manifestation, the Gift as you shared is Holy Spirit Gift God given no charge believe and start doing the word, now that you operate the gift is up to you according to your individual believing to operate and walk. The gift is the God given ability the act is carrying out in action of the God given ability then its manifested in the sense realm as we act on what we received.

Example years ago ago my oldest son, came up out of a basement and heavy wooden door slammed His head so loud my wife came out and a neighbor next door. I immediately picked Him up and God said do not look at him just walk around the yard and pray and hold his head. In minutes he immediately shook a little then dad put me down, and he was running around. Now all this transpired in minutes.

He was healed if I would not have operated on the information I received from Father he would not have been healed. Now I not only ministered to my son but the neighbor watched the whole thing later came over ask about it was an open door to share the word and His whole family turned on. We are not defense attorneys for God we are witnesses.

I'm sure and be blessed that we'll have more to share.

Jane,

If you look closely at the verse, it says that it was the herd of pigs that drowned. It does not tell us that the demons themselves drowned. It was the demons that entered into the pigs and caused them to violently run over the edge of the cliff and drown. But it was the pigs that drowned, not the demons.

Hope this helps!

Most likely, Rick. the Corinthian congregations were known for such sensual practices, claiming it was from the Spirit, but in reality, as Paul stated, it was from the realm of carnality.

Agreed, David. We are to walk in the freedom of the Spirit and be willing to learn from others, whether alive now or long ago having died in Christ. I do not reject or despise traditions if I can source them back to the early church practices. In the epistles, many traditions were already being practiced. We, today, are connected by Christ to those early church as well as all believers through the centuries. Christianity is not new on the scene today. In the early church there was so much variation among the congregations because the Christian faith was new and hadn't worked through many factions and differences in practices yet. Some of this is due to the isolation of many congregations, the teachings of their leaders, the slowness of communication between congregations and the apostles, and the limits of the apostles to travel in a timely way. The church went through many changes in the first 200+ years. There was a need to address doctrines that were heretical and to refute sects such as the Judaizers, Docetists, and Gnostics that had arisen within the church.

Frances,

These are all Jews, twelve-thousand from each of the 12 tribes of Israel.

Rose All mankind in his mind worships either self, others, environment , or man made religion, which is in the category of the imaginations of men. We who are born again daily work on not doing these things of the flesh.

Good Morning, Rick

I read the chapter in 1 Corinthians 12 and recall that it says that there are a diversity of spiritual gifts, but one Spirit who bestows these gifts within believers.. And, it says that He distributes these within the body as he wills. No .one is given all of the gifts, nor is everyone given the same gift/s. I have had hands laid on me with prayer for the Spirit to work further in me when I was in college. But I do believe that everyone receives the indwelling of the Holy Spirit at conversion and that the Spirit will work in each believer for His power to be manifested in the gifts He gives.

Who are the 144,000 saints in revelation?