All Discussion PAGE 1791

I do indeed keep our dear folk who come on here, in my daily prayers, that together we will "grow in grace, and in the knowledge of our Lord and Saviour Jesus Christ" & therefore be used of Him for the blessing of others. It is truly a joyous thing, to fill ourselves with the knowledge of His Word, rather than the trash we get on our screens & phones. I can sense God's Spirit delighting to reveal more of our heavenly Father & His Son to us, being a blessed distraction from the things which can never satisfy.

What you're doing GiGi is very commendable by revisiting the Word from Genesis & sharing some very useful thoughts to assist us in understanding it, with a sprinkling of suggestions to challenge our thinking & appreciation of that Scripture. Your teaching skills are clearly apparent & I can see that they could have been well used (better used?) in the higher grades, given the chance.

I think many of us (for me at least), we just hit the Discussion Tab at the top of KJBO page (or else, hit Newest Discussion), & I progressively work down the page(s) until the comments start looking familiar from the previous day. But I guess one has to come on daily to do that with ample spare time, which I do, whenever I can. I started off here when Covid & lockdowns began over two years ago, rather than twiddle my thumbs at home - and I never left. I try to respond where I can; however, if others have already responded to questions & I have nothing useful to offer, then I go through the thread & move on. So that's my general plan. And some of the comments made here have forced me to consider verses or other theological matters, which I may have glossed over previously or not really considered. So, it's been an added avenue of study & ministry as well for me. And of course, if you don't get a response to your comment, it's not for a lack of readers - maybe there's been no prompt from the Spirit. So keep up the good work - I certainly enjoy what you've been sharing.

I am seeking intercessory prayer for an immediate solution to my chronic health and resultant financial problems. I have had chronic health problems for several years, and it has made it difficult for me to work as the high functioning professional I once was. I continue to experience severe financial problems. I also continue to be subjected to organized attacks by my enemies, which makes my recovery even more difficult.

To add to what was already shared in the book of Acts chapter 19 is the Record of certain vagabond Jews Known as exorcists took upon them to call over them which had evil or devil spirits the name of jesus. Take note it says Jesus I know and Paul I know but who are you, the adversaries realm knows those who are born again and walking in faith also take note who the spirit attacks and ransacks so to speak. Also exorcists are operated by devil spirits so what you have is a higher ranking one fighting lowering ranking ones. The enemies realm is total chaos people are controlled by these spirit entities.

Thanks for your thoughts. After posting this I read the the gates of the city was just what you said. Lot may have lived inside the city walls or outside. In excavating the site that is thought to be Sodom, there was found settlement both Inside the walls and outside. I am sure Lot began to slowly compromise his viewpoints and actions the longer he stayed with these people. I see that in my Mom and her views about homosexuality over the years due to spending time with my sisters who and their partners. When I was a teenager, she believed homosexuality is sinful, but now after so many years of interacting with my lesbian sisters, she has compromised her viewpoint. Granted, my sisters have many good qualities and have been very helpful to my Mom. So, now, in her later years (she just turned 88) she states the oft spoken "I think they were born that way." I continue to pray for my sisters and Mom. There whole personage is wrapped up in this identity. To turn away from it would mean leaving their spouse and forsaking who they have been for 50+ years. This is a big spiritual struggle. I have yet to meet a family that has three homosexual members like mine. Family gatherings happen and we attend for my Mom's sake). But my younger siblings and I talk to each other about how uncomfortable we are around our sisters, especially when their spouses attend. Just kind of weird to me, but i am thankful that I have been spared this influence when I in my teen years and more so that I was a strong believer and God has used me to be one who stands in the gap for my family for all these years.

They have found what apparently is the pillar of salt and in that location because of the deposits left in the area brimstone and evidence of ground incineration from a cataclysmic event. In addition they have also found the remnants of noahs ark.

Thanks Chris,

I am not very informed about customs from this area of the world now or in the past.

I had never thought about Lot having four daughters, but I can see that possibility.

Maybe the married daughters would not leave if their husbands said "no"

Lots daughters sleeping with there father is Sodom and Gomorrah influence rubbing off. You can't hang in garbage for that long and not get stinky so to speak. That's their unbelief coming out also Sodom and Gomorrah also practiced beastiality and incest not good.

Genesis 19 Whats interesting when it came to rescuing lot and his daughters is that they basically were grabbed by the angels and dragged out, the proof of their unbelief was His wife turned around. There's an interesting saying lot went into Sodom then Sodom got into lot. Evil communication corrupts good manners.

Hello Bryan. I understand your reference was to Mark 9:29, to which I believe that Jesus was speaking about particular spirits. As there would be a hierarchy in both the good & evil spirit realm, there appears to be in this instance a particularly nasty variety (v22) that also required one to have a greater focus (by prayer & fasting) which an ordinary command made in faith could not achieve. Jesus' disciples may not have reached that stage in their learning of the gradation of spirits & were thus left floundering & helpless. This is just my understanding - hopefully you may get other views, maybe based on some experience, which I have not.

I understand that when "Lot sat in the gate of Sodom" ( Genesis 19:1), this was a significant place for administration, welcoming visitors, or for policing/judgement. I've thought of Lot as having integrated himself well into that society & even risen to a level of holding a venerable position before its citizens. One can compare the use of the 'gate' in 2 Samuel 19:8; Esther 5:13; Psalm 69:12; Proverbs 22:22.

And in truth, the sins of Sodom were probably far more rampant in its many forms & intensities, that would have moved God in such a mighty way against that city's inhabitants. And even today, peoples & governments all over the world scoff & scorn the Word of God & the coming Day of Great Wrath upon them. Man will never learn, 'professing themselves to be wise, they showed themselves, fools'.

People like to make things more complicated than they are.

Blasphemy: Contemptuous or profane speech or action concerning God or a sacred entity.

Contempt: a feeling that someone or something is not worthy of any respect or approval

Contempt against the Holy Spirit is equal to not being saved. How can someone who accepts Jesus as their savior and have the Holy Spirit hold it in contempt? Conversely, How can someone whose sins aren't forgiven be saved? If you are saved, this doesn't apply to you.

Don't live in fear over this or over anything. F.E.A.R. = False Evidence Appearing Real. Fear is Satan's strongest weapon to destroy your life. Fear is the opposite of love. Even your misinterpretations of the bible can be used against you.

If you have blasphemous thoughts over this it's because your mind focuses on what you fear. Those thoughts are not your own, don't accept them. If you actively try to ignore something, the opposite will happen. Instead, focus on good things.

John 5:24, Romans 8:15

In eastern culture, the guest is given a highly honourable status, even higher than members of the family. In very 'traditional' families in India & Pakistan, the guest(s) will eat only with the man of the house (& maybe his sons) - the women & children will only eat later of the food that is remaining. If the men have been ravenous, the women would have to do without. And of course, the guest is always served first, having first choice of the food presented to him. So, we can well understand Lot's singular focus to ensure the safety & happiness of these divine guests. Yet, as you wrote, "such a sad offer" by Lot in presenting his daughters; if he was entirely noble & caring for his family, he should have rather offered himself.

And to note, I assume that Lot had at least four daughters: two married to his sons & the two virgins living with their parents & who were offered to the 'beasts of Sodom'. So, not only Lot's sons-in-law, but also their wives may have disbelieved this angelic warning & rather stay in the city to which their hearts were completely devoted.

I think that all believers receive the blessings of Jesus, the Holy Spirit, to show us all things. read the Last Supper Discourse. So, beautiful!

Catherine I'm praying for you. You are on my heart and I'm asking The Father to help you, deliver you, pour out His love and heart upon you.

Yes please return to the Fathers community. Come home daughter of Zion

In Jesus name.

Lord Jesus I ask in accordance to Paul's prayers in Ephesians 1 and Ephesians 3 as well as strong protection ( Ps 91, Ps 34:7 and all other promises in the Word) and for deliverance and salvation ( Acts 2:21, Acts 16:31) for us, those close to us (incl. church) and all in need. Please bless all praying and their loved ones. Thank you and praise you. In your holy name I pray. Amen.

The scripture is James 2:10

God Bless

Hello,

Chris, I guess I do not know how this site works yet. I thought you were going back to Genesis and revisiting comment section to see what new posts say. Which, if so, I appreciate, because there are new people beginning the study of the Bible with Genesis that many studied months or years ago and while I can be helped by what they wrote, they cannot benefit or help newcomers if they do not go back and recheck what they previously studied. I realize this takes a lot of time. I just retired in September from being a Kindergarten teacher. So, I have time to do more than some others on this site. Last year when I was on medical leave dur to covid, I did months of research from non-Scriptural sources on and the pre-flood world and immediately post flood. And now I am studying Genesis again, because I am sure that God had me do the previous research for a reason and then lead to Genesis again.

I have truly enjoyed your many posts across the chapters of Genesis. You have a way of identifying iffy teaching and bringing the discussion back to solid teaching. Thank you. I will pray for you; please pray for me.

Yes sister Ana, I'm praying for you too! Praying over your husband, children, and home tonight. Know that God is for you too!

Hello, Hmm. I guess I never pondered this too much over the years as I was taught these stories since I was really young and have always thought that angels usually appear as men when they visit people to help them or give messages from God. God gave them this capability and I just haven't ever questioned it. It did point out that they ate with Abraham and Lot, so they must be able to be very humanlike to be able to fellowship in this way. I guess I don't see the connection with all of the Scripture verses. I've read those before, but would not connect them to this story. Please explain without just sending me verses. I want to understand why you sent these particular ones to me.

With all this said, the two sons born to these daughters grew to become two nations that relentlessly opposed the lineage of Abraham. Is this because they were very aware of that Abraham's lineage was the covenant people and they were excluded? Were they envious of God's special favor upon Abraham's descendants, since they were Abraham's relatives through Lot? This seems to repeat with Ishmael and Esau. They just couldn't stand that they were not included in God's covenant. And so, they turned to wickedness rather than seeking God.

Many people have made many comments concerning homosexuality. My three older siblings are homosexuals. This sinful deception stopped with me and my younger siblings and myself are hetero. I was unaware of my older siblings lifestyle at first, but once I was out of college I figured it out. I often asked "Why God guarded me and not them". It seems He set me apart for a reason. I was glad I was not very close to these sisters and so I did not hang out with the people they did when they were teens. That sphere of people were an influence on them to pursue this lifestyle. Many were the same age as my sisters or older. They are still friends with many of these people to this day after 50+ years.

I think that homosexuality is planted into innocent, vulnerable, impressionable young people by the devil through people who groom them or have similar feelings in common. That is what I saw with my sisters. When I recall the times (the 70's) and the situation (good athletes they played sports with) it was a ripe situation. When they were in junior high and high school, girls who excelled at athletics were seen as unsuitable to have as a girlfriend. So, they were not sought after by the boys around them. Other than basketball and tennis, they participated in other sports outside of high school. It was in these outside situations that they met their "mentors". My parents had no clue that this was the case.

I have always prayed for them over the years

Brother Ronald, question are always good, that why we have the Holy Spirit.

1 John 2:27

Matthew 21:22

to continue: If lot's wife had simply died and decayed in that place. Lot could have come back and buried her, therefore eliminating the graphic, and tangible reminder of why God destroyed the cities of the plain. To me, I don't see any significance of her being made into salt. But I'm open for someone's input from research. From what I understand, it is believed that Sodom and Gomorrah are submerged beneath the Dead Sea, which is exceedingly saline. People float in this sea due to the buoyance of the salt in the water. How apropos that the sea is named the "Dead" sea and that it is full of salt. There must have been a great deal of salt in the hail and brimstone! The destruction was so intense that Abraham could see the smoke from the mountain where he had his tent home. He probably wondered about Lot. Was he safe?

Interesting that he went back to the place where he stood with the Lord to view the event that day.

It doesn't say if the mountain cave that Lot and his daughters was near to Abraham or not. I think it was further east. It is apparent that they did not feel very safe even in the mountains. They must have felt alone, but did not want to return to Zoar, which was spared. then, his daughters hatched a plan that they knew their father would never go along with. Lot made a mistake to drink with his daughters two nights in a row. They must have been traumatized, which can lead people to make irrational choices, overlooking the sinfulness of these choices. The daughters engaged in incest with their fathers. They didn't think that they would find anyone to carry on the family line. They didn't wait on God, like Sarah and Abraham with Hagar. I do not know what they meant by "as is the custom of all of the earth". Did it refer that the custom was that of sexual union between a man and woman, unlike the people of Sodom and Gomorrah or the customs was for daughters to have relations with their father in order to continue to lineage if the father had no sons.

The way I heard that scripture taught, is: "you can blaspheme my Daddy, you can Blaspheme me (Jesus speaking) but do not ever blaspheme THE HOLY SPIRIT!! I will not forgive.

Jesus is highly protective towards the Holy Spirit. HS is the very spirit of Christ. He speaks of and teaches us, of Jesus.

As a baby Christian who does not yet know of the severity of this sin; you won't be punished. But once you Know of that scripture, there is accountability. "You shall know the Truth"

If the Holy Spirit gives you the truths about God the Father, or Jesus in scripture or audibly, your duty as a child of the Most High, is to respond in faith (not doubt, not contention, not blatant unbelief).

All of our weak faith issues can be remedied by digging into Gods Word/Bible, to prove or disprove. God doesn't want us clueless. That's the Holy Spirits ministry/job, to shed LIGHT on what appears dark now. ASK HIM. Genesis 1:3

Go on Google, type in: "ministry of the Holy Spirit, Bible"__and just read all the many things He is involved in. Widen your knowledge.

Don't BLAME God for things you imagine that He has done. He gets blamed for all the bad things in our lives. JOB 1. There is a very bad Devil that spies on us, looks for ways to get us to blame God for the things Satan does. "We are to be wise as serpents, but mild as doves." We have to grow up and kick in satans teeth OURSELVES. Eph.6 !!

Cover your life in prayer. Pick up that sword (Bible) and cut down satans accusations and attempts to destroy your faith, family, job, health, marriage, wild children, etc.

In addition to investigating subjects that are hard to learn; build up your Faith in God. Until you do, you're a baby in a high chair. Learn of God so you can make Satan's life a NIGHTMARE! He is the ACCUSER, MURDERER, CHAOS, Deceiver, Jezebel, LIAR, and a 100 more names. Google that List too.

Mishael

to continue: the townsmen were now determined to deal more harshly with Lot than they had hoped to be with the visitors. They were going to sexually assault Lot in a worse way. Thankfully, the angels knew what the men were set to do and pulled Lot back inside and secured the door. Next, an effort was made to convince other family members to flee with them. They declined. Most likely they were born and raised in this city. They though Lot was joking. They were scoffers. They were obviously not concerned about the safety of their brides to be or Lot and his wife from the mob. Perhaps they were even a part of the mob. Must have been sad for Lot and family to realize that they would not heed their warning and go with them. I love that the text said the the Lord was merciful to this family.

When morning came, the angels said. "Hurry!" They stalled a bit too long and the angels had to grab them by their hands and pull them out of the city. Once outside the angels said that destruction was imminent and they needed to flee in order to escape for their lives and not be consumed. They implored Lot and family to go all the way to the mountains. Lot expressed a preference to go to another city in the plain instead. The angels brought them to this city, Zoar, but the devastation was going to be so extensive that they did need to flee to the mountains after all. On the way out of Zoar, the hail and brimstone began to rain down. They were warned not to look back, but Lot's wife did. I think it was really hard not to look back when disaster is on your heels. Unfortunately for Lot's wife, she was turned into an pillar of salt.

I wonder if anyone has found this pillar of salt in this area from any archeological digs. Anyone know? Some people ask why a pillar of salt? I think that the pillar of salt was God's reminder to God's people not to sin as those in Sodom and Gomorrah did. Lot's stone wife was a memorial stone.

The two angels were holy angels, not fallen, so would not have anything to do with the people of these cities. They were there to rescue the remnant of God's people, Lot and family, no one else, even the the angels mentioned sons and sons-in -law. These men did not wish to come with Lot and the women. The angels had to forcibly take Lot and the women out of the city,, taking them by the hand and compelling them to flee. Perhaps Lot and family were concerned about family members being left behind. maybe they wanted to plead with them more. The sinfulness of the city vexed Lot, so I don't think it was the city people he didn't want to leave, but members of his family who refused to agree to go with them. They mocked him.

Going back to the arrival of the angels and the shouts of the men of the city to have access to the visitors and violate them sexually. Rightly, Lot refused. these people were trying to force their way into Lot's home. He tried to appease them by offering his daughters for them to violate. (Such a sad offer!) He was desperate. He knew the visitors were holy angels and valued their purity over his daughters. Some will disagree with me, but he was right to want to preserve the integrity of the angels, but wrong to offer his daughters. It is easy during a siege to make rational decisions. he probably regretted offering his daughters but was thankful the men declined. He did not realize that the angels can take care of themselves without his help. I think he was unaware of their power. But these holy beings shut the door and secured it against a mob and blinded the members of the group outside so that they could not find the door. I think that is significant. Their blindness made it so that they could not find the door. Also, Just as God had shut Noah up in the ark, these angels shut Lot's family up in his house by which they escaped the deluge of wicked men. The townsmen were outraged that Lot would try to judge them since he was an outsider.

You are welcome GiGi.

God bless.

Greetings in the name of Jesus, our Lord, The Holy One of Israel;

I have read all of the comments on this chapter and admit that this is a disturbing chapter. But then again, should it be more disturbing to us that in Genesis when Adam and Eve sinned? No, not really. However, are the sins of Sodom and Gomorah grave sins? Yes! Primarily, the sin of homosexuality. The text highlights this sin when God was ready to bring judgement on these cities. Some asked why Lot was sitting at the gates to the city. I think that his home was most likely outside of the gates of the city. he was in a way "separated" from the inhabitants of the city. I think at first when me chose these plains to live and tend his flocks, Lot continued in the ways of the faith that Abraham brought him up in under Abraham's guardianship. These people lived in tends and travelled around the area to keep their flocks fed and watered. At some point Lot built a house and settled near the gates of the city. He began to know of the ways of these cities and it grieved him. He may have witnessed to the people of these cities, but they didn't heed his preaching and devised more ways to be wicked. Yet, Lot decided to stay instead of shaking the dust off of his sandals and moving to another city in the plains. he did not remove his family from the wicked influences of these places. He failed a as a patriarch in this way and I'm sure was torn between living for God and keeping his family unaffected by the wicked ways of these people and trying to make a living among them. I don't think that Lot ever participated in the sin of homosexuality. It doesn't say where and when he found his wife and married her. Was she from these cities? She wasn't from the kin of Abraham because Abraham did not have an heir until Ishmael was born and he was still a youth. Maybe he went back to Haran to take a wife from their kin like Isaac and Jacob did. We don't know. And his daughter's husbands? Where from? Sodom.

When Jesus said, "This kind" in verse 19 was he saying that there are some spirits that require fast and prayer, or was "this kind" referring to the disbelief of the disciples that stopped them from dealing with the unclean Spirit.

What a testimony! Yah will not give up on you. It doesn't matter how long you've been away or what you have done. He is always there, leading you, and guiding you.

Stuart T Lyons, back then the bible traveled by preachers and word of mouth for the most part. The books of the bible were there but were not in print on a massive scale like they are today. Churches were there back then. You have to remember the Bible was first printed in 1454. So the bible was out there by 1611.