All Discussion PAGE 1794

Thank you Tony. In reference to Revelation 20:10, the "torment" being used for 'testing', in your understanding, does this 'testing' continue eternally without any finality to their judgement? Or does the verse more fully speak of that eternal torment received is the result of them being found guilty & deserving of their punishment. I became confused when you also referred to Jeremiah 31:34: are you speaking of the saved whose sins are already forgiven by virtue of Christ's death, or for some type of redemption for the unsaved?

And then to the "touchstone" & the connection to the "cornerstone". Though the same Greek word for Stone is used, I see a different application, where Christ is seen not as the 'testing' stone but as the very stone that forms the joint for connecting the two walls together, & is being rejected as useless (as was the rejection of the lord of vineyard's son). And the chief priests & scribes correctly perceived "that he had spoken this parable against them".

And then when we come to Revelation 20:10, where the "devil is was cast into the Lake of Fire, where the beast & the false prophet already are", I don't understand this to be a testing time for unbelievers. Their judgement is seen in Revelation 20:11-13, when the Books are opened & according to their works, were deemed guilty & not found in the Book of Life. Their judgement & punishment are now eternal. Those who belong to Him, through His Son, have been eternally secured, & their only judgement is in 1 Corinthians 3:10-15, where rewards are given to those who have built their Christian lives well on that One Foundation & sadly with shamefacedness & loss to those who have dishonoured Him in their lives.

There's more to share, but I feel that I may not have fully comprehended your understanding, so will leave it for now.

Blasphemy of the holy sprit,. Can only be committed by God's Elect ,.. an that opportunity has not of yet come into it's time ,.. for it'll be them that are delivered up to the councils an in the synagogue to give testimony against them , an the gospel must first be published before all nations ,.. an it will not be them that speak , it'll be the holy sprit speaking threw them ,.. Mark 13 , will clarify the duty's for the elect

Peace

Chris, I always love to read your posts. You are a straight arrow in your take on scriptural matters. I am uplifted by what you say and I stand in agreement with you for the most part. There may be some things we think differently on, but I feel that we both have been blessed with a strong foundation in Christ and the teachings of our faith. Thank you for going back and looking for new posts to respond to in chapters that you may have already studied and responded to in past months. This site needs people like you who are responsive to the need to welcome new posters, encourage others, gently guide others in fruitful discussions, and being watchful about what is being conveyed on this site. it shows you care about the people who come on here in a pastoral way. Thanks.

Dear Man, please open your heart and say more of what you believe is Truth.

:)

I am aware that the descendants of Ishmael became many of the Arab tribes. Unfortunately, most of those tribes today follow the teachings of Muhammed, a false prophet who claimed that Ishmael was the promised heir, not Isaac. However, there is not a 100% Muslim population in any Islamic nation. There are Christians "seeded" among these Muslim communities. Pray for God to protect them from the Muslims who are pressed to persecute and execute Christians. These Christians are the hands, feet, and mouths of Jesus in situations where people are following false teachers who cannot offer hope of salvation to their followers. Most Muslims have not known any other belief system, (same for the Jews). They are in bondage to their religion, not free in Christ Jesus. Our intercession is needed and valuable.

I am concerned about what has and is transpiring in the Middle East. Such turmoil for such a long, long time. And in these times it doesn't just involve those who live there. It involves the whole world. Islam has spread across Africa and Asia as well as the middle east. Many are very devout and committed to honor their god no matter what. Are we more devout and committed to honor the True God more than the Muslims of the world? We need to be. WE have the most excellent promises of all of history. Let us seek for the fulfillment of these promises to be accomplished God's way, not ours. this takes faith and wisdom and courage. I pray to have these in fuller measure as I face the senior years of my life.

Somewhere in the Bible it says that if you break one of my commandments you break them all. Can you tell my where it says that. All i have ever found was where he says if you break one of the LEAST of my commandments you break them all that's found in Matthew 5:19

Glory to the Merciful God of Abraham!

Abraham was 85 when Sarah asked him to take Hagar and father a child with her. This was 10 years after God promised Abraham an heir generated from his body. When Sarah asked him to do this, he may have thought that it may be the way God would give him and heir since Sarah was long past childbearing age. It seemed logical to him and was a common practice in those times and cultures. Although he had not heard directly from God do go through with this like God had spoken to him when He gave Abraham the promises, Abraham probably made many decisions without this direct communication from God. He perhaps felt sure of his perception of "following the guidance of God's Spirit to him." This happens to believers often. Sometimes we may sincerely feel that the Spirit is leading us to do or say a specific thing, only to find out later that it probably wasn't God's leading at all. Sometimes ourselves get in the way when we are going about His work. Oh, how I wish I could always gauge these leadings rightly and recognize from whom they are really coming from! But we are on a spiritual walk in this life and haven't arrived at our final destination yet. We will stumble along the way, but God will still lead us down the right path. He called us and He loves us.

I believe it was brother Ronald L. Whittemore & not me, who mentioned the likelihood of it being Springtime at or about the time the flood waters receded. As well, I would agree with you about the starkness of the landscape after the Flood & the expressions of joy that must have been those sole humans, when they saw the first shoots of vegetation spring forth. Yet, how the saltiness of the seas did not affect the land (i.e. for plant growth), remains an unanswered question in my mind. Maybe, the miracle of the Great Flood continued on to the division of the salt-filled seas from the fertile land mass around them.

Praise be to the God Who sees me!

I was taught that Hagar was Egyptian. Perhaps she was "acquired" when Abraham and Sarah went to Egypt due to the recent famine. She was away from her home country and had very little power of her own. I have always felt sorry for Hagar. She was "used" by Sarah and Abraham because they tried to "help" God accomplish His promise. I imagine that she was much younger than Sarah and Abraham. Perhaps she was very lovely and Sarah was concerned that Abraham would turn to Hagar to have more children and relegate Sarah to status as "second wife". Hagar didn't help matters with her disrespect for Sarah. Yet she still was carrying a child and knew that the child would become Sarah's, not hers. She may have been concerned that the child might be a girl and therefore, not be an heir. She may have been concerned about what would happen to her if the child was female. When Sarah sent her away harshly, she probably thought she was going to die in the wilderness. But, thankfully, God stepped in and gave her hope as well as instructions on what she should do. She was relieved and grateful that God took notice of her. She may not even have been a follower of the true God. Because the child was not the promised heir, God could have had her miscarry, or die in the wilderness, or be taken by another chieftan to be in his harem. Then the child would not be part of Abraham's lineage. God chose differently. But Hagar returned to Sarah and submitted to her, as God told her to do.

Sarah lacked faith to believe that she would be the woman to bear the heir for Abraham. She was very desperate to have a child and decided to make it happen one way or another. Let this be a warning to us today when people go to methods of conception other than what God ordained from the time of Adam and Eve. It is very difficult to deal with infertility, especially if it last a long time and then a woman ages past childbearing years. Sarah must have struggled greatly with this.

Does it not say there is neither jew or gentile in Christ ?

not sure of what you're looking for but these are just a few verses in the NT about patience, also the book of Job is a story of patience and faith.

Romans 5:1 - 5:4 Therefore being justified by faith, we have peace with God through our Lord Jesus Christ: By whom also we have access by faith into this grace wherein we stand, and rejoice in hope of the glory of God. And not only so, but we glory in tribulations also: knowing that tribulation worketh patience; And patience, experience; and experience, hope:

1 Timothy 6:9 - 6:12 But they that will be rich fall into temptation and a snare, and into many foolish and hurtful lusts, which drown men in destruction and perdition. For the love of money is the root of all evil: which while some coveted after, they have erred from the faith, and pierced themselves through with many sorrows. But thou, O man of God, flee these things; and follow after righteousness, godliness, faith, love, patience, meekness. Fight the good fight of faith, lay hold on eternal life, whereunto thou art also called, and hast professed a good profession before many witnesses.

If you have had blasphemous thoughts about the Holy Spirit and want to repent, is it possible that you haven't blasphemed the Holy Spirit in your heart? As in, errant and anxious thinking may be the reason and perhaps you are not beyond repentance? Matthew 12:31-32 clearly states this will NEVER be forgiven so if you are concerned about it, is it possible GOD might still bring you to repentance and you are not guilty of this sin? Been numb and having messed up thoughts (some anxious others obsessive). If it is too late, how can someone live afterwards? I prayed about it...just waiting for an answer from GOD at this point. Any advice or thoughts?

Pray for the Israelite people all over our world and in Israel. Pray that many will come to believe in Jesus like so many did in the time of the apostles. Pray that they will be freed from wrong beliefs by exposure to the truth of the Word of God.

This passage says all nations will be blessed through the heirs of Abraham. Therefore, we have been blessed, especially by Jesus. We should wish to bless the Israelites wherever they are. God said in this passage He will bless those who bless these people.

God knows who are His in this world, whether Christians or Israelites saves by grace. He will fulfill his Word, promises, and plan for the ages. Praise be to the God of all!

PRAYER REQUEST :

Concerning the pastor Thieringo : 2021 , 2022 and after :

Have best jobs with best wages incomes, best hours in Swiss country.

Protection prosperity wisdom chance success miracles,divine breakthroughs, financial breakthroughs, must be in pastor Thieringo's life in Jesus name.

When I(pastor Thieringo) cry, answer me, God of my justice! When I am in distress, save me! Have pity on me, listen to my prayer!

Sons of men, how long will my glory be outraged? How long will you love vanity, will you seek lies?

Know that Jehovah has chosen a godly man; The Lord hears when I cry to him.

Tremble, and sin not; Speak in your hearts on your bed, then shut up.

Offer sacrifices of righteousness, and trust in the LORD.

Many say, Who will make us see happiness? Bring on us the light of your face, O LORD!

You put in my heart more joy than they have when their wheat and their must abound.

I go to bed and sleep in peace, for you alone, O LORD! you give me security in my home.

Plead my cause, O Lord, with them that strive with me: fight against them that fight against me. Take hold of shield and buckler, and stand up for mine help. Draw out also the spear, and stop the way against them that persecute me: say unto my soul, I am thy salvation.Let them be confounded and put to shame that seek after my soul: let them be turned back and brought to confusion that devise my hurt.Let them be as chaff before the wind: and let the angel of the Lord chase them.Let their way be dark and slippery: and let the angel of the Lord persecute them.For without cause have they hid for me their net in a pit, which without cause they have digged for my soul. Let destruction come upon him at unawares; and let his net that he hath hid catch himself: into that very destruction let him fall. And my soul shall be joyful in the Lord: it shall rejoice in his salvation.All my bones shall say, Lord, who is like unto thee, which deliverest the poor from him that is too strong for him, yea, the poo

Back to the chapter, The other thing that stood out to me in this chapter was that God had put Abraham into a deep sleep and then told him about the 400 years of slavery his descendants would spend in Egypt. I wonder, was Abraham able to hear this or was the prophecy implanted in his being somehow? Did God do this in this way in order to speak the prophecy but not disturb Abraham in this time of giving promises and making a covenant? Perhaps God gave this prophecy ( and willed it to occur) because of the wickedness of the Canaanites (that was not yet full) may have drawn the Israelites away from God more than the influence of Egypt for these 400 years.

Some people have commented about the re-establishment of Israel to the Jewish people. Some say that those currently occupying Israel are not genetically Jews but Khazars. I've read some about this idea. Some sources say that DNA of the Ashkenazi Jews (originally from the Khazar region) have Jewish descent. They may be mixed blood. Also, there are Sephardic Jews that have returned to Israel. And I read that there were people of Israelite genetic make-up living in Israel before it became an independent state. Concerning Zionism, it does have many aspects that are not biblically sound. Even so, Israel has been re-established and open to receive those of Abraham's seed to the state.

Also, I read that only people of Israeli descent (perhaps even only Jewish) can be citizens in Israel. Everyone else is considered a resident alien. This contributes to the strife between the Israelis and Palestinians. Palestinians never had their own state in this region. But they desire it, since they have been there for a long time. so, having the Jews be given the area for a Jewish state results in strife in this area. I don't think it will ever be settled. Israel's borders are smaller that the area promised to Abraham by God. They do not yet possess all of the land of Promise yet.

I recommend reading up on this subject.

Good day, everyone! God made it. Let us rejoice and be glad in it!

What stands out to me in this chapter is how God swore and oath to himself while Abraham was deeply asleep. To me, this means that the covenant and promise cannot be broken, because God is always true to His Word.

For my husband and I, conceiving children did not come quickly. It took more than a year for the first two and over 6 months for the third. So, at that time, I remembered how Abraham had already waited many decades to have a child without conceiving and then, after the promise, another 25 years went by before Sarah conceived Isaac.

I love the read about the faith of Abraham, after so many years of not conceiving, to believe what God then promised despite all "odds". And then he had to keep believing for 25 years! Although Ishmael was conceived perhaps a decade before Isaac, but he was not the child promised. Sarah and Abraham tried on their own counsel to bring a child into their lives. That did not turn out very well for everyone, as we will read in future chapters.

For us, we prayed and believed that God would answer our prayers in His timing, and he did. But we also have known people that prayed for a child and never conceived. They were able to adopt a child. They were blessed in a different way. But the waiting can be painful, as those around you are conceiving right away and have children already in their homes. So, for anyone who is not conceiving as they planned, I pray for comfort and assurance from the Lord that he will chose wisely for you. It's a difficult time to endure. Having my three sons and having had the pleasure of being home full-time to raise them up was wonderful. I have always wished I could have more than three, but pregnancy and childbirth posed serious danger for each of my sweet boys. After a year of pray and seeking God about having more children, we felt led to cease having children. That was a very difficult decision for us. Yet, we were blessed with 3

The Mockingbird can mimic other bird sounds! God wants us to do and live exactly like He did and does. Also he used the Mockingbird to tell me to move from Louisiana to Texas. The Mockingbird is as I found out 10 years later the STATE BIRD OF TEXAS! Praise Jesus! Acts 2:38

Landon

Where in the bible does it talk about Satan and a third of the angels cast out of heaven

Bro Dan The problem with the countries and our country is the bowing down to other gods there fore the True God cannot give them fruitful abundance of food to bless them instead nothing but extremes drought or flood because they have abused that which God has given them and are living absolutely ungodly lives. Jesus Christ fed thousands with little proof that The true God meets the need and God is a God of total abundance when His Word is believed and lived.

is this the same pharaoh from gegesis

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Gentle readers in Christ Jesus, I read in US news a little about a concern amongst some conservative parents that children are being taught conformity. However much written here on this website about the Spiritual Kingdom; it appears that non-conformity to the world is considered works. How is it that the born again Christian expects unconverted teachers with worldly knowledge to teach (works) non-conformity to the world when many Christians consider the practice there of works?

In kindness.

:)

This story tells the answer: the Rich man never helped anyone; he didn't obey God. He died in his sins and went to hell.

19 There was a certain rich man, which was clothed in purple and fine linen, and fared sumptuously every day:

20 And there was a certain beggar named Lazarus, which was laid at his gate, full of sores,

21 And desiring to be fed with the crumbs which fell from the rich man's table: moreover the dogs came and licked his sores.

22 And it came to pass, that the beggar died, and was carried by the angels into Abraham's bosom: the rich man also died, and was buried;

23 And in HELL he lift up his eyes, being in torments, and seeth Abraham afar off, and Lazarus in his bosom.

24 And he cried and said, Father Abraham, have mercy on me, and send Lazarus, that he may dip the tip of his finger in water, and cool my tongue; for I am tormented in this FLAME.

25 But Abraham said, Son, remember that thou in thy lifetime receivedst thy good things, and likewise Lazarus evil things: but now he is comforted, and thou art tormented.

26 And beside all this, between us and you there is a great gulf fixed: so that they which would pass from hence to you cannot; neither can they pass to us, that would come from thence.

27 Then he said, I pray thee therefore, father, that thou wouldest send him to my father's house:

28 For I have five brothers; that he may testify unto them, lest they also come into this place of torment.

Visit the red link page and read through BECOME A CHRISTIAN link, when you are ready to receive Jesus as Savior and Lord of your life.

No. Everyone must be saved through Jesus Christ. Read this slowly ok?

JOHN 3

5 Jesus answered, Verily, verily, I say unto thee, Except a man be born of water and of the Spirit, he cannot enter into the kingdom of God.

6 That which is born of the flesh is flesh; and that which is born of the Spirit is spirit.

15

That whosoever believeth in him should not perish, but have eternal life.

16

For God so loved the world, that he gave his only begotten Son, that whosoever believeth in him should not perish, but have everlasting life.

17

For God sent not his Son into the world to condemn the world; but that the world through him might be saved.

18

He that believeth on him is not condemned: but he that believeth not is condemned already, because he hath not believed in the name of the only begotten Son of God.

On the red link page where you came in the website: is a link BECOME A CHRISTIAN. You can pray to God and He will hear you. Your name will be recorded in the Book of Life.

CONTINUED ON REVELATION 20:10 . The righteous will witness false believers rejecting the testing of the Stone. The fire will witness that He has not made a mistake in judging the lost. If He could make a mistake about someone's salvation among the lost, the fire could have no effect on them, the fire cannot destroy the gold of redemption which is in Christ. I can understand the horror and grief as the redeem see that there is no possibility for loved ones to be saved. As terrible as this testing is, God has made clear that He judged correctly. Then He wipes away all tears from our eyes, and we leave behind all that we experienced in this world of sin, For God also wipes away our sins. Jeremiah 31:34



"And they shall teach no more every man his neighbour, and every man his brother, saying, Know the LORD : for they shall all know Me, from the least of them unto the greatest of them, saith the LORD ; for I will forgive their iniquity, and I will remember their sin no more."

When God chooses not to remember something, it cannot exist anywhere. What a God!

Hi Chris-Here's my understanding of the Greek word for "torment," in Revelation 20:10. First, I have read this passage many times (who doesn't read Revelation many times?) This is what struck me. Why are the wicked raised from the dead? Haven't they been previously judged at this time? What is God's purpose in casting them into the Lake of fire? Most all believers have family members and close friends who we thought would be in the kingdom. Why do the righteous in the Holy City have to see people we love about to face their eternity in the fire?

As you pointed out, the word in Greek is ""basanisthesontai." Strong's NT 928. It is associated with NT 931, a "Touchstone." It is also related to the ancient word for "testing," This where I saw the full impact of Rev 20:10. Their torment is related to testing them. Jesus says in Rev 3:18, "Buy of Me gold tried in the fire."

In 1 Corinthians 3:10-14, Paul refers to this time of testing by fire. It will reveal "every man's work," as to the person's true character. And only precious metal will survive the fire. In ancient Greek, NT 931, "Touchstone" was a "Lydiam stone" used by assayers to determine the value of certain metals (gold and silver). As the assayer pressed the metal against the stone, it would leave a streak that determined its value. Luke 20:17, Jesus mentions that He is the "Stone" Israel rejected. The Geek word for stone is, "Lithos," or Lydiam, the stone used by assayers."

My question at this point was, "Why does God test the lost in Rev 20:10? He knows who are His and those that don't belong to Him. Therefore, the testing must be for the redeemed! The only scenario I see is that God wants the redeemed to know why their loved ones are not saved. He does not want the saved to raise the question of, "Will the possibility of sin ever occur again in the New Earth? Basically, this testing time demonstrates that the lost do not want to follow or worship Christ. CONTINUED...

Hi Tina Look at ecclesiastes 9:5+6 We are asleep or dead until if your born again when christ returns for his body we rise up to meet him in the air all others will be raised in the judgement in revelation the just and unjust.

Hi David,

If I may, I have heard other people say what you are saying and they feel there was a gap between Gen. 1:1 and Gen.1:2, if I understand correctly what you are saying, forgive me if I am wrong. If we use Revelation 12 for this event we have to say Satan does not have access to heaven to accuse us day and night. We see in Job 1:6 and Job 2:1 Satan has access to heaven and God, also he is the great accuser he accuses us before God day and night.

In Revelation 12:8 when he is cast down to earth there will be no place found any more in heaven. This will be permanent, they are rejoicing in heaven and we are warned of how bad this will be on earth, Revelation 12:12. In the Greek text, at the end of Revelation 12, Satan is the one standing on the sand when the beast in Revelation 13 rises out of the sea (bottomless pit)

I also believe people were before Adam and Eve, but another understanding. I believe the six days of creation were exactly the way it is written. Six 24 hour days and God said it was good at the end of each day, without any gaps, no evolution, and then the seventh day God rested from his work and blessed the seventh day.

I hope you take this in love, for you to look and study not as a debate.

God bless,

RLW

praise paul forall his journies and preaching the word of God yo all peoples who were in need of his effort.. yhank you J ESUS AND PAUL for grace to us.... A men and Amen.. take care and give care

This account of the confusion of languages at Babel and the dispersing of peoples throughout the world is instructive. God have commanded that people fill the peoples in Babel knew this command because it was expressed in the explanation of why they endeavored to build the tower to the heavens. They desired to remain together and the civilization that existed at this time promoted this. The spread across the world perhaps was inevitable as populations increased to need migration further away from the centralized hub of civilization. However, these people did not want to do what God had commanded and they thought they could resist God's actions by building this tower. isn't that the story of mankind down through the ages? trusting man's wisdom and innovation over God's directions and will? makes me wonder how much I have leaned on things man has developed or promoted rather than seeking God's direction first. I pray to live a more thoughtful life day by day as I hope to seek God's will in ALL things.

Some say that the world's land mass was centralized at this time and began to break apart and drift into two hemispheres. This could explain how easy it would have been for these generations to spread out and inhabit all lands of the earth. The breaking apart of the continents would have provided obstacles that allowed peoples to become isolated and develop genetic characteristics, lifestyles, and cultural traditions specific to their areas of habitation.

Also, the presence of similar societal laws, architectural structures, religious practices across the globe from ancient past seems to harken back to a common civilization at one time, which would be here in Mesopotamia.

I have wondered if Noah had any written account of life pre-flood or made any post flood that were passed down to his descendants. If so, they must have gotten lost at some point, as Moses was the one who put these Scriptures in writing.

I think it highly likely that pre-flood peoples had writings.

Agreed. Science may be able to explain some of the phenomena in the Bible, but that does not negate the work and words of our God as He communicates His will to us and shows us things for us to learn and grow in grace and wisdom.