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See my post to Jema.
We can talk more on this after I receive Jema's reply.
About the trinity:
God gives us the perfect object lesson in marriage. A man and woman become "one". But, they remain two separate people.
But, they are united as "one" in purpose ,plan, and action. (At least , that was the plan. Some marriages fail that aspect.)
And so, Jesus is God, with his own identity separate from God the Father, separate from the Holy Spirit.
Is this what you believe too?
"Right eye"
"Blessedness of man is established by the divine Will and it freely given in his Son to the saints chosen before the foundation of the world. It is open for those who have no confidence in their flesh but nevertheless would learn of the Son who was also in human likeness." (Select)
Blessedness which Jesus spoke to the multitudes was in the will of the(Is.63 Father. Jesus in his human likeness addressed it in terms of the body God has prepared for him.(Ps.40:8). This being the case the hard sayings which he spoke cannot be understood without the two qualities of holiness he presented to the world. He was the word become flesh. So it is impossible to interpret it in any other manner than grace and truth that came by Jesus. Does anyone think being blind prevents one from imagining evil or lust for another. Force of nature inflame the body entire and only grace and truth in heart of man can help his case.
"And if thy right eye offend thee, pluck it out, and cast it from thee: for it is profitable for thee that one of thy members should perish, and not that thy whole body should be cast into hell." (v.29)
Isaiah speaks of salvation in terms of "And he saw that there was no man, and wondered that there was no intercessor: therefore his arm brought salvation unto him; and his righteousness, it sustained him."(Is.59:16;63:5) His right hand denotes his Son. It is thus this Psalm refers to it."His right hand and holy arm have gained Him the victory."(Ps.98:1)
Lust of the eye or flesh can only be handled by grace. St Paul's own case can help us understand it. "And he said unto me, My grace is sufficient for thee: for my strength is made perfect in weakness. Most gladly therefore will I rather glory in my infirmities, that the power of Christ may rest upon me./Therefore I take pleasure in infirmities, in reproaches, in necessities, in persecutions, .... for when I am weak, then am I strong."(2 Co.12:7-10)
If the church as a whole took Jesus' words more seriously, our voice would be more respected in the world. When we neglect to address grievous sins in the church, we appear to take sin lightly. Skeptics can't respect our claim to honor the Bible as God's Word while we ignore those of our number who are overtly disobeying it.
GOD GIVES US HIS SPIRIT TO PERFORM WHAT WE CAN'T DO IN THE FLESH. AND THIS IS HOW WE KNOW HE IS IN US.
1 John 6:13.
We are of God: he that knoweth God heareth us; he that is not of God heareth not us. Hereby know we the spirit of truth, and the spirit of error.
Beloved, let us love one another: for love is of God; and everyone that loveth is born of God, and knoweth God.
He that loveth not knoweth not God; for God is love.
In this was manifested the love of God toward us, because that God sent his only begotten Son into the world, that we might live through him.
Herein is love, not that we loved God, but that he loved us, and sent his Son to be the propitiation for our sins.
Beloved, if God so loved us, we ought also to love one another.
No man hath seen God at any time. If we love one another, God dwelleth in us, and his love is perfected in us.
Hereby know we that we dwell in him, and he in us, because he hath given us of his Spirit.
God bless you Brother Carleton.
Part 4.
We use Brothern to loosely today. Everyone amongst us is not a Brother or a Sister!
Look at the example Jesus gives in Matthew 12:47-50.
"Then one said unto him, Behold, thy mother and thy brethren stand without, desiring to speak with thee.
But he answered and said unto him that told him, Who is my mother? and who are my brethren?
And he stretched forth his hand toward his disciples, and said, Behold my mother and my brethren.
For whosoever shall do the will of my Father which is in heaven, the same is my brother, and sister, and mother.
Romans 12:3 says not to think of himself more highly than he ought to think; but to think soberly, according as God hath dealt to every man the measure of faith.
We all have flaws and we're all of one body ministering by the same Spirit, having gifts differing according to the grace that is given to us by "THE GIFT" (Christ Spirit.) We are to exercise those gifts by the power of Christ Spirit.
We are to Love one another; I've declared that on this site since I've been on it using John 13:34-35 as a springboard.
Also, 1 John 4:20-21 and Matthew 7:15-16.
We shall be known by our fruit, not our gifts!
CAN YOU GENERATE THIS ON YOUR OWN?
Love amongst the brothern is not partial.
It's not determined by race, wealth, political parties, Gender, status in the church, or one's eschatology.
Love at its highest level is Agape. It's caused by the Holyspirit that knits us as one. It's to be totally given over to.
I've seen where one says he have the gift of discernment but yet he shuns other Brothern.
If you have an issue with a brother, you restore him. Galatians 6:1-4.
We must look out for each other. James 5:20 says, "Whoever turns a sinner from the error of their way will save them from death and cover over a multitude of sins." Confrontation may be difficult, but it is not loving to allow a professing Christian to continue in a sin that will bring God's consequences upon him.
See Part 5.
Of course, I do not mind, you have always treated me with respect and care.
What John 11:25-26 means to me. Jesus is the resurrection, His perfect life when He died on the cross and was buried in a tomb death could not hold Him. To me, it is the gospel, the simplicity of Jesus Christ, the message of salvation, and our hope in eternal life. Even if we die, we who believe in Jesus Christ will live as we see in John 5:29 the resurrection of life.
We sleep in death, but we have the promise of eternal life, we will never die. Those of the wicked and lost will face the second death, the permanent death of no return. As Jesus asked Martha do you believe this, regardless of what we face and the struggles and doubts we have in this world we go through in this fleshly body, all of our hope and trust must be in Jesus, who is the truth, the light, and what He said will come to be.
God bless,
RLW
" Think not that I am come to destroy the law, or the prophets: I am not come to destroy, but to fulfil." (v.17)
Blessedness of man is established by the divine Will and it freely given in his Son to the saints chosen before the foundation of the world. It is open for those who have confidence in their flesh but nevertheless would learn of the Son who was also in human likeness. 'For my sake' the heroes of faith learned to be meek.(He.11)
"Take my yoke upon you, and learn of me; for I am meek and lowly in heart: and ye shall find rest unto your souls.
"Blessed are the meek: for they shall inherit the earth."(v.5)
Meekness of Moses for an example which we came across, and is set in the Scriptures 'for my sake." His faith was already set so he would dismiss great many things for the sake of the Son who declared "I am lowly and meek" "Esteeming the reproach of Christ greater riches than the treasures in Egypt: for he had respect unto the recompense of the reward./ By faith he forsook Egypt, not fearing the wrath of the king: for he endured, as seeing him who is invisible."(He.11:26-27) His eye of faith kept him all through.
Isaiah spoke some 600 years earlier, "I gave my back to the smiters, and my cheeks to them that plucked off the hair: I hid not my face from shame and spitting./ For the Lord God will help me; therefore shall I not be confounded: therefore have I set my face like a flint, and I know that I shall not be ashamed./He is near that justifieth me; who will contend with me?"(Is.50:6-8) Jesus set an example and what he suffered was according to the Scriptures. "Blessed are ye, when men shall revile you, and persecute you, and shall say all manner of evil against you falsely, for my sake."
The Spirit instructs us in righteousness which was the portion for the Son in order overcome evil with love. "But I say unto you, That ye resist not evil: but whosoever shall smite thee on thy right cheek, turn to him the other also."(5:39)
Part 3.
Carleton, When I speak of demonic influence, I mean that literally!! I'm not name calling. Yes, I believe in that and I believe in demons also. There is no Holy kiss for that person!! This Holy kiss of acceptance is to and for the Brothern.
Romans 12:9 says Let love be without dissimulation. Abhor that which is evil; cleave to that which is good.
Abhor means to detest, or to feel abhorrence of; hate; dislike intensely.
When someone doesn't hold the truth that's one thing, but when someone stands in the way of the preaching of the cross of Christ that's another and it's evil. That's not a brother.
Look at Paul in Philippians 3:2. Beware of dogs, beware of evil workers, beware of the concision.
Paul calls them the enemies of the cross of Christ. And he says to MARK them! Philippians 3:17-19.
How do you reconcile these scriptures?
1 Corinthians 5:6-13.
2 Corinthians 6:14-18.
Listen to Paul in Titus 2:15. To rebuke someone is to admonish or convict. convince one of a fault. "This is from brother to Brother. Him you kiss, not an enemy of the cross of Christ.
We have those amongst us that promote a legalistic means of Justification that the scriptures identifies them as "Enemies of the cross of Christ." The scripture doesn't say greet them with an Holy kiss. In fact it says "Mark them which walk so"
However atleast they promote righteous living! They're just not justified before God in their efforts without a rebirth.
This person here in question, for the past three years or so doesn't promote righteous living at all! And they don't promote the acceptance of the work of Christ on the Cross as THE means for salvation! Would you say he's a Brother?
See Part 4.
I have waited to respond to something you said in this post for this last week seeking guidance on what to ask you.
So, I will venture here to do so. Please understand, I am not attacking you here. I just want to understand your view better.
You said that you are deeply offended when people say "God the Son". I would like you to explain why it offends you so much?
Do you believe that Jesus is God? Do you worship Him as God or as a Man?
Do you worship the Father, the Son, and the Holy Spirit?
What do you believe about the Godhead?
I would certainly appreciate your answers to these questions and what Scriptures you use to support your views.
As, you probably know, I believe the Trinitarian doctrine is the best explanation of what the Scriptures reveal about the Godhead. But I am trying to understand why people believe otherwise and what Scriptures they use to support their beliefs.
Part 2.
Here's is your response to the original post.
"Hello brother Spencer, Good evening! Thinking of doctrine, the Church practice of
giving and taking reproof by love maybe is part of what you are thinking? Church discipline and restoration?
God bless the walk.
Brother Carleton, That I absolutely agree with! However, that is not in the context of this message.
This message is more in line with Jude 1:3-4 with the focus on what is mentioned in verse 4 "For there are certain men crept in unawares,"
This has the thought of some has come into the fold sort of like through a back door.
Jude 1:10-15. He describes them. They are not Brothern. They are not Sheep.
As for "A Holy kiss.
Does the bible say greet "them" with a Holy kiss? No, I don't think so.
Romans 10:8-10 says the words is ni thy mouth.
These words is what we can confess to others if asked by what means are you saved.
However, what about the guy whom from his heart "by his mouth" speaks against truth?
We don't judge his present spiritual condition; he's done it ALREADY by refusing to believe and enter in the straight and narrow gate. See Matthew 7:13-15. and John 3:18.
What do these verses concerning a Holy kiss have in common? This Holy kiss is for the Brothern.
1 Corinthians 16:20.
2 Corinthians 13:11-12.
1 Thessalonians 5:26.
Romans 16:16.
The Holy kiss wasn't only meant to express love for the Brothern.
The Holy kiss is meant to express acceptance especially at a time when Gentiles was coming into the fold.
It certainly wasn't for non-believers.
Look at 2 John1:10. If there come any unto you, and bring not this doctrine, receive him not into your house, neither bid him God speed.
Also see Romans 16:17-18.
Does open rebuke harm a brother?
Open rebuke is better than secret love.
Faithful are the wounds of a friend; but the kisses of an enemy are deceitful. Proverbs 27:5-6.
See Part 3
"In the beginning God, through Christ, created man in the image of God, for perpetual existence, like wise the heavens and the earth, and everything was right and good. In this image of himself God gave man dominion over the earth and over all creatures upon it.
But when man had been deceived by Lucifer into the sin of death, he lost this image. Moreover he was dead to holiness and righteousness and had fallen into the realm of temporal death and corruption, but not into annihilation.
Thus man who had been made a ruler of the earth and all of its creatures, and for whose sake the world was made, had fallen out of infinity into the temporal realm of death and decay.
In the providence of God, heaven and earth and all the host therein had, by the fall of man, likewise fallen from the infinite state to the transitory state of death and decay, so that all that had come forth from the earth to the word of the Lord ( Gen. 1) returned to the earth, but not into annihilation; ...."
How do you understand John 11:25-26?
"Jesus said unto her, "I am the Resurrection, and the light: he who believeth in me, though he were dead, yet shall he live.
And whoever liveth and believeth in me shall never die. Believest thou this?"
I'm reading your comment:"If we reject Jesus as our savior there is no salvation. When we die in our sin and unrepentants, our soul is separated from him, and cast into Hell. This is the 2nd Death." True! And, I would like to comment on this topic.
The second death follows the judgement scene. Jesus, the mediator, shows the resurrected unsaved dead all their life from the books of record. (Angels follow us around recording all deeds.) And, then the unrepentant sinner bows to the LORD. He never repents. Yet , he will bow to the LORD. And, then, God by the sword of his mouth ( by his words that he speaks) the wicked will die forever. Cease to exist. No eternal life of suffering.
Eternal life is the reward ONLY to us who are saved.
Why would the LORD punish for ETERNITY a sinner that lived for only 70 years? Or 20 years? That makes zero sense. Our God is one of love, logic, order, reason.
Carleton
Part 1.
As promised, I'm returning to our discussion that I had to exit due to a lot going on during the week.
Just to recap what initiated this discussion allow me to back track a little.
A few days ago, you responded to me concerning a post I made.
Here's that Post.
And without controversy great is the mystery of godliness: GOD WAS MANIFEST IN THE FLESH, justified in the Spirit, seen of angels, PREACHED UNTO THE GENTILES, BELIEVED ON IN THE WORLD, RECEIVED UP INTO GLORY. 1 Timothy 3:16
All scripture is given by inspiration of God, and is profitable for doctrine, for reproof, for correction, for instruction in righteousness: 2 Timothy 3:16.
When "ALL" scripture is Allegorized or interpreted mystically it is NOT able to be profitable for doctrine, for reproof, for correction, for instruction in righteousness.
There is the difference.
One is just so happened to be correct.
Christ sheep does not leave the back door open for the wolves to come in because they hate the sheep fold.
End Post.
The first part of that post ( 1 Timothy 3:16) was in relation to a question asked. "Why we do preach the deity of Christ, "though it offends some. "Because it happens to be true!
The second part of that post ( 2 Timothy 3:16.) I mentioned to explain why and what method we use when we reprove, correct or instruct. "We use scripture as it is written without Allegorizing it or interpreting it mystically so it can be put on a spindle so it can be purposely taken out of context.
The third part of the Post is saying, just because one hates the Trinity doctrine it shouldn't cause a true believer to side and promote a false teacher/wolf and a Doctrine they don't believe in. Such as, "believers and unbelievers alike will become gods. Noone by the Spirirt of Christ would do such a thing.
See Part 2 concerning your response and a Holy kiss.
Part 1
If I may add a few points to this subject, I know we have different understandings on this and I hope you will not be offended, these are questions I have asked myself. What does Scripture support, our soul is an immortal entity that consciously lives on after the death of the body or does it sleep in the grave until the resurrection? Is the definition of death a separation of the soul from the body or is it the end of life, a permanent cessation, and the grave is our home until we are resurrected?
John 3:15-16 Without the belief in Jesus we will perish the Greek word apollumi means destroy utterly, to put out of the way entirely, abolish as in Psalms 37:10 Psalms 92:7 Proverbs 10:28-29 Job 20:4-7 Malachi 4:1-3 2 Peter 2:12.
Matthew 10:28 we are to fear the one who can destroy the body and the soul in hell, the Greek word for destroy is apollumi same as perish, a permanent/absolute destruction. Hell, the Greek word is geenna the fire and smoke that goes up and burns forever that never goes out is a reference to the lake of fire. Job 17:13 the Hebrew word sheol is the same word translated as hell. Job 17:16 the word pit is the same Hebrew word.
Our first death is sleep, Psalms 13:3 Daniel 12:2 Acts 13:36 1 Cor. 15:51. If all souls are immortal which means they have eternal life, the question must be asked, what is the gift of eternal life we see in John 3:15 John 6:54 Romans 6:23 Titus 1:2 1 John 2:25 Jude 1:21? If our soul is immortal, why do we have to put immortality on as said in 1 Corinthians 15:51-58?
See part 2
Part 2
My understanding is everyone will face judgment there is the first resurrection in Rev. 20 and the white throne judgment of all who have lived excluding those in the first resurrection who have already received their glorified bodies and judged, Rev. 20:4 and have been reigning with Jesus for a thousand years.
The second resurrection and judgment is called the second death, in this judgment, all who are not found in the Book of Life are cast into the lake of fire and they will perish, this punishment based on their works is everlasting to be no more, not an eternal conscious torment. We are given an example in Jude 1:7 of how the wicked will perish, the same way Sodom and Gomorrah were destroyed in the eternal fire for eternity never to be again.
Just a little of how I understand it, I know you know the Greek words' meaning better than I do, thank you.
God bless,
RLW
This comment is in reply to what happens to the condemned soul.
See on YouTube: Clash of Minds episode 178. At about 7 minutes into the lecture, Pastor Veith mentions that the condemned soul ceases to exist.
178 WUP Walter Veith & Martin Smith - Do not Worship The Beast And his Image, And Receive his Mark
Clash Of Minds
133K subscribers
Pastor Veith has dealt with this subject in previous lectures though I cannot seem to find it now.
The following quotes the New World Encyclopedia on Gehenna.
"The valley forms the southwest border of ancient Jerusalem that stretches from the foot of Mt. Zion to the Kidron Valley. It is first mentioned in Joshua 15:8. Originally it referred to a garbage dump in a deep narrow valley right outside the walls of Jerusalem where fires were kept burning to consume the refuse and keep down the stench. It is also the location where bodies of executed criminals, or individuals denied a proper burial, would be dumped. In addition, this valley was frequently not controlled by the Jewish authority within the city walls; it is traditionally held that this valley was used as a place of religious child-sacrifice to Moloch by the Canaanites outside the city (comp. Jer. 2: 23).
Like Sheol, Gehenna is sometimes translated as Hell."
Notice: "FIRES WERE KEPT BURNING TO CONSUME THE REFUSE"
The soul that sins will be burnt up and be eternal gone. Like sodom and Gomorrah. Burnt up and gone. Ashes under our feet.
This is in response to our earlier conversation. Does the condemned soul ceases to exist or does the condemned soul burn for eternity. The below verse was an example you gave of eternal burning.
"And fear not them which kill the body, but are not able to kill the soul: but rather fear him which is able to destroy both soul and body in hell." Matt 10:28 KJV.
This verse NOT proof of eternal burning. It IS proof that the condemned soul CEASES to exist. God destroys BOTH soul and body.
To live a life that glorifies You, Lord God Almighty. Amen
St Mathew's sense of reconciling the grand vision of kingdom of heaven in terms of the heart; of eternity in the now and holiness of God in the man become flesh is fit with the backdrop chosen for the beginning of the ministry of Jesus Christ. The high mountain chosen for this inaugural address is Zion laid before the worlds began. (Is.28:16) The eternal word forever settled in heaven and Jesus Christ the same yesterday, today and forever shall only be complet when it descends from heaven as New Jerusalem. So the doctrine presented by the Son of man shall remain as it is as long as the day decreed for the Son shall remain.
We shall take each verse by verse, Parables of Jesus are flesh given to it so its eternal verity shall be recalled under every clime and generation men with renewed force. For example Jesus said," Blessed are the poor in spirit: for theirs is the kingdom of heaven." Parable of the Publican and the Pharisee throws light into the nature of poor in spirit and holiness of God is not above in rewarding them. While the Pharisee justified himself even his knowledge of the Law began smelling foul for he was shredding the sanctity of His presence in the temple."And the publican, standing afar off, would not lift up so much as his eyes unto heaven, but smote upon his breast, saying, God be merciful to me a sinner./ I tell you, this man went down to his house justified rather than the other: for every one that exalteth himself shall be abased; and he that humbleth himself shall be exalted."( Luke 18:9-14)
4 Blessed are they that mourn: for they shall be comforted. The Life of Job is a lesson and we read thus,"So the Lord blessed the latter end of Job more than his beginning."( Job 42:12). Similarly so many saints who were blessed because tribulations became stepping stones for glory.
These things are caused by Satan and his demons, using sin as an entry point, and they can be passed down from one generation to another. Exodus 34:7 and Deuteronomy 5:9 "Thou shalt not bow down thyself unto them, nor serve them; for I, the Lord thy God, am a jealous God, visiting the iniquity of the fathers upon the children unto the third and fourth generation of them that hate Me."
Jesus gives a condition here, "if," to mean that not everybody is set free by the Son of God, but only those who choose to let Him set them free.
"The Son sets you free": Yes, He has the Power and Authority to set us free. He does not negotiate with the devils; He commands them. He has the power to forgive our sins. Matthew 9:6 "But so that you might know that the Son of Man has authority on earth to forgive sin . . ."
"You'll be free indeed": When Jesus sets us free, we are completely free. The freedom Christ offers is complete and not half. We're delivered from the powers of darkness.
May the Lord help us be free indeed, in Jesus' name.
Will you also agree with us that Jesus bless me with His word, 1 Corinthians 11:15.
All for the glory of our Lord God Almighty.
Thank you Goose
I have prayed for Scott and Chuck, and Jessica and your family. May God bless all today and answer our prayers in miraculous ways.
When it comes to our daily walk with God; it is helpful to have those who are more mature in the faith to guide and disciple us.
Those who have exhibited fruit in their lives through long term evidence involved in the ministry; whether leaders in the church or other acquaintances who are laypersons may not matter. Paul states "imitate me" in 1 Cor. 11:1 (easy to memorize with that identifier).
We do well to realize; without being cynical that everyone is subject to Christ and on this side of heaven capable of sin. This means we have to be careful not to put someone on a pedestal whether it be a spouse; or a Pastor. The first issue is whether we are truly desiring to emulate someone because of a personality trait or a genuine spiritual gift. The second; related to the first is if the gift has more significance either to us or the person in question as compared to the "author and finisher of our faith" Christ Himself. ( Heb. 12:2). We need to look through spiritual eyes and not always focus on who speaks the loudest or most eloquently; or makes the rules; etc. Of course we need not to obsess on someone who is physically attractive and all the related desires of the flesh that seek to undo us. Just take one look at the Christian "music industry" to see how clearly that is evident with the appearance of celebrities in all their glitz and glamour.
We need to see objectively how much of our time we spend in church activities along with the rest of our time is really helping us to do the things required of God; namely fulfilling the Great Commission; prayer and meditation on the scriptures. I have stated in previous posts that it is remarkable how much time believers tend to spend socializing when in fellowship and how little discussing answered prayers and scriptural promises fulfilled in their lives due to God's faithfulness. I am convinced this is one of Satan's best kept secrets and ties in with verses such as 2 Timothy 3:5.