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Adam,

(Part 2)

I think for a true believer, one who has been born of God's Spirit, they do have the guarantee of eternal life with Christ. There is no danger as you say it in believing that. But yes, I agree, there is danger in believing that salvation gives you the right to enjoy a life of sin and not follow Jesus. Indeed, that is dangerous!

I think I've said this before, but I'll say it again. I have Christ in me. I have salvation (Present Tense). Christ said He will never leave me. As long as I have Christ in me, I will always have salvation, and He said He will never leave me. So my salvation is secure. I have eternal life because the eternal one lives in me.

Just because I believe in eternal security, that does not mean I assume I don't need to follow Jesus or that I can enjoy a life of sin. That is, as you say, a dangerous thing to believe. I have yet to meet a believer that has told me that they can enjoy a life of sin because they are already saved and it doesn't matter. Not once have I met that person. If you found "thousands" of them online, that's not a place I care to look. Also, there's no such thing as an "ex-Christian."

You tell me that it is your view that salvation doesn't occur until we are all judged? With that view, a person can never know they have salvation until they stand before God. If we're not saved now, how can we call Jesus Christ our Savior? For me, salvation occurred the moment I received Christ.

Sorry, but I am going to need one more post. I could have been short in my answer but I think you deserve an honest response from me. I know you have a sincere love for the Lord, and I admire that. I will finish up in one more post, I promise.

Adam,

First, let me address your question about my comment. My answer is that the Christian will be judged at the Bema Seat of Christ. This is not a judgment to determine salvation. This judgment is to determine our reward. But there will be another judgment for the non-believer, which is the Great White Throne Judgement. No believer will be at that judgment. If you can't agree with that, I don't know what else to tell you. You used the verses in Revelation chapter 20 as showing that all will be judged at the same time. You can believe that if you wish, but that is simply not true. That judgment is strictly for the non-believer.

Now, 2 Corinthians 5:10, "For we must all appear before the judgment seat of Christ; that every one may receive the things done in his body, according to that he hath done, whether it be good or bad."

If you take that verse alone, the word "all" could mean everyone, I agree. However, if you take the chapter in context beginning with verse 1, it's easy to see who Paul is addressing in verse 10. He's addressing believers. So when he says in verse 10, "we must all appear," I look at who Paul is speaking to when he says we. He's talking to believers appearing before the judgment seat of Christ. That's the Bema Seat, not the Great White Throne Judgment. And yes, I see the word judgment, and I see the words good and bad. The believer will stand before the Bema Seat and be judged, and that which is of Christ, he/she will be rewarded for, and that which is not of Christ is going to burn, but the believer will be saved. But there will be a separate judgment for the non-believers.

I'll respond to the last part in a separate post.

Romans 10:17

So then faith cometh by hearing, and hearing by the word of God.

Galatians 3:2

This only would I learn of you, Received ye the Spirit by the works of the law, or by the hearing of faith?

The more Bible you can get inside of you, the stronger you will be in your faith. Read John 3, ask to receive the Holy Spirit. Ask HIM to teach you what the scriptures mean. Ask for what you need.

There are things you can do also, it depends on your persistence to pursue everything the Holy Spirit has for you.

Personally I gorge myself on Bible Reading every day almost. When I wash dishes I listen to FM RADIO, Christian radio teaching ministers; sometimes on AM radio too. I like Paul Shepherd and Greg Laurie.

Sometimes when the news is shocking, I listen on YouTube to King James Bible: Faith verses, healing verses, spiritual warfare Bible verses.

Sometimes I may listen to some Isaac Air Freight to enjoy some comedy from a Biblical perspective. The more you get inside of you, the quicker you will grow up. We're to be sober minded for sure, heavenly minded, but able to not lose our sense of humor.

Sometimes talking to our friends and family is less frightening if we have a balance of everything in our "quiver". A quiver is the sling we wear with our arrows in it. God uses arrows guided by the Holy Spirit. They change us on the inside first, and then the Lord uses us to be witnesses. He leads; we follow Him.

Mishael

Whiteley P.S. Gambling and taking a mortgage are in reality two different concepts, gambling is spending some money and hoping to get lucky, a mortgage is a legal transaction that involves insurance as backup, with gambling there's no backup, with mortgage the real estate is the security on the money. That being said not judging just explaining. In His Service

Whiteley Not judging but keeping this simple gambling is not Believing God to supply your need, gambling is not absolute believing God is based on trust, gambling is crossing fingers Trusting God is Believing the Accomplishment done on the Cross. In His Service It Appears Someone Is RATIONALISING.

Hello, you seem to have your opinion formed. I don't believe that interpretation because in my opinion it is not in accordance with scripture. I could repost all the verses I've already posted in other threads, but you've probably already read them. It's black and white to me what it means and it's interesting how people interpret things differently.

So, I'll just ask about one comment. You distinguished between giving an 'account' and being 'judged' and seemed to suggest that the Christian will give an account but not be judged. Is that your belief?

2 Corinthians 5:10

10 For we must all appear before the judgment seat of Christ; that every one may receive the things done in his body, according to that he hath done, whether it be good or bad.

To me, this verse says "all" which means all. Everyone. 'All' includes Christians. And it does indeed use the word judgment. And it does say both good or bad. So, you asked "What will the believer be judged for?" and the answer is in this verse: for what 'he hath done, whether it be good or bad.'

I think the danger in believing Christians have a guaranteed entry pass into heaven is some Christians will assume they are already "saved" and assume they don't need to follow Jesus anymore and can enjoy a life of sin. I've heard people deny this ever happens, but I know people now and you can find thousands of people fitting this category online, like on the ex-Christian reddit sub. It's my view that salvation doesn't occur until we are all judged. Life isn't over until it's over. Some denounce the faith late in life and some come to faith late in life.

The Bible supports having an assurance of salvation, and hope of eternal life for genuine Christ followers, but it doesn't say you have a guaranteed entry pass into heaven regardless of your actions. This is why Paul said to run the race well as if to get the prize. Why else would he say that if the race was already won and over. Why else would we need to stay on guard with armor of God on, and why else would we have to strive to live a Godly life if we're all saved regardless? I think satan is behind the deception and that the reality is just as Jesus said- that most people will go to hell, even those who were 100% confident they were getting in. Mat 7:21. God bless...

Amen, Brother Adam.

Isaiah 9:6. For unto us a child is born, unto us a son is given: and the government shall be upon his shoulder: and his name shall be called Wonderful, Counsellor, The mighty God, THE EVERLASTING FATHER, The Prince of Peace.

Revelation 1:8. I am Alpha and Omega, the beginning and the ending, saith the Lord, which is, and which was, and which is to come,( THE ALMIGHTY. )

Jesse Because of your comments before I figured how you would answer this. Thumbs up It Is Written

Earl When God said body he meant body when he said soul he meant soul when he said spirit he meant spirit, He says what he means and means what he says He's like man. I am the Lord I change not! Once again its your privilege to believe what you believe. In His Service Enough on this subject.

Hi Whiteley,

I will share my opinion, but I respect those who believe it is a sin for them and would not wish to cause anyone to stumble.

First, what exactly is gambling? Is it just taking a financial risk? Must it be in the form of a 'game' and where's the line as to what is a game and what isn't? I noticed one website said risking something of value (like money) on an event with an uncertain outcome with the hope of winning a prize.

If that is the definition we are going for, let's ask what activities fit that description: casino games, mobile games, card games, board games, gameshows, insurance (life, health, auto, travel, business), investing (stock market, funds, commodities, crypto, metals, etc), real estate, all businesses, all collecting, all buying and selling or trading. To summarize, I believe all transations and even living involves risk, including financial risk and meets the definition of gambling. It would be hard to argue that one form is 'gambling' and another isn't. Insurance is often fear-based and mitigating risk of a potential negative outcome and the assumption that having it will make you better off, but it's a gamble. Becoming a Christian is a 'risk' to some for potential persecution, may lose friends, may lose money from having good morals, etc.

So, can you find any verses to support or not support it? Yes. You can search some of the following topics...

Love of money is a sin.

Putting false gods ahead of God, or idolatry.

Honesty-

Addiction- we are to control ourselves

Coveting- we should not have strong desires for material things

How about prudent financial management, yes:

Parable of talents

I think drinking alcohol may become sin for some just as overeating may turn into gluttony, just as gambling may turn into sin. I personally do not believe placing a bet is a sin or risking money as much of life involves this.

God bless...

Jesse In my observation this is a confusing field in Gods word and I don't understand why. People keep saying don't change what's written so okay. We are born body and soul we have a body that's going to corrupt we took our first breath and became alive a living soul because according to Genesis 2:7 breath life is soul life, now when we get born again we receive the spirit of God Holy spirit Gods gift through confessing Romans 10:9+10, then we are body ,soul and spirit, before being born again exercising my sense of humour we are just a bunch of B.S.



When we die or or fall asleep body goes to dust spirit goes back to God who gave it and we take our last breath soul life is done. What I read spirit is spirit eternal, soul is soul breath life, body is formed dust of the ground that's what is written. With all due respect I don't look to correct more to understand, enhance and build upon. In His Service

This chapter doesnt specify what Babylon sin is for God to want to destroy them.

Thank you DAISY for clarifying this on the discussion forum. Maybe next chapters will disclose this?

Hello Adam,

I'll disregard your first question as you've asked me to do. Your question "how do I interpret those "asleep" in 1 Thessalonians 4:13-17?"

That phrase "asleep" is referring to the physical body. It gives the appearance of being asleep but it is dead. There's no such thing as "soul sleep" as some teach. The word death literally means separation. When we die physically, there is a separation that takes place. The soul separates from the body and either goes to be with the Lord (If we are saved), or goes to a place called Hades and waits for the resurrection that will take place after the thousand-year reign of Christ.

I understand every single person will stand before Christ and give an account. I can't disagree with that. But before I can answer you, I need to know your understanding of judgment. What will the believer be judged for?

It looks like you're saying that everyone will be judged at the same time, both believers and non-believers alike. Is that what you are saying? That is interesting because you use Revelation 20:11-15 as one of the verses that suggest to you that "everyone as a big group will be judged at the same time." Revelation 20:11-15 is speaking about the Great White Throne Judgement. No believer will stand before that judgement. That judgment is for all those who rejected Christ. They will all be judged and cast into the lake of fire. Not one single person who stands before the judgment spoken of in Revelation 20:11-15 will enter into heaven. The believer will stand before the Bema Seat of Christ, not the Great White Throne Judgment.

2 Corinthians 5:10 is referring to the Bema Seat of Christ, not the Great White Throne Judgment. (Two separate judgments!

There's a lot packed into Matt 25. If you would like to go over it, I would be happy to do so.

The person who has received Christ is not going to be judged to determine heaven or hell. Jesus Christ already paid for that. The believer will be judged to determine their reward

Hi Rick,

I see where you are going with this and I do thank you for the correction. It may have been more appropriate for me to say our soul departs and goes to be with the Lord. I oftentimes use the word soul and the word spirit interchangeably, even though I understand that there is a difference. My soul has been saved, but it's my spirit that has been made alive. So for me, whether I say my soul departs to be with the Lord (Which I could have said) or my spirit goes to be with Him, I see no harm done. Either way, a believer goes to be with the Lord. I could have just left it at that and not used either the word spirit or soul. The bottom line for me is that I get to go be with the Lord when I die. People often ask the question "What is the difference between the soul and the spirit?" It's a great question and a study in and of itself.

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Brother Earl,

According to Jesus, the Body and Soul are NOT the same.

Jesus speaks directly about this below.

Matthew 10:28

"And fear not them which kill the body, but are not able to kill the soul: but rather fear him which is able to destroy both soul and body in hell."

God Bless

LUKE 6

35 But love ye your enemies, and do good, and lend, hoping for nothing again; and your reward shall be great, and ye shall be the children of the Highest: for he is kind unto the unthankful and to the evil.

36 Be ye therefore merciful, as your Father also is merciful.

37 Judge not, and ye shall not be judged: condemn not, and ye shall not be condemned: FORGIVE, and ye shall be forgiven

LUKE 18: 9-14

And he spake this parable unto certain which trusted in themselves that they were righteous, and despised others:

Two men went up into the temple to pray; the one a Pharisee, and the other a publican. [a sinner]

The Pharisee stood and prayed thus with himself, God, I thank thee, that I am not as other men are, extortioners, unjust, adulterers, or even as this publican.

I fast twice in the week, I give tithes of all that I possess.

And the publican, standing afar off, would not lift up so much as his eyes unto heaven, but smote upon his breast, saying, GOD, BE MERCIFUL TO ME A SINNER.

I tell you, this man went down to his house justified rather than the other: for every one that exalteth himself shall be abased; and he that humbles himself shall be exalted.

[Do we ever consider how blessed we are that THE ELECTION PASSED TO THE GENTILES??

Have we ever considered the Jews who lived and died throughout the Holocaust? "Pray for the Peace of Jerusalem" is not a plea. It's a strong request by The Lord.

I read a prophesy by Arthur E Bloomfield, who said that the United States would do something so heinous that the Entire World would Turn Against Us. (Back in the 70's). We're here. It's happening. Our soldiers have been betrayed. The world views us as WEAK; from the White House, all the way down.

WHO WILL RISE UP TO DEFEND OUR FLAG, OUR CONSTITUTION, OUR BILL OF RIGHTS ??!!

VOTE & MAKE SURE IT GETS COUNTED THIS NEXT TIME.

They didn't teach that in High School did they?

He never sleeps, who watches over Israel.

Hi Earl In Genesis 2:7 And the lord God formed man of the dust of the ground body step1 and breathed into His nostrils the breath of life and man became a living soul step 2 can't be the same thing because the body was not alive until man was given the breath of life. Also 1 thessalonians 5:23 And the very God of peace sanctify you wholly; and I pray your whole spirit soul and body [it doesn't say soul and soul and it doesn't say body and body] be preserved blameless unto the coming of our lord Jesus Christ. I didn't write the book In His Service

How can i keep my faith strong

what is gambling?

is gambling a sin?



what is a mortgages loan?

is a mortgages, is it a form of gambling?

gambling is a risk to get rich or lost it?

to me a mortgages loan is also a risk, because if you are no longer able to pay, you also lost it?

so what is the difference between the two in the bible?

What do someone do if they are possessed by bad spirits?

Brother Rick, the body and soul are the same thing, different words.

Ezekiel 18:4 ..... The soul that sinneth it shall die.

Our body of flesh (soul) is the only thing that can die.

Spirit can not die. There is ONLY one SPIRIT (TRUTH) (THE WAY) (LIFE).

The wages of sin (unbelief, no knowledge of TRUTH, of LIFE, no light) (our sins of the flesh are COVERED in blood) is DEATH (separation from light, held in chains of darkness, confined to the bottomless pit, the grave, place of no perception). Until the Resurrection of Judgement.

When we die do we go to heaven,

Adam was a flesh-and-blood human being, so like us, his body was subject to wearing out, and one day his heart would stop, and the breath of life (spirit) would return back to God. Adam like us was not created immortal, he needed to eat of the Tree of Life to live forever, that is why it was hidden.

After Adam sinned it was a spiritual death not a physical death, the dwelling place for God in man, Satan's deception, physical life goes on after sin. Now we are under the judgment of condemnation and only by the grace of God and the gift of eternal life through Jesus Christ we are free from this judgment.

Jesus came and lived in the flesh and died and was resurrected so we could be redeemed from this state of death, giving us the opportunity of eternal life. Did Jesus return to heaven when He died? Jesus did not ascend to His Father until after He resurrected ( John 20:17).

The belief in our soul is immortal comes from ancient Greek philosophy, developed especially by two of the chief Greek philosophers, Plato and Socrates. The meaning of death, being a separation of the soul from the body also came from ancient Greek philosophy. This immortal soul and the meaning of death has been taught for so long it is not questioned today.

It is Platonism, Augustine of Hippo made a saint, held this philosophy. He was a theologian, philosopher with a strong influence on doctrines in the church, in the fourth and early fifth century.

We are buried mortal, dead, in corruption and we are raised immortally incorruptible ( 1 Corinthians 15:42-44)

All consciousness ends when we die. ( Psalm 6:5) ( Job 14:12-14) ( Job 17:13-16) ( Psalm 89:48) ( Psalm 115:17) ( Ecclesiastes 9:5-10)



We sleep in death until resurrection day, the day of redemption. ( 1 Corinthians 15:51) ( 1 Thessalonians 4:14). ( 1 Corinthians 15:52-54)

RLW

Martha This is a P.S. in the Gospels the disciples ask Jesus Christ how often to forgive he said until 70 Times 7 also in luke 15:11-32 is called the prodigal son, I like the forgiving father, God knows we all make mistakes its called sin.

A big thing to keep in mind learn from the error and change, that's why we have a saviour, your not alone nobody except Jesus Christ walked by the Spirit perfectly, also 1 John 3: 19-21 verse 20 For if our heart condemn us God is greater than our hearts and knows all things. Beloved if our heart condemn us not than we have confidence toward God.

Condemnation is a trick of the adversary if you know in your heart and actions you are doing the best you can according to His word don't beat yourself up. In His Service

Please disregard my first sentence as I see you said those in Christ will go there. I do wonder how people will go to heaven or hell before the day of judgment though, as 2 Corinthians 5:10 indicates ALL will face judgment and Rev 20:11-15 and Matthew 25:31-46 suggest that everyone as a big group will be judged at the same time. I don't see how that can happen if people are either judged as they die and go to heaven/hell or if they aren't judged at all.

Jesse Just curious since the body goes to dust and the spirit goes back to God where does the soul go, because the soul is breath life Gen 2:7. In His Service

Sister Nanette, may CHRIST IN US grace us with HIS understanding and HIS wisdom.

You are correct, The Spirit is ONLY CALLING OUT the manifest Sons of GOD; NOW, in the age of grace. (first death and resurrection)

But:

Romans 8:19 For the earnest EXPECTATION of the creature (CREATION) WAITETH for the manifestation of the Sons of GOD.

Romans 8:20 For the creature (CREATION) ITSELF shall be DELIEVERED from the bondage of corruption INTO the glorious liberty of the CHILDREN OF GOD.

The rest of creation (second resurrection and second death) will be delivered (to Spiritual truth and Spiritual life) THROUGH JUDGEMENT. ( Isaiah 4:4) The lake of fire that burneth with brimstone.

1 Corinthians 3:15 ....But he himself shall be SAVED; yet so as BY FIRE.

What a wonderful statement.

Rich My understanding of repentance in context of usage Acts 2:38 Repent and be baptized, the word repentance in that usage is to have a total change in state if mind and turn to God.

So I figure their sinners prayer is talking about the repentance, where as after born again forgiveness is after your born again and you sin and thank God for forgiveness in the name of Jesus Christ. In His Service

I think what someone meant by a 'sinners prayer' is a prayer to confess sin and profess faith in Jesus Christ. Is that your understanding?

Not all Christians necessarily call this a sinners prayer and I think the term is simply a convenient term to convey a prayer for becoming a Christian. There are scriptures supporting this type of prayer, like 1 John 1:9.

The specific term you heard isn't in the Bible, but just because a term isn't in the Bible doesn't mean the action behind it is automatically invalidated. For example, the word Bible isn't in the Bible, but that doesn't mean we shouldn't read and believe the Bible. The phrase "altar call" isn't in the Bible either, but is Biblical.

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