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thank you for your reply. As I stated in last post,I don't wish to go back and forth with you on this topic as we have already done so in the past. I hope your day goes very well. I am of to do errands. Hope to speak with you on another topic later.
Let us consider Lydia, the state which introduced the concept of money (600 BCE),- and check out its influence on American Constitution (Federalist papers #9 by Alexander Hamilton) Egypt for its 'divine rights' which came down to the West as the divine Rights of kings. Their contribution to civilization lay chiefly in the mode of writing, thereby perpetuation of myths ('The winner controls history') and Religion.
Military conquests are merely flash in the pan and do not belong in a vision which is introduced by the Spirit to instruct us in righteousness. (One swallow does not make summer- as the expression is.) So we shall turn to the position of the three ribs in the Bible narrative. They develop on the fall of man in the following manner.
The Spirit set the serpent in Ge.3 to introduce the manner truth can be wrongly applied. (I have already covered in my posts). Truth written in our inward parts accepts either Or. Either you do the will of God( do not eat the fruit) or let the context of the serpent's counsel lead you. Eve let the contextual truth guide her. She saw the way Satan wanted her see the fruit and affect her will. She disobeyed the will of God.
The three ribs similarly provide a context for the bear to devour much flesh whether it actually requires or not. So the mouth of the bear is a no man's land where truth can be twisted whichever way one wants. Noticed every one who resisted God the little horn and the beast are given to big mouth? "And a mouth speaking great things."(7:8 ) and "And there was given unto him a mouth speaking great things and blasphemies;"(Re.13:5) and finally Herod who was struck down by an angel. (Ac.12:23) He did not give glory because Satan muddled him head to look away from the truth. So he saw his own glory in speaking like gods. Fool of a man.
"I saw in the night visions, and, behold, one like the Son of man came with the clouds of heaven, and came to the Ancient of days, and they brought him near before him."
The Spirit presents the everlasting Covenant between God and Man as solemn and as grand it could be, considering a great congregation 'the clouds of heaven" are brought in as witnesses. This is a marriage between Heaven and the earth,-invisible God framing the world which is made to appear by his word.(He.11:3) The earth and the fulness thereof belongs to God and his Son is the Man in whom we are called and our faith is on the line. "And ten thousand times ten thousand stood before him: the judgment was set, and the books were opened"(v.10) includes us. With this in mind we shall see what do these four beasts signify in the history of mankind which is as much as a commentary of human civilization as well. Thus Israel called to be the firstborn whose glory was violently plucked off and given to stand as a man whose heart was not right before God. Israel was called to the fellowship but in rejecting the Son of man from Fellowship between God and Man.
in v.5 we have the second beast a second,"Like to a bear, and it raised up itself on one side, and it had three ribs in the mouth "
Medo-Persian Empire 'raised up itself on one side' What does it mean? They became a world empire in the breach made by Israel, and God let them win by the edge of the sword. Even so their dominion stood in context of the Son unto whom God has given everlasting dominion as the Spirit puts it. Their three military conquests over Babylon, Egypt and Lydia signify the three ribs. So much for historical facts. The Spirit uses them for our spiritual edification and warns us the pitfall of going against the express will of God as revealed in the Bible document.
In the line, "which sets the history of human civilization in the content of the everlasting covenant" please read as 'context' in place of content.
This is what we see of their nation, and man's heart and the state of it, is what we see even now. However they stand in direct frame of reference to the Son of man. For this reason the Spirit gives us this verse, "As concerning the rest of the beasts, they had their dominion taken away: yet their lives were prolonged for a season and time."(v.12) The phrase 'A time' separated from the season refers to a remnant being saved in the latter days.
vv.2-3
"Daniel spake and said, I saw in my vision by night, and, behold, the four winds of the heaven strove upon the great sea./And four great beasts came up from the sea, diverse one from another."
Night vision refers to the divine Will so we shall see the Ancient of the Days in session granting his Son- "behold, one like the Son of man came with the clouds of heaven" which sets the history of human civilization in the content of the everlasting covenant. Accordingly the Spirits enumerates his glory in this verse, 'Dominion, and glory, and a kingdom, that all people, nations, and languages, should serve him: his dominion is an everlasting dominion,"(7:14) This being the will of the Father what is the glory of the four beasts in the vision? They are set in the direct frame of reference to the Son.
God is in control and the four winds striving upon the sea describes action similar to this verse, "And the Spirit of God moved upon the face of the waters" consequently nations gravitate into distinct groups 'diverse from one another'
Let us examine the first one in v.4
"The first was like a lion, and had eagle's wings: I beheld till the wings thereof were plucked, and it was lifted up from the earth, and made stand upon the feet as a man, and a man's heart was given to it."
The lion refers to the lion of Judah in its primary sense. His eagle wings refer to God's loving kindness bearing the nation of Israel, "and how I bore you on eagles' wings and brought you to Myself."(De.19:4-NKJV) Israel was his firstborn. ("Thus saith theLord, Israel is my son, even my firstborn:"-Ex.4:22).
Secondary sense would refer to the northern and southern kingdoms of Israel. God plucked them ('the wings thereof were plucked) indicating a violent action, ransacking Jerusalem by Babylon and later by Rome explains it. "And made stand upon the feet as a man" explain Israel shorn of their glory but made to stand upon the feet as a man.
Medo-Persian Empire supplanting Babylon achieved three great military triumphs: Babylon, Egypt and Lydia. Let us consider Lydia. the state which introduced the concept of money(600 BCE),- and check out its influence on American Constitution (Federalist papers #9 by A. Hamilton) Leopard can be applied to Greece and also Mezo American cultures. Military conquests are merely flash in the pan and do not belong in a vision which is introduced by the Spirit to instruct us in righteousness. (One swallow does not make summer- as the expression is.) On the other hand the Spirit set the serpent in Ge.3 to introduce the manner truth can be wrongly applied. I have already covered in my posts). Truth written in our inward parts accepts either Or. Either you do the will of God( do not eat the fruit) or let the context of the serpent's counsel lead you. Eve let the contextual truth guide her. She saw the way Satan wanted her see the fruit and affect her will. She disobeyed the will of God.
The three ribs similarly provide a context for the bear to devour much flesh whether it actually requires or not. So the mouth of the bear is a no man's land where truth can be twisted whichever way one wants. Noticed every one who resisted God the little horn and the beast are given to big mouth? "And a mouth speaking great things."(7:8 ) and "And there was given unto him a mouth speaking great things and blasphemies;"(Re.13:5) and finally Herod who was struck down by an angel. (Ac.12:23)
In Ezekiel chapter 38 the battle of the Magog, the question I have is in Ezekiel 39, 9.
When is clearly understood that the battle is most likely going to happen at the end of the first half of the tribulation, 3 1/2 years of peace.
Explain verse 9 of chapter 39, and when Christ returns after the battle of Armageddon, with all his saints, he cleanses the Earth.
So, if the fire that he is talking about is for 7 years after the Magog battle, there's only 3 1/2 years left in the tribulation.
Any feedback is welcome.
18 For who hath stood in the counsel of the Lord, and hath perceived and heard his Word? who hath marked his Word, and heard it?
19 Behold, a whirlwind of the Lord is gone forth in fury, even a grievous whirlwind: it shall fall grievously upon the head of the wicked.
20 The anger of the Lord shall not return, until he have executed, and till he have performed the thoughts of His heart: IN THE LATER DAYS ye shall consider it perfectly.
21 I have not sent these prophets, yet they ran: I have not spoken to them, yet they prophesied.
You stated;
"There may have been a small percentage of Northern Kingdom Israelites who returned. Even just a small portion of the Jews who were taken captive in Babylon returned. Most Israelites from both the northern and southern kingdoms migrated out of the land of their captivity (or stayed) and were "scattered and mixed into all nations of the world" just as God had promised to do if they turned from Him. End quote.
Ok Gigi, you have 2 groups in that case. Those who migrated and mixed with other nations and those who stayed. Who do you believe to be the remnant? Certainly not those who mixed with the other nations which was forbidden!
Gigi Gal. 3-4 has absolutely nothing to do with The House of Israel verses the Church. It's contrasting the works of the Law and hearing of faith. (It has nothing to do with a ethnic group).
Gigi, you stated.
1 Peter does not apply to any ethnic Israelite who converted to belief in Jesus and are reborn of the Holy Spirit. The verse in the epistle of Peter only pertains to the Israelite who rejected God in the wilderness, in the promised land after conquering it, and the those who reject Jesus. They are all still in their sins and if no longer alive in this life, stand condemned for their sins because they did not believe God as Abraham and Moses and David did. End quote.
Here's the verse 1 Peter 2:7-8.
Gigi, I quoted that verse because you stated "We do not know if we are descended from the 10 tribes that were dispersed across the world, But God knows. End quote.
You suggested the possibility of a "fleshly lineage!
Gigi this lineage has a religion attached to their name, so if we're part of that lineage by way of the 10 lost tribes then the stone which the builders/Israel/us disallowed in 1 Peter applies to us also.
Gigi, The Church is not Spiritual Israel and Israel the remnant according to the election of grace. wasn't birth "at the cross", they were birth "BY THE CROSS".
God bless.
My understanding is that it was the Jews who where living in Israel at the time of Jesus who rejected Jesus at His first advent. The ten tribes that went into captivity in Assyria never re-established themselves in Israel as a consolidated group who worshipped with the Jews at the Temple at that time in history. There may have been a small percentage of Northern Kingdom Israelites who returned. Even just a small portion of the Jews who were taken captive in Babylon returned. Most Israelites from both the northern and southern kingdoms migrated out of the land of their captivity (or stayed) and were "scattered and mixed into all nations of the world" just as God had promised to do if they turned from Him.
In the time of the apostles, they spread the gospel across the known world at that time. It is very likely that many ethnic Israelites believed and became part of the Church Jesus established among the nation of the world. some of these Israelites were Jews who had retained their Jewish identity and faith and believed the gospel. But most of the northern kingdom Israelites lost their ethnic identity and mixed in with the peoples in the lands they migrated to, adopting their pagan religious practices. these Israelites according to the flesh embraced the faith in Jesus that the apostles brought to them through their evangelism.
My point isn't to herald anyone being of "Israelite" blood, because Paul and Jesus said that that is of no avail to them, but it is those who believe in him who are the true Israel of God. Gal. 3-4 speaks to this plainly (I have posted on this before) by faith as Abraham was justified.
Many people on here and elsewhere seem to identify Jews as the only Israelites. But the whole nation of Israel is much larger than the small portion of Jews that now live in Israel and in the world. People who descended from the dispersed Israelites are much more plentiful than simply the Jews. This was the gist of my post.
I believe that the true Israel of God are those who believe in Jesus, whether ethnically Israeli or Gentile. It does not matter which we are, as Paul so plainly speaks of this in Gal. 3-6. What makes us God's chosen people is our faith in Jesus, and God has chosen every believer since before the creation of the world. He knows all of the elect and calls them from every nation, tribe, and tongue, even ethnic Israelites.
The verse you quoted in 1 Peter does not apply to any ethnic Israelite who converted to belief in Jesus and are reborn of the Holy Spirit. The verse in the epistle of Peter only pertains to the Israelite who rejected God in the wilderness, in the promised land after conquering it, and the those who reject Jesus. They are all still in their sins and if no longer alive in this life, stand condemned for their sins because they did not believe God as Abraham and Moses and David did.
So, I do not wish to make a long back and forth conversation on this topic with you at this time, Steven. It seems that your take on what I posted is sort of a tangent that I never intended to pursue.
I hope you are doing well and I am thankful for you excerpts from Dave Hunt. They are helpful in understanding what is happening in the Levant at this time.
My understanding is that it was the Jews who where living in Israel at the time of Jesus who rejected Jesus at His first advent. The ten tribes that went into captivity in Assyria never re-established themselves in Israel as a consolidated group who worshipped with the Jews at the Temple at that time in history. There may have been a small percentage of Northern Kingdom Israelites who returned. Even just a small portion of the Jews who were taken captive in Babylon returned. Most Israelites from both the northern and southern kingdoms migrated out of the land of their captivity (or stayed) and were "scattered and mixed into all nations of the world" just as God had promised to do if they turned from Him.
In the time of the apostles, they spread the gospel across the known world at that time. It is very likely that many ethnic Israelites believed and became part of the Church Jesus established among the nation of the world. some of these Israelites were Jews who had retained their Jewish identity and faith and believed the gospel. But most of the northern kingdom Israelites lost their ethnic identity and mixed in with the peoples in the lands they migrated to, adopting their pagan religious practices. these Israelites according to the flesh embraced the faith in Jesus that the apostles brought to them through their evangelism.
My point isn't to herald anyone being of "Israelite" blood, because Paul and Jesus said that that is of no avail to them, but it is those who believe in him who are the true Israel of God. Gal. 3-4 speaks to this plainly (I have posted on this before) by faith as Abraham was justified.
Many people on here and elsewhere seem to identify Jews as the only Israelites. But the whole nation of Israel is much larger than the small portion of Jews that now live in Israel and in the world. People who descended from the dispersed Israelites are much more plentiful than simply the Jews. This was the gist of my post.
I hope and pray that I..........and all of you will begin to see yourselves the way Jesus Christ sees us. We are perfected in him.
Thanks again!!!
God Bless!
Bible Scholars have hazarded many names to the three ribs, none of which sit accurately with the manner gives the serpent episode in the fall of man. It resonates with the three ribs pointing to religion state and reason have muddled the mind of man. Reason is as enticing as the fruit forbidden by the Lord Go. Power inflames the senses very much as the serpent presented it to Eve. 'She had to have it. Wealth pursuit of happiness and health are three planks on which nations build their Eutopia. Have they ever delivered other than political doctrines?
However these Three ribs serve as political will resisting the will of God. Now in Colorado we are witnessing how reason has put itself into knots. The controversy of the 14th Amendment is not in the law incorporated after a clear and present danger but how interested parties would want to have it interpreted. One group warns that, if it moves forward, it risks robbing voters of the right to deliver their own verdict on whether the former president should return to the White House. Whether the former POTUS attempted a coup or deny the rights of people is not admitted. Whether political parties stand above the principle of the Constitution or is a creature is not determined. If parties do want choose one who has proven least fit for the office because he has so many who are suspicious of government and as the base seems the case here. Experience has shown the danger of one who is hellbent to destroy the legitimacy of institutions so long survived. To predict another civil war is inadmissible. It is thus Reason has created its own Halloween party, "trick or treat?"
I agree with Jesse. At the time of this Revelation of Jesus Christ to John (around 90 AD or perhaps a bit earlier), these 7 churches existed in Asia Minor, either planted by Paul, John, or some other apostle. These were actual cities in Asia Minor and the churches had existed there for a few or many decades, depending on when the gospel first reached the people there. Each church believed in Jesus and served the true God, but each church was a bit different from the others AND each Jesus highlighted specific problems in each church as a warning to them (and to us) of the dangers of developing false teachings and allowing sinful living to flourish in ourselves and in our church communities.
John must have known these churches. He may have placed the bishops, pastors over them at one time. He may have visited them to preach. It is known historically that John did appoint some bishops of Asia Minor. I think he appointed Polycarp.
So, John was not some type of hermit off a secluded place for most of his life in Christ. he was active in living out his apostleship until he was arrested for witnessing for Christ and exiled to Patmos, an Agean island.
Christ was speaking to John about these churches for a reason. One reason may have been because John would be released from Patmos and he returned to his apostolic work in Asia Minor until his death in about 95 AD. He most likely returned to these churches to help them get back on track. His Revelation in written form was been distributed among the churches also
Jesus was giving direct help to John in his apostolic work that he would continue after his release from Patmos. he was later martyred. Such a stellar disciple he was. Boiled in oil and killed for Christ's sake after a lifetime of serving the Lord heartily and faithfully. 26 AD - 95 AD into eternity!
are saved -
are being saved
8) 2 kings 23:29
in his days pahraoh-nechoh, king of egypt went up against the king of assyria.....
- pharaoh necho of egypt went up to the euphrates river to help the king of assyria...
(again a totally different scenario)
acts 8:37
....i believe jesus christ is the son of god.
- omitted completely
(there are many more more. i don't know which niv version i am using on my computor with bible gateway, as there has been 3 versions so far of this book. it seems to them the holy ghost can't quite make up his mind exactly what he wants to say so he has to keep coming back to fix it. actually, i believe that it has to be changed every so often in order for them to keep their copywrite so they can sell it. i'm not sure what version this is and what changes they made but it really is a mute point, they are all wrong.)
god bless you all who understand the wrong of modern versions of these books.:)
divine - divination6)
6) proverbs 18:
the words of a talebearer are as wounds and they go down into the innermost parts of the belly. (they really hurt)
- the words of a talebearer are like tasty trifflies' (i doubt anyone would agree that hurtful words taste good like candy.)
7) 1 corinthians 1:18
are saved -
are being saved
8) 2 kings 23:29
in his days pahraoh-nechoh, king of egypt went up against the king of assyria.....
- pharaoh necho of egypt went up to the euphrates river to help the king of assyria...
(again a totally different scenario)
5) proverbs 16:10
divine - divination6)
6) proverbs 18:
the words of a talebearer are as wounds and they go down into the innermost parts of the belly. (they really hurt)
- the words of a talebearer are like tasty trifflies' (i doubt anyone would agree that hurtful words taste good like candy.)
7) 1 corinthians 1:18
are saved -
are being saved
8) 2 kings 23:29
in his days pahraoh-nechoh, king of egypt went up against the king of assyria.....
- pharaoh necho of egypt went up to the euphrates river to help the king of assyria...
(again a totally different scenario)
5) proverbs 16:10
divine - divination6)
6) proverbs 18:
the words of a talebearer are as wounds and they go down into the innermost parts of the belly. (they really hurt)
- the words of a talebearer are like tasty trifflies' (i doubt anyone would agree that hurtful words taste good like candy.)
7) 1 corinthians 1:18
are saved -
are being saved
8) 2 kings 23:29
in his days pahraoh-nechoh, king of egypt went up against the king of assyria.....
- pharaoh necho of egypt went up to the euphrates river to help the king of assyria...
(again a totally different scenario)