All Discussion PAGE 2158

Hi Jesse.

I meant "Thanks again Jesse. "

not to good at multitasking.

If you accept Jesus as your savior, study and believe in HIS comming and the rapture will you also be caught up and rapture too?

George Carlin had them down to two.

Why are people under the delusion that Jesus was only a man if not God ?

Jesus is neither one alone .

Jesus is the Son of God as we all know , but do we understand what that makes him ? Most do not I think .

How did Jesus become the son of God ?

The answer is in the Bible the Holy Spirit from God came upon Mary who was holy or it never would have happened .

Yes sinful flesh can become holy . By putting away sin , and obeying God . Remember Enoch he walked with God and was taken to heaven , and also had a flesh inherited from the first Adam , as Mary had .

Jesus was born of God at inception within Marys womb .

The true Christ has and is come in the flesh, that's Jesus the Son of God , yet also Born of God through the Holy Spirit .

Here is how I understand how Jesus that is born of God was before the foundation of the World . It's quite simple , God the creator of everything and every man including Jesus was before all things exsisted , being the sole creator . Not hard to understand.

Since Jesus being born of God he also was with God before the foundation of the world .

Quite simple . Does that make him God ? No . But he is from God yes . The son of God . Not merely a man . But a man born also of God , he demonstrated the power of God as a man .

Yet he is not God there is only one God . The son of God come in the flesh . That's Jesus . And now at the fathers right hand ...

I hope that helps

Thanks another Jesse.

That's what I was thinking, I just wasn't sure. The greek certainly helps in this case and many others.

God bless.

please pray for myself and daughters Deanna and Jessica and there families

Isaiah 53 is in reference to what the Lord Jesus Christ did for us on the cross.

He was wounded for our transgressions (it was our old sinful lives which put the Lord on the cross in the first place)

6All we like sheep have gone astray; we have turned every one to his own way; and the LORD hath laid on him the iniquity of us all.

I agree with what you've written there. But you say that "this is a real problem to truth seekers".

I suppose, if the 'truth seeker' is not conversant with the Bible & only knows Jesus as the Son of God, then it would be correct to believe that Jesus had no prior existence, that Jesus was a specially created man, born of a virgin, without sin, had a great ministry amongst His people, & ultimately put to death for mankind's sins. But you feel that maybe the claim that "Jesus is God" creates a problem to these seekers.

If I were to share with such a seeker, I would have to speak to him about Who this Creator God is (i.e. His Nature/His Character); Who this Son of God is & Who this Spirit of God is. And all these terms we read of in the Bible which would require a lot of examination from the Scriptures.

However, I perceive that you may be questioning this yourself: if Jesus never claimed to be God and since the Creator God is One God, then why do some Christians claim that Jesus is God (or actually, that Jesus is part of the Godhead)? And since you want to see the actual words, "Jesus said that He was God" in the Bible, without inferences/allusions to that, then you would have trouble finding it. Mainly because that the Jesus we are introduced to in the Bible is found born a babe & then grown to be a man, Who was called both 'Son of God and Son of Man'.

So these terms signify Jesus' introduction into the World but the truth seeker would have to ask, "Could a specially created man, created to be the sacrifice for mankind's sins qualify to pay such a big price to appease the Creator God?" If yes, then why wouldn't a specially created animal by God (that is one that was truly spotless & unblemished than what the children of Israel provided for sacrifice) suffice for our sacrifice instead of man's death? What was about this Son of God that was different from any special creation that qualified Him to be our sacrifice? Your thoughts please?

Dear brother Chris, as brethren we must care that a fellow Christian whom has been found in a fault, and by love and admonition we help this one be restored to the True Faith once delivered even though we know the day of rest. Without this care we allow our example to be diminished in favoritism towards a fellow believing Christian found in the same fault as an unbelieving non- Christian. What witness of love is this for a brother in fault or a neighbor with a cry in their heart to know what is truth if we ignore our brother's fault. The harvest is not over because time continues, so our light must also continue to be a drawing, without hypocrisy.

Hello Adam. I have been reading all the comments on this thread (& others). And I don't want to 'clutter' this thread with further similar comments. But looking for that 'common denominator' that brings about this great division in understanding, I feel that it boils down to our perception of "who is a Christian?".

It seems clear that folk like Jesse, myself & others have a very 'narrow' understanding of the word "Christian", whereas yours & others, have a much broader understanding. The disciples were never 'Christians' during Jesus' days on Earth. They were simply Christ's disciples (as those under instruction by a Rabbi/teacher) & they followed Christ in His ministry. It was only after the Church was established that these followers of Jesus were referred to by other terms. One term was, "The Way" Sect, probably as seen by its use in Acts 9:2; 19:9,23; 24:14,22. Another term was, "The Sect of the Nazarenes" ( Acts 24:5). And yes, they were also called "Christians" first in Antioch ( Acts 11:26) & was used as a derogatory word ('Followers of the Anointed").

But if we take that name given to Christians as valid for us today (as it is), then we must know what that name implies. Can it just be applied, as the world & Christendom generally does, to any who profess to follow Christ, goes to Church, prays to God, reads from the Bible, etc.? Or, should the word apply to those who have been brought under conviction of sin by the Holy Spirit, born again, infilled & in constant communion with the Spirit? I think you will agree to the latter which is in stark contrast to the other.

Then you gave an example:"I know a Christian right now who has premarital sex, watches porn, and does drugs" & say that we believe that this is a Christian, then I (& we) would disagree with you. Ultimately, God is the only judge of our hearts, not us. All I know is the one who is a true Christian lives a different life, follows different Laws (of the Spirit) & cannot live in unrestrained sin.

Hi Mishael ,thankyou for your interesting post ,i dont not believe in any kind of demon possesion ,i believdoin mental illness ,i have known and do know many people suffering from mental illness who have been helped to lead normal happy lives by medication ,if they had been possesed by demons or evil spirits i cant imagine the medication would have helped them much .

TLDR ? What is that please ?

Especially in the old testament God states very often that He is God alone and there is none beside Him .Is God lying in the old testament ? Is it a different God because it is the old testament ? Is God the author of confusion ?

Definately NOT secret and silent ! As a young person i searched through many denominations looking for the Truth ,one very well known church actually believes that Jesus will be born again as a baby ! Im glad i didnt stick with them !

2 Timothy 2:10-13

Therefore I endure all things for the elect's sakes, that they may also obtain the salvation which is in Christ Jesus with eternal glory.

It is a faithful saying: For if we be dead with him, we shall also live with him:

If we suffer, we shall also reign with him: if we deny him, he also will deny us:

If we believe believe not, yet he abideth faithful: he cannot deny himself.

By the way, if someone denies that a Christian is capable of sinning, perhaps consider hearing some testimonies. Or just ask Christians you know and trust and maybe they will open up to you. There are a bunch of testimonies on this website too and many include Christians who have fallen away, committed all kinds of sin and have rededicated themselves. Of course, not all who fall away come back, just like Judas denying Jesus. He was literally a follower of Christ so he was a Christian in the truest sense of the word. Consider reading the ex-Christian forum on reddit and ask yourself if everyone there will be saved, regardless of their actions. Some have gotten into the occult and demonic practices. That argument that Christians are either incapable or don't sin quickly falls apart when you actually know people who have done that. And then the argument that they were never real Christians to begin with just contradicts itself. Because what then is your definition of a Christian and what precisely do they have to do? Do they have to believe, repent, confess sin, and be baptized or do they need to be more. Because Christians did that exact thing and followed Jesus for years before deciding not to. It's such a strange argument to deny that reality. It's a very sad thing when a Christian leaves the faith, but it's also sad to deny it. Consider praying deeply about this and I will as well. God bless.

Dear Jesse,

My point was that Jesus's words were and are for all, and your point is that they aren't. Then I ask you to backup this with scripture and you dodged and asked me that. Just so I understand, your argument is that not all of Jesus's words and message is for everyone, such as to Christians? If Jesus's mentions about blaphemy don't apply to Christians, then what else do you think doesn't apply to Christians? What process do you use to determine which of Jesus's words then apply to you?

Your other argument seems not based on scripture, but merely an emotional speculative one about you not feeling capable of certain sin. That's great if you feel protected, solid, and have your armor of God on at this time. Just because you personally don't feel you're capable of something at this point of time doesn't mean it's impossible for someone in general to falter. Anyone can be tempted by satan. Plenty of Christians have had affairs, lied, done drugs, coveted, even killed, followed the world, and have even backtracked and drifted away from Christ. It's a strange argument to claim to deny that Christians have freewill to sin, and have the freewill to commit horrible unspeakable acts, including blaphemy.

>I DO NOT believe I have any right to live a lifestyle of sin because I'm saved regardless. You are going to be very hard pressed to find someone who believes they can "commit unlimited sin, and enjoy sin, to live in the world, to love the world, and assume they have a get out of hell free card?"

It's hard to comprehend this as you appear to live in another world. Christians are rampantly involved in sin. It's absolutely sickening to see. I know a Christian right now who has premarital sex, watches porn, and does drugs and stopped going. According to you he can have total assurance of salvation with zero concern? What if he kills? What about blasphemes? No worries? If so why did Jesus say the opposite to Christians? Luke 12:5, 2 Corinthians 5:10, Hebrews 10:26

Hi Michael,

I very much understand in the "danger" in that some may believe it doesn't matter if they sin willful etc. In thinking "I can't lose my salvation". Maybe picking and choosing not reading the Bible as a whole. As I noted two ways the Lord knows who are His: faithful, obedient, giving their lives to the Lord, and endure all the way to the end & a pure heart and who are truly devoted to the Lord shall endure till the end.

I understand Jesse & others view of basically that if you veer and one day reject the Lord, as many have done, you were never really saved in the first place. Also I understand yours, and others, view in basically we have free will and we must fight the good fight all the way to the end. The devil is always at work in this evil world and we must always focus on keeping the full Armor of God on.

Me making that post was to just to put another perspective in that the Lord knows who is going to spend eternity with Him.

I understand and respect both views. As long as a person is truly devoted to the Lord, with a pure heart, and endures to the end. Living for the Will of our Father and doing what pleases Him. They are the Children of God and heirs with Jesus Christ who gave His life to save us all. We must follow the ways of Christ.

I appreciate your reply brother Michael. The post you replied to was just to bring peace between two perspectives. I think both perspectives agree we must stay focused on the Lord and diligently serve Him with a pure heart. To the end.

God Bless.

Revelation 1 verse 7

Behold he cometh with clouds ;

And every eye will see him ...

Hardly secret or silent ?

Hi Earl,

Just to add a couple details to Jesse's correct reply. The word "aioni"(or variant) is translated in the NT as a couple different words "ages, eternal, ever, world/worlds". The most used is "world" and "ever". As noted "kosmos" is used a bit more for "world".

The two full definitions of this word "Strongs G135" are:

Strongs Definition: properly an age; by extension perpetuity (also past); by implication the world; specifically (Jewish) a Messianic period (present or future)

Thayers Definition: 1. for ever, an unbroken age, perpetuity of time, eternity 2. the worlds, universe 3. period of time, age.

God Bless.

Hello Jesse,

I would share another angle of the verse you quoted. Please, read carefully the verse.

Romans 8:38-39 "For I am persuaded, that neither death, nor life, nor angels, nor principalities, nor powers, nor things present, nor things to come, Nor height, nor depth, nor any other creature, shall be able to separate "US" from the love of God, which is in Christ Jesus our Lord.

The word "US" is referring to believing and obedient Christians. It is not referring to those Christians who have stopped believing and obeying God. There are those who that. Very faithful for years and then they apostatize. We can keep ourselves in God's love or we can not keep ourselves in God's love. It is our choice. We are told by the Apostles to fight hard to not stop believing or willfully practice sin.

John 15:10 "IF ye KEEP my commandments, ye shall abide (remain) in my love; even as I have KEPT my Father's commandments, and abide (remain) in his love."

Jude 1:21 "KEEP YOURSELVES in the love of God, looking for the mercy of our Lord Jesus Christ unto eternal life."

1 Corinthians 9:26-27 "I (Paul) therefore so run, not as uncertainly; so FIGHT I, not as one that beateth the air: But I KEEP UNDER MY BODY, and bring it INTO SUBJECTION: lest that by any means, when I have preached to others, I myself should be a CASTAWAY.

2 Timothy 4: 7-8 "I" (Paul) have FOUGHT a good FIGHT, "I" (Paul) have FINISHED my course, "I" (Paul) have KEPT the faith: HENCEFORTH there is laid up for me a crown of righteousness, which the Lord, the righteous judge, shall give me at that day: and not to me only, but unto all them also that love his appearing.

Revelation 3:5 "He that OVERCOMETH, the same shall be clothed in white raiment; and I will NOT blot out his name OUT of THE BOOK OF LIFE, but I will confess his name before my Father, and before his angels."

Good day, Jesse.

S Spencer,

We read about blasphemy of the Holy Spirit in Matthew 12:31-32. In Verse 31, Jesus introduces the unpardonable sin and I want to point something out to you. See the word "wherefore?" The Greek literally reads "On account of this."

And what it means is that the foundation or premise for the teaching of the unpardonable sin is found in Matthew 12:30 where He says the one who is not with me is against me, and the one who is not continually gathering with me is being scattered.

Blasphemy is a word that is used to express rejection. This would be a person who refuses to gather with Christ in the whole process of the testimony of God's Spirit. If they reject God's Spirit, and His persuasion and His conviction over their life, they cannot be forgiven for that.

To answer your question, when God's Spirit enlightens a person to the truth, that person will either be drawn to the light, or they will try and get away from it. But there will always be a response to God's Spirit testifying to that person. A person who is receptive to the truth, God's Spirit will continue to draw that person to Christ, and eventually, that person will surrender their life to Him.

Now the person who is not receptive to the persuasion of God's Spirit showing them their condition and need for Christ, I don't believe God will give up on that person immediately. I believe it is a continuous rejection and if a person dies in that state of rejection, their sins will never be forgiven.

When God gives someone over to a reprobate mind, that is not a good thing for that person. It is basically God giving up on them because God knows who those are that will never surrender their life to Him.

Earl,

The Greek word KOSMOS is used in several places for our English word world. In Matthew 12:32, KOSMOS is not used. Instead, we see the words AIONI, and then we see the word MELLONTI. The KJV says neither in this world, neither in the world to come.

Reading it from the Greek text and replacing KOSMOS with the two Greek words I just mentioned, it reads, "Neither in this age (AIONI), nor in the coming one (MELLONTI).

So the Greek text has more than one word for our English word world. If you are needing every place these words are used and the application in each instance, this will take quite a bit of time for me to do. Hopefully, just the two in Matthew 12:32 will suffice.

Hello Adam,

Do I have a Bible verse to support my belief that blasphemy of the Holy Ghost can't be done by believers or Christians? No verse that specifically says so. But to use one of your analogies, the bible doesn't say that Jesus ever went to the bathroom, but I'm sure He did.

Let me ask you this. You're a Christian. I have no reason to believe otherwise. I know you have a deep love for our Lord and Savior. So let me ask you, do you personally believe that you will ever blaspheme the Holy Spirit?

And no, Judas was not a Christian. Jesus chose an evil man (Judas) to fulfill an evil deed that was prophesied. Judas was a thief the whole time he was with Christ. Jesus knew Judas was evil and that's why he chose him. He needed an evil man to fulfill an evil deed.

Matthew 13:10 tells me that Jesus was speaking a parable to unbelieving Jews. The only reason why the disciples would understand is that they would come to Him and ask Him what these parables meant.

To answer your question about free will, I will ask you, do you believe you will turn your back on Jesus and commit the unpardonable sin?

I believe that I still have free will. I can choose to be disobedient. But God has a way of chastising and disciplining those who belong to Him and sometimes it can be very harsh.

I can't speak for others but I can speak for myself on your last questions. I believe in the permanency of salvation. However, I DO NOT believe I have any right to live a lifestyle of sin because I'm saved regardless. You are going to be very hard pressed to find someone who believes they can "commit unlimited sin, and enjoy sin, to live in the world, to love the world, and assume they have a get out of hell free card?"

Finally, you say that "Many Christians would love to commit sin if they knew they were saved regardless." I've known many Christians in my lifetime, but have yet to meet one that believes that way.

Hello Richard,

The danger of believing that we cannot lose our salvation is that a person may thus not take seriously the importance of carefully safeguarding our "faith" and not giving in to "willful" sin that can rupture our relationship with God. John 15:10 ; Jude 1:21.

2 Peter 3:16 "As also in all his (Paul's) epistles, speaking in them of these things; in which are some things hard to be understood, which they...wrest, as they do also the other scriptures, UNTO THEIR OWN DESTRUCTION."

1 Corinthians 9:26-27 "I therefore so run, not as uncertainly; so fight I, not as one that beateth the air: But I KEEP UNDER MY BODY, and bring IT INTO SUBJECTION: lest that by any means, when I have preached to others, I myself should be a CASTAWAY."

2 Timothy 4:7-8 "I" (Paul) have fought a good fight, "I" (Paul) have finished my course, "I" (Paul) have kept the faith: HENCEFORTH there is laid up for me a crown of righteousness, which the Lord, the righteous judge, shall give me at that day: and not to me only, but unto all them also that love his appearing.

To say that a person who stops believing and obeying God was never really a Christian is superfluous. God promises that if a person repents and believes in Christ, he will have his sins forgiven. Acts 3:19. When gentiles did this, they received the Holy Spirit from God and were baptized in water. They became part of the Church. Acts 10:44-48. However, they must now be careful not to abandon their faith (apostatize) or give in to the sinful flesh with no care or repentance.

Hebrews 12:15-17 Looking diligently lest any man FAIL OF THE GRACE OF GOD; lest any ROOT OF BITTERNESS SPRINGING UP trouble you, and thereby many be DEFILED; Lest there be any fornicator, or profane person, as Esau, who for one morsel of meat SOLD HIS BIRTHRIGHT. For ye know how that afterward, when he would have inherited the blessing, HE WAS REJECTED: for he found NO PLACE OF REPENTANCE, though he sought it carefully with tears.

Good day, Richard.

Hello S Spencer.

Thank you for your response.

I commend you for citing verses that clearly show that Paul is talking to actual believers. They were "Holy Brethren". They had believed in Jesus Christ and were very surely baptized in water. That would make them part of the Church.

However, very serious warnings are given to not lose faith and to not stop trusting in the sacrifice of Jesus Christ. Please take specific note that the Apostle Paul does not say "you" but "we". In other words, he includes "himself" in those warnings.

Hebrews 2:1 "Therefore WE ought to give the more earnest heed to the things which WE have heard, lest at any time WE should let them slip."

Hebrews 2:3 "How shall WE escape, if WE neglect so great salvation; which at the first began to be spoken by the Lord, and was confirmed unto us by them that heard him;"

Hebrews 3:12 "Take heed, BRETHREN, lest there be in any of you an evil heart of UNBELIEF, in DEPARTING from the living God."

Hebrews 3:14 "For WE (includes Paul) are made partakers of Christ, if WE HOLD the beginning of our confidence stedfast UNTO THE END;"

Hebrews 12:15-17 "Looking diligently lest any man FAIL OF THE GRACE OF GOD; lest any ROOT OF BITTERNESS SPRINGING UP trouble you, and thereby many be DEFILED; Lest there be any fornicator, or profane person, as Esau, who for one morsel of meat SOLD his birthright. For ye know how that afterward, when he would have inherited the blessing, HE WAS REJECTED: for he found NO PLACE OF REPENTANCE, though he sought it carefully with tears.

Hebrews 6:6 "If they shall FALL AWAY (apostatize), to renew them again unto REPENTANCE; seeing they crucify to themselves the Son of God afresh, and put him to an open shame."

2 Peter 2:20 "For if after they have escaped the pollutions of the world through the knowledge of the Lord and Saviour Jesus Christ, they are again entangled therein, and OVERCOME, the latter end is worse with them than the beginning."

Overcome means definitely. No return.

I am of the opinion that there is one crime, I welcome the discussion.

Theft/stealing

No other gods: theft of attention.

No other idols: attention.

No vain use of God's name: no theft of God's invocation, ceremonious only.

No work or direct theft of services on Sabbath.

Honor your parents or your land and life will be stolen.

Do not murder: theft of life.

Adultery is theft of Love/exchange of Love for lust.

No stealing: see above and below

No false witness: stealing another's opportunity to have the truth heard

No covet: falls back on adultery, idols and gods.

The further commandments and can also be reduced to either greed which is the motivation for theft.

theft is bad.

TLDR: Theft is the only sin.

Hello Dan,

Thank you for taking the time to answer my 2 questions.

1) You mention that the commandment at Leviticus 12:3 was a "suggestion". When the Law was give to Israel, they made a covenant between themselves and God. Please read Exodus 34:3-8. Notice specifically

Exodus 24:3 "And Moses came and told the people ALL THE WORDS of the LORD, and ALL THE JUDGMENTS: and all the people answered with one voice, and said, ALL THE WORDS which the LORD hath said will we do."

That does not sound like a "suggestion" but a command - an order. Jewish people have thus very meticulously made certain to circumcise their children. Moses was almost killed by the LORD because he had not circumcised his son. Please read Exodus 4:24-26. That seems to me that the LORD takes circumcision very, very seriously. In fact, in the first century, even believing Jews believed that a believer in the Messiah must be circumcised to be saved.

Acts 15:1 "And certain men which came down from Judaea taught the brethren, and said, EXCEPT YE BE CIRCUMCISED after the manner of Moses, YE CANNOT BE SAVED."

2) You mention that the first century Church followed the 10 commandments.

I do agree that they did follow 9 of those commandments. They are re-iterated in the New Testament or Covenant set up by Jesus through his blood mentioned at Jeremiah 31:31-34 and Luke 22:20. However, nowhere do the Apostles every tell the Church, in clear words, "remember to keep the sabbath". Could you provide me 1 verse where an apostle clearly says to keep the sabbath - that actual word "sabbath" being used? In fact, Paul says the opposite at Colossians 2:16 and Galatians 4:10.

3) Now to answer your question. The apostles did not ever say that they obeyed the "10" commandments. They said that they obeyed the commandments. Those would be the commandments of the New Testament given by Jesus Christ through his Apostles via the letters of Romans to Revelation.

I welcome your thoughts again.

Good day to you, Dan.

"We'll knock out everyone's teeth," Putin Warns those who seek to "bite a chink out of Russia." He said: "The key is our developed armed forces."

Putin has game-over "devices" confidence ( Daniel 11:25). The king of the north strength.

The "spoiler at noonday" commands a 3pm strike, when the sun is yet high in the sky.

( Jeremiah 15:7-9)

7 And I will fan them with a fan in the gates of the land; I will bereave them of children, I will destroy my people, since they return not from their ways.

8 Their widows are increased to me above the sand of the seas: I have brought upon them against the mother of the young men a spoiler at noonday: I have caused him to fall upon it suddenly, and terrors upon the city.

9 She that hath borne seven languisheth: she hath given up the ghost; her sun is gone down while it was yet day: she hath been ashamed and confounded: and the residue of them will I deliver to the sword before their enemies, saith the LORD.

( Isaiah 47:7-9) Different prophet, same DOTL account.

7 And thou saidst, I shall be a lady for ever: so that thou didst not lay these things to thy heart, neither didst remember the latter end of it.

8 Therefore hear now this, thou that art given to pleasures, that dwellest carelessly, that sayest in thine heart, I am, and none else beside me; I shall not sit as a widow, neither shall I know the loss of children:

9 But these two things shall come to thee in a moment in one day, the loss of children, and widowhood: they shall come upon thee in their perfection for the multitude of thy sorceries, and for the great abundance of thine enchantments.

( Revelation 13:3)

I like your thoughts. They have elements of the truth and I believe they are your truth. Are you a saved vessel moving forward though and do you know your left from your right? If so what does the Breastplate of Christ stand for? Once in Grace always in Grace--you will have Tribulations but Be of Good Cheer, For I have overcome the World. Amen.