All Discussion PAGE 2169

It is refreshing to read the discussions on this site. A little on me, who I am and what I am doing.

I making notes on a study I am doing and moved Matthew 24 to the beginning. The study began years ago Matthew 5-7, the Sermon on the Mount and expanded from there to here.

When taking course 50 years ago I was required to us the American Standard Version, not because of the different language, but for the wide outer margin. I decided to use desktop publishing and now have this study in the KJV with a 2 1/2" margin on the right.

The Matthew Henry Commentary outline

Christ foretells the destruction of the temple. (1-3)

The troubles before the destruction of Jerusalem. (4-28)

Christ foretells other signs and miseries, to the end of the world. (29-41)

Exhortations to watchfulness. (42-51)

The question I now have is "What does Jesus say about those who spend so much time attempting to define the date for the End Time?" Jesus has told us that we are not to know WHEN. He has also told us not to concern ourselves about this, and to only be aware of it. I think of the Boy Scout Moto, when I read on this subject, "Be Prepared"

Ref Matthew 23:23-26 Are those who are attempting to define these things the ones mentioned here?

"23 Then if any man shall say unto you, Lo, here is Christ, or there; believe it not.

24 For there shall arise false Christs, and false prophets, and shall shew great signs and wonders; insomuch that, if it

were possible, they shall deceive the very elect.

25 Behold, I have told you before.

26 Wherefore if they shall say unto you, Behold, he is in the desert; go not forth: behold, he is in the secret chambers;

believe it not." (KJV)

I'm in need of prayer because I need to resubmit my passion for God

Yes please pray for to git out of this usive relationship anray the devil tuurn my check loose in Jesus holy name so I can move in my own home I'm staying on the streets pleas.

Pray for our country and for isarel my lost children

Thank you brother Dan for providing the Scripture: Romans 11:13-16. I understand that you see from these verses that both the "Israelites & Gentiles are subject to the same 10 commandments".

If we read the whole passage, we see Paul referring to the "election of grace" (v 5), whereby those Jews, with blinded eyes, deaf ears, & a spirit of slumber, failed to take hold of God's Grace & rested on their works (which by inference is to the Law of Works) to obtain salvation. And through their fall & removal from the olive tree, those of believing Israel, including believing Gentiles were grafted into that natural tree, which represents those whom the Lord regards as His Own (by election), those who have taken hold of God's Grace in salvation.

You're seeing this grafting in of the Gentiles with the believing Jews as a sanction from God that all be brought under the Law or to obey it. I see the opposite: I see the election of Grace at work, whereby those who were cut out from the tree because of their reliance on the Law to save them, have given up their privileged position to those who have not relied upon the Law to save them, but have submitted themselves to the Grace of God for His salvation.

And if our salvation (for both Jew & Gentile) is dependent on God's Grace, then it is no more of works. As Paul said in the same chapter, verse 6: "And if by grace, then is it no more of works: otherwise grace is no more grace. But if it be of works, then is it no more grace: otherwise work is no more work." And this work that he was referring to was Israel's dependence of the working (fulfilling) of the Law towards their salvation. And to this, God's Grace was in opposition, for salvation cannot come by appealing to & relying upon the Law of Works. If salvation then is by Grace alone (which I know you believe), why refer to a Law that only leads to death when the new Law of the life-giving Spirit in us sets us free from the Law of sin & death? And Galatians 3:21.

I just prayed to God and I am not sure he listens to me. It may be that he gave up on me because I am a sinner.

Hi Chris , this is going just where I thought it would go. A debate. Not interested . However I will say this much about your first point. How you can twist the original creation of the Sabbath as a commandment for Israel is behond me. In the garden of edan there was no Israel nation , nor was it created for many years to come and even then the Israel nation was created to be a example of carrying God's Truths to the world. They then became God's chosen people with special protection , but then they lost that protection and now anyone who is in Christ is also of Abram's seed . But this statement only opens up another area of on going discussion back and forth. Like wise I can also deal a counter agreement to other points your made. It would continue to go on and this thread would grow. Like I said earlier I am not interested in a long drawn out debate. Any sincere person who seeks God's will, will find the Truth and then be free. God's word says, you shall know the Truth and it will set you free. I am free. Therefore I sit back in this journey of life and watch Daniel and Revelation fulfill before my eyes. Will anyone else join me. Millions more do also but Jesus made it clear the majority of the world will not. They will be lost. The Mark of the Beast is the next great step this planet will take along with a dramatic down turn in climate events , signs in the sky. This will all support the intuition of the nation wide Sunday law with the end result that both you and I will choose who we will serve. You can stay on you present path and join the world majority to honour Sunday ( who do we honour then ) while still seeking greater understanding or you can join the minority who will honour the Sabbath that was created from day 7 of life as we know it on this planet. You may also say that I will not keep Sunday or Sabbath. However it will not be that simple. Every one will choose. Directly or indirectly they will choose. The wheat will be separated fm the chaff.

please pray for myself and my daughters and there families

Because God rejected Jeconiah, his name was shortened to Coniah as Je signified a connection to Jehovah God. (This came from a Bible commentary). God is a God of mercy and grace; but if we continually reject Him, He will eventually reject us.

Prayers for Israel

Hi Bridget,

There is no need to reply to this comment. As I would like you see your replies to brothers Michael and Earl's comments to your post.

I just wanted to address your comment on "no wonder the world is in mass confusion". I will just say that it is not, in my insight, just because people are not keeping "Saturday" Sabbath days. Which as Earl stated would be a lot of stuff we are no longer commanded to do anymore. To me the world falling into the state we're in, and I don't see it getting better, is mainly of how ungodly people have become. Which is a lot of stuff that I'm not going to try to fit in this post.

Which is just a very simple statement from me. Only God knows everything about everything. Keep your faith and trust in our Lord Jesus Christ. As you stated Malachi 3:6 in that God doesn't change. Like Hebrews 13:8.

God Bless.

Oh no...he has a breaking point. We all do. Job started with great faith and fear set in at the end to taketh.

I remember hearing an iteration of this story, but in spanish. Now I know that it comes from this book and chapter.

Satan proved wrong and Job still did not sin or curse God for what was taken.

Good moral to the story.

I also enjoy reading your full replies brother Michael,

It seems we see eye to eye. Like you stated that we are not commanded to keep a "Saturday", or certain day, Sabbath in the New Testament. As I stated Galatians 4:9-11 in my first reply to you in this thread. Which you just broke down with details to make it more understandable for those who may have not understood that verse.

Thank you very much for your time and posts as I very much enjoy conversing with other brothers & sisters in Christ. I look forward to seeing your posts here to help others in their walk with Christ.

God Bless and peace be with you brother.

Jackie,

Romans 11:25 says, "For I would not, brethren, that ye should be ignorant of this mystery, lest ye should be wise in your own conceits; that blindness in part is happened to Israel, until the fulness of the Gentiles be come in."

Frame that verse! Paul says here's the mystery that people don't understand even though it's right there in scripture that God made Israel blind in part, meaning it is temporary, not permanent until the fullness of the Gentiles be come in.

Now there are two phrases in the New Testament. One is the "Times of the Gentiles," and the other is the "Fulness of the Gentiles."

The definition of the fullness of the Gentiles is the completion of the body of Christ. And the time frame runs from Pentecost in Acts Chapter 2 until the rapture of the Church. That is when all the Gentiles who are going to be saved will be saved. The fullness of the Gentiles is when every Gentile that's going to be saved is going to be saved.

So Israel has been made blind until the fullness of the Gentiles be complete.

The "Times of the Gentiles" is given to us in Luke Chapter 21 Verse 24, and the times of the Gentiles run from the Babylonian captivity to the end of the tribulation.

What it means is that God's judgment, the time of Nebuchadnezzar, that the Gentiles shall trample down Jerusalem and shall be in charge of the Jews as far as persecution.

That runs all the way from Babylon, 586 B.C, until the end of the tribulation period because when Christ comes, that's when Israel will turn to the Lord.

Moab at that time was located on the east of the Dead Sea. Moab was the son of the illicit union of Lot & his eldest daughter ( Genesis 19:30-38). The Moabites, as with the others inhabiting the land of Canaan, were those that Israel would eventually have to war with, to conquer & capture their lands, as promised by God. So the Moabites were already known by Moses, & Moses with the children of Israel, sang this song ( Exodus 15) remembering their flight from the tyranny of Pharaoh & the future dread by the inhabitants in Canaan as the Lord their God went before them. So the reputation of the "mighty (strong, fierce) men of Moab" would have been known to Moses but they went on in their march towards the promised land, knowing the Lord was with them.

In reflection to v4/5,to answer/react to foolish folly or when not.a similar parallel is not answering a scam puter/phone call

once a person does they can and will become a part of it.

The d/f knows this and alot of beleiver's don't. It all comes from that source

Then theres a foolish folly that can be addressed for the sake of righteousness

by the guide lines in this book

God is with those that Love him n will show discernment on what to do

What is meant by the fullness of the gentiles?

Hello Glenn. Thank you again & for the points you shared, which I shall address:

1. True, Genesis 2:2,3 does state that God rested (or, ceased) from all the work which He had made, which implies Sabbath (rest) & that was then given as a commandment for Israel to obey & do likewise.

2. Isaiah chapter 66. You may be directing me to verses 23 & 24. These verses appear to be speaking about the Millennium period or at the creation of the new heavens & earth. In the OT economy, the description given here is 'from month to month and from week to week' (Moons & Sabbaths): that was their understanding. However, if it was a declaration that those who worship God at that future time will do so again on a Sabbath, (which gives a warrant to do so now), then do we also obey the moon cycles which are used to determine the 'feasts'. I'm unsure if any Sabbath-keepers/believers keep those feasts according to the moon's determination. Shouldn't they do so, if the Lord has said so? Are not the Sabbath & the Feasts equally important & incurred equal punishment if not adhered to?

3. Can't comment on that as I believe the 'remembrance' was for Israel to do, as they still do now (as those under the Law).

4. Daniel 7:24,25 is generally attributed to the coming Antichrist. I'm not sure whether his changing of "times & laws" applies to the Sabbath or not. So, the present condemnation of non-Sabbath-keepers (purportedly because of what Constantine ratified in 321 AD) is unjustified, since Daniel speaks of the future. Does that mean that the Antichrist will change 'Sunday worship' to another day, seeing that many Christians already do that now according to early Church practice? Or maybe to a day he chooses for all to worship him?

5. Sorry, can't see it yet: if you could point me in the right direction. If anything, I see a continual departure from the Truths of God's Word, rampant sin, & lukewarmness in the Church.

Blessings.

Hello Richard,

Thank you for your comments. I enjoyed reading your thoughts.

Indeed, I certainly agree with you that the Old Testament books are still important for Christians. Indeed, the Apostle Paul said that all scripture is beneficial. ( 2 Timothy 3:16) He also stated at Romans 15:4 that those things were written to teach us. Also, at 1 Corinthians 10:6 and 1 Corinthians 10:11, he says that those things were examples to us to teach us and warn us.

However, as far as the terms of a Testament or Covenant concerning the laws that we must obey, Christians should obey only the New Testament laws which are binding on a Christian. You cannot have 2 rental leases in force at the same time. The new rental lease makes the old one obsolete. The New Testament makes the Old Testament obsolete.

Hebrews 8:13 "In that he saith, A new covenant, he hath made the first old. Now that which decayeth and waxeth old is ready to vanish away."

Hebrews 7:12 "For the priesthood being changed, there is made of necessity a change also of the (Mosaic) law."

Luke 16:16 "The (Mosaic) law and the prophets were until John..."

Christians are not commanded in the New Testament to keep the Saturday sabbath and neither to keep a dominical sabbath (Sunday). There is no set day to keep. The only thing that is commanded to be kept is meeting together - that can be anytime during the week.

Hebrews 10:24, 25 "And let us consider one another to provoke unto love and to good works: Not forsaking the assembling of ourselves together, as the manner of some is; but exhorting one another: and so much the more, as ye see the day approaching.

The Apostle Paul counsels against keeping any "day":

Galatians 4:10 "Ye observe (sabbath) days, and (lunar) months, and (festivals) times, and (sabbatical) years."

Colossians 2:16 "Let no man therefore judge you in meat, or in drink, or in respect of an holyday, or of the new moon, or of the sabbath days:"

I welcome your further comments.

Good day, Richard.

Genesis 3:21

"Unto Adam also and to his wife did the LORD God make coats of skins, and clothed them."

In order to make clothing for Adam and Eve, God had to kill an animal, shed it's blood; to make clothes for them.

Because they sinned, their spiritual connection to God was severed. They were flesh and soul. The were prevented from eating of the TREE OF LIFE. If they had, they would've lived eternally in sin.

We see that the TREE OF LIFE was moved to heaven, in the Book of Revelation.

Mankind has lived throughout history, with the knowledge of good and evil; or sin, and separation from God.

Revelation 2:7

He that hath an ear, let him hear what the Spirit saith unto the churches; To him that overcometh will I give to eat of TREE OF LIFE, which is in the midst of the paradise of God.

Revelation 22:2

In the midst of the street of it, and on either side of the river, was there the TREE OF LIFE, which bare twelve manner of fruits, and yielded her fruit every month: and the leaves of the tree were for the healing of the nations.

Revelation 22:14

Blessed are they that do his commandments, that they may have right to the TREE OF LIFE, and may enter in through the gates into the city.

In Revelation, the tree of life represents the restoration of the life-giving presence of God. Restored access to the tree of life was made possible by "the second Adam" ( 1 Corinthians 15:44-49), Jesus Christ, who died on the cross for the sins of all humanity.

What are the laws of The Lord?

Hello Bridget,

Thank you for your comments.

You quoted Exodus 20:10 to say that we must observe the sabbath. However, you quoted from the Old Testament given to the ancient nation of Israel. Could you provide me a verse from the New Testament which commands the Church to keep the Sabbath? If not, why not? Why would the Apostles never instruct or remind the Christian Church to keep the sabbath if it was that important?

You also quoted Malachi 2:6 that God never changes. But, then why did God change the law of circumcision? The Old Testament said you must be circumcised - a commandment of God at Leviticus 12:3. But, in the New Testament, we are told that circumcision is not necessary. See Galatians 5:2. Also, why does Hebrews 7:12 say the the priesthood was changed? I thought you said that God never changes. In the Old Testament, the priesthood was Levitical but in the New Testament, the priesthood is according to the order of Mechizedek - another change of God. See Hebrews 7:11.

The Apostle Paul, at Galatians 4:10, scolds the Galatians for keeping the Old Testament rituals. The brackets are mine.

Galatians 4:10

"Ye observe (sabbath) days, and (lunar) months, and (festivals) times, and (sabbatical) years."

No wonder the Apostle Paul asks the question at:

Galatians 4:21 "Tell me, ye that desire to be under the (Mosaic Old Testament) law, do ye not hear the law?"

Colossians 2:16 "Let no man therefore judge you in meat, or in drink, or in respect of an holyday, or of the new moon, or of the sabbath days:"

I welcome your comments, Bridget.

Good day.

Bridget, may CHRIST IN US grace us with HIS wisdom and HIS understanding.

You quoted thatwe must keep Exodus 20:10

Do you keep:

Leviticus 25:4

Leviticus 23:11

Leviticus 23:15

Leviticus 23:16

Leviticus 23:24

Leviticus 23:32

Leviticus 23:39

Exodus 35:3

Leviticus 16:29-32

Numbers 28:10

Exodus 31:14

Numbers 28:9

These are ALL SABBATHS

Brother Dan, may CHRIST IN US grace us with HIS wisdom and HIS understanding.

The old heaven and the old earth are symbols of the Old Covenant. The new heavens and new earth are symbols of the NEW COVENANT. The sea is also symbolic of:

Revelation 17:15 .... The waters (seas) which thou sawest, where the whore sitteth, are peoples, and multitudes, and nations, and tongues.

Revelation 13:1 And I stood upon the sand of the sea (remember Abraham was told the people would be as the sand of the sea), and I saw a beast rise out of the sea (multitude of peoples).....

WE all start our lives under the power of the prince of the air (Satan; serpent of the sea).

Isaiah 27:1 ....even leviathan that crooked serpent; and he shall slay the dragon that is in the sea.

Revelation 21:1 ...and there was no more sea (Satan was defeated at Christ resurrection ,the NEW Covenant.

Revelation 21:3 ...Behold, the tabernacle of God is with men....

1 Corinthians 3:16 Know ye not that ye are the temple of God, and the SPIRIT OF GOD DWELLETH IN YOU?

1 Corinthians 15:55 O Grave where is thy victory? Accomplished at the NEW COVENANT.

Revelation 1:3 .....for the time is at hand....Fulfilled at Christ death and resurrection.

Hebrews 2:8 Thou hast put all things in subjection under his feet..... But now we see not YET all things put under him.

We are in the DAY OF THE LORD. One day; that hasn't been completed YET.

To establish the New Covenant that had better promises.

To take authority away from Satan that he gained by the fall, of Adam and Eve.

Genesis 3:15. Prophesy

And I will put enmity between thee (Satan) and the woman, and between thy seed and her seed; it (Jesus) shall bruise thy head, and thou shalt bruise his heel.

Satan is brain damaged. If he had believed that prophesy, he would NOT have stirred up the Chief Priests and Pharisees, to have Jesus crucified on the Cross. He was simply enjoying the suffering of the Son of God. He knew Jesus was the Son, when He tempted Jesus (Jesus fasted 40 days and nights in the desert).

He truly believed that when Jesus died and was put into the tomb, that he had seen the last of Jesus: the dead Son of God. That is the part of the Prophesy where God says Satan would bruise Jesus's heel.

Satan didn't know Jesus would be Resurrected. If he did, he wouldn't have let It happen.

Jesus ratified THE NEW COVENANT, with His own sinless, holy BLOOD. Inside the Temple, when Jesus died, THE VEIL was torn down the middle: Top to Bottom. No human could've done that because the veil was massive in size. That was Jesus saying, THE OLD COVENANT is FINISHED. COMPLETED.

The NEW COVENANT is now IN FORCE

Imagine Satan realizing what had happened. He had been stripped of all his power and AUTHORITY. He no longer had permission to trouble mankind; cause deaths. Hold people's souls in prison. First thing Jesus did was go down to hell and set all the prisoners FREE.

When we accept Jesus to be our own Personal, LORD and SAVIOR: we pass from the sentence of death, into ETERNAL LIFE. We worship Jesus for accomplishing that on our behalf. We can never be good enough to EARN it.

That's why we sing, NOTHING BUT THE BLOOD OF JESUS, in church, at home, in the car, in front of our kids, everywhere!

If you haven't done it yet, give your life to Jesus: and He will give His Life to you! Forever.

Mishael

Sometimes we get smart and miss the revalation

Just need a prayer for life.

Places where Old Testament teaching and Jesus teaching appear to be opposite. Eye for an eye..love your enemy etc.

Scripture connecting Israel and the Gentiles.

Romans 11:16 Context

13For I speak to you Gentiles, inasmuch as I am the apostle of the Gentiles, I magnify mine office: 14If by any means I may provoke to emulation them which are my flesh, and might save some of them. 15For if the casting away of them be the reconciling of the world, what shall the receiving of them be, but life from the dead? 16For if the firstfruit be holy, the lump is also holy: and if the root be holy, so are the branches. 17And if some of the branches be broken off, and thou, being a wild olive tree, wert graffed in among them, and with them partakest of the root and fatness of the olive tree; 18Boast not against the branches.

Israelites and Gentiles are subject to the the same 10 commandments.

God Bless