All Discussion PAGE 2248

If Jesus was crucified on Friday and to be in the grave 3 nites and 3 days, why do we celebrate Easter onSunday?

Richard in Christ thanks, maybe less or better wording would have been better but Jesus had to have the ability to sin and be judged by the law and found perfect and spotless, He overcame. Therefore, He had the authority and the ability to fill the terms of the contract and do away with the old and confirm the new. Thanks for the advice when discussions complete a circle, you go no further forward and cause harm. Silence and prayer open doors once given the key.

God bless, Ron

One more quote from the Bible doctrine book in the same vein:

"One should not endeavor to transpose Old Testament details into the New in a way that undermines or infringes on the tenor of the gospel.

Then again, the liberty of the New Testament should not be considered to minimize the holiness of God as set forth in the Old. Jesus did not destroy the validity of the Old Testament; He fulfilled it ( Matthew 5:17). There must be a balanced spiritual understanding of the relationship of the two testaments."

That the four corners of our hearts have equal amounts of the breath of God.

Chris, thanks for your reply. I agree there is no good in us, maybe I pushed the issue on the flesh. The Bible shows us the birth of Jesus and a few years after and then a glimpse at around 12 years old. Next, He comes as the Messiah around 30 years old. Jesus lived his life without any sin. Most of the New Testament covers Jesus as the Messiah/ Christ. The main thing I was saying regardless of the flesh the Son of God was in, He had to have the ability to sin and be judged by the law and found spotless, so when Jesus was crucified Jesus faced the same first death as we will, but death had no hold on Him. Therefore, Jesus fulfilled the law.

Acts 2:24 Whom God hath raised up, having loosed the pains of death: because it was not possible that he should be holden of it.

Romans.8:11 But if the Spirit of him that raised up Jesus from the dead dwell in you, he that raised up Christ from the dead shall also quicken your mortal bodies by his Spirit that dwelleth in you.

God bless, Ron

In verse 19 we see that David was not presumptuous with Jehovah God. He sought direction from him and we want to do the same in our lives.

Another day another meditation: Thinking of the Holy Bible and the law and the Holy Ghost, I came across this quote that a few selected brethren in the Church of God were led to write within a book on Bible doctrines.

"Tenor is the harmony of the whole, the intent and purpose of something written or spoken. The Hebrew word from which tenor is translated gives a hint of action: "to puff: scatter into corners" (Strong's concordance). In other words, even under Moses's Law, it took the breath of God, or tenor, to scatter the Lord's dictates into the corners of the hearts of men.

It was this tenor that finally brought Saul (the unconverted Paul) to see his heart's need and pointed him to Christ

( Romans 7). Saul was "blameless" ( Philippians 3:6) concerning the statute law. But his conscience became sin-ridden when the breath of God scattered the real intent of the law into the corners of his heart. Such is the power of the law under the Holy Spirit's unction."

Hi Ron ,hope you dont mind me butting my head in ! Christ represents the two Israels ,Israel in the flesh ,the Jews ,the natural branches and he had to ,he is of the Jews ,salvation is of the Jews ,he is Marys biological Son in every sense ,he also represents us ,sprirtual Israel ,Christians who are born again of the Holy Spirit ! Not quite as literally as Jesus was ,we have biological fathers but we are baptized into his death and resurected when we are submerged in the waters of baptism and we are cleansed by these waters and born again of the Holy Spirit and grafted in . Pure perfection .

Thanks Earl!.

That Made me think of "The Restitution of all things""

Acts 3:18-21.

But those things, which God before had shewed by the mouth of all his prophets, that Christ should suffer, he hath so fulfilled.

Repent ye therefore, and be converted, that your sins may be blotted out, when the times of refreshing shall come from the presence of the Lord;

And he shall send Jesus Christ, which before was preached unto you:

Whom the heaven must receive until the times of RESTITUTION OF ALL THINGS, which God hath spoken by the mouth of all his holy prophets since the world began.

It's Interesting I think the Kinsman Redeemer is also the revenger of blood also.

But as a Interesting side note,

There's three places sought out to find a ""Man"" that was Worthy to Redeem what some Scholars call the title deed of the Earth, "Seal Book written on both sides"

( Here we are in Revelation ch 5 and the tribulation have not even started and we see ""Man"" Sought out IN HEAVEN!! Not only that suggest we'll go to Heaven but also it seems like the RAPTURE has already taken place!!!)

Revelation 5:3. AND NO MAN IN HEAVEN, NOR IN EARTH, neither under the earth, was able to open the book, neither to look thereon.

I'm confused. Why do you attribute Ecclesiastes 25 to the King James Version of the Bible? The KJV ends at Chapter 12. I have not been able to find any printing of the KJV that contains chapters of Ecclesiastes beyond twelve. Where have these additional chapters come from? (The same is true, by the way, of Psalm 23. Some internet sites include verses 7 through ten.) Please help me understand.

Goodmorning Sacha,

You're welcome and Thank you, ,have a blessed Day.

Thankyou Jesse ,i appreciate that ,its very helpfull ,i have a concordance ,i guess i need to use it more ! Thanks again .

please keep Kristie in your prayers

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I tend to see our human flesh as totally corrupt, save for the redemptive work of our Saviour & renewed spirits to live above that corruption. I just can't see Jesus having that flesh, which he would have, if Mary contributed to his conception. But if he did have that flesh (even though never sinning), the corrupt sin nature in Him (from Mary) would preclude Him from being an acceptable Sacrifice - He could no longer be called the "Last Adam" sent from God. Every blessing Ron.

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Thank you for your reply, Ron - much appreciated. If I could just address a couple of your points:

a. "If Jesus did not have the sinful flesh that came from the first Adam and Jesus was incapable of sin what did He fulfill?" You clearly referred to Matthew 5:17. Using the Greek words for 'abolish & fulfil', their meanings are: abolish = to destroy, abrogate, or to deny Divine Authority. And 'fulfil' = to complete, fill up what was predicted, accomplish what was intended by it.

When we read it as given, then we see that the Lord, in His 'sinless' condition, could indeed fulfil the Law, because His coming was not to prove His ability to be obedient to the Law but was for the purpose to bring the Law to its planned & proper completion. And this He did as the One Who not only was the Word of God (as the Word/Law/Prophecies) given to Israel, but also Who came now in human form (that Word made Flesh) to bring the Law to finality by His death, resurrection & bringing in of a better Covenant ( Hebrews 8:6,7).

b. Romans 8:3. "in the likeness of sinful flesh". Many look at this phrase as supporting the belief that Jesus had sinful flesh as we have. If that were so, then he would have the sin nature in Him as 'sinful flesh' speaks of that, in one respect. In the other respect, it could also mean that Jesus came in human flesh, resembling (likeness of) sinful flesh that he partook of flesh, or the nature of man, but without any of its sinful propensities or desires. Why would that be? Because the sin nature, which is common to man, was not found in Him. Satan's great desire was to replicate what he did to the first Adam - but the last Adam withstood him disallowing sin to enter thereby imputing the sin nature.

Hello brother Ron,

As I don't want to get in between you and Adams discussion. I just wanted to note one thing that I have read of in the Scriptures. Satan can tempt anyone, even God, as shown in the beginning of the book of Job. Where the sons of God(Holy angels) came to present themselves before the Lord and satan was there. Of coarse satan thinks he can get people to turn against God. Though God is always ahead of the devil. As Jesus Christ was(on earth) and is always also.

He actually temps Him twice. Once in Job 1:6-12. Then again pushing further in Job 2:1-6. He wanted to get Job to curse God. Though he fails as usual.

Maybe a way to subdue one thing you and Adam are conversing about. With "sin nature" in Jesus Christ. I believe He was part man(from Mary) and part God(from our Father in Heaven). So my answer to if He had a sin nature or not would be "yes and no". As I don't think many would really take that as an answer to that question though that is how I perceive it. Jesus Christ was like no other being that ever walked this earth.

Have a peaceful conversation my brothers in Christ.

God Bless.

Sacha,

I am not trying to intrude in your conversation, but reading your post, I felt inclined to share something with you about your statement "I can't get my head around why Jesus would tell Mary not to touch him."

John Chapter 20 tells us that this was right after Jesus rose from the tomb. When Mary first saw Jesus, she thought He was the gardener. But after hearing His voice, she realized it was Jesus and she grabbed onto him. And Jesus said unto her, "Touch me not."

Now it is very interesting what the text says. This is one of those instances where the English text doesn't help us out much. We read Jesus saying don't touch me, and it's like what's that all about? First of all, the word "touch" is the word HAPTO, and it means to fasten. It doesn't mean to touch as in "Don't touch me, stay away from me!" It means don't fasten yourself to me. It is a Present Imperative in the Greek text which indicates that she is already doing it. She is holding on tight and not going to let go. Jesus is not saying don't touch me. He's saying stop clinging to me.

As a matter of fact, in Matthew 28:9, Matthew tells us that she had a death grip on His ankles. She was not going to let Him out of her sight again! So He wasn't telling her "Don't touch me." He was saying let go, don't cling to me, stop clinging to me.

And there was a reason for it, He says in John 20:17, for I am not yet ascended to my Father: In other words, He is saying, and you see, here is where the changeover comes. Here's where the ministry comes in.

He has now revealed Himself as the resurrected one to Mary, and she's got this grip on Him like I'm never going to let you out of my sight again, and He is telling her, "You have to let go because I have not yet gone to the Father."

This is not going to be a physical relationship where you can see me and hear me. It's going to be by faith. So it is interesting!

I hope this might give you a better understanding of why Jesus made that statement.

who is simon the centurian and where did he come from.

It is a prayer request. My mother passed away and I have a younger sister and my father is bedridden. We have a lot of family problems. We have lost our faith and are in a backslidden state. God should give us the grace to sit in His presence more and more, and may God make us strong in faith, make us a testimony glorifying the name of the Lord. May the Lord deliver us from all our troubles and give us the grace to overcome the temptations. Let the name of the Lord be glorified in our lives.

How very true, Bendito. As I re-read the earlier verses, the thought came to me: would a non-believer have read that verse in the same manner & with the same sensation as a believer does? Very likely, No. It would just be an historical account of the risen Jesus & verse 16 would have been glossed over.

To us who have experienced the joy of salvation, we instantly enter into the same state as Mary was in: of utter joy in seeing her beloved again, risen from the grave, death having no hold on Him. And we see & experience the risen Christ each day, every moment of the day, in all His Glory & Beauty. All praise be to Him for going to the cross for us & to the Eternal loving Father Who sent Him for our sakes.

S Spencer, great insight on the kinsman redeemer; also foreshadowed in the year of jubilee. May the Spirit continue gracing us with HIS light. GBU

Richard, may the Spirit grace us with HIS wisdom and His understanding.

When Christ returns with his saints to rule and judge this world then we will see:

Isaiah 26:9 With my soul I have desired in the night; yea, with my spirit within me will I speak early: for when thy JUDGEMENTS are in the earth, the inhabitants of the world WILL LEARN RIGHTEOUSNESS.

Revelation 17:16-17 And the ten horns (overcomers, judges) which thou saw on the beast (man who does not have the name of their Father written in their forehead) shall hate the whore (those unfaithful to Christ their husband) and shall make her desolate and naked (judgement), and shall eat her flesh (judgement), and shall burn her with fire (judgement).

(vs 17) For God has put in their hearts to fulfil his will (turn the other cheek, love your enemies), and to AGREE (with him), and give THEIR KINGDOM unto the beast, until the words of God be fulfilled.

Revelations 15:4 ..... for ALL NATIONS shall come and worship before thee; for thy JUDGEMENTS are made manifest.

Psalms 67:7 God shall bless us; and all the ends of the earth shall fear him.

Isaiah 52:10 The LORD hath made bare his holy arm in the eyes of all the nations; and all the ends of the earth shall see the salvation of the God.

Thank you Ron, God Bless our willingness to understand the depths of Christ and his work at Calvary more. As I drove home from work, I wondered of we Christians practiced more self denial as Jesus did as the Son of God, how much clearer our witness would be when handling the Word of God. I need help in this area and I am sure it is part of why for now I am here posting with the Lambs of Christ.

I have mis-spelled my own name on some posts. I appreciate the Hebrews verse you wrote, it speaks to me and for me.

:)

Carleton

Thanks, Carleton sorry I misspelled your name. Then we see from Daniel 9:24 The sixth thing determined, Jesus to anoint the most Holy.

Hebrews 9:11-12 But Christ being come an high priest of good things to come, by a greater and more perfect tabernacle, not made with hands, that is to say, not of this building; 12 Neither by the blood of goats and calves, but by his own blood he entered in once into the holy place, having obtained eternal redemption for us.

Thanks, Carleton your posts are encouraging and uplifting.

God bless, Ron

the dragon persecuted the women and thats is not the literal church of today that church is israel the african american trans atlantic slave trade and spanish inqusition is the persecution of the women its time to come to the truth

Hello Britany, Blessing to you for sharing your tenderness and journey to become wise in the word of God. I too am not long in and must say I cannot put down the word of God it is so full-filling. I pray that you find your way to thirst for more. I presume you are young by your name and this is heart warming for me since I wish for young people in my life to see their way to the word of God as you have. I have found this way of following the way of Jesus Christ deepening in faith every moment of every day.

Peace and Love. I hold you in love in my prayers.

Hi Ron, thanks for clarifying. The reason I responded is it sounded like you were trying to claim Jesus isn't God with the following phrase: "God cannot die, Jesus willfully did for us"

It sounded like you were trying to draw a contrast between God and Jesus. This is why I pointed out the false equivalency, that Jesus only died temporarily in the flesh, not spirit. So, if someone attempted to claim that... 'God cannot die, but Jesus did therefore He isn't God', I clearly pointed out that would be a false assumption and false equivalency fallacy.

"I do not remember saying anything about soul/spirit or an afterlife that was not in this discussion." It was indirectly in your statement.

Lately there have been a loud minority intentionally pushing an anti-Jesus agenda by attacking His divinity, despite John 1:1 and so many others, so I am exposing that as a false teaching. I don't think God is behind any movement attempting to discredit Jesus, but I know who else might be. God bless.

Charles,

I'm not sure I would say that the King James is the only correct Bible. There are some who are "King James" only and won't even get into a biblical conversation with anyone who doesn't use the KJV. I've read through this thread and there are some great responses. Chris has shared so much good information.

Personally, for me, the KJV is my choice. I do trust some of the other versions, but not all of them. I still like to do side by side comparisons between various bibles. We all have to decide for ourselves which version we want, and what it is we are looking for when we choose, whether it be easy to read, accurate, or whatever the case might be.

We have to keep in mind that whatever version we choose, they are all translations. Some might say that the KJV is the most accurate translation, but how do we know that unless we know the Greek?

Something that is interesting to note is that the King James was written without copyright. I think every other translation has copyright. This tells me that if I chose to write a bible, I would have to change the wording from the other copyrighted versions.

As far as I know, there are no two translations that are word for word. The problem we run into is once the wording starts to change because it has to, it can totally change the true meaning of the text. That's something we have to be careful about.

As for the Greek, I have learned to read Greek the same way I would read English. I do read from the Textus Receptus at times. Greek is such an exact language, and I think that's why the Lord chose that language for the New Testament because it is full of doctrine and teaching. God chose an exact language for that. English is a very general language and I think it's why we have so much division in the body of Christ today because we can't agree on what our English text is saying.

Thank you so much for your faithfulness to the Lord in your years in the ministry. May the Lord continue to bless you!

Hi S Spenser ,thanks for your reply ,there are plenty of things that we can debate about that i dont think its essential for our salvation that we understand perfectly ,for example ,i cant get my head around why Jesus would tell mary not to touch him as he had not yet ascended but not too long after tell thomas to put his hand in his wounds ,i do think that there are some things that we all need to be clear on ,im not going to go on and on ,i think ive said enough and made myself clear ,i hope now to focus on the things that bind us together in the love of the Eternal Truth ,its hard for me to stay silent when its something im convinced of ,im sure we have all felt that way some time ,may we all grow in Gods grace and understanding of His Word .Thanks for listening and taking time to answer ,i appreciate that .

Richard, Chris - very well said

Hello Ron, Thank you for your time and discussion. My meditation on the subject at hand: Isaiah 53:2 perhaps because of the calendar comes to mind: "...he hath no form nor comeliness; and when we shall see him, there is no beauty that we should desire him"

The Lord Jesus as a babe and his entire conversation from Bethlehem to Calvary he denied himself of his glory and found himself in the likeness of sinful man. No one knew him. He was outwardly tempted by Satan but chose to believe his Father in Heaven and deny the world of it's offers and carry His flesh to the cross in all purity. It was at the cross where he took the sins of this earth from Adam until time is no more upon his Holy flesh and it became sin unto Him. He had to die in the flesh because of the law, God's law. His spirit still knew no sin but it knew what it is like for sinful man to have the Father look away. Yet Jesus was also the mercy seat over the law which His own blood and water sprinkled clean thereby opening the way for sinful man in the flesh to come unto Him by Faith and repentance of sin.

Carleton