All Discussion PAGE 261

Dear GiGi,

Thank you for all you are doing for me!

Throughout the day I felt the changes stayed, for which I am very appreciative for.

May God bless you.

Concluding thoughts on national sovereignty vs one world order

In the end; he who lives by the sword dies by the sword. ( Matt. 26:52; also see Revelation 13:10). As Christians we are to remain as salt and light to resist the decay that the current world system under Satanic influence is headed toward. Similarly; we should not cede to others things that are inalienable rights that our forefathers fought so hard for and is enacted in our Constitution and other important legal documents as to how a Republic is to be run. We shouldn't; however make that our priority; as His Kingdom is not of this world ( John 18:36). We see ways; for instance with certain bitcoin currencies how we can be in an internationally accepted means of exchange (for now) which is an alternative to the electronic cash and other efforts governments and private banks are attempting to control the narrative and our lives. It is hard to say if we do have a sort of one world government how far it will progress before the Tribulation; peace is taken from the earth at the 2nd Seal; that leaves us to wonder if it is just a type of peace that is in effect since just the first seal or if it has lasted a while.

One world religion again is something that is developing; we are responsible to hold onto the Philadelphian type church and patiently endure as Revelation 3:10 states until the Lord comes back to receive our reward even with little strength. We must avoid any false revival and not expect mass conversions at a time when many are said to fall away if we are indeed in the last days ( 1 Timothy 4:1 and also see Matthew 24:10). If we live in a world system where we have to pay taxes then of course we need wisdom. The plans are clear from the "powers that be" (without having to name the source) that in a few short years we are supposed to be content losing property and any private ownership. So be it; if the Gospel is preached we can let go these temporal things for His Name's sake.

Ronald.

Part 7.

2 Peter 1:10.

Let's take this from verses 3-4.

(According as his divine power hath given unto us all things that pertain unto life and godliness,) through the knowledge of him that hath called us to glory and virtue:

(Whereby are given unto us exceeding great and precious promises: that by these ye might be partakers of the divine nature, having escaped the corruption that is in the world through lust.)

Paul lists what's added in 2 Peter 1:5-7. "And beside this, giving all diligence, add to your faith virtue, and to virtue knowledge.

And to knowledge temperance; and to temperance patience; and to patience godliness.

And to godliness brotherly kindness; and to brotherly kindness charity.

Verse 8!

"FOR IF THESE THINGS BE IN YOU", and abound, they make you that ye shall neither be barren nor unfruitful in the knowledge of our Lord Jesus Christ.

The contrary to "these things being in you" is seen in is verse 9.

BUT HE THAT LACKETH THESE THINGS IS BLIND, and cannot see afar off, and hath forgotten that he was purged from his old sins.

In verse 10 Paul is telling us to "give diligence to make your calling and election sure: for if ye do these things, ye shall never fall:

He is saying if according to Christ divine power hath he given unto us all things that pertain unto life and godliness, and whereby we are given exceeding great and precious promises and by these ye might be partakers of the divine nature, having escaped the corruption that is in the world through lust. " Make your calling and election sure: for "IF YOU ARE DOING THESE THINGS", ye shall never fall.

Hebrews 6:13-16.

When God performed this covenant with Abraham, he put Abraham to sleep. IT WAS UNCONDITIONAL!

Genesis 15:1-12.

Matthew 24:13.

This is to take place during the great tribulation period.

However, I'm not going to get into that on this thread.

This is how I interpret those verses, perhaps some can help and improve on this.

God bless you brother.

Nations vs One World Government (continued)

One world government needs to be discussed at present. There are alliances as I said before that could be considered part of the divided Roman empire of the last days such as expressed in Daniel 2:40-41. This kingdom will have the strength of iron but be divided and not cling as clay and historically; of course we see Rome as being the western capital; and Constantinople being the eastern capital. Part of this involves the Papal authority and Eastern; Greek and or Russian Orthodox church in charge of the other "leg" so to speak if that is interpreted correctly. This final beast is going to take over the whole world; that is pretty clear from verses in Daniel and Revelation 13. It would seem pitting nations against one another would allow the final 10 nations to rule one hour with Antichrist (see the 3 subdued in Daniel 7:24). This is the final religious; and economic world government under the "Mystery Babylon" rule when the woman rides the Beast ( Rev. 17:13); then later in the second half of the Tribulation ANtichrist destroys the system and its ruling city with fire ( Rev. 17:16). The religious center starting this year in Abu Dhabi and other such concepts has allowed all monotheistic faiths to be at one facility. It seems clear through cooperative efforts today with the Saudi's and even some effort by Turkey in the background that the Temple will be rebuilt with some international agreement on control of the Temple Mount.

For now; we must be aware what is going on but continue to be the salt and light of the world; warning about the conflagration to come. The net that all nations will be led into the seive of destruction is coming. ( Isaiah 30:28). It is a trap coming for the whole world ( Luke 21:24) and we need to remain focused and not be taken aback at His sudden return to take His church home; praying always to be worthy to escape all the things to come and stand before the Son of Man ( Luke 21:36).

Major things to think about prior to His return

National soverignty vs one world government

In my last post; I explained briefly how there is a divide between Eastern and Western nations and their alliances. As to an opinion on the matter; it is easy to be myopic and insist that our country can do no wrong or the opposite as seems politically expedient today; we excoriate all those who until recent years were heralded as honorable forefathers of our nation. This same mindset can skew the big picture; those of the old school think of Russia today as communist when it is in reality a nationalist mindset and has supported the church by and large. In all due respect it is heavily skewed toward the Eastern or Russian Orthodox; and very recently has started showing blowback and persecution to those in the church that do not support the political agenda.

Those we consider "enemies" used to be friends; case in point Russia who was our ally during World War Two (albeit we basically gave them much of Eastern Europe at the end of the war when allowing them to be the first to invade German territory). Japan has gone from being part of the "Axis of Evil" to our best ally in the last 50 years or so. Afghanistan was our ally as well; and we even supported Bin Laden (I believe he was on Newsweek as man of the year or something to that affect; much like Hitler was in the 1930's. Many of us are naive as to history; so of course it repeats itself (or as Ecclesiastes 1:9 says there is nothing new under the sun). Of course there are allies (take India for example) where persecution of Christians is some of the worst in the world; in this case by Hindus; not the Muslims who also are persecuting believers with our allies such as Saudi Arabia; Turkey and many other nations.

In these issues; we need to be careful to honor covenant agreements in the past with sovereign nations and their boundaries. The desire to eliminate ancient boundaries is dangerous ( Prov. 22:28)

Ronald.

Part 6.

This section I will attempt to address those scriptures you presented suggesting one can lose his Salvation.

Hebrews 3:12-13.

Verse 12) Take heed, brethren, lest there be in any of you an evil heart of unbelief, in departing from the living God.

Well, if there is an evil heart of unbelief, and deceitfulness of sin. THEN YOU ARE NOT SAVED!

1 John 1:7.

Ronald, I don't grasp you here. This is not a verse saying you can lose Salvation.

"But if we walk in the light, as he is in the light, if we are in the light we are saved. If we are not in the light, we are not saved.

2 Peter 2:20.

Look at 2 Peter 2:22. These are dogs, NOT SONS! This is the same group described in the previous verses!

Take it from 2 Peter 2:9-20 to get the context.

Galatians 6:9.

Christians will go before the judgement seat of Christ to give an account for the things done in the flesh.

We are to keep sowing and in due season we will reap. this is the fruit of their labor.

He that soweth to the Spirit, sows to the spirit by the power of the Holyspirit.

Paul has just asked the Galatian Christians to be convinced, once again, that trusting their flesh in this life will only lead to corruption. Reliance on our own power only leads to death. That is true whether we trust human effort to save us by following the rituals and sacraments of the law, or by following our own selfish, sinful desires.

Salvation comes only by "planting" the Spirit. Through faith in Christ for the forgiveness of our sin.

God gives to us His own Spirit. Only that Spirit will deliver eternal life in the end.

Colossians 1:23.

Verses 21-22 states we have been reconciled In the body of his flesh through death, to present you holy and unblameable and unreproveable in his sight:

Jude 1:24. says "Now unto him that is able to keep you from falling, and to present you faultless before the presence of his glory with exceeding joy,

So, those who is moved away from the faith was never saved.

See Part 7.

Hi Jema,

Thank you, I know we agree on many things and sometimes in the minority. I don't know if I would say I explain it better. I feel many times I come up short.

God bless,

RLW

Some things to consider as we wait for the Lord's arrival.

Major issues: National sovereignty vs one world government. The inexorable pull towards one world government is still being largely played out by Western nations; with the Eastern block having their own economic (BRICS) and military alliances. This issue involves complex alliances and questionable international boundaries hence determining right and wrong may not always be as easy as our media would like us to think in their mantras.

Left vs. Right: We have what is left of Christianity today being demolished by left wing ideology; but this doesn't eliminate the threat from right wing extremists. We have the churches in almost all nations today being monitored by totalitarian regimes; or harassed by increasingly intolerant moves toward acceptance of deviant lifestyles in western nations in particular. The resulting chaos makes it hard to differentiate between the two; with a chameleon affect developing frequently with riots and demonstrations which has influences from both sides so it is hard to find out who is to blame in some cases.

Acceptance of a lawless society. In the name of human freedom and to allow for "sensitivities" our society and much of Europe has succumbed to a mob rule; where death penalties and any serious punishment for crimes has become more the exception than the rule. Everyone is seen as a "victim" and thus a responsible work ethic and stable family unit has been steadily broken down in recent years; especially since the pandemic. We have grown to be a spoiled society who demands instant gratification and dumbed down to a social life dominated by electronic communication in a virtual world; which has blurred the difference between reality and fantasy.

I will attempt to break down each of these topics in detail in future posts. We all need to be wise as serpents and innocent as doves ( Matt. 10:16) and trust He is still in control even as things spin toward chaos.

Hello Ronald

I didn't take your answer as a dedate. I was actually glad that somebody noticed and answered my posts. I did a general statement.

About "Hades". Luke the evangelist and Paul the apostle used that term with full knowledge of what the greeks meant with that and what they thought of it, but still used it. Why, as long as they would definitely know that they would mislead people to a false impression? Or unless they used that term because it resembled to what they believed that Sheol represented.

About Jesus' Kingdom, I agree with you that He will set a literal kingdom on earth during the millenium, but not together with the nation Israel that some claim. The Rev says together with those slained during that last 7 year period and if we take into account the parable of the talents given to the bondservants by their Lord, then all saved people all over the time will rule together with Him and probably the saints of the OT are also included. This is how I understand it brother.

We have many beliefs in common , you are much better at explaining than I am :) . Thank you .

Hey S Spencer,

I understand, years ago I traveled in my work, and it takes a lot to be away from home. I will go over what you have sent, wow you have put in some time, and I know that is special. It will take me a few days I am not a young man anymore.

Have a good and safe week.

God bless,

RLW

Hi Giannis,

My reply was not to debate it was just my understanding, it is just good to see posts like yours that inspire study for truth. I agree that the belief in an afterlife was worldwide but when the Church began the largest influence was Greek. At the time Jesus first came many of the people in Judea, spoke and read Greek. They had the Septuagint and the Greek meaning of some words like Sheol with its main meaning to be the grave became Hades a place of bodiless souls, and the meaning of death that was sleep, became a separation of the soul from the body.

Your question on the kingdom; we may differ on this, my understanding does not include a rapture as taught, the Church being taken to heaven and a 7-year tribulation. Jesus's second coming is a onetime event, not two. When Jesus returns, the first resurrection of the chosen, and faithful. He will set up the kingdom with those chosen and faithful and will reign over this earth from Jerusalem for 1000 years.

When that time is up the last battle with Satan and his army and then the final judgement and all will be made new.

Thank you again, discussion is good if we inspire to study.

God bless,

RLW

Hello Oseas

I haven't forgoten you. I will answer to your post tomorrow. Have a blessed day (or night, depending on where you live).

Blessings.

Romans 16:7

"Salute Andronicus and Junia, my kinsmen (relatives), and my fellowprisoners, who are of note among the apostles, who also were in Christ before me."

So Paul had relatives who were in Christ before him. I believe that they were certainly praying for him. I believe that God answered their prayers and saved Paul.

In Galatians 1:15-16 Paul writes, "15 But when it pleased God, who separated me(Paul) from my mother's womb, and called me by his grace, 16 To reveal his Son in me, that I might preach him among the heathen..."

Here Paul claims that God had chosen him from his mother's womb to send him to preach about Christ.

SO which one is true? Was Paul saved because some people were praying for him OR because that was God's plan before Paul was born?

The answer is, both.

Lets examine it. It was Jesus who appeared to Paul on his way to Damascus. Later God called him to go and preach to the gentiles together with Barnabas, and led them to all the places He intented them to go ( Acts 13:2-4).

So one expects that God gave them His grace to complete their ministry, doesn't he?

But lets read Ephessians 6:19, "And (pray) for me, that utterance may be given unto me, that I may open my mouth boldly, to make known the mystery of the gospel," Somewhere else Paul asks for prayers for him to be freed from his enemies.

So the question is. Why is Paul asking his fellow christians to pray for him to be given words of preaching? Wasn't God who sent him to preach? Wasn't God going to give him words to do what He asked him for?

Yes it was God who sent him BUT God is expecting us to cooperate with Him. God will not do anything unless we cooperate with Him. He asks for our cooperation, whatever that is, prayers, testimonies, preachings, helping others, ...

Lets not expect for God to do all things on His own while we are laying lazely on our couches. HE WILL NOT. He demands our cooperation, the offering of ourselves for His purposes. And prayers are very significant. So... lets go.

Hello Ronald

The reason I posted those posts is that I wanted to share some things I notice when reading the Bible, and bring some considerations to fellow christians about some topics. I don't really like getting into debates. Firstly they tire me, that is why I usually post 1- 2 answers and then stop. Secondly I tend to use a sharp language sometimes and people get offended, not good from my side, is it?

About the "living sacrifice", the way I understand it is that a sacrifice simply means an offering to God here. A living sacrifice is our life which we offer to God. If we wish that God accepts/likes our life as an offering, this has to be "holy", otherwise God will not accept it. "Holy" includes repentance, includes asking for forgiveness, includes a strive to live righteously.

About immortal souls. The belief that a soul is immortal was not introduced by ancient Greeks. Thousands of years before them, the Egyptians, Sumerians, Assyrians etc believed in an afterlife. Even in the primitive age, in the stone age, people were believing in afterlife. Burials of stone age people that have been found contain cooking pottery and clothes and precious stones and metals for them to use as money in the afterlife. That was always the belief of mankind no matter nation or age, which means that the memory of the afterlife was left to all people since the beginning, otherwise it can not be explained how people dispersed all over the world from America to China in an age that there was no transportation and contacts between tribes and nations, they were all believing the same thing, the afterlife.

About the Kingdom of Jesus, if we mean a kingdom where Jesus together with Israel will rule over all the earth, my question is "when is that going to happen?". It will not happen before rapture, neither after when the antichrist will rule, neither in the millenium when all those slained during those 7 years will rule. So When?

Thanks for your answer brother, much appreciated. Blessings

Ronald.

Part 5.

You mentioned 1 Corinthians 9:27.

CASTAWAY.

The context in this verse is Paul concerned about failing to obtain his goal of winning others, He's talking about preaching, Not sinning and somehow losing Salvation! Paul's goal is to win a prize!

He's using the analogy of getting off course and being disqualified.

This clears itself up it we take this passage of scripture from verse 22.

"To the weak became I as weak, that I might gain the weak: I am made all things to all men, that I might by all means save some.

And this I do for the gospel's sake, THAT I MIGHT BE PARTAKERS THEREOF WITH YOU.

Know ye not that they which run in a race run all, but one receiveth the prize? So run, that ye may obtain.

And every man that striveth for the mastery is temperate in all things. Now they do it to obtain a corruptible crown; but we an incorruptible.

I therefore so run, not as uncertainly; so fight I, not as one that beateth the air:

But I keep under my body and bring it into subjection: lest that by any means, WHEN I HAVE PREACHED TO OTHERS, I myself should be a castaway.

(Paul is talking about rewards, he makes this clear in 1 Corinthians 3:12-15.)

"Now if any man build upon this foundation gold, silver, precious stones, wood, hay, stubble;

Every man's work shall be made manifest: for the day shall declare it, because it shall be revealed by fire; and the fire shall try every man's work of what sort it is.

If any man's work abide which he hath built thereupon, he shall receive a reward.

If any man's work shall be burned, he shall suffer loss: but he himself shall be saved; yet so as by fire.

(he shall suffer loss: but he himself shall be saved;)

See Part 6.

Ronald.

Part 4.

PENTECOST.

This is the beginning of the Christ church, and the Gospel first went out to the Jews, Peter was talking to the local crowd. "ALL Jews" Acts 2:5 "And there were dwelling at Jerusalem Jews, devout men, out of every nation under heaven. Also Acts 2:22 and Acts 2:36.

They were celebrating Shavuot-the Feast of Weeks-also known as Hag Ha Katzir, the Feast of Harvest, and known to most of us as the Feast of Pentecost. It is worthy to note that this feast was also one of three which was important for every able-bodied male to attend in Jerusalem.

Peter was letting them know that they crucified their king and Messiah.

Then in Acts 2:37 it's important to notice their reaction and what they asked; (Now when they heard this, they were pricked in their heart, and said unto Peter and to the rest of the apostles, Men and brethren, WHAT SHALL WE DO?)

In verse 38 Peter answers them; Then Peter said unto them, Repent, and be baptized every one of you in the name of Jesus Christ for the remission of sins, and ye shall receive the gift of the Holy Ghost.

This repentance was to turn from Judaism and be Identified with Christ.

They were pricked in their hearts shows a stone lifted that they stumbled over. Their baptism was their profession of faith. They were baptized by the Holyspirit during this process.

John 10:7-10 you see the Lord is calling the Jews out of Judaism.

In John 15:1 Jesus says I am the TRUE vine or "Genuine" vine. This is contrary to Israel being the degenerate vine seen in Jeremiah 2:21. John the Baptist came to Prepare the way for Lord, John's baptism was a baptism of repentance. This transition period went on throughout the early church.

They were to turn from Judaism and believe on Christ as mentioned in John 6:29.

Peter and the rest of the disciples was told to go Jerusalem to wait on power from on high. When they received that power, they begun to do the work of God.

See Part 5.

Roanld.

Part 3.

Christ is life,

The question is, have you died?

Are you his sheep?

What is the nature of sheep and how do they perform?

What is the role of the shepherd?

Salvation is not a performance or an acting Job. We are to be led by the Spirit and walk in it.

When we get out of line, God chastise us. He's your father and you're his son, He never abandons us. When sheep go astray the shepherd goes out looking for them. Christ is the Chief Shepherd.

John 10:3-4. To him the porter openeth; and the sheep hear his voice: and he calleth his own sheep by name, and leadeth them out. And when he putteth forth his own sheep, he goeth before them, and the sheep follow him: for they know his voice.

Ronald parallel John 10:9 with Joh 6:27 in part 2.

John 10:9 I am the door: by me if any man enter in, he shall be saved, and shall go in and out, and find pasture.

If we have died in Christ, we should already be seeing the power of his Resurrection and not depend on those fleshly attempts that brought no fruit. (self-righteousness) in Paul's case the Law.

Philippians 3:9-16.

Christ is doing something new.

He is putting his spirit in man that he might know him and do his statutes. "First to the Jews and then to the Gentiles, forming his Church.

John 10:16.

And other sheep I have, which are not of this fold: them also I must bring, and they shall hear my voice; and there shall be one fold, and one shepherd.

This brings us to Pentecost.

See Part 4.

May God bless you , remember the things that you have to look forward to :) , in this life and in the World to come .

Amen and God bless .

Frankie J thank you for your comment. We have all these modern version bibles that are corrupt, it sounds like you do see that.

If a person believes the Word of God is preserved for ever like God promised us in ( Ps 12:6-7) that person will more than likely say that the KJB translators were moved by the Holy Ghost to bring the prophecy of the scripture to this final generation to preserve His Word. When did this happen according to the Bible? ( 2 Pet 1:19-21) Now if you don't believe the Word of God was preserved for ever then you will say the holy men of God were not the KJB translators.

Does it make sense that God would preserve His Word in the Hebrew and Greek manuscripts that we have absolutely no chance of reading, with zero chance of studying today?

Jesus said in ( Jn 6:63) It is the spirit that quickeneth; the flesh profiteth nothing: the words that I speak unto you, they are spirit, and they are life.

The words Jesus spoke are spirit and life!

In ( Heb 4:12) "For the word of God is quick, and powerful, and sharper than any twoedged sword, piercing even to the dividing asunder of soul and spirit, and of the joints and marrow, and is a discerner of the thoughts and intents of the heart".

The word (quick) is 2198; it means to live, (a)-live.

( 2 Tim 3:16) "All scripture is given by inspiration of God, and is profitable for doctrine, for reproof, for correction, for instruction in righteousness". Inspiration = God breathed.

Jesus said in ( Jn 12:46-50) v48 "He that rejecteth me, and receiveth not ((my words)), hath one that judgeth him: the word that I have spoken, the same shall judge him in the last day". (The words that Jesus spoke will be the judge in the last day, do you not think we have those Words to study before the judgment at last day?)

( 2 Tim 2:15) Here we are told to "Study" to shew thyself approved of God, and to rightly divide the word of truth.

Wouldn't we have the word of truth if God wants us to Study it, and rightly divide it?

Blessings to you.

Jema thank you so much for your kind words of encouragement. I will keep posting the Truth, I don't mind not getting much feed back, but what is so disheartening is the feed back I do get, at times, is negative or accusing me of things that are not true.

You are also very much appreciated Jema.

Again, thank you and God Bless you.

Ronald.

Part 2.

Ronald, you said Salvation is a gift from God, but We cannot earn this gift, but we must receive it according to God's terms. Isn't that a contradictory statement?

What are God's terms? Isn't it believe in him whom he sent?

John 6:27-29.

27) Labour not for the meat which perisheth, but for that meat which endureth unto everlasting life, which the Son of man shall give unto you: for him hath God the Father sealed.

"Notice in verse 28 the disciple's ask what their labor is they must do.

Notice in verse 29 Jesus gives them their part!

28) Then said they unto him, What shall we do, that we might work the works of God?

29) Jesus answered and said unto them, This is the work of God, that ye believe on him whom he hath sent.

AFTER YOU PART SALVATION AND ETERNAL LIFE IS ESTABLISHED!

Here is the next step and source of our growth. Philippians 1:6 "Being confident of this very thing, that he which hath begun a good work in you will perform it until the day of Jesus Christ:

Ronald, concerning Abraham.

Abraham proved his faith by his works, He was justified by faith alone.

Here's how Paul put it in Romans 10:8-11. "AND NOTICE THE LAST SENTENCE IN VERSE 11"

"But what saith it? The word is nigh thee, even in thy mouth, and in thy heart: that is, the word of faith, which we preach.

That if thou shalt confess with thy mouth the Lord Jesus, and shalt believe in thine heart that God hath raised him from the dead, thou shalt be saved.

For with the heart man believeth unto righteousness; and with the mouth confession is made unto salvation.

For the scripture saith, WHOSOEVER BELIEVETH ON HIM SHALL NOT BE ASHAMED.

See part 3.

Giannis,

Part two,

The teaching of the immortal soul is from Greek philosophy, not the Bible. This confuses the understanding of the living and the dead. We became a living soul and when this body dies, we a no longer a living soul until we are resurrected into our immortal body. The only living is those through faith will receive the gift of eternal life everyone else will perish, be dead forever, everlasting.

Jesus is Lord over those who have died/dead now and the living, those who are now living, and the dead who died in faith who will be living after the resurrection into eternal life with Him, this is our hope. We should not live for self-gratification; we should be like Christ as Christ did not, please Himself in this life we should also not live to please ourselves but for others.

The scriptures from the former days, the Old Testament, have not stopped being valuable to us. The 39 books of the OT are the Words of God, full of truth, wisdom, history, and great encouragement for our walk in the Spirit.

The meaning of words changes, today we see the word Jew and we take the meaning as all who are in Judaism and everyone else are Gentiles/non-Jew. The word nation/nations or people/peoples is a better understanding for the word Gentile. The word Gentile that is used was translated from the Latin Vulgate the word Gentilis in the time of the 1st century would have meant anyone who was not a Roman citizen.

We know what kingdom is coming, we have been told and this kingdom will reign over all nations/peoples on this earth and that is our hope and what we have told to pray for, Matt. 6:9-10. Andronicus and Junia may have been at the gathering at Pentecost when Paul was against the Church by beating, killing, and putting believers in prison, but shortly after, we know how he was converted I am sure Andronicus and Junia were overwhelmed with encouragement and strengthened in faith.

Thank you again for your post.

God bless,

RLW

Hi Giannis,

Thank you,

Part one,

Continue in His goodness or be cut off. For what God has shown in His mercy by the sacrifice of His Son and his promise of eternal life to us, is it unreasonable for us to be a living sacrifice, this cannot refer to a sacrifice that covers or atones for sin. It is true repentance and obedience and service to Him. A choice to do and continue to do or be cut off/perish.

Cain and Abel made an offering, without doubt, they were doing this because God had instructed them, but it does not say what was instructed. Abel was a keeper of sheep and Cain was a tiller of the ground and they both brought of their works. Can we say it was because Abel sacrificed blood he was accepted? No.

Could they be sacrificing for sin when the law had not been given? Noah is the next one who is recorded sacrificing and the law was not yet given. When Cain killed Abel God put a mark on Cain so no one would kill him because the penalty for murder was not given until after the flood, Gen. 8:6.

It was not the offering type or quality that Cain offered, it was his heart, and his offering was not in faith, Genesis 4:6-8. LORD God spoke to Cain and said that if he would do good it would be accepted, but if not, sin would devour him. Same as we are to continue in His goodness or be cut off. This does not mean that we earn God's love or favor; we receive that as a result of salvation through Jesus, our repentance and obedience are the evidence of our faith, Hebrews 11.

"Let every soul be subject unto the higher powers" unless it would cause you to sin. I agree this has been used by many and is used today with misinterpreted Scriptures for control, power, and wealth over people. We see this in Revelation 2 with the Nicolaitans that exploded in the 4th century even with the punishment of death using the word heresy, the Greek word hairesis meaning, a self-chosen opinion, a religious or philosophical sect.

See part two.

Hi Brother Ronald.

Part 1.

Romans 8:23-32

As I promised, I would get back to you on this Salvation matter.

Sorry for such a delay.

(BY WAY OF RECAP.)

Context from the original post.

Paul is urging believers to "RECOGNIZE" you wasn't just Identified with Christ death in baptism,

You should also be Identified in his resurrection and have newness of Life.

God didn't just offer Christ as a free gift for those who believe unto Salvation. SALVATION IS A NEW LIFE.

(PAUL IS SAYING RECOGNIZE THAT SIN SHOULDN'T DOMINATE IN A BELIEVER'S LIFE.)

Does this make you perfect?

No, NOT CONDITIONALLY.

Shall we resist sin? Yes

We are perfect POSITIONALLY.

Colossians 3:1-4

We have been given an earnest of the Spirit, will be perfect CONDITIONALLY and glorified when we cast off this tabernacle/ Body of sin.

FOR CLARITY.

When I said Sanctification comes after Salvation, I want to clear that up a bit. We are Sanctified "Given Christ righteousness" That is the means of our Salvation. That is Positional Sanctification. THAT COME IMMEDIATLY!

We are hidden in Christ! We are sealed by the Holyspirit! Romans 8:23-32 sums the context of this thread perfectly.

"Conditional Sanctification" is the process we go through as WE GROW IN GRACE.

This is the imperfect condition a believer while in the body, "YET POCESSING EVERLASTING, ETERNAL SALVATION.

Your walk and works testifies of your faith and rebirth.

See part 2.

Directly after posting this I took my siesta which serves me to unwind from the upheaval of my age as well 'through my roaring all the day long.' I woke up refreshed and the Holy Spirit revealed what was the significance of the river heads. Blessed be the Lord who loadeth us daily with benefits (Ps.32:3;68:19) and even in my eighties He has been faithful to serve me in this word ministry. All glory to Him alone, Amen

Ronald,

so glad to hear that your night of sleep went well. I pray that this will continue night after night from here forward. I pray that your days will be filled with right thinking, guided by the Holy Spirit and that God shed His grace on you to resist whatever is causing disturbing thoughts. Amen.

Hi Ryant

Do you see Jesus doing this type of activity? Would this further your growth in His Divine Nature, His image & likeness, walking as He walk? or would it be conforming to this world image & likeness?

Friend,

we been brought with a price 1Cor 6:21

live unto themselves, but to Him 2Cor 5:16

Ryant, the difference between all that are call & the few that are chosen is that they obey from the heart the Truth that had been shown them, & as they prove their faithfulness in the measure of Grace given, God gave the increase, eventually united them with Himself.

John 17:21-24

choose wisely

may His love & grace be with you.

jimbob

You have solid points here, that are contributed by the Scriptures you given.

But in all fairness KJV has discrepancies too,

These translators were men learnt in the letter, it doesn't imply they were obedient to the Grace of God in the working of sanctification of the Spirit, obedience unto righteousness unto holiness to the new creature, but quite the opposite according to Scripture, 2Cor 3:6 could God used them? yes, even as God used Nebuchadnezzar

In the uses of Neb, this reveals to us that God has a secret way of using the wicked for His greater purposes, in this case, punishing Israel for their continuous disobedience to the manifestation of the Grace of God given under the Old Covenant. Hebrews tell us, the Grace of His words did not profit them because of unbelief in the Light. Psalms 19:7,8

This Word of God that is pure, tried in the furnace of the earth 7 times; that you so zealously speak of

Declares 1Cor 2:9-13 --- The Grace of God, the True Light that appears to all mankind, which is the living manifestation of His 2nd coming bringing us salvation, Hebrews 9:28 His spiritual appearances within our hearts, the working out of Matt 11:27

The Spirit alone is the interpreter of what He has inspires.

How much more so now, with the coming of Christ, we have the fullest of Grace & Truth reveal, whose beginning is as a tiny grain of mustard Seed in our hearts, yet; if believe in & obeyed grows by the operations of His Spirit to our profit, by faith in hearing the Word of God in our hearts. This is the sure Word of prophecy that Peter refers too!

And if not obeyed, then we will receive a just recompense of reward as they did...indeed, even more so according to Hebrews 10:29 Hebrew 12:25

Do some research in England during this moment of the reformation, when the KJV was written, their fruits/works declare who servants they are.

a friend

in love & truth.