All Discussion PAGE 2797

In Genesis 2:17 God tells Adam and Eve that the day they eat of the Tree of the Knowledge of Good and Evil, they will surely die. They did not die. So, what are the possibilities?

1. They will be subject to death.

2. They will die Spiritually and be subject to Physical death.

3. God will not keep them alive forever.

Many argue that the reference is to an immediate Spiritual death and a subsequent physical death. Others, like St. Augustine and many of the Church Fathers, will say Adam and Eve were created subject to physical death anyway. But, as long as they obeyed God's commandments, they would not experience death and God would keep them alive forever.

Others insist Genesis must be interpreted literally and therefore, the meaning of Genesis 2:17 is they would die Spiritually and eventually die Physically. But if Genesis is to be taken literally, the passage has to be taken at face value. Dying can only mean Physical death. The verse doesn't say Spiritual death. It doesn't imply Spiritual death. And God never discussed Spiritual death. The passage, therefore, must be taken literally or allegorically. Which is it?

If it means physical, then it didn't happen and God was either wrong, or He meant something else. Could the same be said for other things in Genesis 1-3? How many things are there in Genesis 1-3 that can be taken allegorically, if any? Are there any metaphores? Similes? So, the verse is either literal or it is not.

The message of Genesis 1-3 is that God created everything. He created mankind. And Jesus was the object, the reason, the Purpose for Creation. God didn't create man so s/he could could be happy busy bees frolicking in the Garden. He created mankind and everything that exists, so Christ (God in the flesh) could enter creation to liberate it from sin, corruption and all manner of evil. And through the Death of Christ, to bring in Eternal Perfection, immortality, sinlessness.

Well developed arguments and comments are welcome.

Adam, do you consider the disciples as Christians? My understanding of a Christian is one who has repented of his sins, born again by the Spirit of God & has the Spirit indwelling Him. The disciples were simply followers of Jesus, listening & learning from Him about Kingdom Life & the purpose of their Master's coming. They were being tutored & ministered to, to the end that when the Spirit came upon them & indwelt them, they would then do great exploits in Christ's Name reaching out from Jerusalem to the world when Jesus was no longer with them. Without that indwelling, they were simply dedicated disciples but still carnal in disposition. The fact that they went out to do great things in ministry prior to Christ's crucifixion ( Lk 9:1), was a temporary enduement of power given by Christ. The permanent power ("the power from on high" Lk 24:49) would only come at Pentecost. I see them as non-Christians in the Gospels & then as Christians after the Spirit of God baptized them & empowered them for life even to their willing martyrdom.

Christians who "want the best of both worlds" aren't Christians. You have said correctly, "You're either following Jesus or you're following the world. It can't be both." ( Mt 6:24). To be a Christian, even a faltering Christian, there must be the Spirit's conviction & work in the heart. I can't imagine that a Christian can be such & still behave like the unsaved. Who would he be fooling?

You: "Technically, salvation isn't given anyway until we're judged after this life, but its correct to consider oneself saved by grace as long as they're following Christ." Actually, this is what makes the Christian different to the adherents of other religions. They wait in hope till the last day, at God's final analysis & judgement, to know their eternal position. But what makes Christians different is that "we may know we have eternal life" ( 1 Jn 5:11-13). And this knowledge & confidence is right now: our faith & acceptance based on Christ's Work.

Please pray for me today

Please Pray for me today, Thank you and May GOD bless all those who pray for others , thank you JESUS for the hope you give us who will follow you

The reference columns points to a prophesy concerning Judas. I wrote of it; it's buried way back in the history pages.

If there was a tolerant feeling towards Judas; Jesus would've known what he was going to do.

That's the first time I've heard that exchange explained this way. What a blessing! Thank you.

Well, God went some distance to explain to us the timeline. In Daniel 9:24 seventy weeks (of years) are determined.... to accomplish about everything. But two things are specified for the first 69 weeks (69x7=483 years), 7 weeks for the building of the streets and walls and three score and two unto The Messiah the Prince. STARTING when??? Back to vs :24 -> From the going forth of the commandment to restore and to build Jerusalem... TO when??? -> Unto the Messiah the Prince. 69X7 years from Persian Commandment to free the Jews to go back to Jerusalem Until Jesus is crucified. 69 of the 70 weeks fulfilled 2000 years ago. That leaves one week. The key verse is Dan 9:27 And he shall confirm the covenant with many for one week, And in the midst of the week he shall cause the sacrifice...to cease and place the abomination of desolation. He is the antichrist. The covenant presumably is the seventy weeks for everything, looks like to restart the seventy weeks going to be some kind of 7 year treaty with "many" that includes Jews Building their temple and resumiing sacrifice like in the Old Testament. But he, the AC, breaks the treaty in the middle of the seven years. 42 months in Rev 11. Mt 24:15 ->When you see the Abomination of desolation spoken of by daniel standing in the HolyPlace Mt 24:21 ->Then shall be great tribulation. When will we see the Abom of Des? Dan 9:27 In the midst of the week...!!! What does the Abom of Des signify? The midpoint of the last 7 years and the beginning of The Great Tribulation for 3 1/2 years. Mt 24:29 ->>Immediately After the (3 1/2 year long) Tribulation, Jesus appears in the clouds as he collects the Christians from around the globe. So, the day and hour we don't know. But as Jesus' return nears, we have specific markers that tell us how long we have. "Except those days should be shortened there should no flesh be saved. But for the elects sake those days shall be shortened."

What is the definition of the suffix ites and Ian example cannaites and ephisians

Jesse, that was a wonderful insight (via Greek) into such a compelling portion of Scripture: I would never have considered the actual meaning of this discourse you presented, so this was quite a revelation. We do have the Greek Lexicon within reach but it's a case of putting in the time & effort to examine specific verses from it. Many thanks again.

prayers for Tyler, Joshua and Justin to continue on in God's will for their lives in the name of Jesus amen

I lived in Tulsa 3 years as a contract draftsman. It's a whole different world of Christian ministry there. The unbelievers there hold nothing back at unrestrained mockery & public ridicule. That's where I was learning street ministry.

Public is not like in here. I apologize for over-reacting.

There is one gift it is the Holy Spirit acts 2:38.

When you recieve the Holy Spirit with the evidence of speaking in tongues, The Holy Spirit comes into you with all the other manifestations of the Holy Spirit. 1 Corinthians 12.

Try typing Andrew Wommack Ministries into Google or some other search engine - he has LOTS of free resources on his website. I hope this helps. A free online study Bible is e-sword. Type this into Google and see what you think. If you want a physical study Bible its worth visiting a Christian bookshop to find one that is perfect for you as there are many to choose from. I hope this helps. :-)

Prayers for my family's wrongdoings to be remitted by Jesus. Those who cheat on life, or even do it in secret, let Christ do what he can to ply them, like a flax, into new creations of good strong consciouses.

Do not rely on JMO when it comes to the word of God, search the scriptures to find truth. The verses shared tell more than I would even write. If you follow Daniel's prophecy concerning the fourth kingdom in Daniel 7:18-26 and Revelation 13:1-9, then read the history, for prophecy fulfilled is history, you might get an understanding who the antichrist is. Read the history of what brought about the rise of protestantism and how Christians were persecuted and who did this.

Exodus 19:4 "You have seen what I did to the Egyptians, and how I bare you on eagle's wings, and brought you unto Myself."

God told Moses to tell the house of Jacob and the children of Israel this phrase.

I guess it is how God protected the people of Israel thru the entire journey to get away from the Egyptians. And that God will do the same thing when the people of Israel escape into the wilderness once again in the tribulation. God is going to prove to His people who He is by protecting them once again.

I don't believe the U.S. is mentioned in scripture.

And the women in Revelation is referring to the nation of Israel.

Kags

The fact is that I righteous by keeping the law, but through believing that Christ died in my place so that I may live. But being forgiven does not mean you continue in sin. The Decalogue shows the character of God which is Love Deut 6:5, Leviticus 19:18. And John 14:15, 15:14 shows this more clearly. Christ called us into obedience as He did the Israelites, He delivered them from bondage and then gave them His Commandments Exodus 20:1,2. If I claimed to be saved and love God, yet I fornicate, kill, tell lies, steal, disobedient to parents etc, would this bring praise and followers for Christ? Read James 2, 1 John 2:1-6, 1 Cor 6:9-10, 2 Peter 3:16, Romans 13:8-10, 6:23 and you will see.

Chris,

Love is another great example. For a long time I wondered why Jesus asked Peter three times "Peter, do you love me?" You would think once or twice to confirm would have been enough, but a third time? Someone told me it was because Peter denied Jesus three times, and that's why Peter was asked three times do you love me. It sounded okay at the time.

But that's not why at all. Again, we see love being used in John Chapter 21 and we know what love is from an English standpoint. But Jesus asks the first time "Simon, do you love me more than these? Jesus uses the word Agape. Peter responds using the word Phileo for love. Both words are translated love in English but have different meanings in Greek. The second time Jesus asks, He again uses Agape, and Peter responds with Phileo. I remember when Jesus told Peter he would deny Him three times, and Peter's response was that he would never deny Jesus.

So Jesus asks Peter twice "Do you love me? Do you Agape me?" Peter responds again, you know I love you, you know I Phileo you.

Here's the real kicker. The third time Jesus asks "Do you love me," Jesus uses Phileo. Jesus used Agape the first two times and Peter responded with you know I Phileo you. So now Jesus is really challenging Peter by saying do you really Phileo me? And Peter gives the most perfect response imaginable. Peter says "Lord, you know all things!"

During this whole exchange between Peter and Jesus, they both used the word love, but they each used a different word which gives us the true meaning of what that exchange was all about. This is why I love the Greek.

Agape is the highest form of sacrificial love there is and it is produced by God's Spirit. Phileo is human love and affection. Peter wasn't about to make the same mistake again by responding back to Christ and saying yes I Agape you. Peter realizes that Jesus knows his heart.

I didn't mean for this to be so long but you brought up a great example and I wanted to share this. God Bless!

Please pray for my sister Marva, she been spiritual attack by Satan for the past two months, the enemy is relentless by attacking her mind.

Thanks for the prayers. Shalom

Good morning brethren's

I just want to hear and feel the presence of God. To know Him better

I just want Him to open my eyes and ears.

Yes indeed! That's correct and refreshing to here it. Thank you!

So thankful for the Lord being my Shepherd. He will not allow any bad things to happen to me. He is

always with me. Even allowing "goodness and mercy" to follow me. All of the days of my life these

Angels are with me. Happy that each of God's children have their own two (2) angles to be before and

after them where-so ever they go. I have prayed this Psalm with me through many surgeries and life's

happenings. God never , never has left me alone.

Barbara, I would like to add, Job, had his friends and they tried to figure out what Job did wrong that God would cause all those things to happen to him. Job proclaimed he did nothing wrong. It was Satan, if you remember the story. Just as in Verse 9 neither the man nor the parents sinned. It was so Jesus could heal, he was born blind. In Job, we learn of the Leviathan and the Behemoth, two powerful creatures that are neither good nor bad, they just do their thing and sometimes cause misfortune. But, Job was not a sinner though people thought he was and he argued with God. He layed it out to Him.....And, God responded

Jacob, deceived his father Issac and his brother Esau, and ended up wrestling with an angel not letting him go, (like wrestling in prayer not quitting till he got an answer). The angel named Jacob, Israel. So, if you see Israel and Jacob in the bible, they're the same person. And, if see a name with "el" in it, el translates to God. (Immanuel, Michael, Gabriel, El Shaddai, etc). You asked a very important question. I wanted to be thorough to offer some kind of help, in your seeking God. Remember, Jesus came to Earth looking for us.

This is for Barbara who asked if God hears sinners. I think, Barbara you read in the chapter verse 31, where the Pharisee talked about God not hearing sinners. Even though this is the New Testament, the people still only had the Old Testament ways about them. They had 613 laws to obey. They did different kinds of sacrifices to "cleanse" themselves. Jesus, had an amazing task. He had to challenge and change the only ways the Jewish people ever knew. That's what is meant by new wine in old skin, or new cloth on an old garment. Jesus, simplified the law (laws) even the 10 commandments into two commandments, love God with all your heart body soul and strength and to love your neighbor as yourself. Jesus, changed thought process to no matter what work we do, we can't buy our forgiveness. It is a gift, through our belief, faith and trust in Him and God. So, yes God hears sinners. Everyone is a sinner. Even the preacher at church sins. The only work that God wants us to do to "earn" salvation, is work on our inner selves. To Love Him and our Neighbors. To work on our selfish, carnal ways. To seek the Spirit, and not the flesh. Not to abuse Grace. So, when we sin, to repent and be sincere, we are saddened that we hurt Jesus and God and the Holy Spirit. Have you ever hurt your mama's feelings and felt bad for doing it, cause your mama loves you? The Pharisee had spiritual vanity, they thought themselves above every one else, they were self-righteous. We have to remind ourselves, we are saved by Jesus' works and sacrifice and the Love and Grace that God gives us. Yes, he hears us, and he wants us in prayer, heart felt prayer, lay it on the line, speak honestly. It doesn't have to be fancy. Just be real with Him. He hears us, us rotten sinners of whom I am the worst said Peter, and I feel that way at times myself. And, I keep praying knowing he hears me and is molding me. Jesus taught the Lord's Prayer for sinners. The Disciples sinned. Peter denied Jesus as the cock crowed.

Freddie, He is calling His people to prayer and repentance. Troubling times serve us by bolstering our faith and bringing about our total dependence upon Him.

Hello Debbie,

It's nice to see someone here who shares the same last name as myself. Yes, I agree that God knew Judas would choose evil over Christ. In fact, I think that's why Judas was chosen. God needed someone evil to carry out an evil deed. And yes, the bible does tell us when Satan entered into Judas. But what I notice is that this was all in God's timing.

Here's the scary part of this whole thing. Remember when they were all reclining at the table and Jesus said didn't I choose you 12, and one of you is a devil? One of you will betray me. Neither of them knew who it was. They all asked "is it I?" Even Judas asked the same question. You would think that after three years together, and now Jesus is saying one of you will betray me, that they would be able to guess who it might be. But they didn't know. That's the scary part. This tells me that we can have people in the church who look like followers, act like followers, and claim to be true believers, but are not. What a scary thought!

Yes, Judas was part of the 12. But did you know he was a thief? He was in charge of the money bag and he was stealing the money from it. This would be like one of us stealing money from the collection offering at our church. Judas was evil the entire time. How do you correlate Judas as proof that someone who is a follower and serves Christ can fall away from God? I don't see Judas as being a true follower or one who served Christ.

What I notice in the gospels is that every time Jesus shared an intimate and private moment with a few of His disciples, it was usually with Peter, James, and John. They seemed to be part of the "Inner circle" so to speak when it came to being close to Jesus. Never once do I see Jesus sharing an intimate moment with Judas.

As far as free will, you please share with me your full understanding of free will. I would like to know your understanding of free will before I respond with my thoughts on free will.

Let's fight the good fight! Love our neighbors as ourself and remain reconciled in the blood of the Lamb until our last breath.

I saw this list the other day and was floored with the number of names. When I pray I'm listening for the FRUIT name; what "it" does. Some of these preside over drug addiction(sorcery).

I had 2 brothers die from drugs.

I'm thinking I'm blessed to be alive. I've seen stuff... Thank God for warring angels.

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Jezebeth - (Unk) the demon of falsehoods.

Kali - (Hindu) daughter of Shiva, the destroyer. Kali ("the black one") is the Hindu mother goddess, symbol of dissolution and destruction.

Kasdeya - The Book Of Enoch refers to this demon as the "fifth satan"

Kobal - (Unk) Hell's entertainment liason.

Kostchtchie - (Russian) a goblin of death.

*Leonard - (see also Urian german) Demon of sorcery . Appears as a giant black goat.

Leviathan - (Hebrew) the serpent, the raging sea. Snake worship. Water Elemental. Grand admiral of hell. Seen as androgynous.

*Lilith - (Hebrew) in Hebrew myth - Adams first wife. Later wife to Satan. According to many demonologists, Lilith presides over Succubi. Lilith is said to attempt to destroy newborn infants. For this reason the practice of writing a formula to drive Lilith away on all four corners of the birth chamber was adopted by the Jews. Lilith is the princess of hell.

Loki - (Teutonic) devil.

Lucifer - (Roman) The Light Bringer. Air Elemental. Often misconstrued as being Satan. They are two seperate demons.

Lucifuge, Lucifuge Rofocale - (Roman) devil.

Malphas - (Unk) Grand president of the infernal regions. Appears as a crow.

*Mammon - (Aramaic) god of wealth & profit.

Mandragoras - (Unk) FAMILIAR demons. They are attributed to the mandrake root and considered gifts from Satan to the SORCERER who conjures them.

This is a sliver of the list. These things are real. I have to pray. Are we experiencing a new release of these things on people?

Backslid, fence sitting people? People who don't read their Bibles for themselves?

I just peeked at The Commentary Box.

It's talking about leaving your job and family, to go on the road to evangelize the lost, heal the sick, cleanse the leper's, etc.

Ministry would become your new profession. As Chris has said from his ministry days; it's a hard life at times, but fulfilling.

The poor you'll always have with you.

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Not many people want to be involved in full time or part-time ministry nowadays. It concerns me: The Prayer Request Room needs ministry in there every day. Can't we all give one hour a day to pray for folk?

This website needs to fix the rooms so there are 3 separate rooms with comment separated by room name.

There needs to be directions on how to get to the Commentary Box easier.

Cya

god loves you