All Discussion PAGE 289

OSAS and the family of God and how we are saved to be part of the Body of Christ as well as individually

Revelation 19:14 states: "and the armies in heaven, clothed in [b]fine linen, white and clean, followed Him on white horses".

Revelation 2:26-27 says 26 "And he that overcometh, and keepeth my works unto the end, to him will I give power over the nations: 27 And he shall rule them with a rod of iron; as the vessels of a potter shall they be broken to shivers: even as I received of my Father."

Perhaps a reminder of the exhortation of 1 John 2:10 is needed at this point. "He that loveth his brother abideth in the light, and there is none occasion of stumbling in him." The next verse states the opposite state of a soul who hates his brother; that is being in darkness. We are adopted sons and daughters ( Ephesians 1:5 and many other verses) and part of something vastly bigger than ourselves. If we are saved we are no longer our own ( 1 Cor. 6:19) and bought with a price. Therefore our commission and omission of transgressions affects not only us but others in our midst as well; particularly true in regard to the body of Christ. Salvation itself; therefore in order to be genuine begins to give the true convert a sense of being "seated in heavenly places" ( Eph. 2:6). That verse shows how we are in that state together as well in the Body of Christ not just as individuals.

What matters to those who the Godhead dwells ( John 14:23) is the Lord's concerns. Note that keeping God's Word is a part of the verse indicating those who are truly possessed by the Holy Ghost. God gets all the glory and does all the work; but we are responsible to work out our salvation with fear and trembling (Phillipians 2:12) demonstrating our inner heart through our outer actions and works. The persevering is part of God's work of sanctification; but of course we need to be demonstrating good works predestined for us to do from the foundation of the world ( Ephesians 2:10).

Agape

OSAS and "alter calls" and other church issues

My previous post touched on church doctrine. These days we cannot have assurance that a literal hell is something that is taken seriously; or that only Christ is the way to eternal life. A catechism SHOULD state what a core belief is of such matters; if it is not being adhered to disciplinary action should be taken and if it is some spurious statement we have no business remaining there.

Many megachurches seem to want to cater to the nonbeliever and rather than aking them tremble at the fear of God and His presence they want to present Christianinty as something that fits into a music venue; social activities and other things that appeal to the flesh. Rather than making coming to Christ the beginning of a death sentence all the verses that Jesus spoke such as Matthew 10:22-24 and numerous other admonitions such as 1 Peter 4:12-19 have to be ignored with such techniques.

The prosperity gospel shouldn't have to be dissected to show the error; looking at the life of Christ and the Disciples should suffice to show it is utter rubbish. An honest assessment shows that leadership at such places doesn't want to lose parishioners; thus "filthy lucre" and the love of such things ( Titus 1:11) is a deadly vice. Sadly though we see others who are caught up in emotional sentimentality. It is easy of course to be convinced one's girlfriend or boyfriend will turn their affections to God since they show partiality to us. Making Christ appeal to youth with attractive women dressed in worldly apparel or cheap gimmicks will at best cause a few predestined to come to faith to wake up; just as someone who is in a congregation with false doctrines can hear enough of the true Word to be convicted; in other words despite the bad approach rather than because of it. But counting the cost of being a Disciple can't be ignored; as well as challenging those who would bring in error and restricting membership to those who truly believe

OSAS and "confessional regeneration"

In light of my previous post; we see that the Lord predestines those He saves. There will be many more verses on that subject to come and I have covered this in older posts; in particular detail with the Book of John about a year ago on this site. In this posting I am looking at how today's typical call to salvation differs from Biblical standards; which can give someone false assurance of salvation as well as expectations of things to be "peaches and cream" after deciding to make a declaration of being Born Again.

Evangelism is a dying art in the traditional sense except for a select few that are diligent to keep that Great Commission of Matthew 28:16-20. There is some advantage in this; in that most individuals that I have met are not part of a church program and thus aren't on an advertising campaign to attend a certain denomination. This differs them from churches where within the building there are "altar calls" week after week where there may or may not be a correct Gospel preached. The disadvantage is that these folks are often "lone rangers" or not heavily committed to a local church; if anything because of the lack of support they often get which is often due to other activities taking up all the time of those in leadership along with the parishioners.

I am not here to argue whether the statement "God loves you" is entirely accurate; at least during their earthly existance; if only for the verse that it rains on the just and the unjust ( Matthew 5:45). We are told to love our enemies in the verse before ( Matt. 5:44) so therefore it characterizes how the Spirit would operate in believers. However; we cannot present a Gospel without a dire warning of impending doom for all sinners who are naturally enemies of God; and on the way to eternal damnation. Again; sadly the lifestyle of many confessed believers still demonstrates worldliness. If we are not serious ourselves about Holiness we can't expect others tobe

RicoUS

I am so glad you are persistent in seeking prayer for the needs of your loved ones and for all believers and for those who need to become believers. I will continue to pray for you and yours.

OSAS and the Parable of the Sower ( Matthew 13).

19 When any one heareth the word of the kingdom, and understandeth it not, then cometh the wicked one, and catcheth away that which was sown in his heart. This is he which received seed by the way side.

20 But he that received the seed into stony places, the same is he that heareth the word, and anon with joy receiveth it;

21 Yet hath he not root in himself, but dureth for a while: for when tribulation or persecution ariseth because of the word, by and by he is offended.

22 He also that received seed among the thorns is he that heareth the word; and the care of this world, and the deceitfulness of riches, choke the word, and he becometh unfruitful.

23 But he that received seed into the good ground is he that heareth the word, and understandeth it; which also beareth fruit, and bringeth forth, some an hundredfold, some sixty, some thirty.

Let us compare this scripture with these verses

John 10:27 "My sheep hear my voice, and I know them, and they follow me:"

Matthew 7:21-23 21 Not every one that saith unto me, Lord, Lord, shall enter into the kingdom of heaven; but he that doeth the will of my Father which is in heaven.22 Many will say to me in that day, Lord, Lord, have we not prophesied in thy name? and in thy name have cast out devils? and in thy name done many wonderful works? 23 And then will I profess unto them, I never knew you: depart from me, ye that work iniquity.

Salvation isn't just us "accepting Christ" but us KNOWING Him and of course means He must "know" us. This word means the most intimate relationship and is used to describe relations between husband and wife in scripture. Hearing Christ therefore is only a first step on our part; the Pharisees were blind even though they saw (end of Matthew 23). Those who Christ know were those given to Him by the Father ( John 6:39). Predestination is a repeated theme in John indicating those who God gave the Christ to save. Salvation means goodfruit

Hello Pnovello,

Thanks for the kind words.

She has not closed the door on me. She continues to be my friend but, due to her inability to be mobile and depression, she just cannot bring herself to interact. This is sad, but I understand and lift her up in prayer and look forward to being able to see her in time. She is very burdened right now and those who are so downhearted do fall into "cocooning" themselves from those outside their tiny sphere.

Right now she does not feel that she has faith to trust the Lord, but God has implanted faith in her through the Spirit and the word of the gospel. I know that that seed of faith is still present but adversity is preventing it to grow and be seen to her right now. The Lord is faithful and when He has begun such a good work of salvation in someone, He will bring it to completion. I just wish she did not have so much daily pain and immobility.

Hi Daruled,

God is a loving God and does not want anyone to perish, but He is also a just God. In Romans 14, I say this in love, we should consider the context. Would not Universalism possibly do what Paul is teaching against? My understanding of Romans 14:11 is this will be at the judgment, every tongue will confess, whether it be good or bad, and the results will be eternal life or damnation, not all will be saved.

My understanding is these verses do not mean there will not be some who will not bow and accept Jesus's authority. Just a couple of verses and if all will be saved how do we understand this?

Matthew 25:40-41 And the King shall answer and say unto them, Verily I say unto you, Inasmuch as ye have done it unto one of the least of these my brethren, ye have done it unto me. 41 Then shall he say also unto them on the left hand, Depart from me, ye cursed, into everlasting fire, prepared for the devil and his angels:

Revelation 20:15 And whosoever was not found written in the book of life was cast into the lake of fire.

God bless,

RLW

"In Christianity, Universalism is a theological position that posits that all individuals, regardless of their faith or actions in life, will ultimately be reconciled with God and attain salvation. This belief has historically been considered heretical by many mainstream Christian denominations, especially those that adhere to doctrines of eternal damnation for the unrepentant.

Universalism: Known historically as apokatastasis, the belief that all persons will be saved. Hence universalism involves the affirmation of universal salvation and the denial of eternal punishment. Universalists believe that ultimately all humans are somehow in union with Christ and that in the fullness of time they will gain release from the penalty of sin and be restored to God. Twentieth-century universalism often REJECTS the deity of Jesus and explores the "universal" bases of all religions. See also Apokatastasis.

1 John 4:6 (KJV) 6 We are of God: he that knoweth God heareth us; he that is not of God heareth not us. Hereby know we the spirit of truth, and the spirit of ERROR.

Psalms 25:5 (KJV) 5 Lead me in thy truth, and teach me: for thou art the God of my salvation; on thee do I wait all the day.

Daruled,

So it is true every knee will eventually bow. Most will be to late, as it will be after they are dead, and standing before Jesus on Judgement Day.

Here Jesus confirms FEW will find everlasting life.

Matthew 7:14

"Because strait is the gate, and narrow is the way, which leadeth unto life, and few there be that find it."

Now is the time, while we are still living to bow before Jesus/God, pick up your cross and become a True Christ Follower!

Read and believe!

REVELATION IS IN THREE PARTS - PAST / PAST (WITH PRESENT DAY APPLICATIONS) / FUTURE

Things which thou hast SEEN ( Rev 1:1-18) - things which ARE ( Revelation 2,3) - things which shall be HEREAFTER ( Rev 4:2)

John wrote down what he had seen, in the order in which he saw them. If a chapter starts 'and then' or 'after these', that means chapters prior back to chapter 4:2 have taken place. Chapter 7 starts 'after these' so chapters 4,5,6 have happened.

RAPTURE ('SEIZING, CARRYING OFF') There have been raptures already just by the definition above, more yet to come.

Enoch, Elijah, Captives set free from Paradise in the earth are raptures in the OT - Anyone left behind that repent will have to endure all seals up to the 6th. After that they must endure until that end. (if they make the end)

(Enoch, Elijah, Captives free) / DON'T MISS THIS RAPTURE [Dead in Christ rise first, they which are alive) / Tribulation begins (rapture 2 Rev 7:14) Great multitude..'out of' meaning within. (rapture 3) Two Witnesses, (rapture 4) 144,000 'man child'](THIS IS A NOT PLAN B TALK OR ANOTHER DOCTRINE) DONT MISS THAT RIDE TO THE SKY.

BUT 'THEE RAPTURE' WE MUST ALL AVOID. This is where all the mix up happens, this post trib pre trib and newest I heard is pre wrath. The mention of 'last day' or 'the end' and English lacking is a factor. 'The end' 'Last day' are very broad terms, Which is part of the misunderstanding.

God's Grace continues before, during and after Tribulation is another reason the Eternal Security Doctrine has it wrong.

ZACH 14:16 'THOSE THAT ARE LEFT' Who, people who didn't take the mark, serve [year-year].-- Anyone left behind that repent will have to endure all seals up to the 7th. After that anyone saved after must endure until that end. (if they live to the end of trib) If all take the mark die, and the ones that didn't are killed, who will be left to save?

Great Tribulation ( Rev 4:2- Rev 19:11-21) 2nd Coming of Jesus Christ (English is important)

Gigi, oh my goodness! Yes, a very hard life she has lived for the past five years. It is hard to understand why the Lord tells us to go and heal yet some don't get healed. We cannot say to them that they don't have faith, yes they do. For her husband passing away like that must be a burden beyond measure. Having a friend such a you is a blessing but she has closed that door. I am praying that she realize that she needs you. And I am praying that her confidence and trust be restored. God bless you, from your sister in Christ.

Noun End (Greek) When some says the end, I say which end? (New Testament Greek Translated in English)

END - end, finish, close, conclusion, termination, extremity

END - end, edge, tip, limb, extremity, rim

EXPIRY - expiry, end, expiration, maturity, termination, close

END - end, conclusion, close

GOAL - goal, end, terminal, terminus, bourn, bourne

PURPOSE - purpose, objective, aim, scope, view, end

FINALE - end, conclusion

VERB

I FINISH - finish, end, conclude, complete, end up, get through

CLOSE - close, close by, end

The Bible (KJV 1611) should be understood by all just the same. But some believe that interpret means to interpret what 'they' think it is saying. We are to interpret not what we think it says but interpret what the Word says. Giving every word its proper meaning. Words in KJV time didn't have words and definition like we do today. God Bless. It's not about who might be wrong, its about finding out who is wrong and helping them get it right (advice + knowing you are wrong but take advice = Wisdom) Same goes for the person that is wrong. Its just a misunderstanding between Believers that can be figured out together without strife. Where there is strife there is pride.

Read with a Child's mind and faith. Take the Word literally until it is not possible, knowing that with GOD nothing is impossible. With a figurative statement, apply it to a literal situation. A person's faith will be key and will determine what is literal or figurative. Does it literally mean 'pluck my eye out?' Well if that's what it takes I would say yes. But just quit the sin business and keep both those good eyes. Looking up definitions/Origin into English) Looking in Oxford Dictionary, use discernment when looking up words online. Words are ranked on most common usage. Read the Bible from their perspective. More words and definitions have been added since 1611.

Genesis 1:1 In the beginning God created the Heaven and the earth. (Literal, or you stuck here)

1 John 5:7 For there are Three (Literal: 1,2,3) that bear record in Heaven, the Father, the Word, and the Holy Ghost: and these Three are one (Figurative to Literal: They are God, One in Unity or One in agreeance, There at the Beginning, etc)

Thank you Heavenly Father for your Grace and Mercy in waking me up this morning. I am at work and I am praying that you continue work with me and through me Lord. I am not perfect, however you see it fit to love me anyways. I pray for all to have a pure heart and rebuke the devil spirit from our hearts. Thank you in advance Lord.

Asking for strong protection and breakthrough for us and all in need. Lord Jesus please fight out battles ( Ex. 14:14). Please send more strength and encouragement. Thank you Lord. Amen

Amen. In Jesus name.

Lord Jesus please bless Bibleman72 and his mom. Please provide transportation for him also for future visits. Please meet both him and his mom at the point of all their needs. Thank you for your promise that you will provide for all our needs in accordance with your riches in glory in Christ Jesus. In your holy name I pray. Amen.

Amen. Thank you. Father you know the cries of Pnovello's heart. Please attend to them and bring healing, comfort strength and encouragement. Please guide and protect. Thank you. In Jesus name. Amen.

Thank you. The Lord bless you too.

The Third Heaven (2 of 2)

Instead of a veil the Ch. 4 we have 'a sea of glass like unto crystal'. (cf.Ez.1). When Lamb opens the fifth seal "I saw under the altar the souls of them that were slain for the word of God, and for the testimony which they held (Re.6:9)." We have a great congregation to whom Psalmist speaks of. "And I beheld, and I heard the voice of many angels round about the throne and the beasts and the elders: and the number of them was ten thousand times ten thousand, and thousands of thousands;"(Re.5:11) (Ps.40:9) " have preached righteousness in the great congregation: lo, I have not refrained my lips, O Lord, thou knowest."

Each believer witness before this great congregation.These are cloud of witnesses (He.12:1) and they figure in the night vision of Daniel."A fiery stream issued and came forth from before him: thousand thousands ministered unto him, and ten thousand times ten thousand stood before him"(Dan.7:10)'

It is for this reason Jesus warned," For there is nothing covered, that shall not be revealed; neither hid, that shall not be known./ Therefore whatsoever ye have spoken in darkness shall be heard in the light; and that which ye have spoken in the ear in closets shall be proclaimed upon the housetops."(( Luke 12:2-3) Elisha for this reasonwhould know what King of Syria had planned(2 Ki.6"12-17)

What is our heart but a Spiritual space where truth serves as our guide. Indwelling Spirit serves us as an in-house tutor. As many as are led by it are the sons of God for whom the third heavens serve as the presence. 'My presence shall go with thee and give thee rest.(Ex.33:15)'

Heaven, The Third (1 of 2)

Is there any specific place for heaven? The Spirit gives it a concrete image, 'Heaven is my throne,' and Sovereign will of God is the Law. "Forever, O Lord, your word is settled in heaven (Ps.119:89-NKJV)." This throne is in consonance with the eternal word and established as the Law regulating all events persons and places accordingly.

Jesus said, 'In my Father's house are many mansions: if it were not so, I would have told you. I go to prepare a place for you ( John 14:2).' John in his vision gives us a preview of the fullness of God, which covers the earth and heaven to which the three heavens belong. (See under R-The Book of the Revelation)

In the wilderness what God was a pattern and He commanded Moses,' According to all that I shew thee, after the pattern of the tabernacle, so shall ye make it.(Ex.25:9).' What St John sees in his vision ("And out of the throne proceeded lightnings and thunderings and voices"-Re.4:5) can we not make a schematic representation of the house of God? We can assign the Most Holy Place at the apex of a cone set on the earth. Voice of God is signified with thunderings and lightenings. God who no one can approach to it or see(1 Ti.6:16) signifies Holiest of the holies. "And there were seven lamps of fire burning before the throne, which are the seven Spirits of God." The Throne and memorials of God signify Trinity in which the seven lamps constitute the Holy Spirit.

I will David.

Praying for this family

please remember me and my family , my daughter Deanna ad Jessica and there young families in your prayers

Vial

Vial or phial was a flask traditionally used for anointing kings in Israel. Samuel anointed Saul on command from God; so did Elisha (1 Sa.10:1;2 Ki.9:1). In the Book of the Revelation these phials are given to seven angels and they were to pour out the wrath of God, significance of the number cannot be missed in this verse. "And I heard a great voice out of the temple saying to the seven angels, Go your ways, and pour out the vials of the wrath of God upon the earth." (Re.16:1). Unlike other occasions the command comes from within the temple and we are seeing events accordingly from the Jewish perspective.

The Holy Spirit has God and his Christ in mind and these angels are entrusted with ceremonial cleansing. The earth and the fullness thereof are of the Lord. So this announcement is in order, 'The kingdoms of this world are become the kingdoms of our Lord, and of his Christ; and he shall reign for ever and ever."(Re.11:15)

Seven vials refer by the Law of Gradation to indicate the scattering of the enterprises of the godless. Noisome and grievous sores upon which had the mark of the beast (Re.16;2),

The sea as the blood of a dead man (v.3)

The rivers and the fountains of water became like blood(v.4)

The sun to scorch men with fire (v.8)

The fifth angel- upon the seat of the beast 'and his kingdom was full of darkness.'(v.10)

Drying up the great river Euphrates, preparing the way of the kings of the east.

The seventh upon the air. Answer from the throne:"It is done'. (v.17)

Let us all do the work we are called to do. Pray for our nation's leadership in all 3 branches of government. May they find salvation in CHRIST JESUS, and then study HIS word to know how to walk with HIM.

GOD bless all on this forum and that we seek to worship and glorify HIM.

September 11, 2023

Peniel (2 of 2)

God's claim on Jacob was begun before birth, and not loosened for all his rascality. He could brazenly stand before his father pretending to be Esau but chains of events that had brought his grandfather out of Haran were still in a flux and God was in charge. He visited him in dreams and visions to encourage him. While he had to come to grips with consequences of his actions, his sojourn in the House of Laban was indeed the part of a process determined by God to win him over. Jacob just as he fled from Esau, and the scripture describes it thus, - 'Jacob stole away unawares' with his two wives sons and all his goods.

It was time for God to confront Jacob. When it came the Spirit tells us that it was 'until the breaking of the day.' Jacob had wrestled with his failings and prevailed over them; At the breaking of dawn God accepts him as the one who prevailed with Him as well. As children of promise we need focus upon whom we have entrusted our souls. "If we confess our sins, he is faithful and just to forgive us our sins, and to cleanse us from all unrighteousness (1 Jn.1:9)."

What separates a person as child of promise from his carnal nature is the core value of a Christian Living. It is faith. Walk of Jacob revealed a marked difference before and after God named him Israel. It is also significant to note that God named him as Israel but confirmed it later And God said unto him, Thy name is Jacob: thy name shall not be called any more Jacob, but Israel shall be thy name: and he called his name Israel. (Ge.35.10)

We have been adopted in the family of God where Jesus Christ is the first born from the dead. 'Our works' is holding on to faith as God confirmed Jacob as Israel.

Peniel (1 of 2)

Name 'Face of God' where Jacob wrestled with a 'man'. He saw God face to face, with reference to the presence of God, figuratively, an angel of the Lord.

"And Jacob was left alone; and there wrestled a man with him until the breaking of dawnI will not let thee go, except thou bless me (Ge.32:24-26)."

Often there are certain events in our lives that define us. For a child of God the day he accepted Jesus Christ as his Saviour Lord. That point of time is similar to how Jacob fared in Peniel.

Similarly when we make certain of our salvation by confession we have defined what we are. We are the children of promise. God's promise to Abraham has come to us through His Son. The same God, the same promise. There was nothing accidental about events however ordinary it might seem, before or after.

God let Jacob bring out his natural passions and inclinations that are human in his natural environment, but as a child of promise he had another aspect: there was a day of reckoning with God. "Be prepared to meet thy God".( Amos 4:12) It is to make one aware of God's claim, which in terms of theology is called Predestination. (2 Co.5:10)

Oases,

Amen. We are called as well as blessed in his Son even before we are born. Each of us carry a world of the Spirit so as the Psalmist says, 'where shall we go from thy Spirit?'It is like the ark of Noah it is God who has shut us in. " Thou hast beset me behind and before, and laid thine hand upon me." So in the age of pandemics or in the time of climate crisis we are safe in his many promises. We are living these two worlds even now. It takes the sun rays 8 minutes to reach us. In fact we are looking into past, while our feet is planted on the ground. It is constantly shifting under our very feet. What happened in Morocco ought to tell us that what our eyes tell does only so much. As children of God let us have grace to live abiding in him and abounding in good works for which we are called. Amen