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Introduction: An easy to understand analogy of proper vs improper scriptural application and comprehension is looking at the Word such as the 10 commandments spoken by God and written on the tablets that Moses brought forth from the mountain and eventually was placed in the Ark of the Covenant as compared to Satan's use of scripture which were clearly for his own diabolical purposes. Everything that lies in-between is subject to well..subjectivity and takes more careful analysis to determine if the context and subsequent interpretation holds any water or not. Of course there are those who would adhere to other religions who borrow from and utilize parts of scripture; or some aberrant mixture of truth and error so as to perpetuate whatever deception is being practiced. For now I am putting aside considerations of that camp and focusing on PRIMARY meanings of the Bible and its basic truths. Some of these things may; as our founding fathers said seem "self-evident"; but nonetheless it is possible that our own mind as well as local traditions and cultures may skew things unknowingly in a certain direction that the passage may or may not be saying. Hence; we are all to be "Bereans" (see Acts 17:11).
It may seem an absurd question to ask why do we read the Bible; particularly on this site. I need to look at myself; first and foremost when asking that question so if anything; I am not endlessly pontificating to glorify some intellectual prowess that I claim to possess and do nothing more than puff my pride ( 1 Cor. 8:1 and other passages). Again; on this subject I am not going to focus on the nonbeliever despite the fact it would seem this question is more appropriate for them.
Let us go back for a second to consider those in the early church who didn't have possession of much or any of the scrolls.
We only seee Jesus reading the scroll lonce in synagogue; otherwise orating.
I shall give the rest of lines I composed this morning. Here we have dialogue between man and angel. What do theyrepresent? In Christ the holy city of God has single measurement Re.21:17
5:37.
Amen, how little have I with my will won,/ Sum total: trifles and nothing but vain tears / This pond of slough supplied vile form, its own;
38
Satan has with earthly glories his votaries/ Won and surely shall be to it return,/ Thus ashes to ashes their vaunted glories.
39.
Bless'd angel, Your presence let me scan/ Blessed hope of our calling brighter/ From the rock, the pit from where I'm hewn.
40.
On two pinions you and Christ the Savior/ Guard me from the dark waters the earth below/ Let them roar, but not come any where near.
41.
God has set his fiery throne: below/ Let the flood of ungodly nations stir/ The Savior Lord has dealt a body blow
42.
In quietness and trust let your hope soar/ He shall perform all his promises/To which we attend and we concur.
Canto-5 The ministering angel informs man
5: 33.
How God descants over numbers fixed: /While number Three reserved for the Son/ Affirms in him the saints are ever blessed
34.
The Word transports the gospel from man's bone/To flesh the woman out for the Head/ The Number Twelve fore'er allied with Zion.
35.
The one rib from many becomes the Bride:/ While the earthy man is laid aside in lieu/ The Word made flesh is Last Adam indeed.
36.
The locus of saints made new, his view / Forever through the light of the Son,/ From heavenly places we serve you.
"And the Lord God commanded the man, saying, Of every tree of the garden thou mayest freely eat:/ But of the tree of the knowledge of good and evil, thou shalt not eat of it: for in the day that thou eatest thereof thou shalt surely die."
Adam is the son of God. ("Adam, which was the son of God,"- Luke 3:38) In the everlasting covenant man is created after our image and after our likeness.' In Trinity Adam was set down as the body. By breathing into his nostrils God made him a living soul.
Adam was free to eat of every tree of the garden, including the tree of life." His sin was in disobedience. So the tree of life judged him as it were. This judgment comes under the department of the son to whom God has decreed a day. (Ps.2:6-7)This is what the everlasting covenant presented in the first chapter of Genesis. Seven days are not literal days but its significance is in full harmony with the fulness of Jesus Christ. St Paul refers to it as consistent with God. (He is the visible image of the invisible God.) All things and by him consists. So seven days given refer to the covenant. Each day consists of God commanding as token of the divine Will and at the end of the verse,"And it was so."(Ge.1:7)
With this everlasting covenant in force all other covenants mentioned elsewhere, especially with Israel as a nation, are pendent on it. Similar days, hour ( silence for half an hour in heaven, for instance) are valid but is pendent to the everlasting covenant.
Genealogy of Adam however mentions body producing sons and daughters, of which we have holy family as well as that of the wicked Cain. Death that God referred in the key text is pertaining his soul.
The four beasts of which one had the face of man which could not be that of the disobedient Adam but that of Last Adam. The Spirit allows St Paul to refer Jesus Christ thus. Remnant of the nation of Israel will be included into the body to which Christ is the Head. They havebe new creation in him.
For your meditation
John 3:16-21
16 GOD so loved the world, that He gave His only begotten Son, that whosoever believeth in Him should not perish, but have everlasting life.
17 For GOD sent not His Son into the world to condemn the world; but that the world through Him might be saved.
18 He that believeth on Him is not condemned: but he that believeth not is condemned already, because he hath not believed in the NAME of the only begotten Son of GOD.
19 And this is the condemnation, that light is come into the world (GOD IS LIGHT), and men loved darkness rather than Light, because their deeds were evil.
20 For every one that doeth evil hateth the Light, neither cometh to the Light, lest his deeds should be reproved.
21 But he that doeth Truth cometh to the Light, that his deeds may be made manifest, that they are wrought in God.
May our Lord GOD hear your petition.
Romans 1:16-18
16 I am not ashamed of the gospel of Christ: for it is the power of GOD unto salvation to every one that believeth; to the Jew first, and also to the Greek.
17 For therein is the righteousness of GOD revealed from faith to faith: as it is written, The just shall live by faith.
18 For the wrath of GOD is revealed from heaven against all ungodliness and unrighteousness of men, who hold the Truth in unrighteousness;
May the Lord GOD bless you and your family
What I perceive from the belief of many now, that Israel ought to be considered a refused & cast-off people because of their rejection of their Messiah, is based wholly upon who the Church is now, those of believing Jews & Gentiles; that unbelieving Israel can have no part in this position & hope. To this point, I find agreement, that all who are unbelieving presently, whether Jew or Gentile, are judged with the same judgement.
But what of the Scriptures that point to the time when those of Israel still alive, see the 'One Whom they pierced' ( Revelation 1:7), that if Israel 'will no longer abide in unbelief, will be re-grafted in (along with other believers) ( Romans 11:23), & that 'salvation will still come to them in that future day as out of Sion shall come the Deliverer Who shall turn all ungodliness from Jacob' ( Romans 11:26)? This is still future and all about believing Israel & not Gentiles.
We shouldn't look at Israel now as a defeated, rejected people - sure, there still remains great hardship & tribulation ahead of them, and many will die an eternal death. But God has not forgotten His Covenant people & the time will come when those living will bend their knee to Jesus.
I guess I'd do better with a 10000 character limitation to these posts; although the reader may not have an appetite for that.
Anyway; another point here will fling to a common defence quoting Deuteronomy 29:29. Some things are hidden to us.
Feel free in dissenting viewpoints to doubt my compassion in making such harsh statements. I consider it necessary information.
The harsh reality is that none of us can bear in our natural minds to think of anyone lost and suffering eternal punishment. It seems to trigger a desire to find a believer and just ask for a hug or something for reassurance. We instinctually know as children to seek such comfort from a parent; but no human can offer any assurance that they will be there to greet us after they leave this earth from heaven or a "better place" in their imagination that is made up to substitute for God's atoning death and substitutionary redemption of His people. To take the example before of what a lost person would want those surviving on earth to know; surely a saved person would say something similar. The only example of that perhaps is when Samuel is disturbed by Saul; it ( 1 Samuel 28:15). It didn't go well for Saul; needless to say even if this really was Samuel's spirit risen from rest in the afterlife. We can be certain that those in heaven would feel sorry for us and think it odd or silly that we are feeling sad for them in some ways. Also we can realize that those spiritually dead but still LIVING on earth have no idea or concept of that fact; they cannot fathom anything LIVING that has passed from all they have known in this life with the body and all its 5 senses perished.
Maybe I'm focused more now than I've ever been watching my parents in their nineties whose bodies and minds are decaying.
God help all of us including myself not to hold onto one more day on earth because we want that more than being in His presence
Having as I usually do written something rather hastily I have taken certain chances as to not weighing carefully how this will affect people and attempt some subtlety. I could have bolstered this as a neater package with more careful and thorough scriptural framework. As I often do I am collecting further information "on the fly" and adding it to the original concept. Sorry if that unduly throws some people off.
The principle thing to be considered in all this is man's sin and it's cause his sin NATURE. When we hear of near death experiences and in fact many so called "Christian" experiences or testimonies for that matter it seems little is said of the matter. The best we seem to find is a reference to some particular sin that is tormenting someone or causing them; for instance to go to hell in an NDE. Any true "spiritual" experience should follow what God says of the Spirit in John 16:8-SIN; RIGHTEOUSNESS and JUDGMENT to come. We realize not so much from what we have done but by nature who we ARE; i.e. that STATE we are in. God's HOLINESS should cause us to be prostrate in fear; if it affected God's true prophets such as Daniel; John the "Revelator" and Isaiah those who are lost should really have a fear of the Lord if there has been any true revelation. Finally; of course we know that His judgment is coming. This means that hell primarily is a direct; proportional and FAIR distribution of punishment fitting for the crime. We will know that it is God's wrath; first and foremost whether or not demons are allowed to be involved in causing suffering for now in hades the holding place for hell. Perhaps that expresses my point a bit better.
On the other side of the coin; rather than our closest family members let us consider the vilest sinners; the scum of society.
Do we desire to see these despicable individuals transformed; enough to count the cost of our own comfort zones being violated? The world can't handle that either
There is no doubt that this series of posts is going to generate a lot of buzz; and some major backlash. I can only be as transparent as I can in regard to my past experience when it seemed I sensed the presence of my grandmother who now has been gone the better part of 40 years. I had a quick dream for a few seconds the night before she passed with me telling her she was about to stand before God. As far as I know she was unsaved. Even if there was some last minute repentance it isn't something I would have known about her. There was much surrounding her in terms of possessions and photos and things that I cannot have as keepsakes.
Again; for those who are saved it is in the new identity as a believer that one becomes part of the Body of Christ; this takes us from what in some sense is Satan's body; if not his dominion ( Eph. 2:2). To the lost world it would seem we lose our freedom; and our individuality in such an identity where we die to our old self. But there are many facets like a jewel which we are compared to in Malachi 3:17; the Lord has made us to uniquely minister in and through Him and we shall rule and reign with Him as well.
I did want to say if anyone is still reading this at this point that I believe children before they can understand sin will by God's grace enter heaven. Also when considering the only scriptural example we have of a lost man in hades; we see how he wanted to warn his family not to go there; hence we should in that sense be further emboldened to share the Gospel.
I am not here to try to convince anyone to think this way. On one hand Jesus said "let the dead bury their own dead" ( Luke 9:60); on the other hand someone who compassionately has taken care of a rebel all their life who passes certainly can mourn.
It is only when such a loss keeps us stunted permanently in our growth in God that we need to step back to evaluate ourselves.
A serious discussion about the mind and the state of our soul.
Some have described what they say are hell experiences where the same memory from the past goes over and over and demons are supposed to be putting thoughts in people's minds. I will say that it is possible that in the process of dying that people will see what they think is relatives and it is really demons; who sometimes reveal their true sinister nature as a person gets closer to death. It may even be possible that some demons who are now in what is in reality hades are authorized to torment people; but in the final judgment the demons themselves along with Satan face eternal suffering. What is likely is that in the second heavens so to speak entities try to affect the souls of men. Anyone who comes back to earth of course hasn't in reality had their final judgment or they wouldn't have returned.
I say all this to examine how a testimony about heaven would be even harder to come by; since what someone sees outside of the true doctrine of scripture is a lie; even if being sincerely narrated by someone. The enemy would love nothing less than to give some ethereal ecstatic experience to delude the person and spread further deception with some New Age concept so that men will stop fearing God and have a false assurance after leaving this earth. Therefore I want to make a major point.
Who a man is after salvation is a NEW man; the old has passed away ( 2 Cor. 5:17). A true believer would only WANT to be remembered in this way. This means for those who are unsaved we must rid ourselves of any affection or attribute once they have gone to the grave or we are GUARANTEED to have demons plant any pleasant thought as to sensing their presence around us. People are either in heaven or hell. This explains one big reason necromancy is against scripture. Often it is hard to know for sure if someone is saved in this life.
Romans 11:16-24 shows Israel as distinct from the Church: the "natural branches" are the Jews, and the "wild branches" are the Gentiles.
The "olive tree" is the collective people of God. The "natural branches" (Jews) are "cut off" the tree for unbelief, and the "wild branches" (believing Gentiles) are grafted in. This has the effect of making the Jews "jealous" and then drawing them to faith in Christ, so they might be grafted in again and receive their promised inheritance.
The natural branches are still distinct from the "wild branches," so that God's covenant with His people is literally fulfilled.
Romans 11:26-29, citing Isaiah 59:20-21 Isaiah 27:9; Jeremiah 31:33-34
Isaiah 62:11-12 "Behold, the LORD hath proclaimed unto the end of the world, Say ye to the daughter of Zion, Behold, thy salvation cometh; behold, his reward is with him, and his work before him.
And they shall call them, The holy people, The redeemed of the LORD: and thou shalt be called, Sought out, A city not forsaken.
Moses' prediction of Israel's permanent restoration to the land in Deuteronomy 30:1-10.
Moses said, "THE LORD YOUR GOD WILL CIRCUMCISE YOUR HEARTS!!
SO HOW WILL "ALL ISRAEL BE SAVED?
Zechariah 8-14 , which speak of end-times Israel at Christ's return.
The key verse describing the coming to faith of the future remnant of Israel is Zechariah 12:10.
This occurs at the end of the tribulation.
Also; Zechariah 8:7-8.
Israel will be regathered from the ends of the earth ( Isaiah 11:12.
Isaiah 62:10.
Zechariah 13:8-9
Isaiah 12:1-6 is their song of deliverance.
God bless.
Behold, what manner of love the Father hath bestowed upon us, that we should be called the sons of God: therefore the world knoweth us not, because it knew him not.
Beloved, now are we the sons of God, and it doth not yet appear what we shall be: but we know that, when he shall appear, we shall be like him; for we shall see him as he is. 1 John 3:1-2.
Two points worth mentioning.
1) Beloved, "now" are we the sons of God, ( Present tense!)
2) but we know that, when he shall appear, we shall be like him; When Christ appear for his purchased possession we shall be like him. Incomprehensible!
God bless you.
Every believer was called and has received gifts freely so we need understand that we are growing in our lives by faith and our works we do as natural extension of His grace. God sets Ezekiel as a watchman and by giving the word in the form of a roll he is to eat it. So it is the word that has to work. "And thou shalt speak my words unto them, whether they will hear, or whether they will forbear." This being the case we do according to the grace given and leave the Lord to deal with the rest. At the fag end of my life I work being confident that it is God who is in charge of my life.
We live in perilous times and the signs all are out. Weird climate, flashfloods, tornadoes wildfires makes breadbaskets blighted and plagues and pestilences ravage body and mind; those who made little of truth are fed by steady dose of misinformation and for those who rejected the truth the AI is a wakeup call. The imposter churches and their congregation shall have no hiding places except they receive the word of God as intended. Literalism has shown as inadequate. Knowing these I work to present daily what is revealed to me. So I leave it at that. With joy and peace in Him,
I accidentally sent that message before I finished.
I wanted to agree with Jema, ww should be able to have these discussions peacefully, not dwell on the past and push forward.
God bless you.
We both claim to present the truth and most of the time we can sort it out but I believe we use different means of interpretation, so that would make it nearly impossible on this topic.
I will be sharing more of my thoughts on this later.
Not of works, lest any man should boast." - Ephesians2:8,9,
Be encouraged knowing also that you're not alone, and we all have the same feelings and fight the good fight daily: " What shall we then say to these things? If God be for us, who can be against us?"
Blessings, in Jesus' name,
God blessed man who is created in 'our image and in our likeness'. This is part of the everlasting covenant. God has given the earth to man. Coming back to the key text, "The heaven, even the heavens, are the LORD's: But the earth hath he given to the children of men. (Ps.115:16) Fellowship of God with Man acknowledges no nation per se but man. so salvation plan of God at one level uses Trinity where God the Father sends his only begotten Son. ( John 3;16). Second we have the Word. John's Gospel begins with it. The Word was with God. Only begotten Son in the sense that God taking on human likeness lived among the children of men. "And the Word was made flesh, and dwelt among us, (and we beheld his glory, the glory as of the only begotten of the Father,) full of grace and truth."( John 1:14). "For there are three that bear record in heaven, the Father, the Word, and the Holy Ghost: and these three are one./And there are three that bear witness in earth, the Spirit, and the water, and the blood: and these three agree in one." ( 1 John 5:7-8). Whosoever believed in the Testimony of the Three were aligned in their body, soul and spirit.
Faith with works meant the testimony of blood shed by the Son worked in the believer. By baptism of water he established that he died to sin and the world. If this is the case what value one ought to attach to notions of the Gentiles or on Israel? By literalism the imposter church would legitimize Israel as a nation despite of the word of God has set down as the holy writ.
The outpouring of the Holy Spirit is another and it connects God with man through the Son of man whose Ascension as promised was freely given to him.
The earth was void and empty. The Spirit works with symbols so fire water rock and wind make the earth as a whole in 'our image and our likeness. National identity of Israel or the Gentiles has no place.
(1) they shall deliver you up to be afflicted, and shall kill you;
(2) and ye shall be hated of all nations for my name's sake;
(3) then shall many be offended;
(4) and shall betray one another;
(5) and shall hate one another.
(6) many false prophets shall rise, and shall deceive many.
(7) And because iniquity shall abound, the love of many shall wax cold.
The promise of our Lord JESUS
He that shall endure unto the END of the WORLD, the same shall be saved,
the gospel of the kingdom of GOD shall be preached in all the world for a witness unto all NATIONS;
Then shall the END come; So,
when ye therefore shall see the abomination of desolation, spoken of by Daniel the prophet, stand in the holy place-JERUSALEM-, (whoso readeth, let him understand: )
then shall be great tribulation, such as was not since the beginning of the world to this time, no, nor ever shall be.- Daniel 12:1-
except those days should be shortened, there should no flesh be saved: but for the elect's sake those days shall be shortened.
if any man shall say unto you, Lo, here is Christ, or there; BELIEVE NOT, - John 5:43-47-.
for there shall arise false Christs, and false prophets, and shall shew great signs and wonders( John 5:43-47 combined with Revelation 13:11-14-take a look- ; insomuch that, if it were possible, they shall deceive the very elect.
Behold, I have told you before.
Get ready