All Discussion PAGE 2949

Isn't a saved person someone whose heart has already been prepared? If the creator of the entire universe lives inside a person's heart, wouldn't that person be prepared and ready? And does a person have to read the New Testament before they can be saved? I'm trying to understand what you are saying. Please elaborate. Thank you!

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Mt 21:43. I've never associated this Scripture to the preaching of the Gospel first to Jerusalem & Judea. The Gospel was first to be brought to them as it should (God's care & concern for His people, the Jew, as well as preaching at home before radiating the Word to other nations). But that "the Kingdom of God shall be taken from you, and given to a nation bringing forth the fruits thereof", I understand that Israel was privileged to be God's chosen & to receive His Promises, but in their rejection ( Mt 31:33-41), their inheritance (the Kingdom of God) would no longer be their expectation, but to the nations that bring Him His fruits, unlike the husbandmen (in the parable) who did wickedly.

So the 'mystery' I refer to (unless it can be correctly shown in the OT), is something that was not revealed (whether in whole or in part), but which Paul has now shown to the Church. He may have received this revelation during his time in Arabia ( Gal 1:17), we're not sure. Nevertheless, this is something 'special' that is to happen to the Church that was unknown earlier, to which every believer can anticipate & longingly wait for.

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Bob, I take your point that in the case of Abraham, conversion of Gentiles in Esther's day, Laban & other numerous examples, there is a clear assimilation of Gentiles into Jewish lineage. However, when I refer to Paul's use of the word 'Mystery', this is not what I see. I see that he speaks only of the fact that both Jew & Gentile would one day be brought as one, as Christ's Church. We can't presume that the OT Scriptures about Gentile assimilation has any reference to the Church, even looking forward. Is there any OT Scripture that reveals this fact that Jew (& Gentile incorporation into Jewish lineage) would one day belong to the Church - that they should wait for the 'New Covenant' that would allow for their descendants to be an equal part of Christ's Church? The closest one is Jer 31:31-34 (cf Heb 8:8-11), but this only speaks of them entering into a New Covenant with the LORD, but not of the 'mystery' of incorporation into the Church. The revelation of Jesus through over 300 prophecies is not the mystery I refer to here.

Creation involves two types of seed....natural and spiritual...and each seed reproduces after its own kind...spiritual seeds reproduce in the spiritual realm, via faith....faith in what?

The word of God says, faith in the truth!

" confess" in Greek means to agree with another..

Check any concordance to verify this.

When Creation took place, God buried a lot of principles in what was created..ie laws like gravity,and others in physics, math, biology, etc, based on the principle " in the mouths of 2or3 witnesses every word is established

2Cor13:1

So if we agree with Him,we establish truth!

Jesus calmed the storm,and said to them " how is it you have no faith", implying that the disciples had the power to calm the storm. I've read scripture every day for 44 years( a miracle not done by me)

We've been translated out of the kingdom of darkness, into the kingdom of His son...implying we are in Jesus kingdom now!...wow!Do Christians believe that? No darkness in His kingdom!Col1:13

Our confession-agreement gives us power....but we need to believe.

I saw my son split an oncoming storm by declaring agreement with the Word...and I did the same in another place, another time

"A wholesome tongue is a tree of life, but perverseness therein is a breach in the spirit" Prov 15:4

Tree of life speaks of Jesus...what happens if we agree with Him? Do we establish "We haven't been given a spirit of fear,but of power, love and a sound mind" 2Tim 1:7

I rest my case!............ Neil

Who would you say Matthew wrote his gospel to? I say he wrote it to the Hebrew/Jewish people. Yes, Christ was speaking to His disciples, but who were they, Jews or Gentiles? Yes, Mark was written first. Out of the 661 verses in Mark, Matthew has 500 of them, almost word for word. It shows that Matthew was following Mark's Gospel as a template for his writings. But he still wrote his gospel to the Jewish people. Matthew alludes to or presents over 60 references to the Old Testament, more than double of any other gospel writer because he is using these things to show the Jews that Jesus came, and he shows the fulfillment of the scripture that Jesus fulfilled, showing them, the Jews, that Jesus was the Messiah. There are so many things that Matthew wrote that only a Jew would be able to understand. During Jesus' 3 year ministry, do you think that all those who were following Him were a mixture of both Jew and Gentile? Were they even allowed to intermingle together at that time?



I believe the day of the Lord only covers the last 3-1/3 years, known as the Great Tribulation. And I do not think I ever said that God's wrath embraces the entire 7 year period. As for resurrection, I know Lazarus was resurrected. When Jesus died and went into the lower parts of the earth, He took with Him all the believers that were in that part of Hades, Abraham's Bosom. I would see that as a resurrection. Here is my understanding. The Lord will come for His church, the dead in Christ will rise first (resurrection), and then we which are alive with be caught up to meet them, and Him in the air. This is not the Lord's second coming. This is Him coming to remove His church from the wrath to come. At His second coming, He will literally step foot onto the Mount of Olives. That is His second coming. And He will rule and reign for 1,000 years. There will be another resurrection after the 1,000 year reign. That resurrection will be for the wicked. They will be cast into the lake of fire (Hell).

Matthew 24:2 was partly fulfilled in 70 AD when Rome destroyed the temple in Jerusalem and Matthew 24:30 is yet to happen, so it is future. saying all Matthew 24 is past or all is future is wrong. Oftentimes there is a partial fulfillment of Bible prophecy and then a future complete fulfillment. You could hit youtube search for End Times Matthew 24 Revealed

or something along those lines. I hope that helps.

Hi Carlos, thanks for your response. Ok, since you retracted that you think all Christians are afraid I appreciate that. You added a bunch of questions about freewill. That's interesting that you seem unfamiliar with scriptural support for that or why you would think you don't have it. You can find verses by Google searching that. You ended by saying to not be afraid. I'm not afraid, are you? I'm not sure why you assume emotions of others. Take care.

In Micah 1:14, WHO is Moreshethgath? Is that an idol or god of the people?

we are baptized into Christ (not by water) but by the Spirit the moment we believe!

1 corinthians 12:13 For by one Spirit are we all baptized into one body, whether we be Jews or Gentiles, whether we be bond or free; and have been all made to drink into one Spirit.

Galatians 20 I am crucified with Christ: nevertheless I live; yet not I, but Christ liveth in me: and the life which I now live in the flesh I live by the faith of the Son of God, who loved me, and gave himself for me.

Ephesians 1:12-14 That we should be to the praise of his glory, who first trusted in Christ. In whom ye also trusted, after that ye heard the word of truth, the gospel of your salvation: in whom also after that ye believed, ye were sealed with that holy Spirit of promise,Which is the earnest of our inheritance until the redemption of the purchased possession, unto the praise of his glory.

Matthew 24: chapter is it about the past present, or future?

1 John Chapter 5:10 He that believeth on the Son of God hath the witness in himself: he that believeth not God hath made him a liar; because he believeth not the record that God gave of his Son.

11 And this is the record, that God hath given to us eternal life, and this life is in his Son.

12 He that hath the Son hath life; [and] he that hath not the Son of God hath not life.

John 3:36 He that believeth on the Son hath everlasting life: and he that believeth not the Son shall not see life; but the wrath of God abideth on him.

There is only one door and that is Jesus, I do not care what anyone says they are a Jew and if they do not have Christ they are under the wrath of God eternally.

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Was the Tree of KoGaE a corrupt tree, as you have said? I simply don't believe so. It was in God's Design & was perfect. However, it was their wrong choice in partaking of its delights that opened their eyes to know good & evil. Could Jesus be tempted to sin & sin? No, the temptation was there, but Satan's encounter with Jesus was to cause a sin nature to become a part of Jesus' Being so that Jesus would fail as God's Son & Sacrifice. So we get back to God's Design in sending His Son into a corrupt world & back to A & E: God wanted to shield them from that trait of knowing the difference between good & evil becoming a part of them as they were 'wholly good, obedient & without sin'. But they chose unwisely under Satan's appeal to the only route 'into them' available to him, i.e. their power of choice. Did God know that was going to happen? For sure, or else He wouldn't be God. I couldn't align your illustrations of an earthly scenario of weeds, bad trees & trash as contradictions of a perfect condition - not the same as Eden, different because corruption is already in existence.

You state, "The world they were created into was flawed". I find that very difficult to grasp since God does not create things purposely with a flaw or blemish just to achieve His Design & Purpose. The world wasn't flawed at first, but became corrupt with the introduction of sin. And yes, God knew this would happen, but it was not a part of the Perfect Design; I would say it was a part of His Perfect Knowledge & His Whole Plan into Eternity allowed for it. To the 'Tree' again: you state, "it (Eden) had a very bad, corrupt Tree right smack in the middle of it". Sorry, I see absolutely nothing wrong with the tree, or any of the trees/plants in Eden. If so, when they ate of it, they should have perished from the poison, or at least had some major medical issues, but the fruit appeared enticing to the eyes/flesh & delicious to the taste. Tree was good - choice was bad.

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Carlos, thank you for your comments: it seems that we are narrowing down in our understanding on this. So, I do agree that the potential was there for all creation to be susceptible to corruption, so I will focus now on 'defining perfection'.

Of course, we must agree to the fact that God Himself is Perfect in every way. Could we dare say that He could be corrupted? God forbid to even suggesting this, except for this purpose of understanding the matter. Therefore, he made man (& the heavenly host) in perfection (i.e. in a perfect world & man from 'perfect' dust). I can't fathom that any of God's creative Work could be anything else than perfect, or God (as we know Him from the Word) isn't God. Yes, the potential to corruption is there, but God's design & execution of creation was without flaw.

You said, "They (A & E) were not created perfect because, from my perspective, something perfect, free will or not, would not make the wrong choices". We're made in God's Image & by His Hand. But He gave us as part of that Design, the ability to choose, as is a part of His Nature. Has God the power of choice? Yes. If that were not so, Adam/Eve would just obey God unquestioningly, going about their earthly business & routine without ever making decisions over anything that came up to them: true perfection indeed! But God's design included the ability to choose & Satan seeing this, came to 'road test' this Divine Work (I think of Job, as well). Did God bring Satan? No, Satan did according to his charater: to oppose the Most High & all that are associated with Him. (onto Page 2)

Robert Marino, your post is worth repeating below.

"It's that simple. Get ready. Prepare your heart. These things were written to Christ's followers, not those who dont' even read the New Testament. It will be too late for them when everything hits the fan to start reading about preparing. Too late then. Jesus knew what was coming on those 7 churches in Asia Minor and gave them warning, encouragement, exhortation and rebuke. The modern lukewarm church in America is not going to get raptured when it needs purified much more than any other century. It is very important to keep our hearts right and have Jesus as our first love."

Adam, there are 2 parts to my response to Chris on creation. If you saw Page 1, I'll assume you saw Page 2. You bring up some worthy issues. Thanks for telling me about the reply button. I didn't mean to imply that all Christians are afraid. But we ought to interpret the Bible literally where it calls for it.

If all you got from my responses is that I think parts of the Bible are untrue, you missed the point. I don't believe any of the Bible is untrue. And yes, I am uncomfortable with a literal interpretation where it doesn't belong. But your troubled, accusatory response is what makes me think some Christians fear an honest examination of the Genesis Creation account, without preconceptions. Why would it upset you that I argue that not all the Genesis account is to be taken literally?

If there is in fact no symbolism in Gen 1-3, you shouldn't be troubled by it. You yourself say that only 61% of Christians polled think the Genesis account is literal. That means 39% don't. As we approach a study of Genesis we must Keep an open mind.

I don't know everything about creation, but it is clear that there are things that are unrealistic, if taken literally in the Bible. One such thing has to do with plucking your eye out. And when did God give you direct confirmation that you are the arbiter of Biblical Hermeneutics? I would encourage you and everyone else to examine Genesis 1-3 in light of what I wrote in my response to Chris.

You say, "God made Adam and Eve perfect + gave them freewill." Many people believe that because that is what they were taught to believe. But where does the Bible say we were created Perfect and with a Free Will? What exactly does it mean to have Free Will? Can a man have the ability to choose without having a Free Will? Do animals have Free Will? Can they choose to eat or not to eat? Have you ever told a dog not to do something and he does it anyway? Can you love without Free Will? Can you be obedient without it? Don't be afraid, Adam.

Agreement in prayer for Evelyn Roberts, a 98 yr old woman who has been diagnosed with covid. She Is currently in a nursing home with very little support or family. Speaking healing, great care, the LORDs wisdom for those making choices and decisions about her care, God's peace and comfort, loosing and releasing angels and ministering spirits, good sleep for mind body soul

Jesus die for our sins,so that we might have a chance at the tree of life. Jesus knew all of what was expected of him; that's why God sent his only begotten son to do what the first Adam couldn't do. Jesus couldn't lie,that why no guile was found in his mouth. Jesus is the truth then and forever. We murdered him because of the truth. And we still don't want to be told the truth, because we have itchy ears. How is it that we accept lies why do hurt us and not the truth?

God has change my life so much and I am thankful for that

It's that simple. Get ready. Prepare your heart. These things were written to Christ's followers, not those who dont' even read the New Testament. It will be too late for them when everything hits the fan to start reading about preparing. Too late then. Jesus knew what was coming on those 7 churches in Asia Minor and gave them warning, encouragement, exhortation and rebuke. The modern lukewarm church in America is not going to get raptured when it needs purified much more than any other century. It is very important to keep our hearts right and have Jesus as our first love.

Good grief, I've been following this conversation from the very beginning, but it seems to be heading south!

I'm assuming you are taking the entire chapter? Verses 5-13 talk about giving. In V.5, the emphasis is the word friend.

To understand V.6, in the Middle Eastern custom, it was very hospitable to have bread and food waiting for visitors no matter when they came. That would be the Middle Eastern custom thing to do. And he says, he came at midnight and he journeyed. And he came and I have nothing to put in front of him.

V.7: The person inside says four things: Number 1: stop troubling me: He sounds like my house if somebody knocked on my door at midnight wanting bread. Secondly: the door is now shut, that means that it is barred closed. And my children are with me in bed;

You may have heard of the family bed. It is a Middle Eastern custom. They would close the door, and how they would keep warm is they would all get into one bed. As a matter of fact, on evenings when it is was real cold, they would bring the livestock in, not in bed, but in the same room, just to get them indoors.

Fourthly: he says I cannot rise and give to you. We are all in bed, we are all warm, lights out, door closed, and you are knocking on my door and you are saying you want bread. It won't happen!

Verse 8: Jesus said, I say unto you, though he will not rise and give to him, because he is his friend, yet because of his importunity, and that is a big word! In the Greek, it means shameless persistence. There's no shame in this man. He's going to keep pounding on the door until you get up and give him what he wants. "You only want 3, I'll give you 7. Just go home, leave me alone."

Carry that thought over because people say that's what you need to do with God. You need to be persistent, nag Him. Make Him give you what you are praying for!

But if I may suggest to you that the Lord is not teaching about comparison. He's teaching about contrast. If you as human beings, if somebody is knocking on your door, you will get up and give it to them just to get rid of them. But God is not that way!

Adam, I think that the verses you have cited reflect that while God acts freely, His purpose, His promises and His Plan do not change. He destroyed the world, but kept Noah. God is in control of everything, and as Romans 9 says, Who can say to Him, why did you make me this way?

While Jonah 3:10 and 1 Samuel 15:29 might seem contradictory, they are not. For a better understanding of these verses, we have to take them in context. The things said in the Bible are presented in human terms, so we can understand them better.

But I agree, on the surface, they may seem problematic.

Hello, most Christians disagree with this. God made Adam and Eve perfect + gave them freewill. The creation was perfect, but they chose to sin under their own freewill. The sin reflects on Adam and Eve's own decisions, not God's. God didn't create robots. If he did would robots meet the definition of 'perfect' to you? If your own kids were robots would you consider that perfect too? Others find deeper meaning if they have freewill and CHOSE to say 'I love you dad' under their own decision, rather than being forced to say it artificially. Earth is a place to choose good or evil, to choose if you want to follow God or not. Freewill is a very loving gift to have and that gift is perfect. What we choose to do ourselves is what is imperfect and isn't right to blame that on God. Take care.

Well Jesse, let me tell you things God can use to change your mind. Or maybe He will change mine. I share your understanding of what Matthew says, but not that it is directed to Jews. Christ was speaking to His Disciples, therefore to all of us that follow Him. It is believed that the Gospel of Mark was written 1st and both Matthew and Luke used it as a basis for theirs, to include specific details. Matt 24 is the same as Lk 21 and Mark 13. But Paul, who spoke to the Gentile Churches, says exactly the same thing in 2 These 2. And the imagery in the OT, 1 These 4 and Revelation is the same concerning the Coming and the Rapture. You can't have the same events taking place for the Rapture, that are the same for the Coming, unless they are one and the same.

A mistake made is to think of the entire Tribulation period as the Day of the Lord or Day of Wrath. If you read Revelation carefully, the language identifies these at taking place at the last hour of the Great Tribulation. And if you outline the events, you find there is a progression of the Seals, Trumpets and Bowls of His Wrath that place the Bowls at the end of the end of the end. The Seals are opened and at the last Seal, Trumpets are introduced. Then at the last trumpet, the Bowls of Wrath are poured. So, Wrath doesn't embrace the entire 7 years period.

It is that last Bowl of Wrath, at the last Trumpet, in the last Seal, that we will be spared from. That's when we are called to meet Christ in the air. And as Bob Hilt pointed out, there are only 2 resurrections. Think about that.

Amen. come lord jesus. maranatha.

Chris, you say, "Adam & Eve were not created in corruption, rather they were created perfect, had a free will but chose wrongly." I partially agree. But I add, they were created in an existence susceptible to the potential of corruption. I disagree that they were created perfect and made a wrong choice.

They were not created perfect because, from my perspective, something perfect, free will or not, would not make the wrong choices. Something capable of making wrong choices is not perfect. You can't make an unsinkable boat that sinks. It is a logical contradiction. For man to have been created perfect, he had to have been created with a perfect will. A car with an engine that can break immediately after you turn it on, is not a perfect car. In the case of Adam and Eve, they lacked the ability to distinguish between good and evil. That inability is what got them into trouble.

Perfection is defined as the absence of fault or defect, with total accuracy and maturity. Adam didn't meet that standard. God did declare them good, but it was in terms of God's Purpose. They were perfectly suited for Christ.

The world they were created into was flawed. The Garden was not perfect. Why? Because it had a very bad, corrupt Tree right smack in the middle of it. Is a garden full of weeds a perfect garden? Would you like to live in a house by a stream that stinks of perdition? Not a perfect setting for a house, is it? So why did God put Adam in this beautiful Garden, then dropped a bomb on him? Wait a minute, you might complain. I just moved into this brand new house and you are going to build a mountain of trash, a dump, right next to my back yard? What is wrong with that picture? So God plants this Tree in my yard, then tells me to stay away from it? What's up with that? Sorry God, you might say, but couldn't you take that stinky Sycamore and bury it in the coldest depths of the Martian landscape? Why here?

Oops! Sorry Adam. I didn't realize you were so sensitive.

Prayer for marriage healing mental abuse and trauma from childhood teenage years adult hood mental prison of my imperfections such us scars on 50% of body,teeth falling , vision blurry, gall stones, high blood pressure, cholesterol, vitamin D lacking, pre diabetes once in a while, head hurt, over weight, and many more just at age 33 I feel like I am stuck no where to go no one to tell with out being judge but I can count on someone that is our Jesus Christ that he hold me promise me that he will heal me and love me just the way I am I pray that everyone going through trauma and mental prison and are going through tough times that someone is their for you that is Jesus Christ that he will never change and he promise a way out just like when he promise Noah, Jacob, Moses and everyone else in the Bible he is the same one today tomorrow for eternity and he doesn't stop will never stop and will always protect us in any shape or form on what ever we go through we can't see his plan but we will some day we are not perfect but we will be one day when we enter he's presence in Jesus name I pray deliverance and may this fleshly fight be fought with wisdom and our knees and tears to the glory of Our Lord that he is hearing us and he knows what we go through let's put our armor and our eyes towards our father Amen.

Type this title PRE-TRIB RAPTURE: TRUE OR FALSE? in the youtube search. I should be the only one with this name. highlight, copy and paste it into the youtube browser so you had all the spacing right.

I'm just getting the channel started and learning the software so bear with me. It would be great if you subscribe and also take the two minute survey and maybe pass it on to others to take. I'm trying to do a survey on end times that has never been done. You can put your answers in the comments section or email them. I'm not going to say I know it all as none of us do. But I have put 5 to 7 years into really studying the history of the view I held to for over 30 years to find some serious problems. I hope to help others see these same truths.

Hope to have you on board.

(Read it real real slow)

It was PROPHESY. It all happened as the Godhead Wrote it. Through Jesus's suffering He set the new Covenant in motion until the mystery be completed: until the fullness of the Gentiles.

Romans 11:11 ...have they stumbled that

they should fall? God forbid: but rather

through their fall...salvation is come

unto the Gentiles (WHY?) for to provoke

them (the JEWS) to jealousy.

For if the casting away from them be THE

RECONCILING of the WORLD...what shall be

the the RECEIVING of them be...but life

from the dead?

Verse 26: AND SO ALL ISRAEL SHALL BE SAVED

Verse 27: For this is MY COVENANT unto them (Israel) , WHEN I shall take away their sins.

Verse 28: As concerning the gospel (birth, life, death, resurrection of Jesus) They are enemies (now) FOR YOUR SAKES (us).

BUT as touching the election, they are BELOVED for the fathers sakes (plural) Deuteronomy 9:5.

They're OUT now, and we are IN. God did that all by Himself. Didn't need any of us to debate the soundness of His Decision. Why indeed should any of us Gentiles shed a tear for millions of Jews who were murdered?

Well, they were on the OUTS so it's ok?

Romans 11:8. According as it is written, God hath given them a spirit of slumber;

Eyes that they should not see, and ears that they should not hear....unto THIS DAY.

Everyone is going to give an account for every idle word that has come out of the mouth.

Once more I will try: God is dealing with Israel. He doesn't need our help. We should be grateful, because us Gentiles are being blessed huge because God has Israel off in a corner wondering why so many Gentiles are in love with Jesus, and follow him around like a flock of sheep. That was a positive statement. They are jealous. They are OUT. We are IN.

Soon, God is going to bring them in again.

Robert Marino, How do we find you in YouTube?