All Discussion PAGE 2952

Chris, there are really 3 words. Plan, Purpose and Foreknowledge. Although they are all closely related, let me start with a definition Foreknowledge, although you're probably already familiar with it. I think, and I have adopted the position of the Reformers, because it is the most appropriate. Foreknowledge, as used in the Bible, is more closely associated with 'Pre-Ordination'. Acts 2:23 says God delivered Christ up by the determined counsel and foreknowledge of God.

Some ascribe it to God's intuition or omniscience. But there are philosophical, theological and historical issues with it. What God knows will be a historical fact or event, He can't change. Why? Because if God knows something, He knows it to be fact. If God 'knows' Christ is going to die on the Cross and something, God Himself changes it, then He was mistaken. What we can say He knew is that Christ was going to be crucified, but He changed it to something else.

Instead, God tells us in Isa 44-48 that He can do things at that moment. So, God knows things about what is going to happen and He tells us about them, not because He is somehow intuitively aware of the Future, but because He planned it that way. That is how He wanted it to happen. Rom 8, Isa 46:10-13.

God doesn't just know beforehand what is going to happen, He makes it happen that way. When God said Esau would serve Jacob, He also said that's the way He intended it. That was His doing, not a natural consequence of events He just happened to be aware of beforehand. The argument is that limiting God to 'Foreknowledge' about the Future, limits Him. Why? Because He could only do what He knows He is going to do, not what He wants to do.

Acts 4:28, They did what your power and will had decided beforehand should happen.

That said, the fact that God is Omniscient cannot be denied or diminished. But to argue that 1,000 years is like a day, to support Omniscience, takes the verses out of context Ps 90:4. Reference is to speed of time.

my response is u just need to read the kjv bible it includes all races and loves them all and if you carefullly study jesus

he was of what race or color do u thnik

In reply to Eliot on I Peter 2:1. To trust in the Lord is to have faith in Him and His ability to feed you, faith is good, as it is faith alone that saves. But please do not think that God expects you to sit around and do nothing and wait for Him to put food on your plate, as faith is only evidenced by works; works which you have done in planting the garden by which He will feed you.

To do otherwise is presumption, and presumption is the devils counterfeit for faith, notice the devils temptation of Jesus in the wilderness.

"Then the devil taketh Him up into the holy city, and setteth Him on a pinnacle of the temple, and saith unto Him, If Thou be the Son of God, cast Thyself down: for it is written, "He shall give His angels charge concerning Thee: And in their hands they shall bear Thee up, Lest at any time Thou dash Thy foot against a stone."

The devil tempted the Lord to show His faith by casting Himself to the ground from the top of the temple, but to do so would have been presumption, even though the Scriptures declares that the Father would have prevented Him from "dashing his foot against a stone."

It is not possible that we should entertain the idea that Jesus was lacking in faith; Jesus declared to Satan, "It is written again, Thou shalt not tempt the Lord thy God."

Jesus refused to go outside the path of obedience, and He would not force Providence to come to His rescue.

By your planting the garden to provide for your needs as well as for those of your children, you have shown perfect trust in the Lord, for it is now that He can work in giving the increase, and providing the food for your needs.

if my people which are called by my name shall humble themselves and pray and seek my face and turn from thier wicked ways then will i hear from heaven and i will forgive their sin and heal their land 2 chronicals 7 14

James Cardozo: we weren't to mark up our bodies. Back then it was probably more likely to get infections; there were no antibiotics. And like now, if you want to get some taken off, I'm guessing it's expensive?

In the 1960's, we had gatherings in the park and PAINTED each other, made hats of flowers.... the "all you need is love" generation. The first generation to let their kids raise themselves.

Every generation since then has had to reach farther and deeper to be cool or weirder than their parents...who gradually stopped following God, to follow that greenback in the sky :/ The LOVE of money is the ROOT of all evil. We can't take it with us, you know? Live simpler - less problems.

Isaiah 8:19-20. I'm gonna preach it again: wizards that PEEP and MUTTER are not God. We run to godless Google to look for answers 19 times a day. Computers and all the amazing electronics are not your friends. We're being tracked with cookies and by data miners. How did Isaiah see this? The Holy Ghost ratted out the future.

Get tracked for following God! Search the scriptures! See what other gems of wisdom are laying right there for us to trip over.

Don't you see? The spirit of Antichrist is already here. We're all being tracked. If we take The Mark of the Beast, we're already dead. Tattoos aren't the mark of the BEAST. You're going to be ordered to take it in your hand or upon your forehead... so you can use your money. You're going to be forced to worship him as if he was god. The REAL God, almighty God will not receive you into the Kingdom with that mark! You're dead, remember?

Now you have a responsibility to preach this truth to your friends. HUGE difference between a tattoo and a EVIL mark from Antichrist. He, false prophet and Satan are all headed for the Lake of Fire. It's not a beach you know.

Quit sinning now, Run to Jesus and be born again!! Have your name written in the Lambs book of LIFE. Tell your friends you are SAVED !

please pray for me and my husband we are experiencing spiritual attacks as we reach out and minister

Why isn't this verse being associated with Israel's rebirth Mathew 24:34, along with Jesus' comment regarding "as in the days of Noah" in Mathew 24:37. Additionally, Daniel 12:4 says "knowledge will increase" and Daniel 12:10 says "the wise shall understand." Modern Biological, medical, and Nutritional experts say human body can live 120 years when taken care ofproperly.

Carlos,

I don't recall saying that Matthew Chapter 24 is the only chapter that was written for the Jews. However, I did say that the entire book of Matthew was written to the Hebrew/Jewish people, Matthew himself also being Jewish. I also know that from Hebrews to the end of Revelation, that section of the bible is known as Jewish Literature. I don't personally know any Jewish people myself, but I believe there are many who have come to know the Lord and I can only assume they read the words of Jesus. Did Jesus need to say this is for the Jews for us to know who He was speaking to? I don't see anywhere in His teachings where He says this is to the Gentiles either. I've already agreed with you that Christ's second coming is after the 7 Year Tribulation.

I still see the message Jesus is giving in Matthew 24 and 25 as being a warning to the nation of Israel, the Jews, to watch for those things. If I have Christ living in me, I have already been made ready. While the unbelieving world is going through a horrendous time of wrath on this earth, I will be at the wedding feast with the Lord until I return with Him at His second coming. As I mentioned in my previous reply, we differ in our understanding of the timing of the rapture. I respect your view, and I'm not trying to convince you to change it. And in all fairness to you, I hope that you would not to spend too much of your time and effort trying to change my view.

My view can be changed, but it will take the Lord to change it. All I can do here is share my understanding with others. That's all any of us here can do. It is nice to have a forum where we can share our understanding, even if we don't agree with each other? God's word alone is truth. It's not what I say that is truth, and not what you say that is truth. I take what people say and I have respect for what they share, but I have an obligation to search the scriptures, and I do.

My daughter in law Kim has 2 tumors on her liver. Please pray that God heals her. She is so scared and has a young daughter. She will be having an MRI and biopsy.

Jesus wrote this gospel, Jesus son of Sirach. This gospel is a minor gospel plus this is the 2nd cousin of our savior and god Christ, Jesus Christ.

Are you saying there's a rapture

Hello Carlos,

I'll be quick in my response. First of all, I know that Matthew was written to Hebrew or Jewish people. And I am not saying that we as Gentiles cannot find value in it, as there are many teachings that we can benefit from. But it was written to the Jews. Secondly, I am not going to engage back and forth with you on the timing of the rapture, as our last discussion thread got shut down by the moderators of this site.

I believe in a pre-tribulation rapture and you believe otherwise. I respect that. No issues here. Wouldn't it be nice if every single believer believed the exact same thing? But that will never happen. As far as commentaries go, there are many out there. I read commentaries from time to time, and there are so many of them out there. But no matter what topic you look up, not all commentaries agree with each other. So which commentaries should we believe, only the ones that match our own understanding?

I do appreciate having conversations with you. We're not always going to agree with each other, but I'm sure there are some things we can agree on?

You have shared a lot of deep insight to think about. Thanks, Chris.

Good stuff, Mishael.

John Mark was related to the high priest. ( Acts 4:6) John Mark followed Jesus to the high priest's house and was allowed to go in with Jesus into the high priest's house. ( John 18:15) John Mark was wealthy and had a house in Jerusalem where the disciples met ( Acts 12:12) and where Jesus celebrated Passover and that is why John Mark sat at the head of the table next to Jesus. ( John 13:23) John Mark is given the responsibility to take care of Mary. ( John 19:27)

Remember James and John, the sons of Zebedee, are always mentioned together.

Wow dude. Awesome! We WILL go through tribulation and anyone teaching otherwise will be seen as a false teacher/prophet/pastor when the time comes.

Why do we need oil in Matthew 25:1-13? Oil is need to make light. Why do we need light? It is going to get really dark for the true believers.

Matthew 24 and 25 are for the 70 AD generation and our generation. The Christians at the time living in Jerusalem and those in the 7 churches of Asia Minor needed to read these things for during their time to encourage them to not give up just as Jesus said to be ready in our time. It's a Dual Prophecy. Mostly fulfilled in the first century, partially fulfilled in all centuries after and will climax like a mother giving birth in our last generation.

Can you take my poll on my new youtube channel?

I wold appreciate it if you could and anyone else you can get to take it. It takes about 2 minutes to fill out.

People who race onward and do not carefully read each word on the creation of Adam and Eve, will miss out on the greater revelation.

Genesis 2:7 And the Lord formed (mould) man of the DUST of the ground and breathed into his nostrils the breath of life; and man became a living soul.

Genesis 1:27. So God created man in his own image, in the image of God created he him: male and female. Genesis 2:22

Genesis 1:28 And God blessed them, and God said unto them, Be fruitful and multiply, and replenish the earth, and subdue it: and have DOMINION over the fish of the sea, and over the fowl of the air, and over every living thing that moveth upon the earth.

GOD DID NOT give Adam dominion over OTHER men or women!

Just like everyone else that has lived prior and now, OUR COLOR came from the same dust.

Genesis 11:1-9 is the account of the Tower of Babel; which was for evil by Nimrod. God changed the language of the people from one to many. The Lord scattered them all over the earth. Nothing is said further about races or colors. It happened back in the dust God used. Adams name in original text means, RED. That doesn't mean Adam was Native American.

You have full cause to be at peace with the color your ancestors were. Who knows what color Moses was, but he married a woman from Midian, which was predominantly dark skinned. His sister Miriam made a protest about it and God afflicted her with leprosy for a while. Numbers chapter 12.

God hates racism of any kind.

Before God the creator, no one has ever had a right to persecute people of color. If they were reading the Bible rightly, they would know that; in their hearts.

Satan has used his WILL to enter in and pervert the truth. People bought into it and it's been this color versus that color ever since.

God is Spirit. The Holy Spirit is Spirit. Jesus is the Son of Man. (He has color)

Believe the Bible, pass it forward. I thank God we're not all the same color! :D

Hi Chris, Some good things you said there. What I am trying to get people to see is that 1. rapture is a verb not a noun but I understand in our day and age we made it a noun and that is what we are used to saying.

But I see those words UNTO the COMING in there. And if we are alive and REMAIN (SURVIVE IN THE GREEK) UNTO (MEANING RESERVED) the COMING how are we already gone? The word coming is parousia which is the literal physical coming of Christ to earth to set up his kingdom. Why are we ignoring that word? Did God make a mistake?

Can you do me a favor and take my poll on my new youtube channel PRE-TRIB RAPTURE: TRUE OR FALSE? I couldnt' find any poll like this ever done. I'm trying to figure out why we in America came to certain beliefs. It will take two minutes to fill out in the comments section.

thanks,

Bob

Hi Bob,

That seems right on to me. How did we all miss that? The tares are gathered before the wheat. Seems to me we have gone to God's Word with a lot of presuppositions from things we were taught early on in our walks. As far as I can tell, the tares are still here so HOW CAN THEY BE LEFT BEHIND if they are taken first? Help me see this.

I think all you men are doing a great job of getting people to think about end time events! Also to pass it on to family and friends.

Jesus said for us to WATCH. Be looking for Him. Be ready. Be born again now. Lovingly witness to everyone you want " inside the Ark with you". Jesus IS the Ark. Every time someone came by & asked Noah what he was doing, he preached Salvation to them.

Only difference is that next time will be by Fire. We are supposed to preach these realities, that you know already.

The earth is readying. It's warming up. In Job you see that God has storehouses of hail stones. Every year we experience floods, huge forest fires, drought, wicked storms. If you watch the govt earthquake center, you will see places being rocked every day with size increased tremors. Especially in areas that are being fracked.

I'm praying that everyone is aware of these realities. There are people that think they can just "ride it out". Why not instead be ready to go with Jesus? Now.

1 Corinthians 12:31, 13:2, 14:1, 3, 5. I don't think it's useful to get bogged down in tongues again. Paul is saying that to PROPHESY (speak forth the Word of God) is more useful. The Holy Spirit watches over His Word.

You have a whole room in here with people dropping by to hear something from God. They have problems, they're frightened, they suspect that "this Bible stuff" may have some truth to it. These are Jesus's sheep and lambs! If you're not a shepherd, then you're a sheep. I remind myself often what Ezekiel was told in chapters 2 & 3. We are accountable for what we say or write. It's serious business. If you get unction to warn others...it is probably God. Habakkuk 2:2-3

I love the book of Genesis. You have to read it very slowly. Things in chapter 1 will be picked up again in 2 or 3, with additional information. Satan was a snake. Eve knew not to eat the fruit, but she wanted to have the knowledge. She was tempted with food.

Like us sometimes.

You seem to believe in an unfulfilled 7 years in Daniel 9?

I used to till I realized Jesus died int he middle of the 70th week because of that word AFTER in the previous verse. Then I looked up Bible commentaries pre-1830 to find that almost all taught the same thing.

First 7 weeks or 49 years were fulfilled.

Then the 62 weeks or 434 years.

Then verse 26 says AFTER the 62 weeks but the 7 or 49 years are already fulfilled in the prophecy so Jesus didn't die before the 70th week but during.

We have turned the Messiah, context of the passage, into a future antichrist. This was never taught until 15 year old Margarette McDonald had her vision and prophetic utterance (big time charismatic/Irvingite) in 1829/1830.

At best, we have a 3 1/2 years to be fulfilled but I see it as fulfilled in 70AD because the Great Revolt lasted exactly 42 months and answers the WHY of General/Prince Titus in verse 26.

I do believe in a Dual Prophecy interpretation. What I mean by that most of 2/3rds of Matthew 24 was historically fulfilled AND much of that chapter was spoken to THAT generation but something similar will happen AGAIN in a fuller way, on a worldwide scale. For example, the word world (oikenume) in Matthew 24 means Roman Empire and the apostles did preach the gospel to the whole world (oikenume) by 70 AD so they fulfilled that but if you take a FULL preterist approach that is just as dangerous as taking a full futurist approach to scripture.

The word parousia in 1st Thess. 4:13-18 is the 2nd coming literally to earth. Paul puts the catching away (harpazo) AFTER the dead in Christ rise which is obviously THE resurrection and a twinkling of an eye BEFORE the physical return of Christ to establish His millennial reign. You should subscribe to my new youtube channel.

Jesse, in addition to what I previously mentioned, the teaching that Matt 24, and no other Chapter in the NT, is for the Jews, is not supported by the narrative. Additionally, how many Jews that you know of read or pay attention to the words of Jesus? And if it were the case it was for Jews, why didn't Jesus say, "This is for the Jews. But I will be coming for you before that. So don't even worry about it."?

Jesus, Paul, Peter and John tell us about the Second Coming, but never mention a pre-appearance. Why? The only direct reference we have, and it comes from the Source Himself, Jesus, is in Matt 24:29. Jesus said, Immediately After the Great Tribulation.

If there is a Clandestine Appearance, Jesus and the rest of the Bible are totally silent on it.

Make a note of this. Every reference to Christ's return uses the same language; The Moon, Sun, Trumpet, Clouds, Gathering, Shout, White Robes, Saints, Thief in the Night: expressions associated with the Coming.

But why is knowing when Christ comes so important? Is it just information? It is important as a warning to the Church to prepare, to be ready, not just for His coming, but for the Tribulation. How often do we discuss what to do in case of ISIS- like persecution? How real are the beheadings of Christians throughout the world to us? That's one of the things Christians should be focused on. How will we handle persecution? What will we do? Where will we go for food and shelter if evicted? Or when police come for our children, as the Nazis did in the 1940's? Where do we hide? How will we proclaim Christ in that time of trouble? Will we defend ourselves with arms? Will we know who the other Christians are by the sign of a fish?

There is no more alarming call for the Church than Christ Himself telling us to Prepare for the coming Great Tribulation. And if they say Christ is here or there, don't believe them. That is the message of Matthew 24-25. Might He come after Passover Ch 26? Will there be churches?

GOD is all powerful all peace to find the peace your looking for is in GOD let GOD in and you will find the peace your looking for

@ Debra fanning Verily verily I say unto you, unless a man is born of water and of the Spirit he shall NOT enter the Kingdom of God

Jesus said I go and I will send the comforter

See, the thief on the cross was not subject to the new covenant law as the Comforter had not been sent yet

Baptism in water for the remission of sin and Baptism of the Holy Spirit are both requirements to enter the Kinhdom of God

Grace believers who take their anxiety to God in prayer discover the peace of God the opposite of peace is worrying this is what God is saying cast all your cares on Him prayer is a positive worry is negative when you pray don't let the negativity take away your positive prayer

Loved the message

Jesus would not give in to those things of the flesh.And Jesus would not mark his body to validate his beliefs.

Why did the the bible refer to Israel as a person?

We are now living in what the Bible said would be in a fallen world of pain. We have to start living day to day if we are one of God's people. Fighting for the rights of us and others as Jesus did in this world of sin. Staying apart from the control we now are in. We are God's people. We are warriors to the end. Our strength comes from Jesus as his angels fight the demons that are around us. We are in a world of silent destruction of what we once knew to be good, now evil. Our children cannot do anything. It is a direct hit on our elders. Health care workers. Children. Parents in dire stress of survival. We are in a silent, quiet evil world, of bilogical warfare. The high ups that run this world are out of control on knowing what they know, but only telling the people what they want them to know , to further their lies. God is showing what the world will end up being-- by the floods. Earthquakes. Tornado. Hurricanes. Bigger and worse then ever. I feel for the ones straddling the fence right now, as the world goes faster and faster. Till one day..all hell will break loose before the second coming of Jesus-- to fight the last battle for His people. What a Glorious day that will be. In a dream l saw this. Believe it or not. WATCH!!!!

Where may I find mention of people of color in the Bible?