All Discussion PAGE 307

Psalm 2:7 (Continuation)

The Decree

All these three we find in this verse. "Who being the brightness of his glory, and the express image of his person, and upholding all things by the word of his power, Express image, the will when translated is either as an emblem or as man so the only begotten Son explains it. secondly is the glory of his body. thirdly in this clause,'when he had by himself purged our sins, sat down on the right hand of the Majesty on high:' It is life everlasting.'(He.1:3)

The Spirit employs Law of Gradation to club together events for instance wars persecutions with frame reference to the Son who is appointed the heir of the world 'made to appear.' . The writer to the Hebrews records,"his Son, whom he hath appointed heir of all things, by whom also he made the worlds." (He.1:2-3). An example we have in this verse,"That upon you may come all the righteous blood shed upon the earth, from the blood of righteous Abel unto the blood of Zacharias son of Barachias, whom ye slew between the temple and the altar."(Matt.23:35)

Satan amasses an army the number of which is clubbed together from the beginning till he is cast into the lake of fire, "Gog, and Magog, to gather them together to battle: the number of whom is as the sand of the sea."(Re.20:8). The same Satan lending his authority to the beast who is shown having one characteristic, 'And I saw one of his heads as it were wounded to death; and his deadly wound was healed: and all the world wondered after the beast.'(Re.13:3) If God dealt a fatal blow to Hitler the next beast shall have that fatal wound and who is darkening the door of 2ist Century?

The number 7 is a sure signal that we are looking at events as a continual process into which the word of God steps in to control events so Hitler is knocked out to give His children a time to get their acts straight. Gospel of salvation and of judgment.

Hello S. Spencer,

I have never said that one needs to keep the 10 commandments to be saved.

So, if Adam and Bro Dan say this, then I disagree with this belief.

I agree with you that it is only by grace are we saved. It is a gift from God we receive with open hands, bringing nothing to God as to earn this salvation.

And I agree that we obey God as a result of this gift of salvation by grace. This I have always stood for.

My point in my post was that I think that people saying that God's moral commands do not apply to us can lead people to think that we are free to sin without repentance since we are no longer under law but grace. I know people who think this way.

As for me, the Holy Spirit leads me to live a godly life of faith in the finished work of Christ. My obedience to the moral commands of Jesus to love God wholly and to love others deeply from the heart so as to do them no harm is done in obedience to the Holy Spirit in me, not as a legalism, but as one who has been given the liberty to walk God's way in obedience.

In my post I did state how I agree with you and how I agree with Adam. I was not taking any person's "side" on this issue.

I am not sure what you mean be me having a "carnal" approach. Please explain.

I do not wish to rehash past conversations here because any offenses have been forgiven and settled from my perspective.

I know that there are many things we agree on and some things we don't. This is the way with all believer's who study God's word. That is why we attempt to discuss what we think we've learned from Scripture here. So, instead of evaluating one another's hearts and minds, we should be judging what we write here according to what the Scriptures say. And we should be careful of any hostility towards one another in our thoughts, hearts, and words spoken on here.

Take care, Steven, I know that you are working, so I do appreciate the time you take to respond.

Psalm 2:7 (1of 2)

The Decree

" I will declare the decree: the Lord hath said unto me, Thou art my Son; this day have I begotten thee."

A covenant is between two parties. We shall look at two worlds which are framed by the word of God. The will of God or what signified His holiness, what is unseen becomes visible. Faith is reconciling the one world unseen with what is made to appear. There is no other intermediary, "so that things which are seen were not made of things which do appear." This covenant in short is the Law since the eternal word of God gave expression. The world of the Son is on one part and "Who is the image of the invisible God." The Word was God ( John 1:1) is a sound as well as a sign. Everlasting Covenant is between God the Father and the Son where he serves as a sign.

While translating the everlasting decree in terms of visible symbols we have three components that are established by the eternal word (Ps.119:89)

A symbol or the emblem in the will of God the Father. This is the slain Lamb before the worlds began. Secondly the body: glory of God gives the body of his Son a likeness so every thing visible,- made to appear by faith, would correspondingly relate. Adam was created in his image so God places His creation in his charge. Thirdly his life. In him was life, "In him was life; and the life was the light of men." Here John is referring to the humanity of Jesus Christ. The everlasting covenant is between God and Man who is the same. "Jesus Christ the same yesterday, and to day, and for ever."(He.13:8) (1 of 2)

Hi Jcubria

You are right.

What readers of Scriptures must understand is that there is a great difference between the letter of the Law and the Spirit of the Law.The letter of the Law that was given by GOD to the people of Israel through Moses, it was and is dead, so what did matter and still matters and prevails was and is the Spirit of the Law given by GOD,the Word,Father of my Lord JESUS Christ,GOD is Spirit, as all can see by the doctrine of JESUS in Mat.5:17-48.

The dead letter of the Law says:Thou shalt not kill .period

Christ's Spirit says:Mat.5:21-26

21Ye have heard that it was said of them of old time,Thou shalt not kill; and whosoever shall kill shall be in danger of the Judgment:

22But I say unto you,That whosoever is angry with his brother without a cause,shall be in danger of the Judgment:and whosoever shall say to his brother,Raca,shall be in danger of the council:but whosoever shall say,Thou fool,shall be in danger of hell fire.

23/24 Therefore if thou bring thy gift to the altar, and there rememberest that thy brother hath ought against thee;Leave there thy gift before the altar, and go thy way; first be reconciled to thy brother,and then come and offer thy gift.

25 Agree with thine adversary quickly, whiles thou are in the way with him;lest at any time the adversary deliver thee to the judge,and the judge deliver thee to the officer, and thou be cast into prison.

26Verily I say unto thee,Thou shalt by no means come out thence,till thou hast paid the uttermost farthing.

The letter of the Law says:Thou shalt not commit adultery .period

JESUS said:Mat.5:28-32

28 Whosoever looketh on a woman to lust after her hath committed adultery with her already in his heart.

31 It was said,Whosoever shall put away his wife,let him give her a writing of divorcement:

32 But I say unto you,That whosoever shall put away his wife,saving for the cause of fornication,causeth her to commit adultery: and whosoever shall marry her that is divorced committeth adultery.

you wrote >"We have made it very clear"

Who is "we" ?

Psalm 2:2-4 (Continued)

Gog and Magog

Satan sins from the beginning so every war has been fought in which saints are required to be one in purpose with the Son. Those who do not gather souls with him are scattering and all that ensuing confusion only helps Satan. "And they went up on the breadth of the earth, and compassed the camp of the saints about," We read about Gog and Magog in the Ez.38-39 and it is God who avenges His saints. "Thus will I magnify myself, and sanctify myself; and I will be known in the eyes of many nations, and they shall know that I am the Lord."(38:23)

In the present confusion when we see the church deep into playing politics remember that it is God who administers his medicine for a church gone rogue, " He that sitteth in the heavens shall laugh: the Lord shall have them in derision./ Then shall he speak unto them in his wrath, and vex them in his sore displeasure." Either the nation can arise and make peace with God or be cast to the winds.

(2 of 2)

Psalm 2:5-9

(Continuation) 2 of 2

" I will declare the decree: the Lord hath said unto me, Thou art my Son; this day have I begotten thee./Ask of me, and I shall give thee the heathen for thine inheritance, and the uttermost parts of the earth for thy possession."( vv.7-8)

'Uttermost parts of the earth'

"And (Satan) shall go out to deceive the nations which are in the four quarters of the earth, Gog, and Magog, to gather them together to battle: the number of whom is as the sand of the sea./ And they went up on the breadth of the earth, and compassed the camp of the saints about, and the beloved city: and fire came down from God out of heaven, and devoured them."(Re.20:8-9)

Satan or Lucifer compassing the camp of the saints and the beloved city' is a case in point. The beloved city refers to the one in the world of the Spirit, and camp of the saints refer to the earthly tabernacles in the earth. We read of Abraham who by faith considered himself as sojourner and pilgrim'. 'For he looked for a city which hath foundations, whose builder and maker is God.' (He.11:10) This is Zion located in 'the north'.

As sojourners and pilgrim we consider as dwelling in the camps as the Israelites in the wilderness. We have our earthly tabernacles.(2 Co.5:1) It is under siege from the kings of the east which has been going on for long and in the time of David we have it in the Book of the Kings, He had soiled his hands in bloodshed so God will not let him build the house for him. In our case it is God who shall fight our battles since Jesus Christ is the king of kings.. What we read in Re.19 is a war in heaven. "And the armies which were in heaven followed him upon white horses, clothed in fine linen, white and clean."(19;14). The Vision of the Dry Bones refers to this army to which we shall come in the conclusion.

"Thou shalt break them with a rod of iron; thou shalt dash them in pieces like a potter's vessel." (v.9)

Psalm 2:5-9

"Yet have I set my king upon my holy hill of Zion."

In the key passage we have the narrative mode of the Spirit in setting two worlds of the Spirit and of the body simultaneously. At one level David is the focus who is ordained as the king after the fashion of the earthly kings. But David is acknowledging he is but a double for the Son signifying the will of the Father, the everlasting covenant and the day in which the decree shall run and of his inheritance. In the coming days we shall look these in detail. We have Zion a geographical entity and another in the world of the Spirit. David for instance conquered Jerusalem from the Canaanite tribe of Jebusites (2 Sa.5:6-10). He moves his capital to Jerusalem and lives in the fortress of Zion which becomes the city of David. "Beautiful for situation, the joy of the whole earth, is mount Zion, on the sides of the north, the city of the great King."(Ps.48;2)

In the world of the body north refers to a geographical location. On the other hand the north refers to Judgement as we see in the book of Jeremiah. "Out of the north an evil shall break forth upon all the inhabitants of the land./ For, lo, I will call all the families of the kingdoms of the north, saith the Lord; and they shall come, and they shall set every one his throne at the entering of the gates of Jerusalem, and against all the walls thereof round about, and against all the cities of Judah."(Je.1:14-15) Here is another: Here speaking of judgment on Lucifer we have the north mentioned, " I will sit also upon the mount of the congregation, in the sides of the north:/ I will ascend above the heights of the clouds; I will be like the most High." (Is.14:13-14) The kings of Assyria and Babylon came from north owing to the apostasy of Israel. (1 of 2)

Meditations Ps.2:2-4

'The kings of the earth set themselves' would mean that the movers and shakers of the earth have a script ready. It may be 'Holy Roman Empire' or Calvin's City of God. In such a case we have the Worker's Paradise coming from the nascent Bolshevik Russia. We also have seen Divine Rights' or 'Bill of Rights' all of the same order,- the point is it is conceived by some mind,- and the Spirit is not blaming high-mindedness of man, but warning us that in its operation it is against the Lord. The serpent in the Garden of Eden did not simply speak his mind but was tutored by a fallen angel,- Satan or Lucifer or whatever. The point is that it is scripted in the world of the Spirit and in bad faith delivered to man 'created in the image of God.'. In the case of Adam God had given the man a commandment and Satan would defeat His purpose by deceiving the woman. It is thus Satan has sinned from the beginning. "He that committeth sin is of the devil; for the devil sinneth from the beginning. For this purpose the Son of God was manifested, that he might destroy the works of the devil."( 1 John 3:8)

Who shall accuse the Founding Fathers of the US of bad faith? When they declared 'in God we trust' they were asserting their Christian faith. The point was that whether the nation and God was as one in their purpose? The founding fathers had slaves and the moral issue was not addressed at the time, it must be said that this moral ambiguity was enough for Satan. We know Satan had much legroom to make the bills serve his purpose than of God.(For instance Jim Crow laws in the post Restoration period. It is thus man who is not building with Christ creates a swamp instead of new Canaan.

Satan is the author of confusion and 'free speech' when he has given expression you hear now. Without truth of the word to subdue all ungodliness forcing upon you one is taken by the flood of misinformation. (Gal.3:1-3)

Psalm 2:2-4 Gog and Magog

When a nation is fractured despite of the best intentions to build a New Canaan we are looking at causes which go even beyond what appears to us. "They know not, neither will they understand; they walk on in darkness: all the foundations of the earth are out of course." (Ps.82:5) The foundations of the earth are part of the world of the Spirit as the soul of a man is out of joint with what he professes to the world. Reason only helps his hearer to so much. How his soul has departed from faith and shall resist all good counsel, and what he says is a smokescreen to conceal his intentions we need understand we are out of step with God. There is darkness that indicates the absence of true Light and the word to keep us from straying. When we speak of North against South the history of US is only an object lesson. Cardinal directions north, south, east and west refer to the visible world where geography of individual nations comes with borders. It is a lie of course.

In terms of Eden the Garden was placed on the east and with the fall of man we have seen people going farther and farther from it. in short kings of the earth are set in direct frame of reference to Eden. Zion is another name.

There are kings of the earth, which the Spirit tags as kings of the east. "The nations which are in the four quarters of the earth, Gog, and Magog, to gather them together to battle: the number of whom is as the sand of the sea./And they went up on the breadth of the earth, and compassed the camp of the saints about, and the beloved city: and fire came down from God out of heaven, and devoured them. "(Re.20:8). They are given a generic name, kings of the earth. "And the sixth angel poured out his vial upon the great river Euphrates; and the water thereof was dried up, that the way of the kings of the east might be prepared."(Re.16:12)

(1 of 2)

Jordyn, I don't know if people believe the beast is Satan, but instead directed by Satan or (against Christ) anti-Christ. Rev. 13:4 And they worshipped the dragon which gave power unto the beast: and they worshipped the beast, saying, Who is like unto the beast? who is able to make war with him? The Kingdom of the most High in Daniel 7 is after the four beasts. The kingdom of God in Daniel 7 comes during the 4th beast and then after arises a "little horn" which made war with the saints (anti-Christ). Interesting, just read carefully. I could be missing something, but seems understandable. Also, 2 Thess. 2 uses a lot of same language in reference to how the deception will come. By miracles.

Psalm 2:1 (2 of 2)

As with man we have seen birth of nations where the founding fathers swore their solemn oath,'In God we Trust'. What we see the nation put under the greatest constitutional crisis the citizens who love law and order ought to remember what Jesus had said,"Lest haply, after he hath laid the foundation, and is not able to finish it, all that behold it begin to mock him,/Saying, This man began to build, and was not able to finish."( Luke 14:29-30) This objective lesson brings us to consider the rage of the heathens.

"Bloodthirsty men hate one who is blameless and seek the life of the upright./A fool gives full vent to his spirit, but a wise man quietly holds it back./If a ruler hearken to lies, all his servantsarewicked."(Pr.29:10-12) Who created cultural wars based on color? A ruler who hearkens to lies surely would have learned from the father of lies. All his servants as the word of God speaks of them, are wicked.

"The tongue of the righteous is choice silver, but the heart of the wicked is of little value. The lips of the righteous nourish many, but fools die for lack of sense."(Pr.10:20-21-NIV)

The Golden Three in a nutshell

In purpose is it the glory of God that I seek? God blesses us in his Son.

2. Do we accept our sufferings identifying with what the Son underwent for our sakes? Do we learn from it to help others in their distress?

3. Our faith in his providence is our reward, view it as more as 'the love of Christ' constraining me so faith learns from experience and it serves as the second wind to glorify his Name without tiring our physical reserves.

Meditations from Psalms

Why do the heathen rage, and the people imagine a vain thing?

Rage is a characteristic of man who is void of understanding. In the lexicon of the Spirit he is morally deficient. In the Bible there are several instances of enterprises undertaken by them. The Tower of Babel was one such. Their prime concern was to defeat the holiness of God. Lest God should judge them again as he did with the old world they had the means. So it was but it would not go further. They had the muscle-power and the brains; nor was there any dearth for materials but their speech betrayed them just as the Galilean accent of Peter led him to deny his master thrice in a single night. When morally devoid what does a fool speak? In our times it would be conspiracy theories. It is thus the tower of Babel stand as a monument to folly of ungodly men. Their rage is expressed and amplified in so many sound bytes. Does it mean any thing? Nothing. What Internet Age does is what morally deficient man has set up and is of no consequence.

Jesus speaks of a builder who set about building a tower with similar results as we have seen in the tower of Babel. ( Luke 14:28-30) He did not build with God who is the maker and builder, and not according to his purpose. In the many trials of Job we came across what St James speaks of his patience. "You have heard of the steadfastness of Job, and you have seen the purpose of the Lord, how the Lord is compassionate and merciful." Here we have the Golden Three that makes any enterprise of man succeed. In purpose both God and man are as one. Secondly his steadfastness to endure even as Job suffered. Thirdly the grace of God that passes all understanding so man has to take him on trust."Unless theLordbuilds the house,/those who build it labor in vain. Unless theLordwatches over the city,

the watchman stays awake in vain."(Ps.127:1-3) (1 of 2)

Adam.

We have debated on this topic now for years. whether if a person can lose their salvation or do you have to keep the 10 commandments to be saved.

We have made it very clear in these discussions that it is not ok to continue in sin.

Nevertheless, However that discussion goes you say we are saying that it is ok to sin.

I wish you would make yourself clear.

Im off to work. God bless.

Gigi.

You said, The original post on this thread was concerning the Sabbath commandment and if it still needs to be obeyed.

This question said nothing about needing to obey this commandment to be saved.''

But your reply to Adam after my comment had nothing to do with the Sabbath, it was about obeying the 10 commandments.



We've debated with Adam over the years that if a guy does the things he says, "continuing in sin, no repentance, Killing, stealing, ect. that person not a saved person at all.

Adam calls that a straw man's Argument. I'm not partial at all Gigi. I'm sorry but these views that Adam and Bro Dan hold is NOT Christianity at all. Salvation consists of Sanctification by the Spirit.

Gigi, I've seen you take a stand with him whether he's right or wrong. He has argued against the grace of God since I have been on this site.

The other day I apologized to you in the way I treated you a few weeks ago for telling you that your approach to scripture was carnal and that you show partiality, and it shows in your comments. I felt I presented myself in a way that I shouldn't have even though it is true. I felt I was wrong because I did it with no regards to your feelings. And yet here you go again. Your doubling down on this approach clears my conscience.

He is not saying that some newbie is going to get wind of what's being said and say it's okay to sin. He's accusing us of saying that!

How can a person say you are saved by faith but yet no one knows that they are saved until Judgment? What is your faith applied to? Keeping the law or Christ finished work on the cross?

We are saved unto good works; Salvation comes with sanctification. They come against the very core of Christianity, and you do too if you agree with them when they say you have to keep the 10 commandments to be saved.

We keep what commandments apply to us because we are saved.

God bless.

Gigi.

pt 1

You stated, "The original post on this thread was concerning the Sabbath commandment and if it still needs to be obeyed.

This question said nothing about needing to obey this commandment to be saved.'' End quote.

I wasn't talking about the thread when I said what I said to Adam.

Adam wasn't answering the original question by the poster. Adam was stating his position that he has held since I have been on this site.

Here is what Adam quoted and has been quoting every time the topic comes up.

obviously, the argument that since Jesus it's ok to do "whatever" is a weak argument, because that would then mean its ok to kill people, lie, have affairs, etc. END QUOTE.

That has been Adam response and rebuttal in spite of what people say! Anytime someone ask can you lose your salvation or says anything about the commandments, that has been Adams response.

Salvation by Christ alone and the works of the flesh has been the topic on this site and on several threads for several days now.

You said you are glad that Adam "changed the narrative" because the tone of the thread can be perceived as he has voiced a concern about.

Where did anyone give the indication by their response to that it was alright to kill people, lie, have affairs, etc.

I don't know what you are missing, these conversations have always been about Salvation.

You said for you, presenting both of these angles is important here.

Haven't you read my previous post concerning this topic, and others?

Adam said he thinks the 10 commandments apply- obviously the argument that since Jesus it's ok to do "whatever" is a weak argument, because that would then mean it's ok to kill people, lie, have affairs, etc. This statement is what my rebuttal to Adam is about.

When the question is asked directly, (does one have to keep the 10 commandments to be saved?)

That is when they show up with the answers and statement we are disputing about.

It has been going on for years.

See pt 2

please remember me and my family today in your prayers today please pray for my daughter Jessica and her family

Bedbugg, the verse Jesse gave you is the most apt one. You may want to look at Galatians 1:6-9, which gives a similar warning.

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May God bless you!

Jesse

That is a verse that does explain those who were refusing the Apostles who were teaching to many different location. Thank you

Hi Peaches,

This mark will be freely taken, it will not be disguised and whoever takes it will know what they are doing, like you said who will you worship?

In Revelation 13:11-18 the second beast/the false prophet is the one who makes an image of the first beast, and forces people to receive this mark, and if not, they are killed. The mark of the beast is said to be diverse things, a literal mark, a computer chip, symbols, and more, something like this was done in the past.

It may be like the Decian persecution in 250 AD under Emperor Decius. The decree ordered sacrifices had to be performed in the presence of a Roman magistrate, it was a signed and witnessed certificate, issued to that effect. People had to perform a sacrifice to the Roman gods/image, or idol for the well-being of the Emperor. A great number of Christians were put to death for refusing to perform the sacrifices.

Many others apostatized (falling away) and performed the ceremonies, and others went into hiding. This picture language appears to identify those who had given either mental assent or extended the right hand of fellowship to this evil conglomerate power. These compromisers thus were able to prosper economically. By way of contrast, those who did not receive the mark were unable to go into the marketplaces and hence suffered hardship, illustrated in the form of economic deprivation.

Something like this could be the mark of the beast although I believe it will be an actual mark. Like the ones in the past who gave in and took the certificate so they would not be killed, one will give up eternal life for a few years in this corrupt world. If we are living when this starts, we must stand strong in our faith regardless of what we face, God will give us the strength.

God bless,

RLW

We both are children of God since we committed our lives to Jesus Christ we also brethren. There is no age or gender bar in his sight. So let us see how God builds you and me in Christ. In Col.1:16-19 we are told we all are part of his body. God determined this fulness in him so everything must relate to the body, the Church. "And by him all things consist." You mentioned of angels and you are right.

The holy city of God has only single measure. Gospel is one and,"The length and the breadth and the height of it are equal./And he measured the wall thereof, an hundred and forty and four cubits, according to the measure of a man, that is, of the angel." (Re.21:16-17) Jesus Christ died once and he has a spiritual body, an anagel' to all practical purposes. When we say we have put on Christ we are part of the measurement. Wherever we lack it is his grace that shall fill up the shortfall. So we live by grace and trusting that he knows all our needs. St John wanted to worship the angel who showed him around. He told him not to."for I am thy fellowservant, and of thy brethren the prophets, " He is one like John and it is how we serve each other. We are all angels working with the spirit of Christ and our indwelling Spirit responds to it. We need not put him to test but simply trust. He will not contradict God or his Word. As he is so are we in this world.

May the grace of our Savior bless us and keep us to remain pure in this world. Amen

Bedbugg,

Are you thinking of 1 John 1:10 which reads, "If there come any unto you, and bring not this doctrine, receive him not into your house, neither bid him God speed:"?

That is an interesting verse. That last phrase, neither bid him God speed, means do not speak greetings. Receive him not into your house, neither speak greetings to him.

Now that's pretty harsh!

But we have to keep in mind that the church met in the homes. But especially this elect lady, she was hospitable towards traveling teachers and preachers.

She had to find out what their doctrine was. If they did not hold to the doctrine of Jesus Christ, as taught by Christ and the apostles, she was not to let them into her home.

You might say that sounds like keeping the truth, but it doesn't sound like love. But you see that's John's point. This is divine love.

We as believers, we compromise with the truth for the sake of love. But that's not divine love.

My apologies if this was not what you were looking for or referring to!

There is a verse in the N T that warns those who do not receive the Apostles are not welcomed or accepted while preaching evangelizing or explain "the way" they will be an anathema before God

Just for some clarification, some may have misunderstood our underlying reasoning for the debate. Neither side of the debate is advocating that Christians are free to sin because we are not under the law. In the NT nine of the ten commandments were indeed repeated as moral instruction and deal with things that are inherently right and wrong. The Sabbath was omitted from that and for a reason. There is no instruction to Christians to keep the Sabbath, and nothing that has been discussed was meant to give any Christian free license to sin. God hates sin in any form!

Hi Oseas.

Yes, Jesus is our "KINSMAN" redeemer.. I emphasize Kinsman because of what is discussed in this thread. In Revelation 5:4-10 Ir states that NO MAN was found to open the book. It had to be a man to fulfill the role! And Jesus qualifies being born of a woman to be our Kinsman.

Galatians 4:3-5 "Even so we, when we were children, were in bondage under the elements of the world:

But when the fulness of the time was come, God sent forth his Son, made of a woman, made under the law,

To redeem them that were under the law, that we might receive the adoption of sons

We learn much about this in type in the book of Ruth and in other places on the OT.

GB.

Hello, S. Spencer,

The original post on this thread was concerning the Sabbath commandment and if it still needs to be obeyed.

This question said nothing about needing to obey this commandment to be saved.''

So, Adam did not change the narrative anymore or less that those who made the thread into obedience to the commands of God as a necessity for being saved. Adam is just directing the conversation into another aspect of how the moral commands of God apply to our walk in the Spirit. I have been reading this thread and was thinking just like Adam as to "Why is no one speaking of how walking in the Spirit is obeying God and how we are warned against walking according to the sinful nature that leads us to think that sinning against the moral commands of God is o.k."

So, I am glad that Adam "changed the narrative" as you say, because the tone of the thread can be perceived as he has voiced a concern about: that we can live as WE wish and not be concerned if we disobey the commandments or not because it doesn't matter. I can see that this can easily be deduced from what many have posted on this thread, especially those who are young in the faith or who have had deep entanglements in sinful lifestyles. So, I think that the Adam's "take" on this subject is needed and anyone who walks by the Spirit ought to agree with him.

S. Spencer, I do not wish to get into a long exchange with you on this as I think much has already been said in this thread and between us in the past on this topic. I know you are passionate about this topic from the angle you present, and I agree that we do not obey God to earn salvation nor His favor. And I agree with Adam that we who walk according the Spirit within us should be living life of moral obedience to God as well as one that follows the lead of the Spirit in every personal experience, to will and do ALL that one is called to do or not to do as the Spirit shows us.

For me, presenting both of these angles is important here.

Hello Adam,

I agree with you.

Legalism is doing what is right in order to earn salvation. It is following man-made requirements to earn God's favor.

It is not legalism to walk in obedience to God by the working of the Holy Spirit. Those who obey the 10 commandments are doing what God wills and showing the world what Jesus was like in that He fulfilled the Law in every way.

We obey the 10 commandments so that we are treating one another with love, grace, and mercy as well as giving God the glory and worship He alone deserves.

Many have taken this discussion in the direction of it is not necessary to obey the 10 commandments as a way to be saved" and most of us agree with that, so perhaps it is time to discuss how obeying the 10 commandments fulfills God's will for us in our daily lives, as you have proposed.

The discussion on the relationship of the 10 commandments to salvation has been discussed thoroughly and at length, but not everyone has presented their argument in such terms which makes it seem that we do not need to live our lives according to God's moral commands.

Some people balk at the term "need" in reference to obeying the 10 commandments, as if using the term "need" means that we obey them in order to secure salvation. But that is not necessarily the case. As believers we do need to be obedient to God and turn from sin in order to fulfill the commands Jesus summed up in Matt. 22:34-40: Love the Lord your God with all your heart, soul, mind and love your neighbor as yourself. These two commands gather together the whole moral law of God.

In Matt. 5:17-20, our Lord warns against breaking even the least of the commandments and instructing anyone else to disobey these commandments.

Jesus was very clear about our obligation to God to be obedient. If we don't think we need to follow God's rules for right living then we have made ourselves our god and the determiner of right from wrong. We are to be slaves to righteousness. God is our sovereign.

Spencer, this seems like an unusual response from you about my post on the 10 commandments.

>It has never been anything close to an argument whether killing, stealing, adultery, ect was a sin or not on this site, and you know that.

"and you know that"?

What an unusual comment from you. Surely you're not pretending to know my thoughts that only God knows?

I stand by what I wrote and God knows your heart and motives for every word you say. It's a fact that Christians often try to justify sin through clever little cherry picking of verses and this occurs on this site. There was someone just recently who wrote it's impossible for Christians to sin and that our actions don't matter. This is a false teaching. It's unusual that you claimed "never been anything close to an argument..." because that's obviously untrue.

I'm not sure whether you haven't read some of these threads on this or just generally denying it. Christians sinning was such a big deal that's why Jesus warned His followers so much about it over and over, including through parables. If it wasn't such a big deal, Jesus wouldn't have repeated this over and over. John 8:11 "go, and sin no more" etc.

Hebrews 10:26 "For if we sin wilfully after that we have received the knowledge of the truth, there remaineth no more sacrifice for sins,"

The truth needs to be shared on this forum, because there is a lot of misinformation and lies often repeated. Satan loves deceiving Christians and getting them to do his work. I feel led by the spirit to warn Christians, because people are ignoring Jesus's words and time is running out. John 14:15 Most people in the US call themselves "Christian" but Jesus says most people will go to hell. Jesus will help go after his true followers (sheep), but He doesn't go after wolves to "save" them, and He doesn't go after wolves in sheep's clothing. Matthew 7:13-21

Peaches:

Why do you assume the beast in Revelation is satan or the anti-christ?

Daniel 7:23 ...the FORTH beast shall be the FORTH KINGDOM on earth ....

John the Baptist came preaching the KINGDOM of GOD; the FORTH kingdom on earth, the FORTH BEAST, the last kingdom on earth.

The Kingdom of God has been on earth now for about 2000 years; CHRIST IN THE FLESH, IN YOU, his BODY, causing man TO WILL and TO DO his good pleasure.

Ezekiel 36:27 I WILL put MY SPIRIT IN YOU and CAUSE YOU to walk in my statutes and TO KEEP my judgements and DO THEM

Revelation 6:7 And when HE (the lamb of God) had opened the forth seal, I heard the voice of the FORTH BEAST (the lamb of God, the kingdom of God) SAY, come and see

Revelation 6:8 And I looked, and behold, a pale horse, and his name that sat on him WAS DEATH, and the grave followed after him, and POWER WAS GIVEN TO THEM (the image of the BEAST, the kingdom of GOD) over the forth part of the earth, to KILL with the SWORD (the word of God), and with HUNGER (no bread of life), and with DEATH, and with the BEAST of the EARTH (those that carry the mark of the BEAST: the kingdom of God.

Revelation 12:16 And the earth HELPED the WOMAN, and the earth OPENED her MOUTH (DEATH and the grave), and swallowed up the FLOOD (people, tongues and nations) which the dragon cast out of his mouth.

Psalms 7:13 He hath also prepared for him the INSTRUMENTS of DEATH; he ORDAINED his ARROWS against the persecutors.

Jeremiah 51:29 THOU (those that carry the MARK) are my battle axe and WEAPONS of WAR (arrows, the word of GOD); for with THEE (the saints, the BODY of Christ, the IMAGE of the BEAST) WILL I break in pieces the NATIONS, and with THEE will I destroy kingdoms.

Revelation 2:27 ...to him that overcometh, WILL I give POWER over the NATIONS .....

God Bless You!