King James Bible
King James Version (KJV)
All Discussion PAGE 311
Viewing page: 311 of 6006
< Previous Discussion Page Next Discussion Page >
301 302 303 304 305 306 307 308 309 310 311 312 313 314 315 316 317 318 319 320
Do you have a Bible comment or question?
Posting comments is currently unavailable due to high demand on the server.
Please check back in an hour or more. Thank you for your patience!
My apologies if I misrepresented what you were saying. I thought you were using the Ephesians passage to justify an understanding of the fate of the OT Believer, which I believe is not taught in the Bible.
What I stated is my understanding regarding the Ephesians passage which I believe applies to ALL of those saved throughout time.
First lets look at the return of Jesus in ( 1 Thess 4:16) "For the Lord himself shall descend from heaven with a shout, with the voice of the archangel, and with the trump of God: and ((the dead in Christ shall rise first)) Where are these dead who rise first rising from?
They rise from the grave!
( Jn 5:28-29) 28 "all that are in the graves shall hear his voice", 29 "And shall come forth; they that have done good to the resurrection of life; and they that have done evil, unto the resurrection of damnation".
They come forth out of the graves.
( Ps 49:15) "But God will redeem ((my soul)) from the power of the grave: for he shall receive me. Selah'.
The word (grave) is #7585; it means hades or the world of the dead (as if a subterranean retreat) including its accessories and inmates, grave, hell, pit.
( Heb 4:12) "For the word of God is quick, and powerful, and sharper than any twoedged sword, piercing even to the (dividing) asunder of soul and spirit"
The word (dividing) is #3311; it means a separation or distribution, to part, to disunite, be difference between.
The soul and spirit are separated, disunited, there will be difference between them when we die.
The soul goes to the grave until the resurrection, then they rise first. ( 1 Thess 4:16)
The spirit goes to God and will be the ones who sleep in Jesus that God brings with Him in ( 1 Thess 4:14)
Blessings GiGi.
There is no instruction to Christians to keep the Sabbath. Rather the Scripture distinctly states that the Christian cannot be condemned for failing to keep it! ( Col 2:16).
4. Paul does not distinguish between the moral law and the ceremonial law. Rather, he insists that the law is a complete unit, and that a curse rests on those who seek to attain righteousness by it, yet fail to keep it all.5. Nine of the Ten Commandments are repeated in the NT as moral instruction for the children of God. They deal with things that are inherently right or wrong. The one commandment which is omitted is the law of the Sabbath. The keeping of a day is not inherently right or wrong. There is no instruction to Christians to keep the Sabbath. Rather the Scripture distinctly states that the Christian cannot be condemned for failing to keep it! ( Col 2:16).
6. The penalty for breaking the Sabbath in the OT was death (Ex35:2). But those who insist on believers keeping the Sabbath today do not carry out the penalty on offenders. They thus dishonor the law and destroy its authority by failing to insist that its demands be met. They are saying, in effect, "This is God's law and you must keep it, but nothing will happen if you break it."
7. Christ, and not the law, is the believer's rule of life. We should walk as He walked. This is an even higher standard than was set by the law ( Mt 5:17-48). We are empowered to live holy lives by the Holy Spirit. We want to live holy lives because of our love for Christ. The righteousness demanded by the law is fulfilled by those who do not walk according to the flesh but according to the Spirit (Ro 8:4). Thus, the teaching that believers must keep the Sabbath is directly contrary to Scripture ( Col 2:16), and is simply a "different gospel" upon which God's word pronounces a curse (Ga 1:7,9). "Believer's Bible Commentary".Marion, IA: Laridian, Inc., 2021.
Thank you David for you comment. I am having a hard time understanding how you can say "when I read the KJV I am convinced that I am indeed sitting at the feet of God Himself, knowing that what I am reading is from the mouth of God Himself'.
David how can you say that and in the very same comment you say the KJB (which is from the mouth of God Himself) has errors?
Do you want to see the perfection in the KJB?
(Truth in Christ) on youtube then watch this video (The BIBLE in our hand is the Twoedged SWORD of His MOUTH -Clear Evidence!)
Watch this video and You will see many patterns of perfection in the KJB!
Seek the Truth David.
God Bless.
We must go forth and make disciples and reach those who need to be saved. Family, friends, any and all - GOD will bless our efforts. GOD to shine and bless our efforts.
Amen! Praying for all who are this forum. August 27, 2023
- A Creature of God
Genesis 1:27 "So God created man in his own image, in the image of God created he him; male and female created he
them."
-Performance Issues
i.Low resistance to temptation
Genesis 3:13 "And the LORD God said unto the woman, What is this that thou hast done? And the woman said, the
serpent beguiled me, and I did eat."
ii.High level of corruption
Genesis 6:12 "And God looked upon the earth, and, behold, it was corrupt; for all flesh had corrupted his way upon
the earth."
Puzzle
In light of these issues, what is the meaning of "in the image of God created he him; male and female created he them."?
Thanks for your reply, However you might want to re read my post.
I never said Christ went to the lower parts of the earth to bring out Old Testament saints.
I said.
I believe this passage of scripture is saying Jesus rose victorious from the grave. He paid the price for the sin of the world through His sacrificial death and Resurrection, and broke the power of sin, Satan, death, and hell.
I believe at this point those saved in the Old Testament leaves Abraham's bosom and goes to be with the Lord.
And so do we when we die.
End quote.
They will get their bodies in the resurrection.
I'm sorry if you disagree with that, we will have to remain in disappointment.
Thanks in advance and God bless.
I enjoyed the weekend, Hopefully you did as well.
Your reference to Acts is David's body/tent. David is with the Lord, it's his body that will be ressurerected.
And yes we will go to heaven.
We see that in Revelation 5:3 "And no man in heaven,
nor in earth, neither under the earth, was able to open the book, neither to look thereon.
God bless.
we are in a tabernacle/ tent.
we are not the tent!
when the body/tent dies we are absent of it.
and so is unbelievers.
even tho some disagree on where the spirit of a person goes, it's clear by these verses it lives on.
2 corinthians 5:1-6. for we know that if our earthly house of this tabernacle were dissolved,
we have a building of god, an house not made with hands, eternal in the heavens.
notice paul still addresses the spirit as if it still lives even tho the body has dessolved?
for in this we groan, earnestly desiring to be clothed upon with our house which is from heaven:
if so be that being clothed we shall not be found naked.
for we that are in this tabernacle do groan, being burdened: not for that we would be unclothed, but clothed upon, that mortality might be swallowed up of life.
now he that hath wrought us for the selfsame thing is god, who also hath given unto us the earnest of the spirit.
therefore we are always confident, knowing that, whilst we are at home in the body, we are absent from the lord:
and when we are absent from the body we are going to be present with the lord.
we have been baptized in christ and given an ernest of the spirit.
when we go to be with the lord we will have the full measure of the spirit!
we have been quickened by the spirit of god!
we have eternal life now.
we are part of the first resurrection now!
we're alive.
those who are lost is already dead whilst they live but yet still exist.
the dead is also often mentioned as a category. ( revelation 20:13.)
so when their body dies their spirit/soul will still exist but yet classify with the dead. when they are ressurected, they will be twice dead and thrown into the lake of fire and be tormented.
god bless.
Hope your weekend went well brother, if I may give my understanding of Ephesians 4:8-10. As He Ascended up on High, Acts 1:9 He led captivity captive and gave gifts unto men.
He led captivity captive; we see this also in Judges 5:12 which has a meaning to take captive your captors. When Jesus rose from the grave, he took power over what held Him captive. Death and the grave were what held Him, but because He was without sin, they could not hold Him Acts 2:24. Since the garden, Satan had the power of death and the grave, and when Jesus rose from the grave, He took that power which are the keys, Revelation 1:18.
Gifts unto men, we see this in Psalms 68:18. These gifts are also for the rebellious. These gifts are for all people in Acts 1:8 Jesus gave the commission to the Apostles just before He ascended to heaven. The gifts are in Ephesians 4:11-12 He gave apostles; and some, prophets; and some, evangelists; and some, pastors and teachers; all for the ministry for the perfecting of the saints. For the work of the ministry for the edifying of the body of Christ for all people. It is the gift to mankind for their salvation, no better gift can be given to man.
He that descended, when Jesus died, He was dead for three days. Jesus descended into death, and the grave, and because He had no sin, they had no power over Him. The first Adam through his disobedience brought sin and death to mankind, Jesus the second Adam through His obedience brought life.
If there were those whom Jesus brought with Him when He resurrected, I would think it would be David but in Acts 2:29 and Acts 2:34 David is dead and buried and has not ascended to heaven. This earth is our home and our reward we do not go to heaven. We are heirs according to the promise, Galatians 3:26-29, Genesis 12:7, Genesis 13:5 it is forever, and Romans 4:13 the whole earth.
Rev. 5:10 Psalms 37:9,22,34 This earth is where we will be not heaven.
God bless you, brother,
RLW
However, with the Luke 16:19-31 account I simply cannot accept it as a 'non-literal historical event'. You mention that "no one in the grave has eyes to see or a mouth to speak". It is true, that the deceased's physical eyes & mouths have long been destroyed in the grave, yet in the spiritual realm there still remains a consciousness, for the spirit of man cannot die. Now whether those three mentioned in Hades (under the OT economy) had physical members or not is not mentioned, but that a conversation took place. Now, if these figures in Hades were only presented as a story "to teach some aspect of the Gospel", then wouldn't it be very wrong of Jesus to name them & place them?
Look at any of the parables of Jesus (e.g. the Sower, the Tares, the Hid Treasure, the Ten Virgins, the Rich Fool, the Lost Sheep, etc.). Do any of them give the names or even the exact locations where the events took place? So a parable's definition is not just the Truth that Jesus wanted to impart to the people (a Truth that generally they could not perceive, therefore the need of 'story-telling'), but a parable had to meet this other criterion (of not naming people or places), or else it wasn't a parable. The Luke 16 account was an actual event told by Jesus as He claimed that Abraham & Lazarus were there in the Hades portion of comfort. If this were not true, then I would have to admit to Jesus being deceptive, when He could just as easily have shared a similar Truth without resorting to names of actual people & places. The lesson learned from this does conform to the message of a parable, but the actual event is real, unlike other of His parables.
Perhaps this thread could be used for the discussion on God not leaving His Holy One in hell (the abode of the dead). I just think it is best to divide the previous thread into two even though both topics (what happens to the soul upon death and God not leaving His Holy One in hell) are interrelated.
Thank you for your contributions to both of these threads I have started.
My post to Jema was not intended to begin a discussion of Christ's descent into hell (the abode of the dead) rather to speak to the topic of whether a soul lives on after the body dies or if it ceases to exist when the body dies.
While I think that this topic of the God not leaving His Holy One in hell (the abode of the dead) is a worthy topic, I did not want a discussion on this topic to over ride the discussion on what happens to one's soul at death.
Perhaps it is best to have two different threads for these two topics.
I would like this thread to continue to discussion on what happens to the soul at death.
Ephesians 4:4-12 There is one body, and one Spirit, even as ye are called in one hope of your calling; One Lord, one faith, one baptism, One God and Father of all, who is above all, and through all, and in you all. But unto every one of us is given grace according to the measure of the gift of Christ. Wherefore he saith, When he ascended up on high, he led captivity captive, and gave gifts unto men. (Now that he ascended, what is it but that he also descended first into the lower parts of the earth? He that descended is the same also that ascended up far above all heavens, that he might fill all things.) And he gave some, apostles; and some, prophets; and some, evangelists; and some, pastors and teachers; For the perfecting of the saints, for the work of the ministry, for the edifying of the body of Christ:
The phrase "lower parts of the earth" is a phrase used by God to identify with those who are under the Wrath of God for their sins. And that is where Christ finds every one whom He saves and for whom Christ has "descended into", i.e. endured the Wrath of God on their behalf. He did this in order to free those whom He saves from "captivity to sin and Satan" and to make them "captives" of Christ.
And this is what Salvation is all about for anyone whom God saves, both OT and NT Believers alike.
It is not talking about Christ going to a place called "hades" to bring OT Believers out of never-never land.
These verses must be read in the context of the entire chapter which is talking about the very Nature of Salvation itself.
I really appreciate your reverence and passion for the Word of God, the Bible. And when it comes to the original languages and the manuscripts used by the KJV translators, they were and are indeed without error. God has indeed protected His Word throughout time in that sense. I also deeply respect the attitude of the translators in keeping as closely as possible to a word-for-word translation into English of the original languages; this is demonstrated by their use of italics when adding words to assist in the flow of the language.
The KJV is not a paraphrase Bible in any sense whatsoever. I personally would not own or consult a paraphrase Bible EVER; if we want to consult a commentary, let it be identified as such as it is the work and understanding of men. A paraphrase Bible is not the Word of God in any sense whatsoever.
The KJV Bible is certainly by far the best translation in the English language available today. And God has graciously provided tools such as interlinear versions and concordances keyed to the KJV so that a teacher or serious student of the Bible can check out the translation of any verse in the KJV using the original Hebrew, Greek or Aramaic.
But the KJV is not without any error of any kind. And there are certain verses and words where the translators might have done a better job and possibly used a legitimate alternate word or phrase. And there are at least a couple of instances, of which I am aware, where they translated a singular word in the plural and vice versa. There is no doubt that the KJV translators were at least to some degree influenced by the doctrines of the their church of that day. These discrepancies are very few and far between as I understand from several faithful Bible teachers whom I trust.
That said, when I read the KJV I am convinced that I am indeed sitting at the feet of God Himself, knowing that what I am reading is from the Mouth of God Himself. And I can always check out the translation.
By which also he went and preached unto the spirits in prison.
I also believe this quote by Peter in 1 Peter 3:19-20 doesn't say Christ went into Hell and preached to the Spirits in prison.
I believe verse 20 tells us WHEN he preached to those in prison.
(Verse 20)
Which sometime were disobedient, when once the longsuffering of God waited in the days of Noah, WHILE THE ARK WAS A PREPARING, wherein few, that is, eight souls were saved by water.
I believe the building of the ark, the material used and the ark itself presents a type in the work of Christ and Christ himself.
Hebrews 11:7 By faith Noah, being warned of God of things not seen as yet, moved with fear, prepared an ark to the saving of his house; by the which he condemned the world, and became heir of the righteousness which is by faith.
I also believe Ephesians 4:8-9 has to be interpreted separate from 1 Peter.
"Wherefore he saith, When he ascended up on high, he led captivity captive, and gave gifts unto men.
Now that he ascended, what is it but that he also descended first into the lower parts of the earth?
I believe this passage of scripture is saying Jesus rose victorious from the grave. He paid the price for the sin of the world through His sacrificial death and Resurrection, and broke the power of sin, Satan, death, and hell.
I believe at this point those saved in the Old Testament leaves Abraham's bosom and goes to be with the Lord.
And so do we when we die.
Also, I believe Satan will be bound by a great Angel, not the Lord. That is yet future. Revelation 20:1-2.
The conditions in Revelation 20:3-5 hasn't happened yet.
Blessings.
Amen
God bless,
RLW
"the grave".
Luke 15:20 (KJV) 20 And he arose, and came to his father. But when he was yet a great way off, his father saw him, and had compassion, and ran, and fell on his neck, and kissed him.
Finally, he "came to his senses" (Greek, phe mi), that is, "he became enlightened," or "began to see the light"! He reasoned that his father's hired hands had enough bread to eat, "but I am dying here with hunger!" (v. 17). With emotional reasoning, he decided to go home and say, "Father, I have sinned against heaven, and in your sight" (v. 18). He recognized that he had sinned first against the heavenly Father, then his earthly father! Being so humbled by the experience, he wanted to tell his father, "I am no longer worthy to be called your son; make me as one of your hired men" (v. 19). But regardless of what the young man had done, the mercy of his father was beyond measure. When the father saw his son coming down the road toward home, (1) from a distant he spotted him, as if he looked each day for him to come back, and (2) he felt compassion for his son, (3) ran to him, (4) embraced him, and (5) kissed him (v. 20). The son told his father exactly what he vowed to say: "I have sinned against heaven and in your sight; I am no longer worthy to be called your son" (v. 21).
The depth of the son's repentance is matched only by the depth of the father's love. His actions touch the heart. The father saw the young man while he was still a long way off. This suggests the father longed and looked for his son's return one day. Then, he had pity on his son by running to meet him. This indicates that the father took the initiative in being reconciled to his son.* Mal Couch. "Twenty-First Century Biblical Commentary". Marion, IA: Laridian, Inc., 2021.
From the Preface of the Defined King James Bible:
As the Defined King James Bible has come to it's completion, we the publishers are overjoyed. We have long awaited the appearance of such a King James Bible that would easily inform the reader of meanings of words which, though excellent in 1611, have changed slightly through the years...
There are two portions of Scripture that come to mind concerning the understanding of the Words of God. The first portion is in Nehemiah. Nehemiah 8:8 states: "So they read in the book in the law of God distinctly, and gave the sense, and caused them to understand the reading." This is what The Defined King James Bible has done. It will cause those who read the King James Bible to know "the sense" and "to understand the reading." They do not need to go to one of the modern versions which have inferior Hebrew and Greek texts, inferior translators, inferior translation techniques, and inferior technology.
A second portion of Scripture is found in Acts. Acts 8:30 states that Philip, when he met the Ethiopian Eunuch, "ran thither to him, and heard him read the prophet Esaias, and said, Understandest thou what thou readest?" The Eunuch's reply in the next verse was: "How can I, except some man should guide me?" The footnotes in The Defined King James Bible will act as a "guide" so that you, too, might understand "what thou readest".
You will notice that there has been no change whatsoever in the Authorized King James Bible. It has been kept as the standard which has united English speaking people throughout the world. There have been only clarifying footnotes based upon sound English dictionaries and, where needed, the original Hebrew and Greek languages.
The account of Jesus raising Lazarus from the Dead is an actual historical event. It occurred exactly as recorded in John 11. But like many of the historical events recorded in the Bible, and in particular like all of the miracles that Jesus did, this is a "historical parable" in that God has placed it the Bible to teach us something about the Gospel, the Nature of Salvation.
Lazarus was DEAD. God makes that crystal clear in that his Body had started to decay; "he stinketh". So Lazarus could do absolutely nothing to contribute in any way whatsoever to his resurrection back to physical life. But Christ, Eternal God Himself, spoke and said "Lazarus come forth". And Lazarus did rise and came forth.
This is a beautiful picture, a "parable", teaching us what happens to someone when Christ applies Salvation to their life and they become Born Again. Before God saves us we are Spiritually Dead in trespasses and sins. We "stink spiritually" and have no ability to contribute to our Salvation in any way whatsoever ( Rom 3:10-18); CHRIST MUST DO ALL OF THE WORK, 100%, TO SAVE US IF WE ARE TO BECOME SAVED. So when Christ saves us He raises us from Spiritual DEATH to Spiritual LIFE and gives us Eternal Life by giving us a New Resurrected Soul. This is becoming Born Again. Christ in effect says, SINNER COME FORTH. AND WE DO COME FORTH. Just like Lazarus.
The passage in Luke 16 regarding a Rich man and Lazarus CANNOT be a literal historical event for many reasons when we examine the language carefully. The Language is describing a situation which is contrary to the Nature of Salvation itself; no one in the grave has eyes to see or a mouth to speak. And there is no communication between those in the grave and those in heaven. This is indeed a story, a "parable", like many that Jesus told which were not historical events, but were designed to teach some aspect of the Gospel. But a discussion of this "parable" is a subject for another comment and another day.