All Discussion PAGE 324

Dear Jema, I will certainly pray for you in this matter. God's blessing on you as you seek Him each moment.

Please pray for me . I have been taking God's generosity towards me for granted . This is a sin . Please pray that God will forgive me for my ingratitude and for my irresponsible use of what He has provided for me . I have taken God's generosity towards me for granted and I have been frivolous with His provision for me . I am sorry . May God forgive me .

Chris

It seems you still discerned not the main point I'm bringing to the site by posts.The main point is about the origin of death,the "letter"kills,we cannot deny,the problem is to discern this deep mystery.

In Eden,due the disobedience of MAN to what the Spirit had said unto him not to do,for if so the consequence would be death because the Spirit said:You will die.It is the Power of the invisible GOD.The Word is GOD,proceedes out of the mouth of the Person of GOD,self-executable,understand?Why Adam died only after 930 years of his disobedience?Adam died because the Spirit said:You will die.The prophetic GOD's Word fulfilled after 930 years:Adam died in the exact moment he sinned disobeying GOD,being beguiled by Eve that was beguiled by the Devil by subtilty(whose throat is an open sepulcre)

See,the disobedience is as the sin of witchcraft,and stubbornness is as iniquity and idolatry

1Samuel 15:22-26

22 And Samuel said,Hath the Lord as great delight in burnt offerings and sacrifices,as in obeying the voice of the Lord? Behold,to obey is better than sacrifice,and to hearken than the fat of rams

23 For rebellion is as the sin of witchcraft,and stubbornness is as iniquity and idolatry.Because thou hast rejected the Word of the Lord,He hath also rejected thee from being king

24 And Saul said unto Samuel, I have sinned: for I have transgressed the command of the Lord,and thy words:because I feared the people,and obeyed their voice

25 Now therefore,I pray thee,pardon my sin,and turn again with me,that I may worship the Lord

26 And Samuel said unto Saul,I will not return with thee:for thou hast rejected the Word of the Lord,and the Lord hath rejected thee from being king over Israel

First of all,you die because you disobey GOD,the deadly effect on the body(decay and sepulchre)takes a certain amount of time

Behold,the man is become as one of us,to know good and evil: and now,lest he put forth his hand,and take also of the tree of life, and eat,and live for ever

***Please post this comment as it is a correction to a comment deleted from the Mod Queue prior to posting***

Chris,

I actually agree with much of what you are saying in this comment. But we must always keep in mind God's statement regarding the condition of ALL of Mankind, apart from Salvation, in Romans 3, Psalm 14, Psalm 53, Psalm 58 and many other parts of the Bible.

When I read your comments here and elsewhere regarding the nature and purpose of the OT Ceremonial Sacrifices, you seem to conclude that these Ceremonial Laws were given as some kind of "interim means of acceptance" by which God could overlook the sins of those who would diligently observe these Ceremonial Laws up until the Cross.

The Bible clearly teaches, particularly in the Book of Hebrews, that the Ceremonial Laws were given as a picture, a SIGN, that their sins brought them under condemnation and the Wrath of God. And that God Himself must purge their sins by the Sacrifice of Himself in enduring the Wrath of God on their behalf. Which Sacrifice, God very clearly says was EFFECTUAL "FROM THE FOUNDATION OF THE WORLD", Rev 13:8, Heb 4:3. And that there was NO EFFECACY whatsoever in the Ceremonial Laws from the perspective of Salvation. So the Salvation of anyone in the OT was by God's Mercy and Grace Alone; and not in any way through the keeping of the Ceremonial Laws, or of any Law of God. Just like the Salvation of anyone during the NT times.

God did NOT write the Bible in a way that it can be understood like any other book. He wrote it in a way that we can only come to Truth as we compare scripture with scripture, allowing the Bible Alone to be its own Interpreter and our only Authority. When we do this we find a consistency and cohesiveness regarding God's Salvation Plan for Mankind throughout the history of the world and we find harmony throughout the Entire Bible teaching us about the Nature of Salvation.

Also keep in mind Dan 3:4 and Habakkuk 2:3

God is good all the time I just love the lord I know God hears my prayers and I'm never alone because if my God he's turned my life around i went from being an addict to a recoverying addict thank u lord god

God is good all the time I just love the lord

Concerning 'The Word of God' and the use of the word 'Bible'.

The word 'Bible' is not used anywhere in the 'Word of God'. It is just another word for 'book' that was regarded as authoritative, and history has shown that it started to be used to describe 'The Word of God' not until 220 AD.

John 1:1. In the beginning was the Word and the Word was with God, and the Word was God.

2 Peter 1:20. Knowing this first, that no prophecy of the scripture is of any private interpretation.

Acts 26:18. To open their eyes, and to turn them from darkness to light, and from the power of Satan unto God, that they may receive forgiveness of sins, and inheritance among them, which are sanctified by faith that is in me.

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All Vain Janglers,

Imitators and Licentious Persons,

Shut out of the Scriptures who are Not

Guided by the Same Spirit that Gave them Forth

By one who desires the redemption of souls out of Satan's wiles, James Nayler

Cease your vain janglings, you that take the Scriptures to contend with against the truth but live in your lusts; with a vain mind do you contend about the Scriptures and saints' conditions, but you have naught to do with them, you unholy ones; for holy men of God spoke them forth as they were moved by the Holy Ghost; and the kingdom of God consists not in words but in power. Now all you who talk of the Scriptures and saints' conditions but live not in them, you are shut out of the Scriptures and kingdom of God and are in the kingdomsc of the world, whose kingdom is in words, but not in life and power, who saith and doth not. You have long covered yourselves by talking of the Scriptures and professing other men's conditions; but now the truth is appeared, and your deceit is laid open, and your covers are too narrow, for words can no longer hide you, for the righteous Judge is risen to reward everyone after their works, and not after their words. And you workers of iniquity of all sorts, you are shut out of Scriptures and kingdom of God, you that live in your hearts' lusts and in your own wills; what have you in the Scriptures? for no prophecy of old ever came by the will of man, but they witness against all who

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are guided by their own wills.d And you unholy ones, what have you in the Scriptures? they belong not to you, for they were holy men that spoke them forth. And you that are led by your carnal wisdom and reason, and not by the movings of the Holy Ghost, what have you in the Scriptures, for they were given forth by the movings of the Holy Ghost; and they condemn you and your ways, who are not guided by the same Spirit that gave them forth. And you who take them to plead for sin, and live in it, what have you to do in the Scriptures, who use them quite contrary to the end for which they were given forth? for they were given forth by holy men from the Holy Spirit, for holy ends, and they condemn you and your practice, and you are shut out of them who would use them to uphold the devil's kingdom and your own lusts. You envious scorners, backbiters, and false accusers, you are shut out of the Scriptures, and they condemn you. Swearers and liars, the Scriptures have shut you out, and by them you are condemned. You drunkards, gluttons, whoremongers, and unclean persons, what have you to do to talk of the Scriptures, which holy men gave forth, they witness against your filthy practices. You

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covetous and proud oppressors, you are rasede out of the Scriptures and saints' conditions and are found amongst the heathen. You fighters, quarrellers and violent persons, who live in strife and contention, suing one another for carnal things, you are condemned by the Scriptures and shut out of them. You wanton lustful ones who live to the flesh in your sports and pleasures, you are witnessed against by the Scriptures and have no right in them. And you hypocritical professors of all sorts and forms, who have got the saints' words and worshipsf in notion and form, but live not the life of saints, nor led by that Spirit that gave forth the Scriptures and by which the saints were guided and sanctified, you have naught to do with the Scriptures; they were not given out to imitate and jangle upon, but to be fulfilled: not to talk on and live in the world's ways, words and customs and fashions in your own wills, lusts and pleasures; for they that spoke them forth were come out of the world and did witness against all the ways and worships of it; and they spoke notg other men's words from the letter, ash you do; nor did they imitatei other men's practice, but by the eternal spirit were they guided into the

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piritual worship, and by that spirit did they speak forth the Scripture; not to the world or formal professors, butj to such as had denied the world, and had given themselves up to be guided by the holy Spirit in holy ways: and they spoke their own conditions, and their own measures, holding forth to others, what they had received of God, and not what others had received; and their kingdom stood not in words but in power. And here are you shut out of the Scriptures and their conditions, who say and do not, and your kingdom is in words, and not in life and power; you hypocrites, and formal imitators, who worship by what you imagine and conceive from other men's words, but have it not from the same Spirit that they had. You are shut out of the Scriptures, and they witness against you and your imagined ways and worships. You that preach and pray, and not by the movings of the Spirit of God, you are shut out of the Scriptures, and your invented words and long prayers are condemned by them to be heathenish; and all your ordinances, your singing and sacraments which are not in

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the same Spirit, is condemned by the Scriptures; and whatever you do in your worshipsk to God, and not in the power and guiding of the same eternal Spirit, the Scriptures witness against you and your worship, and declares you to be led by al contrary spirit, which is not the same, and you are among the heathen who worship in vain, and receives no acceptance from God, for you receive for doctrines the commandments of men, & your fear towards God is taught by the precepts of men, & not by the Spirit, & what you have is by tradition; and here you are shut out of the Scriptures. Wherefore cease your tattling of other men's conditions inm the scriptures, and see what right yourselves have in them; and mind to see what you are, and what the saints were, and apply your own conditions and promises to yourselves, and not other men's.n And cease your stealing, you thieves that have found out other ways to climb up, and not in at the door by which the saints have always entered, for all that come in at the door witness against you and your stoleno words and forms; and by that Spirit that leads in at the door are you discovered to be thieves, and judgment is coming against you, and you shall restore fourfold for all you have stolen and shall be brought to poverty for all your riches, and youp first shall be last of all

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And you hirelings and parish masters who bear rule by your means over your hearers, what have you to do to talk of the Scriptures, as to declare the statutes of the Almighty, since you hate to be reformed or to come into their condition that gave them forth: you trade in the letter for gain but are not conformable to them that spoke it forth; it was not given forth by any that made a gain of it for carnal ends to get riches; no, they that gave it forth bare witness against your generation, to be hirelings, covetous, proud boasters, greedy dumb dogs, idol shepherds that could never have enough, belly-gods, such whose teachings never brought any to the knowledge of the truth. Ravening wolves in sheep's clothing, who had the form but not the power; now what have you to do with the Scripture or the saints

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conditions,q to talk them over to people for money, you are shut out of the Scripturesr; cease your stealing that which was other men's, and take your own in the Scriptures, which are the woes and plagues pronounced against your generation by them who gave forth the Scripture, and sell that to your hearers, for the saints conditions you are strangers to, and you have no inheritance in them but are found without, amongst them who professed the letter but were enemies to that Spirit that gave it forth; and you are found doing the same works now, stirring up the powers of the earth against them in whom that Spirit is manifest; as did your fathers, so do you, and fill up their measure, that upon you may come the sufferings of all the holy men of God. And here you are shut out of the Scriptures and are ignorant of that Spirit that gave them forth and the ends for which they were written; and you take those promises that were given to holy men, and

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you apply them to such as live in theirs filthiness; and those Scriptures that were written to warn people from sin, you take and wrest to make people believe that they shall never be set free from sin while they live; and thus being ignorant of that Spirit that gave forth the Scriptures, you are led by a contrary spirit and so contradict the Holy Spirit; and God in wisdom hath hid the mystery of the Scripture from that spirit that acts in you, and hath shut it out and you with it. And hence it is that when you meddle with the Scriptures you are in such confusion and sets one scripture against another, and then twine and wrest and add to your own invented meanings to reconcile them again; but they who are guided by the same Spirit that gave them forth sees your folly, and that the Scriptures are at unity, and so are all that come into them to live the life of them in their measures, but you are without the life of them, and your kingdom stands in words and not in power and therefore is confused, and you lead into confusion all that follows you. Wherefore all you that fear the Lord, mind not words but the power, and believe not men because they run rambling up and down the Scriptures, but see what right they have in them, which is no more than they live the life of them; for while you follow these you are kept out of the kingdom of God, and feed upon words and wind; but the kingdom of God consists not in words, but in power and life.

Please pray fervently for our family finances, especially some very immediate needs. Thank you.

Thank you for letting us know John. There is good and knowing. That Jesus hears our prayers. Hallelujah praise be to our god and Father who cares for us all, in Jesus name. Always stand ready and help where you can. Acts 6. Love you in Christ. Stay strong in the Lord.

please remember me and my family today in your prayers

Oseas. You wrote, "The Law was established to put a moral discipline among the people which GOD had freed from Pharaoh's yoke." Of course, the Law did just that & of course, they had to obey it PERFECTLY. Wasn't this so? If it wasn't so, why did they suffer punishment or be killed - why not just keep a set of rules for them to follow the best way they could? The Law represented God's Standards for His people & failure to do so meant punishment - and fail they did. None could keep His Law perfectly, or else there would be no need for the sacrifices each year for the people & for personal sins. So the Law presented a "moral discipline", but also showed the condition of the human heart & the weakness of the flesh when they failed to obey God.

When Paul wrote about the Gentiles & their law & conscience ( Romans 2:14,15), he was referring to humanity's inner 'coding' in the conscience by which they know the right & proper things to do (in relation to each other & before an unseen God). These never received any of God's Laws, but their hearts will be judged because they couldn't even obey the dictates of their own consciences. So, both the Jew (with the Law), and the Gentile (without the Law, but having that inward law operating), stand condemned for their sins. The battle wasn't "between God & the Devil in having the dominion of the people", for Israel could never obey the Law anyway, as Satan would always have the victory. The battle was within Israel's heart - a heart of sin, subject to sin's demands upon them, & given over to Satan. See Paul's account of this in Romans 7:7-14 (the Law revealed his sin; he then died spiritually because of it - nothing to do with God's battles). Instead of fighting the Devil for souls, God provided His Own Sacrifice & His Own Spirit to redeem sinners.

You mentioned 'interpretation by the Spirit' & then "they died by the letterincluding the gods". Do you actually understand Psalm 82:6,7 & Isaiah 41:23, when you write these things?

Hi Chris

I think you need to reestudy more deeply because the Law was not given by GOD to Israel to give life to them, GOD knew of this, of course. Neither to lead them to death, this was not the point of GOD. The Law was established to put a moral discipline among the people which GOD had freed from Pharaoh's yoke.

The GOD's people developed and grown up exceedingly in Egypt, and in the way of desert they were living as brute beasts, and the idolatry of Egypt was in their heart. So to walk among them, GOD established the Law: The 1st: Thou shalt have no other gods before me; no image, no bow down to them; not take my name in vain; keep the sabbath day;Honour thy father and thy mother:not kill; not commit adultery;not steal;no false witness, and not covet.

No, God's Standards, showed not the nature of sin by the Law. Sin would be to disobey GOD, this is correct. Nor GOD's Standards showed the condition of the human heart, the Law would never do that. Actually, GOD laid down the moral Law and just required obedience, that's it. The sin would be to disobey GOD.

You say they were inability to fully meet the Law's demands. No, it' was not about inability to obey Law's demands, even Paul said that "the Gentiles, which have not the Law, do by nature the things contained in the Law, these, having not the law"; So Israel, that was the body of Moses, with the presence of GOD among them could perfectly to LITERALLY obey the Law. The battle was between GOD X the Devil in having the dominion of the people.

About the Bible's letter it"is NOT a stumbling block;it is the very(written)Word of God,given by the Spirit & enabling that Word to be applied to the believer", BUT only if it as long as it be interpreted by the Spirit, otherwise, if interpreted by the letter, it is a stumbling block, yes, and it kills exactly as the Devil did- Genesis 3:1- and they died by the letter and die to this day, including the gods- Psalms 82:6-7 combined with Isaiah 41:23.Take a look.Very deep

What does it mean peace of God which surpasses all understanding

Hello, Giannis,

You are welcome, and thank you also for the additional information you provided along the way!

Blessings to you also my brother!

Hi Strobe. In Genesis 3:20, Adam named his wife 'Eve' (Hebrew, Chavvah), as this name means, "life, or living". You might remember that Adam first called her 'woman' (Ishshah, Genesis 2:23), meaning, 'woman, female' (as one coming out from man), but then he named her, Eve. We aren't told what prompted Adam to now call her Eve; probably, he saw in her the God-given capacity to reproduce & hence be the progenitor of others of their type, not being created in the way God had done for them. So this verse then strongly implies that there were no living humans before Adam & Eve, as Eve was our very first Mother & all in the world must come through her line & manner of birth (not creation).

Thanks for your comments Oseas. I can see that we read & understand the Bible in differently. You write: "the letter kills, I would say "letters" are the tree of the knowledge of good and evil". In writing about the 'letter kills', Paul (in 2 Corinthians 3:6) is contrasting the Letter of the Law given to Israel, which could never give them life, but only lead to death. There was nothing wrong with the Commandments of God: they showed God's Standards, the nature of sin & condition of the human heart, & their inability to fully meet the Law's demands. "But what the Law (the Letter) could not do, in that it was weak through the flesh, God sending his own Son in the likeness of sinful flesh, and for sin, condemned sin in the flesh" ( Romans 8:3).

And when His Son paid sin's price, the Letter of the Law had no more hold on those who looked to Him & not to the Letter to save them. God's Spirit was given to believers, who would now be subject to the Spirit: "For the law of the Spirit of life in Christ Jesus hath made me free from the law of sin and death" ( Romans 8:2). So, the letter of the Bible is NOT a stumbling block; it is the very Word of God, given by the Spirit & enabling that Word to be applied to the believer. If we dismiss the Word of God as just being 'a letter (a tree if knowledge)', then we must also dismiss that the Word is "God-breathed", yet we must obey it 'to the letter'. If we don't, then we can do whatever we want with it, even as we see the behavior of many so-called believers. Let's not try to be so tuned to the Spirit so as to avoid the very Words that the Spirit has given us for our understanding & obedience. The Holy Spirit will never ask us to do or behave in a way that is inconsistent with the revealed Word of God.

As far as the 'root of sin being the sound of words by a lying tongue', the Devil might be the author of sin, but we can (as the Lord Himself did) choose to listen & obey him or not. Sin lies at our door - the door of our heart.

I agree with this FrankieJ. One experience I have had is my own flesh still wants to be a king in Babylon even after finding an assurance of Salvation by the mighty peace of our Lord Jesus Christ. So we share.

Thank you FrankieJ! Even Daniel who died in faith lived in the flesh in Babylon. The warfare that continues is between the flesh and the Spirit. Our heart cannot be in this world or we are trying to serve two masters. So it is spiritual vs natural. Only until we die we need by the Grace and peace of God in Christ keep His peace while in the flesh in its darkness and His marvelous Light. We, however do not by our own flesh want to give honor of the power of Christ to any part of this world. We can love our neighbor because He first loved us in saving grace. Honor the True King. He left us in the conquered world for His purpose for a time. His Kingdom is present and Spiritual if we only believe until the end.

Hi Michaelstephen,

I agree when we die this life is over, we are no longer in the time we live in, minutes, hours, days, and years for there is no knowledge in death. That is why death in the Bible is called sleep, Psalms 13:3 Daniel 12:2. It is like when we go to sleep we do not have any knowledge of time or what is going on around us. When we die it is like we go to sleep and the next thing we know is when we are resurrected, we awake from death, whether it is a day, or thousands of years.

God bless.

RLW

Thank you brother. Your comments & research have prompted me to be more alert to the Greek texts (& possibly Hebrew as well), ensuring that a diligent rendering be made to the KJV (TR).

Ellen White?