All Discussion PAGE 337

I want to follow Jesus Christ. Please pray for me and my family .

Hi Carleton,

That is beautiful, as an old man that gave me chills. I totally agree that the Son of God came forth before anything that is. He was before the angels, before any creation, He is the beginning of creation, He is begotten, the only Son of God who came out from God and all that is, is by Him and for Him. Scripture does not tell us how he was begotten, born, or came out of God but He had a beginning.

My understanding that is not what John 1 is about, God has no beginning or no end, Jesus the Son of God is begotten He had a beginning, if not He would not truly be the Son of God. That beginning, (In the beginning) was before everything that is. He is the "Alpha and Omega, the beginning and the end, the first and the last" It started with the Son of God, and it will end with Him.

Thank you again for having this conversation still going through the Scriptures you posted.

God bless,

RLW

Necesary experiental faith (continued)

There should be; based on comments on my last post a sense of us being new creatures in Christ. In order to share the hope within us a testimony should be something we have "in and out of season." ( 2 Tim. 4:2). At least as important as how we first came to faith is a continuing testimony of our sanctification; and in particular how He has been faithful to us; often through answered prayer and circumstances of trials meant for our good. Let the reader look up the verses on God's chastisement for those He loves. We should if growing in God a healthy respect for that and should be able to testify how we have learned appreciation for such measures because it demonstrates His lovingkindness. (I am still working on finding it all joy to face various trials as James 1:2 exhorts).

Such "mundane" things related to family and God working things through those relationships is just as important as we find on a foreign mission field as it is part of our mission field. The same can be said; of course of our vocation and even recreation (hopefully where we have opportunities to share with those we hang out with and have similar interests). It is always facinating to me to see how God uses different individuals with different giftings to fulfill His purposes. There tends to be an unhealthy skew towards those with say a teaching gift if and when those with wisdom or discernment should be allowed to contribute helpful things to build up the church. For instance; a Pastor IF they are teaching truth will realize when someone is coming into the camp with doctrine contrary to scripture; but a discerning person can sense evil very fast and can preempt certain damage being done. From a practical viewpoint Pastors need to delegate responsibility much as Moses did after Jethro's good advice.

In short doctrinal truth needs to accompany the Spirit; lest we be as the Ephesians and lose our first love or preach another gospel to our ruin.

Experiential faith: A proper balance

The other day I shared a bit how God appears to have revealed things to me through a dream and subsequent circumstances. I can only think of 2 other dreams that seemed to have showed me something. One was the night before my Grandmother died warning her that she would stand before God; the other about donuts when at a retreat; and when I woke up they found 5 bucks and bought a box of donuts for us. Some admittedly seem to dream more than others things of significance others seem to have insight or visions into the future.

Although I don't subscribe to the total Cessationist mindset I certainly don't want to cause unnecessary division here to those who do in regard to spiritual gifts. My focus here is on what is NECESSARY to experience which is the Holy Spirit convicting us of sin; righteousness and judgment to come (if I have it memorized John 8:6 or something to that effect). We must learn to recognize His voice as His sheep and also other influences whether they be our own vain imaginations or that of demons influencing us. We must comprehend that we are not who we used to be; and that of course is helped by testing ourselves to see if we are in the faith. (again I'll let you guys find that verse man my memory is bad). Without the Spirit scripture simply doesn't come alive to us; and also the Divinity of Christ isn't comprehended (see Christ's comment to Peter on that subject).



Discernment I will say is necessary today; and I would also say that is needed for casting out demons which is also needed today. Nonetheless the GRIEVOUS abuses and fraudulent manipulations of obvious gibberish with the same few words and phrases in tongues; and the handful of physical healings with proper corroborating evidence; etc. along with other hoopla and often demonic Kundalini type movements make many clearly be a stench to God. The fruit of the lives of preachers; the integrity or lack thereof of the Word are 2 big issues.

OK, I'll do that sometime dear Texsis when I get some free time. Thanks. GBU

Hello Ronald, I still have a little time on this end of the week and possibly more time later this week. Just to throw in the mix is a writing I found and support.

"we are comforted through the mercy of God and of the Lord, Jesus Christ and believe the gospel of John 3:16, namely, that God our heavenly Father in his unfathomable mercy has given us his only begotten Son Jesus Christ as a Redeemer and Savior, who fulfills for us all the righteousness of God, has taken away all of our sins, appeased the wrath of God, established peace between God and us, and has conquered Satan, the world, hell and death for us, etc. For he is the promised Seed who crushed the serpent's head, the Seed of blessing, in whom all generations of the earth are and shall be blessed that believe in his name.

He is the true Messiah, our King and High Priest who by the one holy offering of his body and blood has reconciled his people with God. He is the Throne of Grace established by God for us, whereby we draw nigh to God, and have free access unto him by the Holy Spirit. He is our horn of salvation, and in short, our eternal life. For there is no name given us under heaven whereby we may be saved but by his name alone."

So my thought on the origin of the Word that it proceeded from God in the beginning was before the Word was made flesh.

Jema,

I am not offended in any way. Your argument is not with me, it is with the Word of God and God Himself.

But if Christ is not God, He cannot be our Savior and we are still in our sins and subject to the Wrath of God.

And that is not a gospel I would ever want to associate myself with.

I can't think of a more serious question for anyone to resolve.

May God lead you into truth as you search His Word.

I just wanted to say that God is good, today. I'm thankful for his great Grace and mercies towards me. God Bless you all 1st Corinthians Chapter 12 Body of Christ Christians.

Father I'm asking for us and all in need. Please grant salvation to our unsaved loved ones and all the unsaved. Deliver those in bondage. Protect us and our loved ones. Guide us Father and us to bear good fruit and plenty of it. Its been so tough lately for so many. So many enemy attacks but you said in your word that the battle belongs to the Lord. Please rise up Lord. We need you. Father please send the Holy Spirit for Jesus' sake. And Father you know the specific requests we are raising up to you. Please send breakthrough. Praise and glory and honor be unto you. I pray in your holy name Lord Jesus. Amen

Hi Jema,

Sory for the delay, thank you for your reply like you said it is a very contentious subject with roots that are 1600 years old and nowhere in Scripture is salvation based on it. That was done in the Athanasian Creed in 415 AD. I want get into all that.

Thanks again and Truth Will Out.

God bless,

RLW

Hi Giannis,

Sory for the delay, thank you for your reply, I agree with the word, and it being translated Easter is no big deal it does not change the meaning of what was going on. Easter is one day, and Passover is one day, and it is a preparation day, it is not a feast. The Passover meal is eaten on the night of the 15th of Nisan not on Passover day the 14th. When Luke wrote Acts, Easter was not a Christian holiday, it would have been resurrection day or the Feast of Firstfruits.

When they translated it, Easter was a Christian Holiday that is the question why. Thank you for your knowledge of the Greek language you are a blessing to us on this site.

God bless,

RLW

Dear David0921 , I'm sorry if I shocked you :) . In the Christian company that I keep , in the real physical world , I don't know anyone who believes that Jesus is God , so there are plenty of people who don't believe this , I suppose birds of a feather flock together . I have read the Bible very many times , so I'm aware of all the scriptures that people will quote when they assert that Jesus is God and I almost understand why people believe this . However , if I ever come to that conclusion myself , it will be because the Bible has convinced me , not because a person has convinced me . Please don't be offended by my honest expression , I like to be honest when I'm asked about my beliefs . We could go back and forth all day quoting scripture to each other but I'm guessing that neither of us will change the others mind and I would not insult you by trying . I imagine that you would also need to be convinced by what you read for yourself in the Bible , just like me :) . For what it's worth to you , I shall give you just a few of the scriptures that seem to me to very clearly state that Jesus is the Son of God and not God Himself : 2nd Corinthians Ch5 V19 , John Ch14 V9-11+20 , 2nd Corinthians Ch1 V3 , Ephesians Ch1 V3 , 1st Peter Ch1 V3 , John Ch9 V3+4 , John Ch10 V37+38 and John Ch14 V10 . Thanks for listening , I very much enjoy your posts and don't really wish to get into a lengthy debate on this subject , if I ever change my mind on this subject , I will come on here and announce it I promise :) .

Hi Carleton,

I have been reading and studying the Scriptures you have posted, I will touch on a few, by the way, great work. Again, I know my understanding may be different and I do not want to offend, I do thank you for this discussion.

John 1:4 "In him was life; and the life was the light of men." This life came from the Father,

My understanding of this, it is part of John's prolog to his gospel as John writes, "In the beginning" is the beginning of Jesus's ministry, not before creation. Mark used it in Mark 1:1 also in Luke 1:2 and John uses it again in 1 John 1:1 "From the beginning" he is again talking about the beginning of Jesus's ministry, "the Word of life" which was the eternal life from the Father, John 5:26. This life is that light that shined and the darkness comprehended it not.

John 1:14 And the Word was made flesh, and dwelt among us, (and we behold his glory, the glory as of the only begotten of the Father,) full of grace and truth."

Jesus the true only begotten Son of God, who came out from the Father John 16:27. He was sent by the Father, Galatians 4:4 from the glory of the Father, the same matter, and divinity as the Father, and the Word was made flesh, born of a virgin and walked among us. We see in Revelation 19:13 His name is called The Word of God. Full of unfailing love and obedience to the Father, God was manifested in Him on earth 1 John 1:2 1 John 4:2 1 John 4:9. Jesus was filled with the Holy Spirit without measure.

John 3:34 For he whom God hath sent speaketh the words of God: for God giveth not the Spirit by measure unto him.

Will study more of your posts and reply, if you want to continue the conversation, I understand your time is tight.

God bless,

RLW

Yes, Jema, I have found it a huge blessing to have been led to this site. So much encouragement and exhortation from others that have helped me examine my faith and to examine what others say by the Scriptures. I am thankful to those who contribute on here, make their prayer needs known, and those who pray for these and for those who with us on this site, whether they are frequent posters or silent readers. You have blessed me with your thoughts. Thank you.

Hello again Chris and thank you for responding.

I don't have much of anything to add to what I've already said. But I do want to emphasize some things.

Your view of OT Salvation is a Gospel of Grace plus Works. In that while the OT Believe was saved by Christ's Atonement their obedience to the Ceremonial Law contributed to their Salvation in some way. And that is not possible based on everything we read in the Bible about the Nature of Salvation. Salvation is by God's Grace ALONE. It is 100% the work of God. Remember the man who picked up a few sticks in Numbers.

In John 3 where Jesus is talking with Nicodemus about Becoming "Born Again", He was clearly expecting Nicodemus, a teacher, a Pharisee, someone that should have been familiar with what was required for Salvation in the OT, to have understood this as a MASTER OF ISRAEL. John 3:10 Jesus answered and said unto him, Art thou a MASTER OF ISRAEL, and knowest not these things?

This idea of OT Believers going to a place called Hades when they die is not taught in the Bible. I know that you want to put your weight on the story of Luke 16 about the Rich Man and Lazarus. But when we examine that story very carefully we know for a certainty that it is not talking about a possible historical event. That story is NOT a "historical parable" it is a "parable" like many that Jesus told when on earth to teach some Spiritual Truth. Nowhere does the Bible teach that someone "buried" has "eyes" to see or that there could be any communication with Abraham who is in Heaven. The Bible just absolutely does not teach that. Nor does the Bible anywhere teach that OT Believers go to a place called Hades when they die.

So, forgive me for being so bold and presumptuous, but it seems to me that your Dispensational view of the Scriptures forces you into an understanding of God's Judgment and Salvation Plan for Mankind that is complex and convoluted. And prevents you from seeing the consistency and cohesiveness throughout the Bible.

Well said, Amen. I also wanted to ask that you subscribe to (or just watch) 'Rapture Revealed' by Pastor Robert Breaker. He tells all about the order: Rapture, 7 yr. Tribulation, Armageddon then the 1,000 yr reign. Was reading a post from a year ago and you have the order different then he tells.

Good Morning, Fred

Yes, we are often called to wait in the Spirit for an answer to prayer to come or for the fulfillment of a calling to ministry. Learning how to wait on Him is a challenge. What do we do in the time of waiting?

What changes are we to make in this time of waiting? Are we to just "carry on" our normal life until the waiting time is completed?

There can be many types of instances where we are to wait for what the Spirit has led us to expect. The disciples had not been told not to go fishing after they had seen the resurrected Lord in the Upper Room nor did they where not told when Jesus would come to them again. But before His ascension He did come to them and opened up the Scriptures to them (OT) to show their meaning, how they typified Himself and how the prophecies were fulfilled in Him. Then Jesus blew on them and said to "receive the Holy Spirit" (which they did at that time). He then told them to wait in Jerusalem for the coming of the promised Spirit with power.

Living in the Spirit requires discipleship, after Jesus resurrection the disciples were not sure what to do next, so they went fishing! I wonder as Peter, James and John along with the rest, were unsure if the last 3 years with Christ would mean anything? Their thoughts accusing and excusing one another as they stared into the waters, wondering what's next?

We too, who have been called may suffer these things that concern who and what we will be.

Waiting on the Spirit, is the most important moment in any disciples life. When Jesus does appear, His spirit will make you dive into the waters of life,without concern for the consequences.

There will be this moment, which for some seems an eternity, and yet as Christ appeared in the storm, suddenly they would find themselves at the shore.

Waiting on the Spirit is the key to understanding when and how He shows up. when you understand these things, then you truly are on the doorstep of the kingdom of God! Repent and be Baptized

How did Christ heal the young man with palsy?

His friends letting him down before Christ ,Christ is sitting and waiting, perhaps even smiling as the dust clears as this person arrives before Him!

Why didn't Jesus touch him and let Him go? What instead would Jesus do and what would be the outcome?

Jema,

As I pointed out in another comment, we must be extremely careful when talking about the God Head, as our finite minds cannot fully grasp the Nature of Infinite God. We read the Bible and accept what we read by faith without attempting to go beyond that. And there is no question that Jesus, the Lord Jesus Christ, was and is Eternal God Himself.

I am a bit shocked by you statement. And that is absolutely not what the Bible teaches. In the first place if Jesus was not God, He could not have paid for the sins of anyone by enduring the Wrath of God, eternal death required by the Law of God and then have risen again.

Here are just a couple of verses that militate against what you are suggesting:

Speaking of Jesus, we read in Colossians 2:8,9 Beware lest any man spoil you through philosophy and vain deceit, after the tradition of men, after the rudiments of the world, and not after Christ. FOR IN HIM DWELLETH ALL THE FULLNESS OF THE GODHEAD BODILY.

And then in John 14:9 Jesus saith unto him, Have I been so long time with you, and yet hast thou not known me, Philip? HE THAT HATH SEEN ME HATH SEEN THE FATHER; and how sayest thou then, Shew us the Father?

And there are others, like John 1:1-5.

Now you do make a very interesting point about Jesus being called the "SON" of God, and "BEGOTTEN" of the Father. There is no question that Christ existed from Eternity past as Eternal God Himself and will continue to exist throughout Eternity future as Eternal God Himself. But it is fair to ask the question, When did Christ "become" the Son of God? Because the word "Begotten" signifies a "beginning". I submit that Christ became the Son of God when He rose from the Dead. But Jesus is referred to as the Son of God even before going to the Cross here on earth. Without getting into a detailed discussion, I think the case can be made that Christ was, very literally, "the Lamb slain from the foundation of the world" Rev13:8.

To be continued

Please pray for my granddaughter Mena. She is identifing as a boy.

In Genesis 1-4. Sons of God. I need a better understanding of these scriptures.

It seems as though, I keep hearing that the nephilin took women to marry. Had children.

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Dear Jema

After reading your post yesterday, my heart became heavy, in concern for you, I thought, such a tender & caring spirit, & yet very deceived. It would be negligent & uncaring on my part not to response with the following.

Please consider this as a exhortation to truth, as a token of His love for you, for whom Proverbs 3:12

You've stated

1The day that I'm not a sinner will be the day that I die,, ,,,,,,,,, if you live as a habitual sinner & die in that state, so will you be judged. Matt 16:27 Sanctification "making us holy" is on this side of the grave only.

2Being sinless isn't about obeying the law,,,,,, yes it is, The law of the Spirit of Life in Christ Jesus, that set us free from the law of sin & death. Which law is being led by the Spirit of God for these are the sons of God, & the Spirit of God will never lead one into sin. Friend, by your own confession you're not being led by His Spirit.

3It's about having Christ in you heart 24/7 & behaving exactly as He did, having a pure heart, being only good at all times in spite of the provocations & temptations of this life,,,,,,,yes, very true, but again by your confession you not & yet it is the Spirit of God that reveal this to you, as an invitation for you to live up too & where He invites He also empowers.

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4 If keeping the law made us sinless we wouldn't need Christ,,,,,,Christ came to fulfilled the law, & all those who follow Him in the regeneration fulfill the law too, by a higher law, the law of the Spirit of Life in Christ Jesus, which supersedes the law of the OT, through the Spirit of Grace which has appear to you, making you aware of your sins. He checks you in the provocations & temptations of this life & show you what not to do & what to do Titus 2:12 & if you'll obey, you'll sin not.

5Keeping rules doesn't give us the Spirit of Truth, this is a false statement, Acts 5:32 Gal 3:2 believe that it is He who is within you speaking to you & if you will surrender to His guidance, little by little, you'll increase in His Spirit, until nothing will be impossible for you Philippians 4:13

Jema,

The very essences of the salvation that Jesus gave His life for is to bring us back to a life of obedience. Hebrews 5:9

Thy kingdom come, Thy will be done on earth as it is in heaven,

Disobedience makes this impossible or to become a child of God

A personal testimony

Correct me if I'm wrong, I've read that you love all type of worldly music, I was once there. Being a Christian & doing this does not go together, Just like watching tv, it glorifies all the works of the flesh of Gal 5 feeds the carnal part in man which is enmity against Godly part. I was having the same troubling problems your facing & God began opening me to why I was so easily captivated by the devil at his will. Our eyes & ears are the windows to our soul & spirit, I was feeding my self with sin & death, 1Cor 10:21 2Cor 6:14 I pick up the Cross to it, so that I may become pure in heart, The Blood of Jesus reaches to the cleansing of the conscience/heart from the evil one. But we must become obedient & pick up the cross to all things that would defile it. & so will all do, who God has inspired to live 24/7 for Christ.

Remember; where He invites, He empowers.

In love & truth.

Yes ! Once again you put that so well , I balk at calling Jesus God because I too believe that he is the Son of God , God is the Holy One of Israel , The Lord of Hosts , the God of Abraham , Isaac and Jacob . He is eternal . He existed before Jesus was begotten by Him . I literally wince when people call Jesus God , I can't help it . This is a contentious subject so I shall run away now and hide for a while :) .

Page 2. David 0921

You state, "the Bible Alone and in its Entirety is, in fact, the ONE TRUE GOSPEL OF SALVATION". I do agree that the message of salvation for Israel is clear throughout the Bible, the message that would culminate in the Gift of God's Son for both Jew & Gentile. But I suspect that this Gospel of Salvation that is found in the whole Bible requires, as you suggest, that the Work of the Cross be applied to even those living in the OT, when in fact that Work hadn't begun. I don't believe that it applied to them, but it did apply to them at the Crucifixion & to those after it, when Jesus cried, "It is finished". Everything pointed to Him & culminated in Him - nothing before that. The Sacrifices might have pointed to Calvary, but until the Crucifixion took place, all sacrifices were necessary as part of the people's obedience & for their covering. All who were before the Cross remained bound to the Old Covenant of the Law from which there was no salvation.

I've stated often, that the old sacrifices couldn't save Israel, just as the ordinances given to the Church cannot save her, but those sacrifices performed 'hid' God's Face of Wrath & Judgement from them & carried them through till the time of Christ. If they died before then, their faith & obedience was sufficient to preserve them till Christ's Salvation affected them as well. I know that you don't accept this, rather, believing that the OT saints were born again by the working of the Spirit. I see nothing of this & will not pursue this matter. GBU.

Page 1.

Thanks David0921. I'm sorry that I did not address the Scriptures you gave earlier as my comment would have been too long.

So to Revelation 13:8: "the Lamb slain from the foundation of the world". I understand that the Lamb of God was to be the Sacrifice for mankind's sins, preordained/predestined even before the worlds were framed together. This verse's central point is that Jesus was brought forth as God's Lamb purely for the purpose of sacrificial death in demonstration of God's Love. Those who now under the Blood (OT & NT saints) are written in that Book of Life, otherwise referred to as the Lamb's Book of Life.

Mark 4:33,34 & Psalm 78:2: "parables". I understand that you equate the mention of 'parable' in these references as having the same meaning. That is not always the case. The parables that Jesus spoke were simple stories people could understand & relate to, but they pointed to the intended picture of the nature of God's Kingdom (which they could not comprehend).

The OT also had accounts given in a similar parable style (as in 2 Samuel 12:1-4; Isaiah 5:1-7; & others). But Psalm 78:2 you quoted (& in others), the Psalmist is not sharing just a story with a spiritual meaning, but some of the history of Israel which he hoped would stir the hearts & minds of his readers to learn from. So there is a difference in the meaning of 'parable', even as the Hebrew word, 'mashal' suggests, & Psalm 78:2 makes no suggestion to Jesus' use of such parables. To Page 2.

please remember me and my family in your prayers today please pray for my daughter Jessica and her young family

Hello Ronald

The grk for both Passover and Easter is Pascha, it is called the same whether the christian Easter or the Jewish Passover. So it is not really a wrong translation. The translators selected Easter for Pascha, though it would be more precise to select Passover since the verse is specifically referred to the Jewish feast.

Hi brother Giannis. Thanks again for your responses. To some of your statements:

"Why did God send the OT saints into Hades & not in Heavenif they were sinless, forgiven?" Firstly, I don't believe that to be forgiven brings on a state of sinlessness, whichever side of the Cross we are at. In fact, the only time we are sinless (freed from all sin) is when we enter Heaven, where no sin can reside. Secondly, I never see that Heaven is the destination of any of the OT saints - it had to be Hades, & of course the only view given us is that of the rich man & Lazarus. So, those who were disobedient to God/faithless in the OT, presumably went to the 'dark' side of Hades & those counted faithful & obedient, joined Abraham & the others mentioned earlier.

And so I agree, that Hades was, for some, a "temporary residence", till the Work of the Cross was completed & the New Covenant ushered in through His Blood. Their sins were now fully dealt with by that Sacrifice, just as ours are fully dealt with now post-Cross (i.e. we don't need a Hades 'stop-over', but our spirits - spirits now released from sin's grip - go into the LORD's Presence).

"Why did God order those sacrifices & things in the OT?" Mainly, as you said (& we all believe), that they were a shadow & pointed to the Supreme Sacrifice yet to come. And true, those Sacrifices could never deal with or erase sins, but were still required to be performed. Why? Just a pointing to Jesus, or also through obedience to every Command of God plus to the Sacrifices, could they be found acceptable? Their sins were now covered - God turned His Face from destroying them - He forgave them whilst they remained obedient & awaiting Jesus' Sacrifice that only could blot out & cancel their sin. If they remained under God's covering, they had to know His Forgiveness & continued blessing - for those who sinned/lived in disobedience, were not forgiven but faced His punishment or death since the blood of animals were of no use to them.