All Discussion PAGE 367

Dear Jema,

Thank you so much for replying to me and "clearing the air" so I can understand you better.

There are some here like you, who do not wish to enter into rigorous discussions, and there are some, like me, who do, not for the cause of being argumentative or to debate, but to engage in deep thoughts on topics that come up. Both approaches are fine and worthy of this forum. I, like you, love to give helpful answers to peoples' questions, to pray for those who request prayer (so glad for your good report from your doctor!) and for those who do not ask but I feel led to pray for, and hear and speak to lift people up. So, I think we have a lot in common, and we have some differences in personality, too, which is so normal. I always appreciate your postings and am glad that you, like me, have had a long time with the Lord and His words in Scripture.

Jema, I really do appreciate your response. Going forward will be much more comfortable for both of us!

The Word of God.

We read in (Hebrews, 4:12) "For the word of God is "quick" and powerful, and sharper than any twoedged sword, piercing even to the dividing asunder of soul and spirit, and of the joints and marrow, and is a discerner of the thoughts and intents of the heart".

The word "quick" is #2198; it means to live, (a-) live.

The Word of God is Alive!

Do we have the Word of God that's Alive today? If its only the original autographs then how could God use those to judge us?

How could we be judged (righteously) with what we have no way of reading, or studying? ( 2 Tim. 2:15) We are told to "Study to shew thyself approved unto God, a workman that needeth not to be ashamed, rightly dividing the word of truth". How do we study the original autographs? The word of truth is the KJB!

If we read ( Jn. 12:47-50) In v48 Jesus said "the word that I have spoken, the same shall judge him in the last day".

If we are judged in the last day by the words that Jesus spoke do you think God would provide those words for us in a (perfect) translation? I think so too!

That means those words would have to be in a book, or in a Bible today. Right?

If we read ( Rev. 22:18-19) v18 "For I testify unto every man that heareth the words of the prophecy ((OF THIS BOOK)) If any man shall add unto these things, God shall add unto him the plagues that are written ((IN THIS BOOK)).

v19 "And if any man shall take away from the words ((OF (THE BOOK) OF THIS PROPHECY)) God shall take away his part out of the book of life, and out of the holy city, and from the things which are written ((IN THIS BOOK)).

God cannot lie!

Changing the words? ( Jer. 23:36) "for ye have "perverted" the words of the living God" "perverted" #2015; it means to change.

( Ps. 12:6-7) Is God's promise to preserve His Words for all generations, FOR EVER.

If God preserved His Word for this generation through the translation of the KJB then where are we told how He did that in the Bible?

( 2 Pet. 1:19-21)

Truth matters!

GiGi,

Thank you for responding. And I do want to speak as directly as I possibly can to this question.

Other than perhaps the nature of salvation itself, there is no more important doctrine in my view than the nature of the Bible, the Word of God.

I'm not interested in getting into a discussion about the mechanics of how God used the human authors to write the Bible. Whether he dictated it to them or so work in their minds so that they actually wrote exactly the words that God wanted them to write, down to the very word itself.

But I believe, with every fiber of my being, is that in the original autographs, every single word in the Bible, is God's word. It is exactly the word God chose to use.

And God Himself is the only one that can actually open our understanding of the Bible as we apply the principles God declares in the Bible that we are to use in interpreting His Word.

And I believe that any other view of what the Bible is, would be a faulty view.

And, quite frankly, that is one of the primary Snares that virtually every church has fallen into, to one degree or another, and may be the primary reason God's judgment is upon the churches in our day.

I understand that is a difficult statement to accept for those that are in the churches today. And that is very sad Situation. But as are all things, this too is totally under God's control.

But if you go into any church today and compare it to what was being preached and taught and practiced within that church relative to 50 to 75 years ago, you might hardly recognize it, I am sorry to say.

Gigi , thanks for your post to me . I don't really enjoy getting into big debates with others on here , not specifically you :) . I usually just like to try and answer questions as best as I can , so I'm not ignoring you or anyone I promise . It's just that I mostly prefer to keep out of debates and just want to try help anyone who has a Biblical question , so no hard feelings towards you or anyone on here . If I'm interested in what someone has to say then I might reply to them to let them know I enjoyed or agreed with their post . My silence to you or anyone just means that I have nothing to add to your / their post that's all :) . I only have a small amount of time to spend on here so I have to prioritise , would like to thank everyone for their prayers , found out today that I don't have skin cancer :) .

David,

I am so glad you explained you belief to Chris here. That explains your statement Adam and I were seeking clarification from you. How you explained it here to Chris is clear to me now. I wish you would have said it this way to us when we asked for clarification, but I will accept that you clarified it to Chris instead of directly to Adam and to me.

So, in light of this explanation to Chris, I would say that we are in agreement that the words in Scripture are the words God willed to be written.

Thank you for explaining this to Chris so Adam and I can know your belief aligns with what we believe, too. Thank you for this communication to Chris.

Hi Adam , you said in your reply to me :

What David posted was

The Bible alone and in its entirety is the very word of God Himself .

My reply to you is , do you not believe that the Bible is entirely

the Word of God ?

Then you said to me :

This seems very close to

The Bible alone and in its entirety is ( God Himself ) .

My answer to you is no , it does not seem very close to that or anything else . It may seem very close to that in your mind but that's the only place that it seems very close to that .

I'm guessing everyone else who read that statement took it for what it was and didn't read anything else into it .

None of us can possibly be responsible , when we post something , for what someone else might think that it's seems very close to in their mind .

What David said and what you think it seems very close to , are two very different things . I'm not sure why you can't see that .

Hello Jema,

I hope you don't mind if I respond to you. I do not think that Adam nor myself were twisting what David had posted. We were seeking clarity and for David to correct our misunderstanding of his statement.

I understand what you said about feeling that some people on here are not safe to interact with. Perhaps you feel that way about me or about Adam. I hope not, but if so, I ask that you give us grace and hopefully we can work together to improve our mutual regard for one another. I certainly never intend to misrepresent anyone on here, but may misunderstand what others present.

I do notice that you rarely respond to me, so I thought that I may be one of those you don't feel is safe to interact with. If so, I am sorry for that. I respect you and your ideas, just like I do for anyone else. Yet, there are times where we all feel the need to bring forward how we disagree with another's posting and speak what we believe to be true. And sometimes we do need to address obviously false beliefs. I don't think that David falls in this category often, so I did want to explore his thinking on this topic with him in hopes of gaining a better understanding of what he really wished to convey.

Jema, I would love to hear from you, but understand if you wish to refrain. Let's work towards peace and unity.

OK David,

I do wish you had spoken to my request of which of the two beliefs I asked you about. But I take it from you directing me back to the Scriptures that you believe that the Scriptures in their original autographs are strictly God's words, not those of men.

So, then, if this is true of your belief, then I gather that you believe that God dictated the words to the men to be written. Is this true?

2 Peter 1:21 "For the prophecy came not in old times by the will of man; but holy men of God spake as they were moved by the Holy Spirit."

2 Timothy3:16 "All Scripture is given by inspiration of God and is profitable for doctrine, for reproof, for correction, for instruction in righteousness."

I believe what these verses declare, as I perceive that you do, too. I think there are two different stances on this topic. These are: whether God dictated His words in and through the Scripture writers or whether God guided these men through the Holy Spirit to write only what is true and sound words that accurately reflect what God wished to communicate to humanity through the writings of these men.

David, if you wish to respond back to this post, I would be happy for it. If you wish to let it lie, then that is fine, too.

Adam

Again, If you go back and read all of the comments that I posted in the conversation with Gigi, you will hopefully understand what I meant regarding your questions.

You are not correct when you say that I do not believe that the Bible is the Word of God. I believe that every single word in the Bible, in the original autographs, are God's words. They are exactly the words that God chose to use. I don't know how to be any more clear than that.

Adam,

If you are really interested in understanding what I was attempting to communicate, you would do well to read all of the comments that I posted in the discussion with Gigi. Rather than singling out and apparently misunderstanding, one specific statement, which I Believe is absolutely true.

David, can you also explain what you mean by your direct quote here?

David092: "But we cannot separate the worship of God from the Word of God."

The Bible is the Word of God, so this reads like: 'we cannot separate the worship of God from the [Bible]".

We now understand you don't consider the "Word of God" to mean the Bible, so what do you mean by this and what are scripture sources?

Hi Jema,

What David posted was:

"The Bible alone and in its entirety IS THE VERY WORD OF GOD HIMSELF"

This seems very close to:

"The Bible alone and in its entirety IS [GOD HIMSELF]"

So we asked him about it, but I felt pretty sure that's what he meant so I brought up many questions. I'm actually relieved he says he apparently doesn't believe that, but I still don't know what he believes nor do I understand any motives behind it.

If you were accusing some of us of "twisting" words just look at his words above as this is a valid question of someone posting such things on this website. I hope 2 Timothy 4:3-4 does not apply in this case, but we should be on guard against such teachings and defend the truth.

I agree Jema.

The "Sword" is often used by God as a figure of His Word. The Word of God is a two edged sword. It cuts both ways. It is the savor of life unto life and death unto death.

It is a beautiful example of how God speaks in Parables and "without a parable spoke He not".

Thank you Jema,

And I do try not take it personally when someone disagrees with me, regardless of how it is done.

The only thing that really matters is "what does the Bible, the Whole Bible, say" about any topic we may be discussing regarding God and His Word.

Good morning Chris.

I appreciate your chiming in on this subject and yes we have gone down this road in some of our past discussions regarding Biblical Hermeneutics and the nature of the Bible.

I fully acknowledge that when we attempt to articulate our understanding of any Biblical truth in our own words there exists the possibility of misunderstanding by the reader what we are trying to communicate. And perhaps that is the case here.

I certainly was not saying that "the Bible IS God, Himself". And if anyone believes that I was, they have misunderstood my meaning.

I am saying, as I have said many times was before, that every word, every verse, every passage, every chapter, every book, i.e. the entire Bible, is from the Mouth of God Himself in the original autographs, without getting into the mechanics of how God worked this out. And that the Bible does not merely "contain" God's Word in the words of its human writers.

As far as Bible translations, I'm convinced that the KJV is the most faithful word for word translation available in the English language. And, while not 100% error free, those instances are so few and far between that we can have confidence that we are reading the Words of God Himself. And God has also given us the tools to check out the KJV translation. This however was not the focus of my discussion with GiGi.

So I maintain that The Bible Alone and in its Entirety is the Word of God. And is the Ultimate Authority for doctrine and practice in our life.

Wow thank you.! Yes, I have dreams, that come true. What a blessing it has been as Im sure yur wife is as thankful. It helps to be persistant in spreading His word Tho at times I speak more from exsperience then from His word, I definitly mean well. Yet, for my own visions, Im not always sure who & never prepared for when it is put into motion. It took me years to understand judging & still learning so thank so much for yur help along w/the others. As humans we all do in some form or nother & thats why it is SO important for us to know & understand the true meaning of Christ DBR so we eventually, prayerfully, learn to let go & let God.! Nothing we can do about any happenings (even w/visions) for what is His will can not be changed by a human fretting for even a second. Lately, its a quick thought then my repenting starts. If she has tips on how to channel visions I'd be very interested to hear. As Im sure many ppl would. It could be her calling. Thanks to you both, blessings.!

It is a tactic used by some on here regularly . Take your own words , twist them around and throw them in your face . Try not to take it to heart and don't be soon shaken :) . We on here have seen it before many times , you will learn who it is safe to engage with and who it is that you are better off staying away from . May God bless you and us , with your continued presence on here .

Please remember me and my family today in your prayers

Monet333 God has touched your heart , never forget how that made you feel , remember it forever , the memory of it will bless you through out your life . We can easily get caught up in this world and forget even the awesome things that have affected us . Remember His connection to you today , you felt Him today didn't you ? I pray that you will always keep your heart open to recieve His message of love for you . He will never leave you .

With regards to the Word of God , I have always believed that the Word of God is also signified by the sword . It's an interesting study if you fancy it , that sharp two edged sword that will judge the nation's , the sword of the Lord and of Gideon , if you have a concordance you might want to look at the occasion's when the sword is mentioned , especially in Revelation and Ezekiel . Don't forget that sword that was placed at the gate of Eden . I believe that the Word is symbolised more than one thing , the obvious one being the Word made flesh which is of course Christ , I also believe that the sword often represents the Word of the Lord . Can anyone think of anything else in the Bible that might signify the Word of God ?

Hi David0921. I can see where that statement from you ("the Bible is the very WORD OF GOD HIMSELF") can be misleading. Some could read it as 'the Bible, which is truly God's Word, is God'. I read (by paraphrasing), ' the Bible is truly God's Word, spoken/authored by Him and given to us by Him (or Himself)'.

Maybe your strict emphasis on the words within the KJV being wholly God's Word (the exact Words spoken by God) rather than just a very good translation work into English, may color folks' understanding of your statement. We've discussed this aspect with the KJV before, & we find that our differences lie there, but to state that from our discussions & your other input, I believe that I've understood your statement in question, as you've intended.

n angel visits the priest Zacharias in a temple. Zacharias is married to an infertile woman named Elizabeth. The angel proclaims that Zacharias and his wife will bear a child who they shall name John. Zacharias explains to the angel that he is an elderly man. In response the angel simply says Zacharias will be unable to speak prior to the birth of his son.

Gabriel, yet another angel, appears to Mary who is wed to Joseph. Mary is told she too will bear a son who shall be called Jesus. This child will also become known as "The Son of the Highest". Mary decides to visit Elizabeth and when she does the unborn John moves within his mother's womb. Gabriel assures Mary that the Holy Spirit will pay her a visit. Mary sings great praises of the Lord.

Zacharias and Elizabeth are urged by many to name their new son after his father. They follow through with the original declaration and call him John. As promised, Zacharias is once again able to speak. In doing so he predicts that his son will bear the title of "The Prophet of the Highest."

Thank you Mr. Spencer for those verses.

I believe those verses and others that I quoted in the totality of my discussion with GiGi on this subject are consistent with and support what I have said about the Bible, the WORD of God and its relationship to our worship of the LORD Jesus Christ, eternal God Himself.

Thank you very much Chris.

GiGi,

I think I explained exactly what I meant in my response to you and Adam. And if you go back and read the entirety of my comments to you in our discussion, I quoted numerous verses that I believe support exactly what I said and what I meant.

I am disappointed in your characterization of what I said. But I stand by what I said.

And like you suggested, I am now going to leave it there.

May God richly bless you.

Adam,

You quoted my words and then stated what "I meant". And what you said "I meant" is a distortion of what I said and what I meant.

But I said what I meant and believe that is what the Bible declares. And I quoted many scriptures in the totality of my discussion with GiGi, which I believe support what I said.

If I am incorrect in anything I say about what I believe the Bible is teaching, I welcome correction.

It is exceptionally serious business to say "thus says the LORD" when the LORD has not said.

David,

Here is your exact quote from your post yesterday.

"The Bible alone and in its entirety IS THE VERY WORD OF GOD HIMSELF (in the original autographs). (Your caps)

So both Adam and I take this statement at face value that you are equating the Scriptures with God, especially Jesus who in john 1 is called THE WORD OF GOD.

If you do not believe this statement as we interpret it, then please explain what you really meant. If you did mean your statement to mean as we thought it meant, then please cite Scriptures that state this belief. For me, if you truly do believe that All of Scriptures, and each word in it, are in reality, God Himself in Jesus, the Word of God, then you are speaking of making what God created into an idol.

Hi David, i quoted your words and you replied and asked where you said that. Its now obvious that youre making a distinction between Gods word or word of God and the Bible. To me and many others its the same.

Youre claiming its bad for us to question what you said. I hope you are being genuine and not playing us. But review what you said. Whats the difference to you?

David.

Part 2.

This reminds me of John 6:60 when

many actually stopped following Jesus that day he said here in the Gospel of John 6:48-58.

Jesus three times identifies Himself as that spiritual bread ( John 6:35, 48, 51).

And twice He emphasizes faith (a spiritual action) as the key to salvation:

"My Father's will is that everyone who looks to the Son and believes in him shall have eternal life" (verse 40)

and "Very truly I tell you, the one who believes has eternal life" (verse 47).

Jesus then compares and contrasts Himself to the manna that Israel had eaten in the time of Moses: "Your ancestors ate the manna in the wilderness, yet they died. But here is the bread that comes down from heaven, which anyone may eat and not die" John 6:49-50.

The words I have spoken to you-they are full of the Spirit and life" ( John 6:63). Those who misunderstood Jesus and were offended by His talk about eating His flesh and drinking His blood were stuck in a physical mindset, ignoring the things of the Spirit. They were concerned with getting another physical meal, so Jesus uses the realm of the physical to teach a vital spiritual truth.

At the Last Supper, Jesus gives a similar message.

We are to proclaim the Lord's death until he comes"

1 Corinthians 11:26.

Jesus was speaking metaphorically about His flesh and blood and hold that the bread and wine are symbolic of the spiritual bond created with Christ through faith.

Man shall not live on bread alone, but on every word that comes from the mouth of God'" ( Matthew 4:4, quoting Deuteronomy 8:3). The implication is that the bread is God's Word and that is what sustains us. Jesus is called the Word of God who came to earth and was made flesh ( John 1:14). The Word of God is also the Bread of Life ( John 6:48).

God bless.

Who are the Isrealites today?