All Discussion PAGE 383

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Hi Friends;

As I read thru all the comments here, I said to myself, this is in itself a "wake up call" to all present. To come & try their faith, whether it be authored from God or not. Faith is a wonderous thing, it compel us to believe what we're reading & invokes a trust, in the things that we are reading is Truth. I've shared much on this present topic, as many here can witness too. It came to me as I was considering these conversations, that I haven't shared very much on how I came to receive this understanding that I now have.

1st little history from the past 15yrs, in 2008 I enter the most trysts time of my life, by 2009 my life literally disintegrated, I've started seeking the Lord with all my heart, soul, & strength, literately. I said to God, for once in my life I wanted to live wholly for the Truth that I then perceived was Truth. & so I did, gathering all sorts of present day books in a hope that they would help me. The hopes of my heart was to be set free from the sins & to know God, experientially. I read these Scriptures & knew that God who calls Himself the Word, would surely chose His words carefully in disclosing His heart & mind to us, I too, like Dan am a simple minded man. By Aug 2009 I enter ministry school with great expectations toward my hopes. I lived a fasted lifestyles, separated myself from frivolous conversations & fellowships. I took notice that were I was at, there was much lusty sinfulness happening here, more then were I had come from. In Jan 2010 I set myself to a complete fast, quit ministry school in which all my hopes were, & gave myself to Him. There was at present a war raging within me until the 3rd day, on the 4th morning I awoke in peacefulness, pickup my computer & there was a icon, saying false grace v true grace, so I click it. It led me to the writing of the people in scorn called Quakers, specifically between 1645 to 1700's.

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What they declared in their writing awaken the Witness within me, bearing witness to the truth of their writing with the proof, in their exercises of the Truth that God was please to bring them through for His eternal glory.

One of God's minister among them was William Penn, founder of Pennsylvania; He wrote a book, No Cross, No Crown, the first 8 chap gave me valuable spiritual insight in what it means to pick up the Cross, & following Jesus. I've started exercising this knowledge by practicing it in everyday ordinary life circumstances & found experientially that it is Truth, the teaching are witness by the Scriptures & sound reasoning. I learned that once light/knowledge is reveal, its not possessed, but is an invitation, to be exercised & possess, mental consent to Truth is not possession, but it must be an operational faith in the Word, Abraham the father of faith clear reveals this. this is engraftment, James 1:21-24 & becomes our inheritance, this is increasing our talent, His Spirit within us.

I have come to a state where I rarely read there writings, & dare not pick up a concordance, which in this transition from one state to present, God literally rebuke me for during so. He is my Teacher etc; an increasing becoming my all in all, I'm free from my sins that so easily captivated me to Satan will & now on my way to receiving the baptism of the Holy Spirit, that will thoroughly purge the threshing floor of my heart, discarding what chaff is remaining & to be gather to the Gardner, by abiding in the Vine. For I have learned from years of personal experience that without Him I can do nothing. Meaning being led by His precious Spirit, which is the foundation of their teaching. John 3:27

Seek Him who is within you, No Cross No Crown is a revelation on this very important endeavor in our freedom from sin & to truly know God, the way He desires to be known.

ps; its important to remember in these conversations, that 2 Cor 10:3-5 Ephesians 6:12

The Messiah's mission was both exclusive and limited,

Matthew 15:24 But he answered and said, I am not sent "Apo" (set apart) and "stello" (repress,retrain) but unto the lost sheep of the house of Israel.



Would be wise, and prudent to know, who those lost sheep, of the house of Israel are, and where.

Please pray for my daughter Rebecca's salvation. Paying off my credit cards and affordable car insurance. Thank you so very much for praying for me!!

Chris,

Correction.

In my reference to the translation of Romans 4, I should have said Greek instead of Hebrew; and Hebrew in the equivalent Old Testament passage.

Questions

When did Christ, eternal God Himself, the Lamb of God, complete the payment required for the sins of every True Believer, those whom God would save throughout time?

When was Christ, eternal God Himself, the "Son of God", eternal God Himself Begotten of the Father, eternal God Himself?

Is there any difference in God's Salvation of Old Testament Believers versus New Testament Believers?

How does what we read in Revelation 13:8 that Christ is "the Lamb slain from the foundation of the world" and Hebrews 4:4 "For he spake in a certain place of the seventh day on this wise, And God did REST the seventh day from ALL his works."influence our understanding about these questions?

My purpose in raising these questions is the Hope that God might cause us all to search the scriptures afresh regarding God's Judgment and Salvation plan for mankind, praying constantly that God Himself would open our understanding and lead us into truth.

Hello Dawn,

If we carry on reading into Genesis it gives us the answer.

Gen 4:25-26

25. And Adam knew his wife again; and she bare a son, and called his name Seth: For God, said she, hath appointed me another seed instead of Abel, whom Cain slew.

26. And to Seth, to him also there was born a son; and he called his name Enos: then began men to call upon the name of the Lord.

Gen 5:4,6

4. And the days of Adam after he had begotten Seth were eight hundred years: and he begat sons and daughters:

So God gave Adam and Eve another son Seth to replace Abel, and Adam had other sons and daughters. Back in those days we were closer to perfection so it was possible for Cain to take one of Adam's daughters (so Cain's sister) and have as a wife. Being closer to perfection back then there was no problem or complications with incest.

Remember too, Eve was made from Adam's rib. So Eve was a part of Adam and they did not have any complications baring Abel, Cain and Seth.

Gen 5:6

6. And Seth lived an hundred and five years, and begat Enos:

Also Seth had to do the same as his brother Cain and take one of his sisters as wife to bare Enos.

Hope that answers your question.

God bless and all glory to him.

Paul was still sinning after he was saved.....Simply b/c Satan had sown a Tare in his heart and mind making him sin.... Romans 7....If i do something that i do not consent unto, its not i that does it but sin that dwells in my members.....Jesus had forewarned us that this was gonna happen to anybody that had been impregnated with the good seed.....Satan was gonna come and sow a Tare an evil seed in us resulting in a warfare with in us.....Paul said when i wd do good evil is present with me....Which was making Paul sin.....With my mind i serve the law of God but with my flesh the law of sin....Paul had become 2 ppl in his mind.....1 good and 1 evil....1 wd be taken and 1 wd be left....His thorn in the flesh was the Tare that satan had put there.....Thats y God wd not remove it even tho Paul sought GOD 3 times.....Paul wd have to endure to the end of this warfare in heaven....Which was in his mind his thorn in the flesh.....But no condemnation to them in Christ Jesus.....

......We see another picture of this warfare in Rev. 12:5.....Satan wants to destroy this woman and her Child....(Paul and his anointing ) Simply b/c satan knows that this manchild which is the H.G. The anointing that spirit of truth is gonna reprove this world of sin and righteousness and Judgement......Thats y Paul was saying O Wretched man that i am.....Paul cd not control this Tare Satans seed that he describes as a thorn in the flesh.....Paul was sinning against his WILL.....thus no condemnation.

........ Rev 22:11.....He that is unjust let him be unjust still and he that is filthy let him be filthy still....Thats Satans seed the TARE that is within us. Warring against our minds...Violence in heaven.....Kingdom against Kingdom.

.......He that is righteous let him be righteous still ....And he that is Holy let him be Holy still..... But this is the wheat Jesus's good seed The H.G. that is at war with the Tares.....Thats y we must endure to the end 1 will be taken and 1 will be left....GB

Thank you for that explanation Chris.

But I think we understand Romans 4 in regards to Abraham differently.

First let me say my understanding is that the translation from the Hebrew to English here could have been done somewhat better; but I do not feel qualified to get into that.

Romans 4:5 But to him that worketh not, but believeth{belief BECAUSE God has saved us}on him that justifieth the ungodly, his faith{that is Christ's faith, Christ Himself} is counted for righteousness.

Galatians 2:16 Knowing that a man is not justified by the works of the law, but by the FAITH OF JESUS CHRIST, even we have believed{belief BECAUSE God has saved us}in Jesus Christ, that we might be justified by the FAITH OF CHRIST, and not by the works of the law: for by the works of the law shall no flesh be justified.

All True Believers throughout time are justified, i.e. saved by the faithfulness of Christ; NOT OUR FAITH. Our faith is a GIFT of God and is the RESULT of our Salvation and Justification; it is not the CAUSE nor the REASON.

And that was the case for Abraham and all Old Testament True Believers.

hi Gigi

ok, would you please give me scriptural references to back this train of thought of yours up.

in love & truth

Basic foundations of the daily walk of Christ on earth as an example for us today

PRAYER. The Lord's prayer wasn't meant to be a mantra; but exists in two different forms as an example of how to pray (and in that case as John the Baptist did). In the example of the Son of God; much prayer was done either early in the day well before sunrise; or at times ALL night long. This would prepare Him for what was necessary in casting out demons (such as the example where fasting was perhaps also needed). The public prayer during the day seemed to be mainly for the Disciples benefit; or for the crowds. The noteable exception was at Gethsemene; where the tension was palpable; and where Christ was in a life or death struggle and as a man was tenaciously attempting to get the attention of the sleeping Apostles; to little affect. We can't begin to comprehend what was going on there; none of us are called to die for the sins of others. The plan was predetermined in God's eternal counsels; nonetheless the agony was real; and despite all these pleas God only gave Him enough strength so that He wouldn't die before He got to Calvary. Very sobering stuff; to any unbeliever this would seem to be proof God wasn't real; and an apparent failure but of course it was a glorious thing to God for our benefit.

Anyway; prayers in private also; no doubt (before the garden) would be for the Spirit to give Him strength to continue to mentor the Apostles; to give Him strength with the persecution from various parties; and strength with the continual throng of crowds following Him wherever He went. Again; He would attempt numerous times to be alone; with the DIsiciples it often didn't occur; with Himself only sacrificing sleep in the night watches was a possibility. The enemy; no doubt would be working behind the scenes in all this (even with Peter); and the Pharisees who attempted to kill Him at least 10 times before the cross.

No doubt Paul spent much time praying and weeping

Continuing the subject of Christ's daily life on earth as an example of multiple gifts and responsibilities

I feel it is good once again before entering this subject in detail to stand back and examine Christ's sayings on counting the cost to be a Disciple ( Luke 14:28). Before that; I also thought that we should ponder our trust level with Christ; such as the example C.S. Lewis mentioned about Christ; "He is either a liar; lunatic or was who He said He was" (Mere Chrisitianity). This can be expanded as far as I can tell to what He said in regard to being a true Disciple. Again; with Paul's example we see a more extended campaign both in time and distance covered in his four major evangelical Mediterranean journeys. The assurance that the prize was reached wouldn't come until the end ( Philippians 3:12:14; compare with 2 Timothy 4:7-8 at the end of His life). We are also humbly reminded of how many fell away at the time when Paul needed them the most ( 2 Timothy 4:16) which is interestingly right after the aformentioned passage in Timothy.

These things are necessary to discuss because we dare not look just with curiosity at all the things Christ did. It is clear that; for the most part we are not going to do miracles the Apostles did. Also; most of us are laypersons; and involved with marriages; or employment and our focus is meant to be in our local churches. This shouldn't limit us; especially with gifts and callings of full time evangelism or other mission field opportunities (including short term ventures). Today; more than ever EXAMPLES of individuals mature in the faith are rare; so we certainly need to be building church members up to maturity; for their own sakes and that of the next generation.

Proverbs 16:9 shows how man plans His way; but God directs his steps. We can't do anything without the Spirit; and to multitask on the go as Christ did takes total trust to a new level in God's provision. It is also all out spiritual warfare.

A general study on a day in the life of Christ

In more careful investigation of scripture; it appears that there are accounts that clearly delineate happenings that occur within a 24 hour day; and others that continue a narrative that may or may not encompass multiple days or perhaps longer periods of time. I thought therefore that a general study of the variety of challenges the Lord faced constantly; along with the spiritual giftings of all types apparent to be active simultaneously ( Colossians 2:9) would be interesting as He had all the "fullness of the Godhead bodily."

His example; therefore as our High Priest ( Heb. 7:25; etc) means that we can live by His example and thus be "imitators of Christ" ( 1 Cor. 11:1). This; of course is easier said than done; impossible in fact in our own efforts ( John 15:5).

Paul; of course is a great; if not THE penultimate example of a surrendered life; and in many ways mirrors Christ in self sacrificial love and service to the church; through many trials; persecutions; and sufferings. These studies should convince anyone who isn't in a coma that today's mushy view of Christ as embodying some sort of feel good; crowd pleasing charisma that everyone loved is far off from reality. This study is greatly challenging to myself; and I assume anyone reading these scriptures as to what is truly required to be His Disciple. Ultimately; I believe this will be a characteristic of every true believer in some aspects; but in reality few surrender their lives enough to truly live in this manner. It is more than an inconvenient truth; the challenges Christ gives to all His followers but of course is as process in some ways as well. The Spirit sanctifies us; conforming us into His image ( Romans 8:29). Philippians 4:1 and some other verses shows us how His church was Paul's crown. This makes our rewards to be based on building up brothers and sisters in the Lord; and to focus attention there keeps us from focusing on our own issues.

The first situation would be two different accounts. God did create Eve from Adam's rib; although it was a part of him at first (bone of my bone; flesh of my flesh). ( Gen. 2:23). Whatever sense that meant when Adam was created is open to speculation; as to whether there was some part or essense there of what was taken out as part of Adam's being beyond something physical. The creation was done in such a way that God created both man and woman; but especially after the fall woman was to become subject to men; and men to God. There are some other duplicate listings in Genesis which would take a longer study to investigate; and I'm not sure entirely why. Anyway; the accountability after the fall (actually started with the serpent; then the woman; then the man). The man chose to listen to his wife ( 1 Timothy 2:14); so he deliberately rebelled rather than just being deceived according to this verse. In some sense then a typology of Christ and the church was established; namely the first Adam ruled over Eve; like the Second Adam over the Body of Christ (or His bride). So in some sense Eve was in the image of God; but came from Adam; whereas Adam came from the dust.

In both cases the breath of life would have come into them; in both cases they would have lived forever; and Christ came also to die for all men and women. I wouldn't say it is wrong to say that some characteristics of God can be found in women that may not be in man ( Galatians 3:28); but even before the fall a woman was made to be a helpmate; after it she would be ruled over by man ( Genesis 3:16) but in some sense desire to rule over her husband. Also there is no feminine deity; whether in the Godhead or; as far as we can tell in the angelic realm. However humans are created uniquely in comparison to the animal kingdom where there males and females would be created the same way.

Cain would have married one of the unnamed daughters of Adam and Eve; the easy answer.

HARMONIZING SCRIPTURE

These scriptures goes well with my previous post.

Colossians 2:10-15.

And ye are complete in him, which is the head of all principality and power:

In whom also ye are circumcised with the circumcision made without hands, in putting off the body of the sins of the flesh by the circumcision of Christ:

Buried with him in baptism, wherein also ye are risen with him through the faith of the operation of God, who hath raised him from the dead.

And you, being dead in your sins and the uncircumcision of your flesh, hath he quickened together with him, having forgiven you all trespasses;

Blotting out the handwriting of ordinances that was against us, which was contrary to us, and took it out of the way, nailing it to his cross;

And having spoiled principalities and powers, he made a shew of them openly, triumphing over them in it.



John 6:28-29.

Then said they unto him, What shall we do, that we might work the works of God?

Jesus answered and said unto them, This is the work of God, that ye believe on him whom he hath sent.

Psalms 32:1-5.

Blessed is he whose transgression is forgiven, whose sin is covered.

Blessed is the man unto whom the LORD imputeth not iniquity, and in whose spirit there is no guile.

When I kept silence, my bones waxed old through my roaring all the day long.

For day and night thy hand was heavy upon me: my moisture is turned into the drought of summer. Selah.

I acknowledged my sin unto thee, and mine iniquity have I not hid. I said, I will confess my transgressions unto the LORD; and thou forgavest the iniquity of my sin. Selah.

God bless

remember me and my family in your prayers today please

I believe David0921, that you have understood me correctly to a point. However, I'm not saying that Israel's salvation (a yet appointed time in the future), those who were faithful to the Lord was based on their works (i.e. obedience to the Law, sacrificial offerings, etc.), but that salvation would come to them (looking forward) by the merits of Christ's Death, just as for us post-Cross.

When I said 'works based', I didn't mean that they would be saved by their law-keeping, etc., for nothing they or we could ever do, would secure redemption. They only did what was required of them by God (which was based solely on works yet should have caused them to cleave to God trusting in Him alone). Were they saved by their works? If they were, then there was no need for Jesus' Coming. But those works (obedience, sacrifice) brought them into a standing before God, where the Blood of Christ could retrospectively be applied to them; these who had no knowledge of such a Redeemer, but only knowing sin & cast upon God's Mercies for the covering of that sin until their redemption (salvation). Hebrews 9:15, 'the called only received the promise'.

I don't know whether that explains it better, but your quote, "Salvation is by Grace alone" seems to not take into account what takes place before salvation is granted: how a person's life is directed, how & when the Gospel comes to him, or the drawing in by the Father ( John 6:44). For us, we don't consider this as Works, only when we try to add to or replace the Grace of God. Jews weren't adding to their future salvation; they only did what was required of them; and God knowing their hearts would apply the True Sacrifice. See Romans 4:1-5: righteousness that was imputed to Abraham. Why? Because he believed God, having hope, trusting His Word, without calling upon his works. Likewise, to all OT Israel who placed their trust & hope in God were marked for salvation, without works - unlike those who disobeyed or trusted in their works.

Please pray for healing for my family both physically and spiritually. For salvation of family members.

Ephesians 2:8-13

For by grace are ye saved through faith; and that not of yourselves: it is the gift of God:

9) NOT OF WORKS, lest any man should boast.

10)For we are his workmanship, CREATED IN CHRIST JESUS "UNTO GOOD WORKS", which God hath before ordained that we should walk in them.

11)Wherefore remember, that ye being in time past Gentiles in the flesh, who are called Uncircumcision by that which is called the Circumcision in the flesh made by hands;

12) That at that time ye were without Christ, being aliens from the commonwealth of Israel, and strangers from the covenants of promise, having no hope, and without God in the world:

13)But now in Christ Jesus ye who sometimes were far off ARE MADE NIGH BY THE BLOOD OF CHRIST.

THIS IS MARVELOUS SAYING! HERE'S WHERE YOU SEE THE CIRCUMCISION OF THE HEART AS MENTIONED IN ROMANS 2:26-29.

"Therefore if the uncircumcision keep the righteousness of the law, shall not his uncircumcision be counted for circumcision?

And shall not uncircumcision which is by nature, if it fulfil the law, judge thee, who by the letter and circumcision dost transgress the law?

For he is not a Jew, which is one outwardly; neither is that circumcision, which is outward in the flesh:

But he is a Jew, which is one inwardly; and circumcision is that of the heart, in the spirit, and not in the letter; whose praise is not of men, but of God. ( In these verses Jew is not mentioned to describe an ethnic group but rather to describe the performance and seal of the cutting away the flesh.)

WE GENTILES ARE BROUGHT NEAR BY THE BLOOD OF CHRIST, NOT CIRCUMCISION OF THE FLESH THAT RESPRESENTS THE JEW AND ALL OF THEIR WRITTEN ARTICLES WHEREBY THEY WERE COMMANDED. ( We're joined by the promise given to Abraham

Galatians 3:14-18.

Galatians 3:21 Is the law then against the promises of God? God forbid: FOR IF THERE HAD BEEN A LAW GIVEN WHICH COULD HAVE GIVEN LIFE, VERILY RIGHTEOUSNESS SHOULD HAVE BEEN BY THE LAW.

God bless.

Romans 7.

Part 2.

Romans 7:8-10. But sin, taking occasion by the commandment, wrought in me all manner of concupiscence. For without the law sin was dead.

For I was alive without the law once: but when the commandment came, sin revived, and I died.

And the commandment, which was ordained to life, I found to be unto death.

WE ALL AGREE THE LAW IS HOLY, SO WHAT IS IT ABOUT THE LAW THAT SLEW PAUL?

Romans 7:11-14

For sin, taking occasion by the commandment, deceived me, and by it slew me.

Wherefore the law is holy, and the commandment holy, and just, and good.

Was then that which is good made death unto me? God forbid. BUT SIN, THAT IT MIGHT APPEAR SIN, WORKING DEATH IN ME BY THAT WHICH IS GOOD; that sin by the commandment might become exceeding sinful.

For we know that the law is spiritual: but I am carnal, sold under sin.

PAUL IS SAYING THESE HOLY COMMANDMENTS EXPOSED HIM.

THAT HE MIGHT APPEAR SINFUL WORKING DEATH IN HIM BY THAT WHICH IS GOOD. ( The commandments.)

Also see 2 Corinthians 3:7-9

Vs 7:15-28.For that which I do I allow not: for what I would, that do I not; but what I hate, that do I.

If then I do that which I would not, I consent unto the law that it is good.

Now then it is no more I that do it, but sin that dwelleth in me.

For I know that in me (that is, in my flesh,) dwelleth no good thing: FOR TO WILL IS PRESENT WITH ME; BUT HOW TO PERFORM THAT WHICH IS GOOD I FIND NOT.

WHAT DID PAUL FIND THAT IS GOOD? (THE COMMANDMENTS)

COULD HE PERFORM THEM? ( NO HE SAYS.)

19-23.) For the good that I would I do not:

but the evil which I would not, that I do.

Now if I do that I would not, it is no more I that do it, but sin that dwelleth in me.

I find then a law, that, when I would do good, evil is present with me.

For I delight in the law of God after the inward man:

But I see another law in my members, warring against the law of my mind, and bringing me into captivity to the law of sin which is in my members

Conclusion;

Romans 7:24-25.

In addition,

Lets in your own words sum this up

1. your calling God a liar, unable to perform His Word

2. your placing God's word in contradiction to God's word

3. your adding & taking away from God's word Rev22:18,19

4. & your statement contradicts itself

In concern for you immortal souls, where do you & your amen brother stand before a Holy God, who is zealously jeolous over His Word?

I sincerely pray friend, that God would have mercy upon you, that you may find a place of repentance for yielding your members to the wicked one, for only by his influence could such heresy be brought forth.

In love & truth

Chris,

I still read in what you are describing as a significant difference in the Salvation of Old Testament believers from that of New Testament Believers in that Old Testament Believers somehow dredged up some kind of faith within themselves that God recognized, despite their DEADNESS as described in Romans 3 and other passages.

If this is not what you are suggesting, you have my apology for misunderstanding your words.

But I maintain that if we entertain a Salvation that is in any way based upon our works, we do not have the Salvation of the Bible. That was true in the Old Testament time and it is true today. And that is not a path I want to consider walking down, even in the slightest.

Remember the man in Numbers that picked up a few sticks. That should be in the forefront of our mind when we are thinking about the Nature of Salvation and the Gospel we follow and declare.

hi David,

I've read some of your writing, can not agree with most of it, I pray that you seek to continue to grow in meekness & humility, with a teachable spirit.

Psalm 25:9 James 4:8 2Thessalonians 2:10 a love for the Truth, has brought me out of being deceived & keeps me from being decevied. Jesus said John 7:17 as I actually put these previous 3 Scriptures into practices, in daily everyday ordinary life experiences, I have come the know the doctrine of it, its not like before "a highmindedness, an airy knowledge without the power, a profession without the possession", but an personal experiential knowledge of God's Spirit of Grace within my heart. He desires this for all, but because it comes in such a low & meekly appearance people reject it, they don't care to stoop so low & be a bond servant to all through Christ, 1John 2:6

The Lord blessing on you

In love & truth

Chapter Six Verse Twenty One is my favorite and a great source of comfort.

Yes Adam. The True Believer will have an ernest and ongoing desire to do the will of God, to do good works, to be obedient to God's Law, the Bible, both in doctrine and in practice. And we will have a love for God.

But that desire and that obedience and that love will come from a New Nature that God has given the True Believer when we become Born Again in our Soul by the action of God in saving us. By the Baptism of God the Holy Spirit. And none of that obedience will INITIATE nor CONTRIBUTE TO nor ENSURE our Salvation in any way. That desire and obedience and love will be the RESULT of our Salvation, and the EVIDENCE of our Salvation, because our Salvation is by God's GRACE ALONE, a gift from God in His Mercy. And not of our works in any sense.

Chapter six verse twenty one is my favorite.

Romans 7

Part 1.

Romans 7:1-6

Know ye not, brethren, (for I speak to them that know the law,) how that the law hath dominion over a man as long as he liveth?

For the woman which hath an husband is bound by the law to her husband so long as he liveth; but if the husband be dead, she is loosed from the law of her husband.

So then if, while her husband liveth, she be married to another man, she shall be called an adulteress: but if her husband be dead, she is free from that law; so that she is no adulteress, though she be married to another man.

Wherefore, my brethren, ye also are become dead to the law by the body of Christ; that ye should be married to another, even to him who is raised from the dead, that we should bring forth fruit unto God.

For when we were in the flesh, the motions of sins, which were by the law, did work in our members to bring forth fruit unto death.

WE HAVE BEEN FREED FROM THE CURSE OF THE LAW WORKED IN OUR MEMBERS TO BRING FRUIT UNTO DEATH.

BEFORE WHILE UNDER THE LAW AND DOING THE LAW MAY HAVE BEEN GRIEVOUS TO US IN THE FLESH.

NOW we do what we do with a new heart and by the Spirit of God that wars against the flesh.

7:6But now we are delivered from the law, that being dead wherein we were held; that we should serve in newness of spirit, and not in the oldness of the letter.

This is a heart change taken place.

Before we didn't have a heart that wanted to please God, and we were without strength.

Now we have a heart that desires perfection but a sinful flesh that is warring against the new heart.

Yes, I believe that too Ashley. We will be given new bodies. On this matter, I find that 1 Corinthians chapter 15 is very helpful. To help you, please take particular note of these verses: vv12-14 (since Christ rose from the grave, so will we); vv42,53 (we died in corrupt bodies, we will be raised in bodies not given to corruption); v49 (our present image/being conforms to life on Earth, but in the resurrection, our being will conform to life without sin, decay or death).

So yes, those who die in the Lord will receive new bodies (bodies transformed from our original bodies on Earth, or from what was left of it) & will be even like our Lord Jesus exists (i.e. Jesus Who died as a Man, resurrected in His Body & translated into Heaven to be at His Father's right Hand). 1 John 3:2 gives us a little glimpse of this: "Beloved, now are we the sons of God, and it doth not yet appear what we shall be: but we know that, when he shall appear, we shall be like him; for we shall see him as he is." Here, the Apostle John writes to God's children; that the change that will occur to us & in us will be so dramatic, that we cannot imagine it. But one thing we know, that when He comes for us in the resurrection & rapture, we will be changed & we will become as He is: pure from all the limitations & corruption of this earthly body, given a resurrection body as Jesus has, & fully outfitted for eternal life in holiness & with our Lord. How this transformation translates into a Heavenly life or life on Earth with Jesus in rulership, has been debated. The Lord knows - we must nevertheless be ready & looking for His Coming.

Frankie,

Pt. 2.

Our risen bodies will be the same bodies we had before we died, but will by without the sinful nature and also glorified by the Father to be able to inhabit heaven with Jesus. When we are in heaven, we will physically see Jesus face to face with our physical eyes. But our body will be without corruption, immortal, and far more glorious than it was made to be in this life. We cannot really understand just how that will be like, as Paul said, but we will be like Jesus.

Hello Frankie,

It seems that you have confused some doctrinal points in your explanations.

It is the Holy Spirit who lives in us, the third person of the Godhead. He is also everywhere present at once. Jesus is in heaven sitting at the right hand of the Father. He is not just Spirit as He remains both God and Man forever. He has a physical body, even as the Resurrected One, that He showed to the apostles when He appeared to them. He ascended to heaven in a physical body and at His ascension the angels said that He will return to earth in the same way, bodily with the same resurrection body He showed to the apostles. It is a physical body that can be touched, can eat, drink.

The Godhead planned this from before creation, that the Son would take on Himself forever a full human nature, body, soul, and spirit that does not take the place of His divine nature. Both natures exist together in the one person of Jesus Christ, and this is a permanent union of God and Man, for He is forever our High Priest, which is a human who intercedes for other humans.

this plan is remarkable and an unfathomable mystery in how the Son of God who is God can also take on humanity and be both God and Man forever.

The Scriptures say that Jesus is with us by the indwelling Holy Spirit, because, although there are three distinct persons in the Godhead, they are One Being. So if one has the Spirit within, then also the Father and the Son is within us because the Being of God cannot be divided.

Also, the Scriptures are clear that the second coming of our Lord is a physical bodily coming that will be visible to every eye.

Also, our resurrection will be like Jesus'. He was raised in the same body that died on the cross, but was glorified in His human body by the Father. He did not get a new body, but the one He had before He died was made alive and also transformed to be glorified forever. Our bodies will be raised like Jesus' body was raised, miraculously being given life and wholeness.