All Discussion PAGE 384

Page 2. Bro. Dan.

Or the other verse, "He that committeth sin is of the devil": if anyone professing to be a Christian commits even one sin, he doesn't actually belong to God (i.e. his salvation is spurious), but belongs to Satan. So Bro. Dan, if I take these verses as you say should be read, then I don't see this as a "wake up call to all Christians that we can't keep sinning", rather a clear affirmation that if we do commit even one sin, we would be hypocrites by calling ourselves 'Christian', when in fact we are actually children of the Devil.

So here is no wake up call, but a condemnation until this 'hypocrite' gets real with God & stops committing sins, even one sin. Is this how you read it brother? Because I'm having a difficult time understanding these verses as you shared, wondering when does a person actually become a 'true' Christian? Maybe this belief lends support to those who believe that salvation is only given at the Last Day of Judgement & so it seems unlikely that most of us will make it through. I hope that I haven't misunderstood you about those verses - if I have I apologize & seek clarification. Blessings.

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Bro. Dan. Am I "grasping for ways to explain away the TRUE MEANING of this very simple verse!?" Maybe it is not your desire to want to know more about what the original languages affirm rather to just accept the Word as presented in English. I confess that I don't often refer to the original languages, but I do when I detect that there could be a misunderstanding to what I'm reading and what other Scriptures may be saying, or even what I'm seeing in my own life or around me. Of course, not being conversant in Greek, & only having tools with me to help me in this regard, I admit that I could be wrong in my understanding of the explanation in Greek - another who is proficient in the language would need to assist us further.

Leaving that matter aside, the verses you shared state, "Whosoever abideth in him sinneth not". Let's accept that verse as given & read. So if we commit even one sin, here is sufficient proof that we are not abiding in Christ. And of course, it must be also true that Jesus is not abiding in us, for how can One so Holy have communion & reside in one that lacks holiness, having sin. Onto Page 2.

Hi Giannis,

Thanks, brother, I hope you did not take Greek Philosophy personally. I understand the Hebrew word nephesh, it can be any being, dog, cat, or cow. It can also mean a soul, a living being, a dead being, life, self, person, desire, passion, appetite, and emotion, basically who we are. When I said the spirit of life, I did not mean it had anything to do with the Spirit of God, sorry for the misunderstanding. I meant spirit/breath as the word neshamah used in Job 27:3.

I understand our being or soul is the same thing it is who we are and who will someday be with Jesus and see God's face. But that day is the day of redemption, Ephesians 4:30. In Scripture in death there is no remembrance of us, Psalm 6:5. In death we lie down until, Job 14:12-14 the grave is our house and our bed Job 17:13-16.

We will see death and the grave and our soul will be there Psalm 89:48 and this Ecclesiastes 9:5-10. I know our understanding may be different, but I do not see in Scripture where we or any part of us is immortal until resurrection day 1 Cor. 15:52-53 we will be raised from the grave, us, our soul/being, who we are.

The definition of death is the separation of the soul from the body I do not see in Scripture. It does say there is no knowledge, nor wisdom, in the grave, death, Ecclesiastes 9:10. I do not see that has changed. I know many understand as you and I hope you take this as just a little of where my understanding comes from, for it does not affect salvation.

The way I see it, we are waiting for the coming of our Lord Jesus Christ with His reward of eternal life, either we will be alive or asleep in the grave.

God bless,

RLW

Hi Bob,

Yes, the scriptures are crystal clear on this.

The scriptures make it very clear that every Christian has to be baptized, Matthew 28:19

"Go ye therefore, and teach all nations, baptizing them in the name of the Father, and of the Son, and of the Holy Ghost:"

This is also how we receive God's Holy Spirit, Acts 2:38 says, "Repent and be baptized, every one of you, in the name of Jesus Christ for the forgiveness of your sins. And you will receive the gift of the Holy Spirit."

GBU

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Isa 53 The appearances of the Just One.

Isa 59:16,17 Isa 63:5 fulfilled John 1:14 John 3:17

53 explains Christ patience's, trials, tribulations & suffering of His life in the great work of man redemption. In His humiliations, being despises, rejected, His not be esteem for who He really was John 1:11 & the world by Whom they were created. The sorrows & griefs He bare on our behalf, His Spirit being wounded for our transgression, & bruised for our iniquities, having the chastisement of our peace laid upon Him.

God, Ephesians 2:4 has left nothing undone in accomplishing this for us, a complete deliverance from sin; spirit, soul & body of the sons & daughters of men from Satan kingdom. Throughout His life & His passion ( the final day of His life) is describe fully here & we see it displayed throughout His life in His humanity, Hebrews 2:17,18

Isa 53:10 shows the delight of the Father's heart, as Christ fulfills every requirement of the Law, satisfying the Court in heaven Daniel 7:9-10 Daniel 7:13,14 being given a Kingdom, with Matt 28:18 literally untying the Father's hands so He could reach out to His beloved creatures in the Grace that He has now provided for us through His Son, 2 Cor 5:18-21

Isa 53:11,12 Grace appearance provides the knowledge that shall justify many, Rom 3:24 Titus 2:11,12 Luke 4:22

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Now He sits at the Right Hand of Power until Psalms 110:1-4 far above all Ephesians 1:20-22. As He works out the redemption that He purchase by His Blood/Life to everyone that would believe in His appearance in Spirit within the conscience, 2 Cor 4:6 He promise the disciples that He would not leave them comfortless, I will come back to you, that your joy maybe full. He pointed to this in the coming of Holy Spirit. John 16:7 the still small Voice in our heart that accuses us when we're wrong, & commends us when we obey Him, Rom 2:15 This is the Treasure we 2 Cor 4:7 that excellency of the power to understand & receive the things of God, is not of ourselves, but of God, for they are only spiritually discerned, 1 Cor 2:11-13

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Isa 53, Now as then, Christ walks the same path as He did then, but in Spirit, He is despised, rejected of men, we esteem Him not, He's experiences the sorrow & grief in mankind unbelief of Him by His appearances in Spirit within our hearts. He has no form of comeliness that we such desire Him, meaning; the Word spoke in our hearts is Christ in Spirit, that Word is God, John 1:1; His first works within us John 16:8 Titus 2:11,12 When we reject His reproof of correction, through unbelief, His words has finds no place in our hearts, we hidden our faces from Him, & run to other things to drown out His Voice, the tender motions of Holy Spirit in His proffering of salvation.

It is indeed Christ within conscience, the mystery Col 1:26-28 Jesus said to the Jews, John 5:39 as then now, God is a Spirit, we must come to Him in & by His Spirit John 14:6 When Jesus said; Matt 11:25 He wasn't stating the Scriptures, Pastors, bible studies etc; but to Him personally. The Scriptures are profitable as we honor them in their right place, the words of God, but not God the Word, who was in the beginning with God, before the Scriptures were. The true glory & honor of the Scriptures is they give us a true testimony of Him, & that they point us to His 2nd coming in Spirit. Hebrews 9:28 John 16:13 OT promise Isa 54:13 it is only by receiving Him in His Spirit appearance within our hearts/conscience that we receive Him, that He may work out His great salvation for us. There is no other way! John 14:6 For in the working of the operations of faith, Rom 10:17 which is in Rom 10:8 we come into relationship & fellowship with Him who suffered so on our behalf. We experience 1John 1:1-3 in the work of redemption. Trust & love is increased as we grow in Grace.

John 17:3

In love & truth

I fully agree David0921. And I take note that you have always held your position that 'Christ does 100% of the Work in salvation and that Salvation is by Grace alone - without any work or contribution to it on our part'. And I've truly appreciated your strong affirmation of this as it certainly rings very true in what I also read & believe.

In my statement: "is it of Works (& then God judges them on their love & faith in Him & then applying Jesus' Blood also to them), or is it only of Faith (where our sin was judged at the Cross) & our works will follow?", I was referring to the OT saints in their standing before God with their love, devotion & faith to keep & deliver them. I don't believe that their expression of 'faith' was a gift of God (though certainly a mark that becomes those who are the Elect of God), as is the Faith that has been given us post-Cross ( Ephesians 2:8,9: God's Grace plus His Gift of Faith to us leads us to receive His Salvation): I think a slight difference to what you believe ("that our Faith and our Belief are the Result of our salvation).

Their devotion & diligence to God's Commandments were sufficient to also make them heirs of salvation, looking forward to Christ's Sacrifice that would avail to them as well. Theirs was Works-based but believing in the God Whom they served to not fail them, with the Cross ahead of them. Ours is Grace-based, having done nothing worthy (or could ever do) to deserve His Favor, & no Law that we could call upon that would assist us; for the Cross is behind us, the Work fully completed & no effort on our part could ever contribute to that glorious salvation or make it more secure. So thank you for your comment - I believe we have much agreement here.

Yes, I do agree Charlie. Yet, I find that in any discussion on the Bible & spiritual matters, where the discussion seems to lead nowhere for various reasons, we must admit that even what we have been given in the Bible can sometimes be very limiting, even after doing a detailed examination of various applicable Scriptures. If this were not true, then we should all find full agreement on every matter that is brought up for discussion.

And the fact that we approach the Word with various perceptions of it, whether from pre-conceived beliefs & thoughts, coming to grips with texts that might be read or interpreted differently, or even having a picture of a biblical scenario set in our minds that must only be the correct one, then we are bound to get into robust (sometimes fruitless) discussion, tenaciously hanging on to what we believe is true. Yes, our faith & understanding might be challenged & we should be spiritually & mentally pliable enough to give it due consideration, but I think it's also true, that those of us who have spent much time engrossed in the Word are not very likely to be changed by another's presentation, unless the Spirit intervenes to bring that spark of Divine Light that shakes us out of our set minds. But then, when that new spiritual insight is given, which doesn't necessarily receive the conclusive support from the Word, should we expect anyone else to accept it? Maybe, some things need to be kept close to our chest, rather our hearts & leave the matter with God to do & complete His exacting faultless Work in each one of us.

Hi Jema,

Thank you, it is a hard subject to discuss because the different understandings of the soul, spirit, and resurrection are so different.

God bless,

RLW

Hello Shell,

In the time of Jesus and the apostles, the Old Testament, the Septuagint, was the Scriptures they learned and used.

As the writings of the Apostles and their scribes were completed and distributed to churches, these were used for doctrine, teaching, and conduct.

By the end of the first century, the writings that are now included in the New Testament were well established as accepted Scripture by the majority of churches. When the canon was determined in the 3rd century, these writings were to be included in the new Testament books because of their widespread distribution and acceptance by the wide range of churches in the areas where the Gospel was preached and church fellowships established.

So, after the canon was established by the bishops of the church in the 3rd century, no more writings were added to this canon.

Both the Old and New Testaments were hand-copied by scribes, priests, and other clergy from century to century until the printing press was invented by Guttenberg. Then Bibles could be mass produced and made available to non-clergy, too.

Translations were made in Latin by Jerome in the 6th century, I believe. And Luther translated Jerome's translation into common German, Calvin translated from Jerome to make the Geneva Bible. In England, there were many translators between 1500 and 1800, such as Tyndale , Wycliffe, Cloverdale, and then by the commission to translate by order of King James.

In America, there were several translations made the late 1800's such as the RSV, ASV,

And then in the 1900's there came more translations throughout the century.

Even now in the 2000's new translations are being produced.

But the canon of the Old and New Testament was determined once in the 3rd century and has not changed since then.

Thankyou so much Ronald , that was so well explained , I knew that and agree with everything you said but I could not have explained it as plainly and clearly as you just did :) .

Dear Bob , I can only give you my opinion based on what I have read in the Bible . If I was in your shoes I would want to read the Bible for myself , be sure that I understood the Gospel of the Kingdom and the things pertaining to the Holy One of Israel and His only begotten Son Jesus Christ and the be baptized by full immersion by someone qualified to perform the baptism . Read the Bible for yourself Bob , especially those verses but all of it is enlightening and wonderful . Be convinced in your own heart and mind before making the commitment and may God guide you into His Truth .

Hello Ronald

I have visited some Hebrew sites to see how Hebrews understand the verse in Genesis 2:7, ""And the LORD God formed man of the dust of the ground, and breathed into his nostrils the breath of life; and man became a living soul."

1. Living soul. It is always interpreted as "living being". In Bible (in both Hebrew and Greek) the word soul apart from meaning actually a soul it oftens means "person", "life", "being". In Gen 2:7 it means "being"

2. The breath of life does not mean the Spirit of God. It just shows an action from God that made man alive and that life is shown by breathing.

3. The phrase "breathed into his nostrlis" is always written as "blowing into his nostrils'. In the Septuagint it is almost the same, " And God blowed to his face the blow of life, and man became a living soul (which again is interpreted as "being").

So the whole verse in Gen 2:7 has nothing to do with Spirits and souls. It just talks about the material side of man, soil from the earth that God gave it life.

GBU

thank you.

thank you.

thank you, i will study those verses you pointed out. again, i was baptized as a child, does this count for nothing?

Hi Ashleyreagen44,

I agree with Adam, as we see in Genesis 2:7 that when God breathed into the nostrils of Adam the breath of life he became a living soul. When this spirit of life that is given by God leaves us, we are no longer a living soul. Ecclesiastes 12:7 the spirit goes back to God who gave it, that is for all people, saved or not saved.

We cannot live without the spirit, our breath as James 2:26 said without it our body is dead. When we stop breathing and that spirit goes back to God, we are no longer a living soul, as Jesus said on the cross, I commend my spirit, His breath then He died. Jesus did not go to heaven He went to the tomb/grave the same as we will. Jesus did not ascend to heaven until after He was resurrected, John 20:17.

My understanding is the confusion comes from Greek Philosophy, the meaning of death, Hades, and the immortality of the soul that merged into the Church with Augustine with the teaching on human nature and the afterlife to Greek philosophies.

Daniel 12:2 is the same as John 5:28-29 that we see in Revelation 20:11-15, the sheep and the goats, we see the last enemy cast into the lake of fire death, and hell/grave. My understanding of Scripture we are mortal, and our breath/spirit goes back to God and our soul no longer lives but is asleep in the grave until we are resurrected from the grave. This body is not what is resurrected it is our soul into our new body, and that is when we will be absent from this body, 1 Cor. 15:42-58.

Can I tell someone who thinks their loved one is in heaven their wrong? No, that would be hurtful. If they ask for my understanding, this is what Scripture says to me.

God bless,

RLW

Asking for strong protection and breakthrough for us and all in need. Lord Jesus please fight our battles ( Ex. 14:14).

That's not the only place the Bible says people will sleep to await Jesus's return. Here are more...

Job 14:12, 1 Thessalonians 4:13-18, 1 Corinthians 15:18-20, Matthew 9:24.

I have been reading recently and again through the books of Genesis, exodus, Leviticus & Numbers. Whenever I do it consistently reminds me of the verses in the New Testament that refer to the Old Testament. Particularly, 2 Timothy 3:15, 16 and 17, Romans 15:4 and Matthew 5:17-20. As all the New Testament was not even evident till long after the Resurrection. When it was canonized into the Holy Bible (king James), we must see the Holiness of the Old Testament, God's voice given to you & me. That is truly what we need to see, the Old joining with the New. That is what completes the Holy Bible and that is what works to complete the human mind. Make it Holy! Set apart.

Thank you! I thought that our bodies never went to heaven because we are given a new body.

Chris,

I presented you with the verse below and you state: "There is no suggestion in this verse that the one in Christ no longer sins."

You seem to be grasping for ways to explain away the TRUE MEANING of this very simple verse!

1 John 3:6

"Whosoever abideth in him sinneth not: whosoever sinneth hath not seen him, neither known him."

It is very clear: "Whosoever abideth in him sinneth not"

I'm a simple minded man, and this verse is very clear to me, that God is telling us if we are abiding in Him/God - we will not be committing sin!

God tells us it is impossible to abide in Him - and sin at the same time. If we are sinning we are Not abiding in HIM - we are abiding in Satan.

Also, continuing

1 John 3:7-9

Little children, let no man deceive you: he that doeth righteousness is righteous, even as he is righteous. He that committeth sin is of the devil; for the devil sinneth from the beginning. For this purpose the Son of God was manifested, that he might destroy the works of the devil. Whosoever is born of God doth not commit sin; for his seed remaineth in him: and he cannot sin, because he is born of God.

"he cannot sin, because he is born of God"

Again Chris, these verses are a "wake up call" to all Christains, including myself, that we can't keep sinning - and serve God at the same time. It's one or the other.

GBU

No, it isn't. When someone shares God's truth it honors God. Like these verses:

Mark 16:16

Acts 2:38

Matthew 28:19

John 3:5

Ephesians 4:5

It already says what it says and means what it means, whether someone likes it or not. You can't pick and choose which scriptures you like or dislike like a buffet-style Christianity. I don't think Jesus would approve of that. Water baptism sure was important to Jesus, so much so He was baptized Himself as an example. Wow, God was water baptized so there's no doubt whatsoever what someone needs to do to follow Jesus. Seems like a pretty big crystal clear sign, but people will still find excuses and rationalizations to disobey as they always do.

In Genesis God created man in His image, created male and female, and told them to increase in number, yet later He created Adam, then Eve from Adams rib, I had always thought that Adam and Eve, we all came from them, however when Cain was driven away for killing his brother, he went and took a wife. Its as though i had missed something here. There had to be other people who were not in the garden of Eden. I would like your thoughts on this matter. What do you understand from these accounts in Genesis?

Adam when ya preach water baptism for the remission of sins saves us you are in essence saying the Cross was insufficient.....Thats y the lord was so upset with Peter commanding water baptism.....Telling Peter 3 times what i have made clean ( by the blood of my son ) do not call common or unclean..... Acts 10:15....

All the unclean animals in that great sheet was ( humanity ) the Church that was made clean by the blood of the lamb of God.....Not water baptism that Peter was commanding.....In Acts 11:15.....Once Peter understood the vision he said then i remembered the words of our Lord.....John baptised you with water but i will baptise you with the H.G. and fire......Peter neva commands water baptism again for the remission of sins after Acts 11.....Even in the O.T. without the shedding of BLOOD THERE WAS NO REMISSION OF SINS......When ya tell folks they need water baptism FOR THE REMISSION OF SINS you are in essence saying the CROSS that New COVENANT IN HIS BLOOD was insufficent.....Thats y the Lord was so upset with Peter commanding water baptism for the remission of sins....When Jesus said its finished there is absolutely Nothing else can be added....No kind of a work....k gbu

Big difference David between the Old covenant and the New covenant....Jesus said many prophets and righteous Men has desired to see the things you see and HEAR the things you hear but heard them Not.....Hear ye therefore the parable of the Sower and his seed.....Thats y Jesus said he that is least in the Kingdom is greater then John....John was the O.C.....But the H.G. was not yet given in the O.T......And cd not be given till Jesus was GLORIFIED.....When the sower will go forth to sow his seed in humanity Jesus is gona be glorified Which is multiplication of his seed.....As the script. says the glory of the father are his Children.....Which are spirits as that which is born of the spirit is spirit.....The H.G. is the multiplication of Christ Jesus....Thats y they refer to the H.G. as the Promise.....Under the O.C. it was Isaac that was the Child of Promise....Impling natural Israel.....But under this N.C. its the H.G. that is the Child of Promise...Thats y he is saying that which is born of the spirit is spirit...Imping an Israel of God that is gonna be born in us via his good seed the living word that N.C...There is no Salvation or Kingdom until the woman births the manchild which is the H.G. that Child of PROMISE..... Rev 12:10

........What the scriptures are trying to tell us is....there is no Salvation from sin till we birth the H.G. That CHILD OF Promise.....A lil Child is gonna lead them....Thats y Jesus is telling us Unless you receive the Kingdom of God as a lil Child ( the H.G.) You will in no wise enter there in.....As that which is BORN of the spirit is spirit.....Which answers to our new heart and new SPIRIT.....That New CREATURE....The woman in Rev.12 keeps the commandments simply b/c she has birth the Child of Promise the H.G....Which is the testimony of Jesus.....that Spirit of truth that is gona rule all nations.....And reprove this world of sin and righteousness and Judegment....Thats y we must be bornagain of an incorruptible seed...not in O.T..

Chris,

You might note in all of my comments where I speak about the Nature of Salvation, I always stress that Christ does 100% of the Work in saving those whom He saves and that Salvation is by Grace Alone. There is a reason for this.

We must start with the very clear statement of Romans 3:10-18 that ALL of mankind is Spiritually DEAD and will never exercise "faith in God"or "believe on Christ" in a way that is pleasing to God, despite the fact that we are COMMANDED to do so.

Our Faith and Our Belief (one is the verb the other is the noun) are Works that we do ( 1 Thessalonians 1:3). And the Bible is crystal clear that our works can never save us. So we are not saved by God's Grace and Our Faith. We are saved by God's Grace Alone. Our Faith and Our Belief are the RESULT of our Salvation. They are not a CAUSE nor a BASIS for our Salvation.

Unfortunately, if you go into virtually any church today you will be presented with some form of a Works-Grace gospel. And this is one reason why I believe that 1 Pet 4:17 and other related passages are in play today. And this is very sad to say.

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Friend,

Let go over some of what you have written here.

1.You say, "the law is holy, but it couldn't make you holy".

Luke 1:5,6; Leviticus 20:26; He's speaking in a present tense. King David, after he grievously sinned against the LORD, found a place humility, brokenness of heart & contriteness of spirit to Psalms 101:2; & what about all the writers of the OT, 2 Pet 1:21; they were holy! They walk in obedience to the measure of the Light that God was please to give them, under the gospel of their dispensation.

2. Rom 7:14-25 Here Paul is explaining his struggles with the sin nature. After his encounter with Christ, he finds the Covenant has now be change, finding himself without the righteousness of the law, in which Philippians 3:6. He seeks the righteousness that is by "faith". Rom 6 tell us, "Grace" appearance in his heart, how he exercise the Word of Righteousness, yielding his member to glory & the knowledge of God, that shine in his heart in the face of

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Jesus Christ. The Word of Faith, believing that it was indeed Christ fulfilling His Father command to shine within our heart/conscience. The still small Voice that reproof us of evil thoughts, words or deeds. This is the true Light, John 1:9; Grace is the law of Rom 8:2; he obey it from Rom 6:17,18; it make us free Rom 6:22; Holy writ says, Rom 6:14,15; the word used is shall, not should, it's a positive assertion, a confident & forceful statement of fact. Holy Spirit states it twice here, along with other strong assertions to the same end. Rom 6:1,2; Rom 6:6,7; Rom 6:11-13;

You say "we have been join to Christ" only when we have been perfected by the working of Grace, which is indeed being dead unto sin, as you stated "Paul is saying recognize that sin has no rule/dominion over you" meaning you don't have to sin no more. For Grace teaches us the Cross, the power of God unto salvation. The body is just a vessel animated by the spirit & soul, become John 3:5 & Rom 12:1 & the body will be animated & be led by Holy Spirit. Yet for all this, it is safe to say the body of flesh still bare the consequences of the fall, but in the next life we're to received new bodies, like unto His glorious body. Halleluiah!

3. 1 John 3:1-9, yes indeed, after the working of Grace in the 1 Pet 1:2; Titus 3:5 being born again by receiving 1Pet 1:23 unto the new Creature, created in Col 3:10;