All Discussion PAGE 39

Hi Gigi.

Thanks for those insightful pages.

I would like to share another verse that is sometimes missed when studying this portion of scripture.

Matthew 28:19. "Go ye therefore, and teach all nations, baptizing them in "THE NAME" of the Father, and of the Son, and of the Holy Ghost:

(The name) notice that this is singular, not plural! of the Father, Son, and Holy Spirit.

Jesus didn't say baptize in "The names" (plural) as in three different people. He said in "The Name" as if the father Son and Holyspirit is one God of the same.

This is an early indication of the Trinitarian Godhead and an overt proclamation of Jesus' deity.

God bless.

Hi Ronald.

Brother I certainly misread your text!

I thought you were saying there is no 3 and a half year tribulation period. I re-read the text and couldn't do nothing but laugh at myself.

I think I combined your text with another and didn't read through neither.

Sorry for that!

More on the wide gate and "broad way" mentioned in Matthew 7:13-14.

I don't think you will find least resistance in the wide gate because because it is a "broad way"!

This group doesn't necessarily agree with one another! The only thing they have in common is they reject Christ and some don't even know it.

One's narrow view can be found in the wide gate.

I believe that is what makes the wide gate a broad way. People are willing to take any other way but the Lord's way.

That's why those on Christ narrow path is persecuted by the world and half of them goes under the banner of Christianity so I would be careful not to be prejudice against a view point because it is taught by what is believed to be the majority or minority view.

We study scripture to learn and grow. Not to differentiate or to disprove aview point.

It can become an obsession and lead you down the wrong path.

God bless.

Last post the Deity of Jesus:

I forgot to identify the topic as to who God is.

God is the "SON"

Anyone who wants to give biblical evidence that disproves the deity of Jesus is welcome to post their views as I did. Both views cannot be true, so we must find out which one is true and which one is heresy. It is such an important matter for believers to have correct doctrines about who God is according to Scripture so that we can worship God in Spirit and in Truth.

The Deity of Jesus

Then Peter says that Jesus is the Son of the Living God. Remember that the Jews of the first century understood that Son of God is a divine title, as I explained earlier. So for Peter to say that Jesus is the Son of the Living God, He is saying that Jesus is God.

In Matthew 16:16-17 Jesus again asked a very profound question. "Who do you say that I am." Again, Peter the same statement. "Thou are the Christ, the Son of the Living God." Jesus receives this statement as true and declared that Peter didn't come up with this idea on his own but that the Father had revealed this truth to Peter (because God can only tell the truth).

In john 20:28, Thomas, upon seeing and touching the risen Jesus exclaims, "My Lord and my God." Jesus does not rebuke Thomas for saying He is God, nor does He say Thomas is mistaken and then correct Thomas. No, Jesus accepts Thomas' statement of worship.

In Is. 43;15, YHWH says, "I am the LORD, your Holy One, the creator of Israel, you King." In Jn. 1:49, after Jesus calls Natanael, Nathanael says, "Rabbi, thou art the Son of God; thou art the King of Israel." Jesus does not negate what Natanael states because this disciples is equating Jesus with YHWH of Is. 43:15.

Also, even demons knew that Jesus was God, calling Him the "Holy One of God" in Mk. 1:24; Lk. 4:34.

Next, I want to go to Hebrew1:6 where the inspiration of God had the author say that the angels worship Jesus, In Rev. there is worship of Jesus, the Lamb, along with the Father, who sits on the throne. How could this worship be allowed in heaven if Jesus was not God?

For now I will stop. There are many, many more verses that speak to Jesus; divinity. One can look on this site under the question "Is Jesus God?"

For me, I am convinced that Jesus is God and worthy of worship as God. And it is not idolatry to worship the Father and Jesus, the Son, for there are not two Gods (or three), but one God who exists as several divine persons who are one in nature.

The De3ity of Jesus

Part 5

The apostles knew that they were to believe and worship only YHWH. So, why would Jesus tell them to believe in the Father as God and also believe in Himself as God? In verse 7 He tells Thomas that if they know Him they would also know the Father and have seen the Father in knowing Himself. Right away, Philip asks Jesus to show them the Father. Jesus says, "He that has seen me has seen the Father." and in vs. 8 He says "I am in the Father and the Father is in Me." Her Jesus is telling the truth that He is in a oneness relationship with the Father. He speaks that the Father is one person and he is another, but together they are truly one.

In vs. 23 He says that those who love Him, the Father and Himself will come and together with the Father (and the Spirit -vs.17) God will live within the believer. In Chapter 15:23 Jesus says that He who hates Him also hates the Father, once more speaking to their divine oneness.

John 17 is Jesus' high priestly prayer (which I so love to read again and again) After saying in vs. 2 that the Father has given Jesus power over all flesh (divine sovereignty) and that Jesus give eternal life to all the Father gives Him, in vs. 5 Jesus speaks of the Father glorifying Him again just as He was glorified within the Father eternally from before he came into the world. This is clearly a statement of His Deity because in Is. 42:8, 48:11God said He will not give His glory to another.

Next, I wish to cite passages that tells us what the disciples believed about Jesus. Jesus asked a very pointed question to His disciples in John chapter 6 after telling the crowds that He was the Bread of Life and many followers deserted him. He asked "Who do you say that I am (again using the name YHWH). in vs. 62 He says "What and if you see the Son of man (Himself) ascend up where He was before? (Speaking about His eternal existence with the Father). In vs. 69 Peter boldly proclaims that Jesus is the Christ (Messiah) see part 6

The Deity of Jesus

Part 4.

Since the essential nature of the Godhead is changeless, the Father would eternally be the Father of the Son, and the Son would eternally be the Son of the Father. Since John, under inspiration says that the Son is God, then it would be a conflict to say that the Son had a beginning of His begetting because that would indicate a change in the internal nature of the Godhead.

Next, I want to cite a few instances in John's Gospel where the Jewish leaders took up stones to kill Him or worse because in their first century thinking, they accused Jesus of making Himself God or equal to YHWH. These citations are John chapter 5:16-47; (for healing on the Sabbath and making Himself equal with God, vs. 18) 8:59 (where Jesus us the name YHWH to say that he existed before Abraham); 10:18 (Jesus says that He has the power to resurrect Himself) 10:20 (the Jews said that He had a devil and try to arrest Him) vs, 30 where Jesus states "I and the Father are one." and 31-39 where the Jews wanted to stone Him for blasphemy because He said He was the Son of God, thus making Himself to be God.

In all of these citations, Jesus knew already before He spoke how the Jews would understand His words, and He spoke them very deliberately, knowing they would accuse Him of saying He is God. He did not restate his words in ways such as, "No, no, I did not mean to say that I am God or equal to Him, you have misunderstood." No, He let his words stand affirming that their understanding of Him stating his deity was correct. If their understanding of His words were wrong, then He would have corrected their misunderstanding, but He didn't, and thus they wanted to stone him for blasphemy.

Next, I wish to go to the Last Supper Discourse in John. Right away, in john 14:1 Jesus tells His disciples to believe in God (His eternal Father) and also to believe in Him (the eternal divine Son). I say this because He never once retracted His claims to Deity. See part 5

Hey Oseas,

Sorry for the delay, I did not reply concerning the two beasts in Revelation 13 my reply was about the last week of Daniel 9:27 being put at the end times, my understanding is different. As far as the sea means waters and could be the Gentile nations you may be correct, we know it won't be Israel.

If we look at Revelation 11:7 and Revelation 17:8 this beast ascendeth out of the bottomless pit, so the word sea in Revelation 13 may mean the abyss, just a thought.

Thanks, and God bless,

RLW

The Deity of Jesus

Part. 3

Most of all, John would have known the doctrines being taught about Jesus and the writings of the other apostles. After being released from Patmos, John returned to Ephesus where he remained until his natural death. Polycarp, Ignatius and Papias were his pupils who were appointed as bishops either by John or Peter. Irenaeus was taught by Polycarp. John was active in ministry in Asia Minor prior to his imprisonment on Patmos. He planted churches in the region.

So, what was John inspired by God to say about J9esus' deity?

He begins his Gospel right away claiming Jesus was God ( John 1:1-3, that Jesus the divine Son of the Father, became enfleshed in human form. (vs. 1:14, Immanuel, God with us). John says that the Father (God) sent divine Son from Himself to be born into the world, fulfilling Is. 9:6-a child is born, a son is given). John says in vs. 1:4 that in Jesus was Life (just as the Father had Life within Himself ( Jn. 5:26, divine, eternal life that both the Father and Jesus can give to believers). Vs. 3 says that Jesus created ALL things ( Rev. 4:11 says the same) which is an act only God can do (see 1 Cor. 8:6). John goes on to say that in Jesus was the fullness of God bodily. (vs. 14. 16) Paul says the same thing in Col. 2:9.

In Jn. 1:18 some of the earliest Greek manuscripts wrote Theos instead of the Greek word of Son, but both speak of the Son/God being the only begotten. The Father is completely unbegotten, but the Son is begotten and it is the Son who reveals the Father to humanity. This gospel was written in Greek, and in Greek, 'only begotten' is written "monogenes", which, (from what I read) means a unique, one-of-a-kind offspring-as having the nature of its father. So, it seems that 1;18 is saying that Jesus , as the only Son of God by nature is divine as the Father is. This verse does not seem to say that the Son had a beginning in the Godhead. see part 4

The Deity of Jesus

Pt. 3

In Rev. 1:8 Jesus a says that He is "the Almighty" which is equivalent to "Mighty God" and the name that YHWH named Himself to Abraham ( Gen. 17:1; Ex 6:3) This harkens back to Isaiah's prophecy 9:6 as well as to Abraham and Moses as identifying God. Jesus was saying in Rev. 1:8 that he is God Almighty, just as Isa 9:6 prophesied.

In Mic. 5:2 another Messianic prophecy concerning Jesus is:

"For thou, Beth-lehem-Ephratah, though thou be little among the thousands of Judah, yet out of thee shall he come forth unto me who is to be ruler in Israel, whose goings forth have been of old; from everlasting." This verse is saying that the Messian existed eternally. He is from everlasting, just as the Everlasting Father is.

Again, in Is., 48:12 YHWH speaks, "Hearken unto me, O Jacob and Israel, my called; I am he; I am the first, I also am." the last." Jesus attributes this title to Himself in his statement to John in Rev. 1:8; 22:13.

Just from these statements from the OT that are attributed to Jesus in the NT, it is clear that the Scriptures attest to the deity of Jesus, as He calls Himself God explicitly in Rev. 1:8.

The witness of both OT and NT teach that Jesus is God, so I believe that this is the truth concerning His nature.

But next I will go into the NT to see other examples that attest to the truth that Jesus is God with us, God made flesh.

John the author of the Gospel, 1,2 and 3 Jn. and Revelation, was alive in the 90's A.D. All the other apostles had been martyred and he had been imprisoned on the Isle of Patmos (in the northern Aegean Sea) by the emperor Domitian 88 A.D. - 96 A.D. He was most likely released from Patmos in the mid-90's by the succeeding Emperor Nerva who became Emperor in 96 A.D.

John , having been one of the 12 apostles during Jesus' earthly lifetime, had much knowledge about the formation, expansion, and establishment of the early church in the first century. He knew Jesus well and the other apostles. cont

The Deity of Jesus

Part 2.

The past weeks I have taken much time in Scripture to once again find out what it teaches on the deity of Jesus. It is very important to me to believe what the Scriptures do say as the basis for my belief in Jesus. Jesus asks us to believe in Him, and to me, this means believing the truth about Him from Scripture as well as trusting in Him for salvation. So, in the following posts I will accept what the Scriptures say about Jesus' nature. What does the Scriptures say concerning Jesus in this view?

First, I will bring forward some OT prophecies concerning Jesus:

Psalm 45:6

"Thy throne, O God, is forever and ever; the sceptre of thy kingdom is a right sceptre."

The writer of Hebrews applies this prophecy to Jesus in 1:8

"But unto the Son, he (God) saith: "Thy throne, O God, is forever and ever; a sceptre of righteousness is the sceptre ofthy kingdom."

Verses 9-13 goes on to speak of the Son as creating the foundations of the earth and of the heavens; that the Son will fold these up again, and bring about the changed to them; but the Son is changeless and eternal.

Isaiah 7:14 gives a prophecy concerning Jesus.

"Therefore the Lord himself shall give you a sign: Behold, a virgin shall conceive, and bear a son, and they shall call him Immanuel."

Matthew 1:22-23 cites this prophecy as being fulfilled in Jesus, who is Emmanuel (another spelling of Immanuel) which means "God with us."

isaiah 9:6 prophesies that:

"For unto us a child is born, unto us a son is given: and the government shall be upon his shoulder: and his name shall be called Wonderful, Counsellor, the Mighty God, The Everlasting Gather, the Prince of Peace"

Here, Isaiah the prophecy of vs. 9:14 is extended and still refers to Immanuel who Jesus is. In this verse Jesus is called Mighty God (an OT name for God) along with the Everlasting Father: (which shows Immanuel's oneness with the Father as Jesus said that "I and the Father are one" in John 10:30. cont. to pt. 3

Good morning,

I am coming back to my study of Who God is. last time I wrote about God being "SAVIOR". Before I continue I wanted to clarify something from the last post on this series. I showed how Jesus is our Savior and that in the OT it is stated that only God is our Savior. Thus, the Scriptures show that Jesus is God who was prophesied to save mankind from sin.

I also gave a quotation (which I did not remember to source) and this quote offended some here. I wish to explain my motivation further concerning this quotation.

First of all, I never would post something to purposely offend another person. My heart is not like that.

Secondly, I did not direct that quotation towards any particular person.

Thirdly, I posted that quotation because I believe that the topic of whether or not Jesus is God just as the Father is God or not is a very important matter for believers to resolve. And that it should be resolved with what Scriptures do say.

I think that coming to a Scriptural conclusion on this aspect of Jesus nature is vital to whether one believes in the Jesus of Scripture or "another Jesus".



Jesus exhorted people time and again to believe in Him to have eternal life. So, believing truly about Jesus is so very important to any believer.

The quotation I posted was intended to make this point:

And please note that it was prefaced with an "IF"

IF anyone believes that Jesus is God and Scripture says that He is not and continues to believe He is God and worships Him, then they are idolaters. AND IF anyone believes that Jesus is not God and Scripture say that He is God and refuse to believe that Scriptures reveal his deity and will not worship Him, they are also idolators.

ALSO, IF anyone who continues to hold on to a false belief concerning Jesus' deity or non-deity when Scriptures say that He is God or not God then they are either blaspheming the Father if Jesus is not God or blaspheming the Godhead if Jesus is God.

So this is a very vital matter.

Hey S Spencer,

Thanks, brother, I did not intend to combine salvation issue and eschatology. I was just referring to it being an innate human nature to follow a crowd and taking the path of least resistance. I did not mean to base any truth on the majority or minority. I agree we can apply Matthew 7:13 with salvation but we can also apply it to what is being taught as in verse 15 is a warning of false prophets. This includes false teaching that is attractive and the larger the crowd the easier it is to deceive people.

I agree we should put Scripture above all that is taught out there for in them is the only truth, but many people do not, they just go with what they hear from a preacher, TV, YouTube, etc. Some never open a Bible and study and pray, asking God for the truth and the larger the follower's impact what they believe is the truth.

We can be deceived if we do not try the spirits, 1 John 4:1 that only comes from prayer and study being guided by the Holy Spirit. Hope this makes sense, we have discussed this before and this is not to debate we both know each other's understanding and I am not asking you but honestly, I have not found or have been shown one verse that out-and-out says we go or are taken to heaven that some teach.

I must disagree, I am not Amillennialism, I do not spiritualize Scripture, I believe in a literal 1000-year reign of Jesus with His chosen and faithful at His second coming, Revelation 5:10 Revelation 20:4-6. Also, I do not believe the Church has replaced Israel. We are probably closer in our understanding of the end times than you think.

Hope you had a good vacation I guess you are on the road again.

God bless,

RLW

Dear GIGI

Amen. GOD bless you and all your family.

Hi Brother Ronald.

When Jesus said "broad is the way, that leadeth to destruction, and many there be which go in thereat" I believe that is a salvation issue, "Not eschatology"

You said yourself that we shouldn't tie the two together!

We should hold to and run with scripture, "Not majority or minority as you stated but if the majority or minority is correct on a matter there is nothing we can do against the truth whether it is a salvation issue, eschatology, or any other issue.

Concerning the wide gate. Most and confess we are saved by faith in the working of God by way of the cross but out of that group many will be deceived. "It's just a confession. Not faith.

In the context of that portion of scripture man puts his trust in the work in his own hands.

I agree with you when you say that your interpretation on eschatology is different from most,

However, I don't agree that the view that Richard, myself and others has shared on this topic is a majority view point.

Today the Amillenial view point "where one spiritualize much of the text is widely accepted and your views is closer to theirs than the narrow viewpoint the we premillennials hold to.

So brother you are in that wide gate that has been passed down since st Augustine.

I believe this viewpoint has a faulty hermeneutics.

I agree 100 percent with Richard on this but I wouldn't be willing to debate it again at this time.

However I believe you have been shown the proof of what you are asking multiple times by several people on this site.

God bless.

Most holy i thank you 1st for another day of your grace and favor and mercies.i come lifting up to you my family. an continue to make my home a center of christisn light an love cover my grandson in school.watchower my only granddaughter and if you will master bless my two sons with good jobs.you said in your word that if a man doesn't work he can't eat so please lord do that for me. bless all my friends and love ones an.my neighborhood.i bless you dear god and i lift you up because of who you are, in jesus name i humbly do pray amen

amen brother.

"Heart of God" Ez.28:1 (2 of 2)

Mind of man is not brain which facilitates assembling information it receives into a thought pattern. Mind like heart is a spiritual space. By breathing into the nostrils of Adam he made him a living soul. So truth in man's inward pars make heart and mind interchangeable. Heart supplies the force from the inclinations that mind of man assembles. Thus King of Tyrus understands his advantages, "By the multitude of thy merchandise they have filled the midst of thee with violence,"(28:16) This pre-eminent position of the seafaring nation did not come by playing by the rules but with violence, 'greed is good' the king would have rationalized. In order to maintain their lead meant playing a dirty cut-throat game. The pride and ruthlessness showed their DNA came from Lucifer, the covering cherub.

Satan or Lucifer was set up perfect in beauty. Whereas Jesus Christ the Son was perfect in the beauty of holiness. "Thus saith the LordGod; Thou sealest up the sum, full of wisdom, and perfect in beauty./Thou hast been in Eden the garden of God" (28:12-13)

God blessed man in his Son. So the river from Eden watering the garden shows Eden as a kingdom where the Son had his presence even as Satan has had. Eden is qualified as the garden of God. It is also described as the mountain of God. In Is.14 Satan would want to sit higher than the rest of the congregation to which we shall come in the next post. Eden and Zion have their own significance.

The point we need to understand the creature telling the creator, "I will want more honour than you are willing to give." It is the spirit of disobedience which marks the children of darkness or the children of wrath. Either you have the inheritance among the heirs in the kingdom of light or with Satan,"Jesus said unto them, If God were your Father, ye would love me: for I proceeded forth and came from God; neither came I of myself, but he sent me./Why do ye not understand my speech?...."

( John 8:42-45)

"Heart of God" Ez.28:1 (1 of 2)

"Son of man, say unto the prince of Tyrus, Thus saith the LordGod; Because thine heart is lifted up, and thou hast said, I am a God, I sit in the seat of God, in the midst of the seas; yet thou art a man, and not God, though thou set thine heart as the heart of God:"

What does the heart signify for a child of God?

God calls Prophet Ezekiel the son of man, a generic term to indicate the covenant of God with Man. St Paul explains it, "According as he hath chosen us in him before the foundation of the world" and another verse tells us in whom we have been chosen. "Having predestinated us unto the adoption of children by Jesus Christ to himself, according to the good pleasure of his will,"(Ep.1:4-5)

We are chosen in the Man component so each one of us is a son by adoption. Jesus Christ is the firstborn and we are His children in his Son. It is according to the good pleasure of his Will that is one idea we need understand well before we explain the nature of God.

By His breath he garnished the heavens so we shall interpret the verse, "Who (God) maketh his angels spirits"(104:4) in context of a quote from the Book of Job. "By his spirit he hath garnished the heavens; his hand hath formed the crooked serpent." ( Job 26:13).This crooked serpent refers to the red dragon and also Lucifer which in turns brings us to the King of Tyrus, a man. As Ezekiel is addressed by God King of Tyrus is the son of Perdition, We trace here children by adoption according to the good pleasure of the divine Will. On the other hand the king of Tyrus owe his parentage to Lucifer who resisted the will of his Father. "I will" is his credo while the Son said,"Lo I come to do they will." God is a Spirit. The Son chose to totally align his will to that of the Father. The heart of the Son, obedience, trust faith delineate the holiness of the Son. Ph.2:5-9 explains the mind of Christ or the heart as a spiritual space.

Hey Oseas, one issue with Dan 9:27 is that it's all about the Messiah. The seventy weeks are all about Jesus, no antichrist. Jesus did cause the oblation to cease 3 and a half years into his ministry " annoint the most holy", which was his baptism. There is no prophetic "covenant" with Israel for seven years made by the antichrist, this is an erroneous teaching.

Thank you and May the Lord bless you

Please pray for me and my family

Please keep my family and I in your prayers. That we will draw near to God and he will draw near to us. As the children go back to school, please pray for God watch over them.

Ronald Whittemore & Rainwalker

The message below is for your meditation, as a clue, to decipher an enigma / conundrum.

As you know, Revelation 13 describes two terrible different Beasts:

Beast of sea(verse 1),

Beast of the earth(verse 11)

Which of the two Beasts are you referring to?

According to the Revelation, sea means waters, waters mean peoples, and nations, and multitues of all tongues- Revelation 17:15-i.e. Gentile nations, so the Beast of sea is a Gentile Beast.

The Beast of earth has two horns like a lamb, and he spake as a DRAGON (a false lamb), by allegory, earth here is Israel, the clay( Isaiah 64:8) a dry land, like an isle in the sea, a portion of earth surrounded by waters (gentile peoples) on all sides.

According to the Daniel 9:27, he shall confirm the covenant with many for one week. Revelation 13:2 says the DRAGON shall give to the GENTILE Beast of sea his Power, and his Seat(his throne in Jerusalem), and great Authority. And in the midst of the week he shall cause the sacrifice and the oblation to cease, and for the overspreading of abominations( Daniel 12:11) he shall make it desolate until the consummation.

GOD BLESS

Hello Stephanie V. I am happy to continue to pray for you and your health. You have been posting your prayer needs here for a long while and I am glad you do. May the Lord bless you and heal you and restore to you your energy, strength, resistence to illness, and increase your body's health from day to day.

Thank You Lord Jesus for how You are helping Jackie.

Let there be a Testimony. By Your grace.

For Your glory. Alleluia. Amen.

Psalm 46:1, Psalm 18:1-3, Mat 4:4, Heb 13:8, Eph 1:7, Ex 14:14.

Heavenly father, take out all the laziness,fear, bad things and energy from everyone an me. I pray that everyone is having the best day of their life.I pray thateveryone follows your path and seek and look up to you. In Jesus name. Amen

Please pray for my husband's health. Pray for me that I keep getting close to the Lord.

Pray for me that I can tell people about Lord Jesus

Please pray and interceed for my wife Gloria. She is due in court this evening for a court summons concerning traffic and vehicle. She is very much in need of GOD'S GRACE and HIGH FAVOR in and upon her, as well as in the court room itself . We are believing in HIM who spoke these words of truth and power found in Luke 18:1-6 .Believe with us saints and people of our GREAT GOD and SAVIOUR, JESUS CHRIST !

Yes I believe in Christ almighty that he is the one and only one that can heal my body from this dirty little stroke that I had that affected my left side my leg, arm,fingers and toes all on my leftside I can't move none of those body parts on my leftside, went to therapy and that doesn't help that's why I believe that GOD is the only one who can heal this body of mines because he made this body and he knows what to do for it please pray for me.Thanking you in Jesus name.