All Discussion PAGE 394

Pt 1

Hello Bro Dan

I see you have removed your answer to me but I am still going to answer your points.

Moses' Law consists in general of 1. the Moral Law of which the 10 com/nts were a sort of summary 2. com/nts that had to do with the way the Hebrews should serve the Lord ie priests, sacrifices, the Temple, etc, 3. the State Law ie how Hebrews should govern their state, 4. Laws about feasts etc, 5. other Laws that regulate the relations of people within their community and many more.

Of course the Moral Law in general is still valid in the new form that Jesus has taught, see Matthew 5.

But what has to do with how Hebrews worshipped God has been cancelled. Why? Because all those things served as a shadow of things to come, ie the Temple of Solomon where God had His eyes on has become the Temple of our body where God (His Spirit indwells. Sacrifices of animals have been substituted by the sacrifice of the Lamb. There aren't now a specific people who are priests, all of us are now priests and kings and so on.

There are no feists and special holidays now like Pentecost, like Passover, etc also shadow of new things.

Christian Law is not any more a State Law, Jesus has separated the Moral Law from the State Law, ie offer to Ceasar what belongs to him and God what belongs to Him. Christianity should not be involved directly with politics by trying to enforce its views to others although we can influence them for better (this is a big issue that a lot can be said).

Many com/nts in the old Law about relations between people are now abandoned like divorces, like marrying more than one woman and other that were expressing societies of the 15-20th century BC.

See Pt 2

I mean 10 commandments, not 20. oops

Bro Dan,

Part 2

With that said, I do think that we are to not follow the regulations created by man as to what it means to keep the Sabbath. The Jewish leaders added many, many rules the people were to follow on top of the simple rule God laid out in the commandment to Moses and Israel. We are to rest from our regular work and toil. We are to take time to rest in Christ and commune with Him. We are to remember Him. We can do all of these things everyday to some degree. I am not one to insist that others keep the Sabbath in a uniform way. Each person should follow the Holy Spirit as to what is best for themselves and we are not to judge others on this matter. Isaih chapter 1 speaks of how God hated the Sabbaths and New Moon festivals, sacrifices, oblations, incense offerings made by the priests and celebrated by the Israelites. There hearts were far from the LORD and so their religious actions were called iniquity. We must be careful that we obey for all of the right reasons and none of the wrong ones that so characterized Israel when they came into the land and also the Jews of Jesus' day.

We must have a right spirit about our obedience to God. We are to offer up our lives to Him daily through loving Him and loving others. We are to desire to be transformed to be more and more like Jesus with each passing day, allowing the Holy Spirit to sanctify us and change us from glory to glory so that we will be a reflection of our LORD to others. Jesus said that He was the Lord of the Sabbath, and if we are in Him, we have the freedom that He had to pick grain on the Sabbath to satisfy hunger. ( Mark 2:23-28). It seems that Jesus was demonstrating that we are to be reasonable about what we do on the Sabbath, keeping it according to the Spirit and not according to the written letter.

Bro Dan,, I agree with you that the 10 commandments are universal laws of moral conduct that is fitting for one who believes in God and follows Him. I do not think of these as being Jewish laws either. I think they were given to Israel because this was the nation that God chose to be the ones to be witnesses of God to the nations. They failed so miserably except for the remnant of Israelites who actually believed God as Abraham did and then the remnant of Jews who, in Jesus' day, believed Him, and after the resurrection and ascension, those of the Jews that believed the Gospel proclaimed by the apostles/disciples and committed their lives to Jesus.

I believe that God would not give us laws that were unimportant or amoral. The 20 commandments tell us how we should live in community and before God in a very basic level. Jesus expects us to follow these moral parameters for our godly conduct.

We do not follow the commandments to earn our way to God's favor or salvation. We follow the commandments because they are truly good and helpful to us spiritually and temporally for ourselves and others we interact with. They help us know a glimpse of how holy and pure God is and also how exacting He is concerning man's moral responsibility. We can never meet this requirement and be perfect. Only God is perfect. So we must cast ourselves on the righteousness of Christ imputed to us to stand before the Father perfect.

What Christian would think that it is ok to murder or steal or worship idols? We know that these things are immoral and not fitting for believers to do. Same can be said of all the other commandments of the decalogue. The Sabbath rest indeed is for man, not man for the Sabbath. So God deemed it good for man to rest from his work and toil each week. We should see this as a good thing for us to practice for our own good. Also, having a regular Sabbath rest is a way for us to show that we honor God by willingly following His will and commands.

see part 2

I think we should "rightly divide the word of truth", this verse is speaking of the New Heavens (remember God is in the Third Heaven) and Earth, nothing about the previous Earth shall be remembered.

Jesse, Glad to hear from you.

Thanks for the encouraging words. I am not too ruffled by what these men have said of me. I have pointed them out as posting false beliefs that are at odds with Scripture, so the blow back is not a surprise. I am waiting for the time when either of them will give a reply or initiate a post that is clear in its message and true to Scripture that will be of benefit to those of us here. I pray for them most days and look forward to the Lord working in them as He is working in me. I wish them blessing.

Jesse, I understand that you are busy. I thought that was the case. It is good to know that you do come here and read to keep up on things on this forum. You are a solid believer and I do appreciate you.

My dear brother and sister in Christ,

Thank you both so much for thinking about me. It means a lot. I have been coming on here almost every day to read. I just haven't posted in a while.

GiGi,

Please don't be discouraged by the mischaracterization that's been directed at you. I, along with many others know that you are strong in the Lord and have a great understanding of spiritual things.

It seems odd that the one saying these things to you very rarely receives positive feedback on the things he shares. You would think that would be a clue!

God bless you both. I'm still here and I still try and come on here every day. I have been extremely busy lately but hopefully things will slow down soon and I'll have more time to fellowship with you all!

Thanks Gigi.

God bless you.

Hi Bro dan

It is true that Moses' Law asked Hebrews to observe the Sabbath.

But as Paul says in Galatians 3:24 the Law served as a schoolmaster (although "tutor and guardian for childs" is a more accurate translation of the grk "paidagogos") which leads people to Christ. That means that many things in the Old Law served as a shadow for things to come in the New Covenant, they served as a figure for the real things to come. So circumcision of the flesh is figurative for circumcision of the Heart (new birth), sacrifice of animals were a figure fot Jesus' sacrifice ... and so on.

Paul in Galatians 8-11 says "8. Howbeit then, when ye knew not God, ye did service unto them which by nature are no gods. 9.But now, after that ye have known God, or rather are known of God, how turn ye again to the weak and beggarly elements, whereunto ye desire again to be in bondage? 10.Ye observe days, and months, and times, and years. 11.I am afraid of you, lest I have bestowed upon you labour in vain."

And in Collossians 2:16-17 he says, "16. Let no man therefore judge you in meat, or in drink, or in respect of an holyday, or of the new moon, or of the sabbath days (FOR NOT HOLDING THEM): WHY NOT PAUL? BECAUSE 17.Which are a shadow of things to come; but the body is of Christ"

Remenber when the apostles gathered in Jerusalem to discuss about the gentiles following or not the Law. They came up with a conclusion. What was that conclusion? Acts 15:28-29, "28. For it seemed good to the Holy Ghost, and to us, to lay upon you no greater burden than these necessary things; 29. That ye abstain from meats offered to idols, and from blood, and from things strangled, and from fornication: from which if ye keep yourselves, ye shall do well. Fare ye well."

You see brother nothing to keep from the Old Law but only the above.

Besides Jesus said in some place that my Father works until now and so am I. God hasn't really gone to rest after the creation but works till now for the salvation of people.

GBU

Gi Gi I pray for you, In Jesus name.....Rev.12:5....Now you have put your self in rank with satan the dragon that wants to kill the woman and her Child....Which is the H.G.....My doctrine is solely the doctrine of the manchild.....The H.G. that Child of Promise.....And its this Child the spirit of truth that is gonna reprove this world of sin and righteousness and Judgment.....He has neva known you Gi Gi, if he had you wd be with Child of the H.G.....But you are saying this is all hogwash....Clearly you are without understanding of spiritual things....GBU

Narrow is the way, that leadeth unto life, and few there be that find it ( Matthew 7:14).

Richard,

Seek, and ye shall find ( Matthew 7:7)

Romans 9:6-7 seems to bolster what you are saying. Also Galatians 6:16 as to both believing parties being part of the true church. There are; admittedly certain verses that would seem to suggest that final prophetic fulfillment of O.T. prophecies fit into the church Age; particularly in the Book of Acts. Many of these promises only appear partially fulfilled; that would be demonstrated in those verses coming from Joel; or Psalm 1 which will not be completed until the Tribulation and Second Coming of Christ. Because of this; I sort of see a Covenant as well as Dispensational aspect to scripture. Most prophecy has multiple fulfillments with one final one in scripture; some don't like to attest to that reality to pinpoint their own eschatological or other doctrinal stance. I try to take these principles in my comments with many other facets of the Word; such as predestination and the fact that God works through man's "free will" to bring His plans about; clearly seen with Christ's crucifixion.

Rightly dividing the Word takes maturity and much practice and study. That affects our view of the "once saved always saved" concept vs the many warnings about falling away; for example.

As to Israel vs the church; a careful reading of scripture shows us that there are certain conditional and unconditional promises in either example. An eternal God of covenants has eternal things in His heart; thus the only thing that has passed away was the old covenant of the law which God Himself had; in His wisdom designed to eventually be replaced by Christ's atoning sacrifice instituting the New Covenant. The "great parenthesis" between the O.T. and Revelation (or between Daniel's 69th and 70th week) is partially hidden; therefore with certain aspects being revealed as related to the church in this "dispensation". There are already a few Gentiles who come to faith in the O.T.; just like signs today in Israel that show a shadow of what is to come in the future.

please remember me and my family in your prayers

Hello BakerCindyJ. I noted that you're new to these pages, so a hearty welcome to you. You've just posted a reply to someone, who may not see it because it is isolated from the person's question. After you log in to this Site, if you ensure that you hit the Reply button pertaining to the person you're addressing, then your reply will be attached to the original post. If you find that question again, you may want to re-post your response there.

Hi Frankie J. Getting to the fundamentals here: you quoted Luke 6:40 (the Greek is 'karkatizo', meaning 'made complete, prepared'). The context is not about being pure or perfectly free from sin "as his master", but the 'one who is fully trained or fully prepared for the work, can be the master/teacher'.

1 John 4:17: "Herein is our love made perfect" (Gk: teleioo = to be made complete); i.e. 'he who dwells in love dwells in God, and God in him' (v16): true love is made complete when we are truly abiding in God.

Romans 12:1: "present your bodies a living sacrifice, holy, acceptable unto God". (Gk: hagios (holy): set apart for God, sacred). That is how we come before God presenting ourselves: holy by position - holy by purification. The apostle's earnest plea is that we come with clean hands & pure hearts. Sinless? Can never be - our sin nature is still with us, but we can come with all sin confessed & clear pure consciences.

To the rest of your comment with supporting Scriptures, it appears again that you equate the new life in Christ as being freed from sin. It is true that we have been cleansed & our spirits have been made new & in that sense absolutely perfect. But we still live in bodies of flesh, sin & corruption. If the new birth dealt with that matter of perfecting our bodies (the flesh), I would fully agree with you, but the Bible never teaches that & experience always shows that the spiritual battle over sin can never end but rages every moment of the day, some succumb to it, others find victory. But in the end, confession & correction restores fellowship & cleansing of the heart & conscience - it never makes one sinless. If you find disagreement here, then maybe you can outline what you consider as sin - for this point may well be where our misunderstanding lies. GBU.

Thanks Bro. Dan. We've been here before. So "why do so many Christians make such a big deal about following God's Commands." Can't answer for others, but I see that all of God's Commands (whether the Decalogue, or the myriad of other Laws & regulations), applied only to the Jews - for their instruction & performance. None of that applied to me as a Gentile. And none of those laws given to Israel are expected to be recognized by Gentiles. If Jesus didn't come & give His Life to redeem us to God, then as a Gentile hearing of such Laws that God required obedience, might place on me some conviction & responsibility to keep them so as to appease/please the God of Israel.

So the Decalogue, for example, was given to a specific people for a specific purpose. If I relied only on it to give me finite rules for obedience, then I would fail God. If the command said, "Thou shalt not kill" & I obeyed it & never murdered, then I could say that I had fully kept that commandment. And that is how Israel would have understood it. But Jesus then came on the scene & taught His disciples what 'murder' meant ( Matthew 5:21-24). So here we now have that connection between the old Law that only condemned & brought death ( Romans 7:4-6) & now the Deliverer, through His Sacrifice, Who has "delivered us from the lawthat we should serve in newness of spirit, and not in the oldness of the letter".

If one believes that the Decalogue is still binding, that's their choice. But my belief is that those in Christ (of Jew & Gentile) are far beyond the Decalogue & are now indwelt & led by the Spirit ( Romans 8:1-4), that "the righteousness of the law might be fulfilled in us". My reference can never be to the Decalogue, only to the Holy Spirit who interprets the whole Law, pertaining to life & godly living, helping me to obey & giving power to live it - which the Old Law could never do. I ask, 'why should I go to a system that could never give life, or even syncretize it with the Law of the Spirit'?

Me too, David and GiGi

Hello David.

I wasn't responding to your post. But I wanted to write a short article about what is called "covenant theology". So far on this site we have read a lot about dispensationalism but nothing about the opposite belief. So I tried to make a summary of that theory so that people who haven't heard of it get to know it.

Dispensationalism declares different dispensations to different people at different times. On the other hand the covenant theology considers a continuity in God's plan to save people. As you said Israel is not national Israel (it was never meant to be, even in the OT it was the remnant) but new or spiritual Israel. The Israel of God always intended to include the other nations but that was done at a programmed time. National Israel could never understand (and accept) that. As John the Baptist told them God could make descendants to Abraham from those stones. And He did that (figuratively). When they didn't accept Jesus, from the stones, the dead matter, the dead(the nations), He did create a new people for Him. He unified the two parts of His ,always intended, people, Jews and gentiles.

In short this is what the covenant theology says. I just hope I haven't produced any confusion, it is not easy for a non English speaking person to explain that theory. So as the ancient church believed the church is the inheritor of God's inheritance to His people. But God is not ungrateful to the Hebrews. He has a special place for them in His heart for their fathers. But His salvation is not altered for them, they haven't got any superiority or previlidge compared to us as far as salvation is considered. We also know from Paul's epistle to Romans that all Israel will be saved at the very end when they will realize that the Messiah they were always expecting will not be the one they consider to be. Him is going to be the antichrist actually. So under the circumstances at the end they will turn to Him they crucified. What a touching moment that will be.

GBU

Jesus did not honor or even acknowledge Sabbath day, in fact, he made it a point to preach on Sabbath day and teach in the synagogues. It is man that created the Sabbath day not any doctrine of God. Have God in your heart seven days a week, you'll do fine.

My salvation is knowing that I am a child of God and that I have direct access to Him at all times. I don't need anyone to pray for me because God hears my prayers and yours just the same as he would the Popes. My prayers aren't eloquent nor are they recited Bible verses. Just me all by myself speaking to the Lord. I am witness to Matthew 7:7-8

You will get an answer to your question here... Proverbs 3: 6

In all thy ways acknowledge him, and he shall direct thy path.

Dear Baker Cindy.

Welcome, and we are glad to have you here with us.

I can tell you a bit about the site, but there are others who are much more savvy than I am.

1) You can click on KJV Standard to bring up a page where you can select a book, chapter and verse number for your own reading. On the bottom of each chapter there is a tab for commentary where you can read what commentators have written. There are several commentaries you can read for each chapter. Below the Commentary tab is a Chapter Discussion tab where you can read what other members have posted on the chapter. You can click on Add a Comment and submit your own comment on the chapter.

2) I am not familiar with the mobile tab.

3) The Discussion tab on the top bar of the main page will bring you to this discussion which shows all comments made on the site. You can click on Add a Comment tabe to post your own comments.

4) I am not familiar with the more tab.

5) At the bottom of the main page there are additional links to explore.

6) Also at the bottom of the main page is a link where you can contact the administrators of this site.

I hope this helps.

I hope others will add to what I have written here.

Ronald.

This explanation of Daniel 9 is very easy to understand. Thanks for doing so. I agree with your analysis.

Hello s. Spencer. He has sparingly. I hope he is able to post more often. Perhaps he is very busy. But I was also thinking of him lately since he hasn't posted much.

Thanks Brother Ronald.

I will go over these over the weekend.

God bless.

Good evening Brothers and Sisters

Have Brother Jesse been on the site lately?

Harmonizing Scripture with other Scripture.

When we take Ephesians 2:14-18, as confirmation that God is through with National Israel we need to examine that further.

Ephesians 2:14-18 Establishes the Church.

Ephesians 2:12

That at that time ye were without Christ, being aliens from the commonwealth of Israel, and strangers from the covenants of promise, having no hope, and without God in the world:

We see in this verse that the Gentiles were added to make up the body "Not Israel"

When the early Church started they were nearly All Jews.

The middle wall of partition was broken down for the Gentiles,

They were the strangers. Keep in mind these are the Messianic Jews. ( BOTH THE JEWS AND GENTILES SAVED BY ONE WAY, CHRIST. )

So what you see here "in regards to Salvation, there is NO Dispensation. "As always and forever" Christ is savior and the only way for all.

There is a dispensation in the believers view point in regards to time.

Israel in the OT looked forward to one who was coming.

Today Beleiving Jews and Gentiles looks back at one who has came.

So we have two groups here that forms the Church.

So we start with three Groups here. The Nation Israel divided up in two groups. "The believers and those who remained blinded. "

Also the believing Jews and the Gentiles.



In Romans chapters 9, 10, and 11 we see Paul deals with these same three groups.

You see two saved and forming the church.

You see one that has been broken off because of non-belief.

You see the same order of sequence as you do in Ephesians. The Gentiles added or "Grafted into the common wealth of Israel.

Romans 11:1-36 focus is on the broken off Group with the conclusion in vs 26. ( And so all Israel shall be saved: as it is written, There shall come out of Sion the Deliverer, and shall turn away ungodliness from Jacob:)

PLEASE READ ROMANS 11.

This is not talking about the Church, They're already mentioned throughout these 3 chapters as already saved.

Gad bless.

Hi S Spencer,

Part 1

Just to finish up on the Last Week. Sorry, this is so long but I hope you will have all the reasons for my understanding of this very important prophecy. I have learned much.

I know we differ on this and I believe we both respect each other as brothers and the truth is what matters. The word prince in vs 25 is the same as in vs. 26 it is the Hebrew word nagiyd or nagid meaning chief commander, leader, ruler, or prince, but never translated as king, but many times as the commander of a military.

Daniel 9:24 Seventy weeks, 490 years are given for the things that are determined to be accomplished that is the prophecy. 1. To finish the transgression. 2 To make an end of sins. 3 to make reconciliation for iniquity. 4 to bring in everlasting righteousness. 5 To seal up vision and prophecy. 6 To anoint the most holy.

These 6 things were determined upon Daniel's people, the lost sheep of Israel, and the holy city, Jerusalem. Were these things accomplished when Jesus first came, or will they be accomplished after Jesus second coming? These six things are the purpose of the prophecy, Dan. 9:24.

My understanding Jesus accomplished this when He first came. The 70 weeks which is 490 years are given for these 6 things to be accomplished.

1 To finish the transgression. From "transgress," to pass over or beyond; to overpass, as any rule prescribed as the limit of duty; to break or violate, as a law, civil or moral; the act of transgressing; the violation of a law, rebellion. Isaiah 53:5,8 Isaiah 53:11 Hebrews 9:15-18.

Jesus with a perfect life gave up his body to death; he fulfilled the first covenant of law and redeeming of the transgressions under the first covenant of law. He became sin for us, and with his blood made the new covenant being the only mediator of the New Testament that we through faith in Jesus Christ receive the promise of eternal inheritance. Offered first to the house of Israel then offered to the rest of the world.

See part 2

S Spencer on the last week.

Part 2

2 To make an end of sins (Whosoever committeth sin transgresseth also the law: for sin is the transgression of the law). The verb in the Hebrew text translated as "put an end to" can mean "to seal up". The covering of our sins was accomplished on the cross at Calvary. When he said IT IS FINISHED, he provided us with the garments (wedding garments) to cover our sins. Psalm 32:1-2 Matthew 1:21 John 1:29 Romans 8:3 1 Corinthians 15:3 Hebrews 10:8-11 1 John 3:5 Revelation 16:15.

Is there still sin today? Yes. Will there still be sin and death after Jesus's second coming? Yes. Even during the 1000 years, there will be sin and death until all is made new Rev. 21:1-4 but through Jesus, they are covered and sealed, Rev. 16:15

3 To make reconciliation for iniquity (Reconciliation is an element of salvation that refers to the results of the atonement, iniquity is guilt, crookedness, perverseness, that which is not straight or upright, moral distortion, in the dark. Colossians 1:20-22 Isaiah 53:6 Isaiah 53:11 Ephesians 2:16 Titus 2:14 2 Corinthians 5:18-19.

The word reconcile means to bring back to a former state of harmony Jesus reconciled both Jew and Gentile unto God in one body by the cross and now through Jesus we both Jew and Gentile have access by one Spirit unto the Father no more strangers or foreigners but fellow citizens. Making reconciliation for iniquity concerns our involvement in the work of salvation.

4 To bring in everlasting righteousness. Everlasting, no end, righteousness, justice, mercy, loving-kindness, in conformity to the demands of the covenant and according to God's will, fair and balanced. Isaiah 61:10-11 2 Corinthians 5:21 Romans 3:21-26 Romans 5:17-21 1 Peter 2:24.

See Part 3