All Discussion PAGE 400

Jema,

That is exceptionally well said. Amen!!

No scripture of itself interprets scripture, it takes other scriptures combined together to interpret truth.

1 John 3:9 Whosoever is born of God CANNOT commit sin, for his SEED (GOD) remaineth in him, and he CANNOT SIN because he is born of God.

Ezekiel 36:27 And I will put my Spirit (God is Spirit) in YOU and CAUSE you to walk in my statutes, and ye shall keep my judgements and DO them.

The kingdom of God only COMES to you if you believe what the word says.

Matthew 12:28 But if I (the Spirit of TRUTH) cast out devils (the spirit of deception) by the Spirit of God, then the Kingdom of God has COME unto you.

Was Paul saying something different; or, was he agreeing agreeing that is GOD IN YOU; HIS flesh and bone, that keeps you from sinning and not of yourself (your DEAD) only a NEW CREATION exist.

When you BELIEVE you are going to keep sinning in this life, then your going to keep sinning.

Matthew 8:13 .... and as thou hast BELIEVE, so be it done unto you ........

Do you BELIEVE you are a NEW CREATION, the flesh and bone OF CHRIST?

John 17:22 And the glory that thou has given me, I have GIVEN them, that they may be ONE as we are ONE.

If you don't believe that scripture, then the Kingdom of God has not YET COME to you.

God bless you

I believe that much of what is in the Old Testament is a foreshadow of the New Testament and that it's a great benefit to us as Christians , to have a good understanding of both . They are not separate things to me , they are a whole and there is nothing extraneous in the Bible , there are no coincidences and it's all deeply relevant and very helpful to us as it's symmetry and beauty help to strengthen our faith in the tough times . To see the perfection of God's Word is such a strengthener to me . God leaves nothing to chance . He provides everything for us in His Word , it is meat and drink to us , to me for sure . This life can be very difficult and distressing and it is really only the things that pertain to God that keep me sane and cheerful every day , if I have God's love and mercy in my life then I'm happy , truly happy . The things of this life are just pleasant distractions that don't have much substance and are only temporary , the Truth is eternal , my God is eternal , Thy Kingdom come .

It's interesting to know that the Biblia Valera 1602 Purificada and the King James Franaise (both translations of the KJV into French and Spanish Respectively) both use the equivalent of "idle Shepherd", which is wrong, it's "idol Shepherd".

I think this verse let us see the Great Mercy of God...

And in my haste, Jema, I neglected to mention two of the most important aspects of the Gospel. These are the Justice of God, and the Mercy of God.

Jema,

Thank you for this comment and thank you for starting a new thread.

There is no more important doctrine or teaching that God has given us in the Biblical than this:

What is the True Gospel? And what is the True Nature of God's Salvation Program?

I am absolutely convinced that everything in the Bible, every historical event, every passage, every verse in the entire Bible is teaching us something about God's Salvation Plan, i.e. the Gospel.

This includes all aspects of the Gospel such as the condition of mankind, sin, God's Judgment Plan, election, predestination, God's plan for this world, God's dealing with National Israel, God's dealing with the organized churches (i.e.the church age), the total destruction of this sin-cursed earth and creation of New Heavens and New Earth, the Eternity He has in store for those whom He saves, I could go on.

Sometimes God provides information regarding the Gospel in relatively clear language. Sometimes in language that is not at all immediately clear. Sometimes in language that is to be taken very literally. Sometimes in language that is parabolic in nature. And sometimes in language that is both very literal but also is a parable with deeper spiritual meaning. But ALWAYS related in some way to some aspect of the GOSPEL, which is circumscribed by the Entire Bible.

Jema, I have not responded specifically to what you have said in your post, but in several aspects I do agree.

Ultimately it is God Himself who must open our understanding to truth in accordance with His Will and His Timetable, as we search the scriptures.

Good Day, Mishael

Matthew 22:30 - For in the resurrection they neither marry, nor are given in marriage, but are as the angels of God in heaven.

(I believe God is very clear here that we will not marry in Heaven)

Luke 20:34 - 20:36

34 And Jesus answering said unto them, The children of this world marry, and are given in marriage:

35 But they which shall be accounted worthy to obtain that world, and the resurrection from the dead, neither marry, nor are given in marriage:

36 Neither can they die any more: for they are equal unto the angels; and are the children of God, being the children of the resurrection.

(This also is very clear that in Heaven there is no marriage nor giving of birth by the women)

Matt 22: 29-30

29 Jesus answered and said unto them, Ye do err, not knowing the scriptures, nor the power of God.

30 For in the resurrection they neither marry, nor are given in marriage, but are as the angels of God in heaven.

(again God makes it very clear...that in Heaven we do not marry NOR are we given away in marriage. God even goes as far as to tell them that they have ERRED. God is the same yesterday, today, and forever. Hollywood cannot change the TRUTH of God.)

We as the bride of Christ (Saved children of God) will have no desire to fill the love sought in this world by people...That love will be fulfilled by Christ...PERFECTLY AND COMPLETELY!

Rev 19 7-9

7 Let us be glad and rejoice, and give honour to him: for the marriage of the Lamb is come, and his wife hath made herself ready. 8 And to her was granted that she should be arrayed in fine linen, clean and white: for the fine linen is the righteousness of saints. 9 And he saith unto me, Write, Blessed are they which are called unto the marriage supper of the Lamb. And he saith unto me, These are the true sayings of God.

We will spend our eternity in Heaven, giving our Saviour the Glory He deserved in this life!!! Our desires will be those of Righteousness! Which all know is found in Christ!

Thanks Frankie J. Just going through your comments, with my understanding from the Scriptures.

a. 'You are in State 1, as in Eden before the fall' - I assume slowly progressing to attain the fullness of that state. The only problem with this is that you & I have a sin nature inherited from Adam & Eve, whereas before the fall Adam & Eve had no sin - they were pure. Romans 5:12-14. If we could ever reach that state before death, i.e. of total purity as A & E, there would be no need to die physically as sin would no longer be in our members & the sin nature once given without choice, would be eradicated. But death will come to all of us proving we are still sinners, and should the Lord tarry, our dying will prove without doubt that our inherited sin nature demands the death penalty ( Romans 6:23). For this Christ came, that we might be resurrected into new & eternal life because of His forgiveness of our sins thus giving us clear consciences before God.

b. Paul never ever reached full purity or sinlessness ( Romans 7:14-25) - he would have yearned for it but he knew that while in this body that desire to be exactly like his Savior would be impossible. And his exclamation: "O wretched man that I am", was his constant sense of failure before an Holy God, but he kept his body in subjection & his eyes fixed on Jesus, aiming for the prize ( Philippians 3:12-14).

c. I agree, 'being tempted is not a sin', even as Christ was tempted. But Jesus never gave in to it even to the agony of the Cross. Could we ever say the same for us sinners, destined for hell, but saved only by the Grace of God? The Work of the Spirit is constant & should be a witness inwardly & outwardly as we mature in faith & love - but our perfection will only come beyond the grave when our sin nature will be gone & "we will be like Him", both physically & when the flesh will be cleansed from all evil. Blessings.

praying for you Sister

please remember me and my family in your prayers today

Regarding the discussion about whether we are saved and cannot loose our salvation . I'm not supporting any one person's views but I will explain mine if I may . Jesus's prayer in John chapter 17 is very telling to me , I shall not expound it but I will leave it to you to infer what you will from it . I believe that God knows who will be among His treasures and we don't know about anybody else because we don't truly know the heart of anyone else , only God knows us totally . I look at all those TV evangelists living in luxury and I wonder whether or not they are truly saved ? There was a man in my congregation , married over twenty years . His wife discovered that she has H.I.V. He confessed that he had been regularly sleeping with men even before he was married . The church was just a lifestyle to him . We all thought he was a true Christian through and through , is he saved ? I don't know because I don't know his heart and I'm not his judge , God will judge him through Christ . We all sin , saved or not , none of us is clean but we are covered , Christ has covered us with his innocent blood and God doesn't see our sins anymore . That doesn't mean that we are sinless , it means Christ has paid the penalty for our sins and God will not impute them to us . Our relationship with Christ is very personal and we are not under the law we are under grace . There may be times in our lives where we will be faced with choices and sometimes those choices will involve us doing things that the law says is wrong , do I have to honour my violent abusive atheist parents ? You have all faced choices . God knows who is His , He knew before we were born . It's not our business to judge others , they have their own personal relationship with Christ . We may warn someone or advise someone but if they don't heed our warning that's their choice and they must work out their own salvation and speak to God about it through Christ . God knows everything about everyone , we don't .

Thank you Frankie J for your comment. Yes I did state, in support of the other comments, that sin would always be evident in a person's life while we walk this Earth. Not that we should let sin take control & then take comfort because we are saved, but that because we are saved, have been given God's Holy Spirit, therefore we ought to walk in that newness of life, hating even the smell of sin. But does sin ever leave us? As long as we're in sinful flesh, its appeal will always come to us in all its forms. How we deal with it, will reveal how well we are abiding in Christ & walking in the Spirit.

Then to Consider 1 John 3:4-10: as you have maybe implied that in verses 4, 8, 9, the word 'commit' is the active verb in relation to the one sinning. However, verse 6 hasn't got the word 'commit' but it is certainly implied, given that this was what John was writing about as he wrote it in those other verses.

So, does anyone who 'abides in Christ not sin (v6)?' If we are to consider verses 4, 8, & 9, then 'commit' is the same Greek word (poiei) for 'practising' (in these verses, as a 'present, active, participle verb'). This means, that John is not writing about a Christian not ever committing any sins, but that his life is not marked by a life of continual sin. Why not? Because if the one born again (v9) has been truly regenerated, he is now "abiding in Christ" (v6); that new relationship with the Holy Spirit & His Power in his life simply cannot permit a lifestyle of sin. If a Christian finds it easy to sin & continue unabated in it, he would need to have a close examination of himself, & done so in all haste, for verse 8 marks him as belonging to the devil.

Hi Chris

I just read your testimony of being born-again Oct 25/ 79. From our past conversations you stated that the two genlteman that posted before you gave good answers for the continuing in sin for life, so you would not add to it. Considering 1Jn3:5-10

Would you agree they're are some serious inconsistencies in your faith & the others who responded, that are very contrary to what the Scriptures plainly declare of being born again?

I do speak this out of concern for you & all others of like mindedness, for if our beliefs does not align up with Scriptures, then the expectation of our end will be false

Rev 22:15 the NKJV ends it with "love & practice a lie".

I pray that all would consider God's words, Proverbs 4:20; Matt 24:35

Frankie J

I wrote a 3 part comment entitled "Salvation". You have responded to part 1 where I have summarized in my own words some of what I believe the Bible declares regarding the Nature of God's Salvation Program.

Parts 2 and 3 offer some of the scriptural references that teach this.

Adam,

I think what you stated in this last comment regarding James 2, John 14:15 and Matt 7:21 is exactly what I have been saying.

The feathers, or wings, represent the presidents of the United States of America starting with Herbert Hoover when the secret combination was setup, the federal reserve bank, Carnegie & rothschild, Rockefeller, Ford, etc. (see the book The President Makers). The second feather was Franklin Delano Roosevelt (FDR) who had twice as long a "reign" as any other president (feather/wing). Then the body of the eagle passed a law to only ever allow two terms as president going forward. Short feathers and the presidents whose terms were cut short unnaturally (assassination JFK, impeachment/resignation Nixon, election fraud). Biden will be removed "unnaturally" from office in less time than Trump was in office "sooner away than the first". That will leave the next two to be removed at the same time by the large head in the midst of the Eagle (NSA/CIA, council on foreign relations Richard Haas, FBI) at which point they will blame the removal of those two individuals on others to justify their taking control of everything, waging war, oppressing everyone, and persecuting the saints (can't buy or sell without the mark of the beast). Fear not little flock. We know who wins in the end.

Hi Adam

1 Corinthians 3:13-15. is speaking of the same judgment as

2 Corinthians 5:10. Just in more detail.

Every man's work shall be made manifest: FOR THE DAY SHALL DECLARE IT, because it shall be revealed by fire; and the fire shall try every man's work of what sort it is.

If any man's work abide which he hath built thereupon, he shall receive a reward.

If any man's work shall be burned, he shall suffer loss: BUT HE HIMSELF SHALL BE SAVED; yet so as by fire.

The good and bad mentioned here is the good and bad works, Not good and bad people. That's why it says every man's WORKS shall be made manifest.

I do agree with you about the fruit and what you declared in the other post as you mentioned John 14:15.

Good works is a product of fruit barring.

And fruit barring is a product of being connected to the vine.

If we take that section further we would develop a context that

suggests Christ is talking about a condition of a person already saved.

He's not giving a requirement to get saved.

John 14:15-23. If ye love me, keep my commandments.

And I will pray the Father, and he shall give you another Comforter, that he may abide with you for ever; Even the Spirit of truth; whom the world cannot receive, because it seeth him not, neither knoweth him: but ye know him; for he dwelleth with you, and shall be in you....

He's making a contrast between those who love and obey him and the world who don't.

...and will manifest myself to him. Judas saith unto him, not Iscariot, Lord, how is it that thou wilt manifest thyself unto us, and not unto the world?

Jesus answered and said unto him, If a man love me, he will keep my words: and my Father will love him, and we will come unto him, and make our abode with him.

This is a description of one saved not a requirement to be saved.

If you are saved YOU WILL LOVE HIM, everything you do he causes it.

good night and God bless.

jn 3:3,5; 1 Jn 3:9



So all of you who replied to me, that one cannot overcome sin while we remain in these mortal bodies

are not going to enter the Kingdom of Heaven.

is this not Scriptural & sound reasoning?

In Love & Truth

Frankie J

James 2 explains this.

John 14:15

Grace saves, not works. Good works are the fruit of a genuine follower of Christ. Without works or fruit one might question that person's walk. And without obedience to Christ is that person a real Christ follower? Some fall into this category: Matthew 7:21

Matt 5:16; 2 Pet 1:4-8; 1 Pet 1:6,7; Luke 12:43; James 1:4

Jesus said, Father forgive them, for they know not what they do.

May the Lord bless you & keep you, may His Light shine upon you & give you peace..

in Love & Truth

Frankie J

Brother Adam:

One of the few things wrong with the King James Bible is the Greek word that means; age, or of the age, was translated eternity or everlasting, not age as it should be.

Eternity is divided into ages or generations, the age or generation we are now in has been so far about 2000 yrs.

When this age is complete then there is another age or generation after that, and so on till all the ages have come to and end.

Christ saved everyone by his resurrection, most haven't been judged by God's word to come to that truth.

Presently God is calling out a priesthood, that at some point in the ages to come, will join Christ as judges to judge the earth.

The believers will be judges; and they, the unbelievers, will confess Christ is Lord and saviour.

There is two deaths, two judgements, two resurrection.

Believers are in the first death, first resurrection and first judgement, all others are in the second death, second resurrection and second judgement,

The saints of the first death, first resurrection and first judgement will be the judges if those in the second death, second resurrection and second judgement.

Isaiah 26:9 ...when thy JUDGEMENTS are in the earth, the inhabitants of the world will learn righteousness.

Psalms 149:9 To execute upon them the judgement written: this honour hath all his saints.

Revelation 2:26 And to him that overcometh (deception) ......to him will I give power over the nations.

God Bless You

Hi Ronald.

Thank you for your time chart.

It's pretty much like mine at first glance.

But the second part of your post I can't agree with.

You mentioned; "We cannot put the people in 70 AD and the prince in the future.

I partially agree with you there.

The people of the prince is future to Daniel but past to us.

The Prince that shall come is clearly going forward after the Messiah cut off and future of the Destruction of Jerusalem.

"And after threescore and two weeks shall Messiah be cut off, but not for himself: and the people of the prince that shall come...."

You mentioned the usage of King Nebuchadnezzar as an example to Christ being the Prince of of Rome.



In the OT God raised up rulers and nations to chasten Israel and he called them his anointed, "They were raised to power for a certain purpose"

But he never called them his people.

Messiah the Prince associates Jesus with Israel connected by the word Messiah.

But often times in the book of Daniel prince is used consistently to identify the demonic source behind the scene influencing the concurring nations.

Daniel 10:13, and Daniel 10:20. for example.

Rome dominion never ended.

The prince that shall come represents them.

We see three world powers in Daniels images.

We see the princes behind those powers with the dreadful beast rising out of the last one. "Rome"

and he shall confirm a covenant for one week. If this is Jesus what part of the Gospels declare this 7 year covenant?

You mentioned earlier the 3.5 years before the crucifixion when Christ was baptized as the half way point of the 70th week.

How did you get 3.5 years and can you give details of the last 3.5 years?

I've shared my view earlier in my original reply to this post. .

Thanks in advance. .

God bless

Thank you for sharing that Jesse, I will add that to the list. It indeed says "he saved us" past tense in Titus 3:5.

But two verses later in Titus 3:7 it says we "should be made heirs" and "hope of eternal life". That now returns to an outcome waiting to be determined. Hope of eternal life is a future thing hoped for usually in the future, not present or past, and should be made heirs is also looking to the future.

"That being justified by his grace, we should be made heirs according to the hope of eternal life." Titus 3:7 KJV

One possible explanation to reconcile this with the other verses like 1 Peter 1:13, 1 Peter 1:51, Phil 2:12, 2 Timothy 1:12 is that the statement of Jesus saving us is true and universally available for all of humanity. However on an individual level it still seems it depends on someone's choices- whether someone chooses to follow Jesus or not. The Bible already says most won't choose this and most will go to hell Matthew 7:13. So when it says "he saved us" combined with that context, maybe that is a general statement that Jesus died to save all of us, but we still must choose to follow Him and accept that hope of eternal life. This is currently what these verses are seeming like.

So, the list now has 3 verses supporting the already saved idea compared to those about a future salvation. Does anyone have more?

Landry if salvation was already given to everyone do you believe everyone was saved including atheists and satanists?

Hi S Spencer,

Thanks for sharing that, but I don't see much Biblical evidence for 3 different judgments and without more evidence just think its describing the one same event: the day of judgment. Just because in Revelations it goes into detail about the throne being white and just because the other scriptures about judgment don't mention that doesn't mean its separate judgments. Bible books already describe things differently. For example one place says Judas fell headlong and guts spilled out and another says he hung himself. Well, maybe it was both- that he hung himself then maybe the rope broke and he fell down.

2 Corinthians 5:10 seems to debunk the 3 judgment idea as it clearly describes one judgment for all and it says "whether good or bad" - so its not just for rewards and not just for punishment; this verse says it's both. This is also congruent with other scripture in how the end times play out.

God bless.

I'm praying and asking God to heal me from the racism and bullying i experience in the past months now. i'm a black woman.

Hi Brother Adam.

Judgment

Part 1.

I know we've went over this in the past. I just wanted to share an article that may bring further light to this topic.

There are three principal judgments that are often confused: the Bema Seat Judgment, the Sheep and Goat Judgment, and the Great White Throne. They are each quite different.

They say experience is a hard teacher because it gives the test first and the lessons afterward. However, we have ample lessons in life well in advance of our final exam. Paul has given us numerous written guides to help us prepare for it.

Yet we all do have a last "final exam" still ahead of us: "We must all appear before the Bema seat of Christ

And every day that our Lord tarries gives us an additional day to prepare for it.

What is the "Bema seat"?

Where will it be held?

When is it given?

What is at stake?

What are the grading criteria?

THE BEMA SEAT.

This judgment is often taught as simply an awards ceremony, but that is not entirely correct. It was the tribunal seat, the judicial bench, the judgment seat, or throne of the one in charge. Herod Agrippa I addressed the people of Tyre and Sidon from his Bema seat.

Jesus was brought before Pilate and his Bema seat. Paul was accused before Proconsul Gallio; and brought before Festus at Caesarea facing a Bema seat. (A relic of one was found among the ruins in Corinth.)

There are three principal judgments that are often confused:

The Bema Seat Judgment,

The Sheep and Goat Judgment, and The Great White Throne. They are each quite different.

See Part 2.

Adam.

Part 2.

The Bema Seat deals with rewards for obedience, crowns, and the call of the Bride to the Marriage of the Lamb which occurs in the Father's house.

The Sheep and Goat Judgment is on the earth. Three separate parties are involved, and mortals are judged on the basis of their "works."

The Great White Throne occurs at the end of the Millennium, deals with the unsaved dead, and ushers in the New Heavens, the New Earth, and the New Jerusalem.

The Bema Seat Judgment is apparently the first order of business for the translated saints after the Harpazo. Everyone present will be "saved;" salvation is not the issue here. (That was concluded on a wooden cross erected in Judea about 2,000 years ago!) Everyone present will have been saved by the completed work of our Lord Jesus. The issue here is fruit-bearing, not salvation.

All are building on the same foundation, but with vastly differing results.

[ According to the grace of God which is given unto me, as a wise masterbuilder, I have laid the foundation, and another buildeth thereon. But let every man take heed how he buildeth thereupon. For other foundation can no man lay than that is laid, which is Jesus Christ.

1 Corinthians 3:10-11

"Let every man take heed:" A solemn warning. We are God's Building. We are only subcontractors.

The evaluation procedure is then detailed:

Now if any man build upon this foundation gold, silver, precious stones, [or] wood, hay, stubble;

1 Corinthians 3:12 (KJV)

Notice that there are six commodities in two groups, in descending order of worth. Three are products of a God's creative act, not growth or development; three are the result of natural growth and development (from our old nature?).

See Part 3.

Adam.

Part 3.

The first three are permanent. The last three will perish under fire. (The largest load of hay or wood would be worth less than the smallest diamond.)

Every man's work shall be made manifest: for the day shall declare it, because it shall be revealed by fire; and the fire shall try every man's work of what sort it is.

1 Corinthians 3:13 (KJV)

Also, notice that the "work" is being appraised, not the person. It is the work being tested by fire, not the individual. All are building on the same foundation, but the results are vastly different.

If any man's work abide which he hath built thereupon, he shall receive a reward.

1 Corinthians 3:14 (KJV)

Rewards, not salvation, are the issue. Among these rewards, five crowns may be included: the Crown of righteousness, Crown of glory, Crown of life, incorruptible Crown, and Crown of rejoicing.

Salvation is invariably presented as a free gift; rewards are earned by works (fruit-bearing).

Salvation is a present possession; rewards are a future attainment given by Him at His Coming.

If any man's work shall be burned, he shall suffer loss: but he himself shall be saved; yet so as by fire.

1 Corinthians 3:15 (KJV)

So you have been saved: what have you done with it?

That which is done for sake of personal gain, popularity, influence, or its impression on the world, will be for naught.

See Part 4.