All Discussion PAGE 401

Adam.

Part 4

LOT AS AN EXAMPLE.

Lot was vexed daily. Abraham was not vexed; he had separated himself from the world. God destroyed Sodom but saved Lot, "yet as by fire." Everything he had lived for was burned up.

By Chuck Missler.

Asking for strong protection and breakthrough for us and all in need. Lord Jesus please fight our battles ( Ex. 14:14).

Thank you and PRAISE you Father, Lord Jesus

Brother Adam:

The scriptures I quoted is not about immediate salvation; salvation was GIFTED to all men 2000 years ago, you were saved by the resurrection of Christ.

It was finished 2000 years ago, all that is left is for the Holy Ghost to reveal that TRUTH to you.

God bless you.

These last three years are telling of either or trust in Christ or in flesh. A pokey poke was mandated. My answer was no. I and others fought and stood on God's word no matter the outcome. Now some of us know this ties into the transhumanist agenda the more we research. Many thrones and principalities are complicit in this agenda.

People are dying suddenly now more than ever. Hmm. My prayers are for justice for them and the complicit every day in Jesus' name. Truly that is a precursor to the mark if nothing else. Jeremiah 17:5, "Cursed be the man that putteth his trust in man."

amos 5 says beyong damascus but yea them being deported to that spot would explain the yoruba but not the whole nk because latinos and natives got proof for them being northern kingdom israelites aswell

heres the thing right 2esdras 13:45 says it took over a year and a half assyrya to west africa dont seem like it would take them a year and a half ,assyria to america do tho .

2 of 2

..... Eph 6:12; 2 Cor 10:3,4,5; Matt 15:18; Matt 12:34 both seeds or kingdoms are within.

Paul gives us an insight of his growth in grace in 1Cor 9:27; he considers himself capable to falling, he kept his body under, then in Rom 8:35-39; he had reach a level of the stature an fullness of Christ that nothing could separate Him from the love of Christ Jesus his Lord. Sin separates, as Eden experience tell us & our own experiences bares witness to us.

Chris; you've accurately describe in your own experience His Grace/Light spiritual appearance within your heart, following Him in this manner will Titus 2: 14; Eze 36:25; the washing of the water of the Word; the incorruptible Seed; becoming holy, blameless unreproachable in His sight, that we may experience 2 Cor 6:16; Gal 2:20; Luke 6:40; Jn 17: 21-24

The veil of the flesh is taken away by Christ, that the intimacy, oneness with Him in Spirit may be known & felt in our hearts here on earth.

Hope this stimulates your query;

in love & truth

Franke J

1 of 2

Hi Chris

I welcome your interest in my question;

There's 2 states that we may attain in this life, 1st, is to be brought back to the innocents of Eden before the fall, where we're yet capable of falling, if were not steadfastly abiding in Him. Jn 15:5; 1Jn 3:6; the fruit mention here is that of His Spirit, the Divine Nature, & good works naturally follows.

2nd state is to be brought into the state in Christ, who never fell, though He was tempted, being tempted is not a sin. This life is explained in Rom 6:2-8; Eph 2:6; Jn 17:21-24; Luke 6:40; the high calling of God in Christ Jesus, to be experience here & now.

Paul in Gal 1:3; 2 Cor 1:2 was speaking from the Presence of God, He was phyically on earth, but His consciousness was in His Presence, Eph 6:20

This is impossibility as long as we remain sinners.

As one reads God's words; 1Jn 3:3-5, 9,10; Col 1:22; Holy Spirit creates a desire, an expectation to actually experience what the writers of the Scriptures possessed & lived. This standard of perfection/holiness that Jesus commands in Matt 5:48; is declared as the same of the Father. He as a loving Father has provided the Way & the Means to attain it & that through His Son, His Spirit of Grace / Light

At my present measure, I'm in the 1st state; What God requires of us all is to walk according to the Truth that we know, & as we abide in Him through the 1 Pet 1:7-9; we grow in Grace & more Light is given unto us; Pro 4:18 & this perfection can be added too 2 Cor 4:6,7; Salvation is not instant, Heb 5:9; 9:28; Rom 10:10; the words "unto salvation"; denotes a progressive work of sanctification of the Spirit unto obedience, & there's a mighty work of the Spirit to be wrought in cleansing out the temple of all the foul guest that has inhabit us in the times of our alienation....

Thank You Jesus for breaking the singleness curse off of Sarah, please remove from her, whatever is hindering her from progressing in relationships, in Jesus MIGHTY Name, Father God let her continue to walk in the Kingdom of God, Hallelujah Hallelujah Hallelujah, Lord Jesus keep her healthy and whole: physically, emotionally and spiritually, always, let her life be long and healthy, free and happy and prosperous, may she have a good, healthy, happy family of her own soon, and if it is God's will, to please bless her relationship with Sammy, please continue to pray for Sammy's salvation, please bless and protect Sarah and her entire life, and her entire surroundings, strengthen and protect her hips, and knees, and keep her happy, healthy, whole, sane and sound, deliver her and Sammy from every evil, in Jesus Name, we pray, Amen.

Adam,

I want to be very clear regarding our works.

If we believe that God saves us BECAUSE we have in some way been obedient to the Law of God, i.e. good works. That is a gospel of Grace plus Works. That is not the True Gospel of the Bible.

The passages you reference in James and others are proof that if God has indeed saved us there will be evidence in our life that this is so by our increasing obedience to the Law of God because we now have a resurrected soul that desires this and is no longer in rebellion against God. But our resurrected soul, which cannot initiate sin, still resides in a body that lusts after sin and so, until God completes our salvation at the Last Day by giving us our resurrected spiritual body, we will not obey God's Law perfectly, and can indeed even fall into grievous sin, like David did, as we take our eyes off Christ. But we see David's reaction to this in Psalm 51.

The bottom line is that if God has saved us, if we have become a "new creature in Christ", we will find in our life an Ernest Ongoing desire to be obedient to God. This will be the RESULT of our salvation but not the CAUSE. This is why we are commanded to "crucify the flesh and its desires". It is only God's Mercy if He has saved us because we do not deserve that salvation in any way.

If we do not see this attitude and repentance from sin in our life it may be that we have not become saved. As God warns us to "examine ourselves to see if we are in the faith".

But as long as we have the breath of life or until Christ returns at the Last Day, we may still cry out to God for His Mercy, as did the Ninevites, that God might save us.

"A broken and contrite heart I will not despise".

Our salvation is 100% the work of Christ, God Himself. Our works cannot and do not contribute to our salvation in any way.

Hi S Spencer

We are not in the millennium it is after His second coming. He defeats the ten kingdoms/countries the army of Satan, the beast, and the false prophet at Armageddon the great supper of God, Rev. 16:12-16 Rev,17:12-14 Rev. 19:11-2. Then Satan is put in the bottomless pit, Rev 20:1-3.

Judgment of those in the first resurrection who will reign with Jesus Rev. 20:4-6, the kingdom is set up and will last for 1000 years, then Satan is released and deceives the world and gathers them, the number as the sands of the sea around the camp of the saints at Jerusalem to the last battle. Fire comes down from heaven and devoured them and Satan is cast into the lake of fire,

Then the white throne judgment of all who were not in the first judgment will be judged and all whosoever was not found in the Book of Life were cast into the lake of fire. Dan. 12:1-3 Matt. 12:36 John 5:28-29 Acts 17:31 Eccl. 12:14

We cannot put the people in 70 AD and the prince in the future. The door of the ark, the men of the city, the lambs of the flock, these things cannot be separated. It is the people that shall come, who are of the prince and this prince is not some future being who had nothing to do with 70 AD.

We know by scripture Jesus confirmed the covenant and we know by scripture He was cut off/crucified and we know by scripture by His death there is no more offering for sin, they ceased, Heb. 10:14-18

Matt. 24:14-15 can also have been for those in 66-70AD history records the believers in Jesus got out and went to Pella, Luke 19:43-44 Luke 21:20-21. My other posts should show my understanding is Dan. 9 does not apply to the end times it was a prophecy of the Messiah, Jesus, and the amount of time given to Daniel's people, the city of Jerusalem, and the temple, and the judgment for their abominations.

After the 70 weeks, the mystery of the Gospel that was hidden was revealed to the Gentiles, Acts 8:54-57 Acts 9:3-15 Acts 10:9-16 Rom. 11:25

God bless,

RLW

Hi Adam.

part 2.

God name is at stake when he deal with his people.

Look how God deals with Israel even after he Judged/punished them.

Ezekiel 36:19-23. And I scattered them among the heathen, and they were dispersed through the countries: according to their way and according to their doings I judged them.

And when they entered unto the heathen, whither they went, they profaned my holy name, when they said to them, These are the people of the LORD, and are gone forth out of his land.

But I had pity for mine holy name, which the house of Israel had profaned among the heathen, whither they went.

Therefore say unto the house of Israel,

Thus saith the Lord GOD; I DO NOT THIS FOR YOUR SAKES, O house of Israel, BUT FOR MINE HOLY NAME'S SAKE, which ye have profaned among the heathen, whither ye went.

AND I WILL SANCTIFY MY GREAT NAME, which was profaned among the heathen, which ye have profaned in the midst of them; and the heathen shall know that I am the LORD, saith the Lord GOD, when I shall be sanctified in you before their eyes.

Also;

Isaiah 48:9-11.

Many more examples.

I will continue at another time.

God bless

Hi Adam.

Thanks for your response.

I don't think you will find it worded the way you worded it in your post with the actual word "Immediately".

But salvation is immediate when one truly believes and throughout the scripture it teaches that.

Actually in your original post you mentioned "some saying this before judgment".

I believe in your past posts you believes no one knows they're saved until Judgment.

The response from most of us is that a Christian is not part of that Judgment.

However we won't get into that here.

Here's what I will like to declare yo you.

I honestly believe there has been verses given that declares what you are looking for. And the Bible as a whole speaks on this aspect.

God spoke also in types that speaks on this.

Here's a few examples;

When God destroyed Sodom, When was lot saved?

When he left?

To answer that we would have to ask, When was he declared righteous.

God told Abraham he wouldn't destroy it if he found so many righteous. But do you notice the Angels wouldn't do anything until Lot was out of there!!

Genesis 19:21-22.

So was Lot saved before or after Judgment?

Let's look at Noah's Ark in the same light. When was Noah declared righteous?

When the Ark doors opened and closed or when God told him to start building it? Genesis 6:8. (The ark is a type.)

Adam, Galatians 4:28 says "Now we, brethren, as Isaac was, are the children of promise.

When we look at the story of Abraham getting ready to offer up Isaac as a sacrifice, If you study that carefully you'll see Abraham had faith before he started his journey! In Genesis 22:7-8 Isaac asked Abraham where is the Lamb for the burnt offering?

Abraham said, God will provide himself a burt offering!!

Abraham knew Isaac was the Child God promised would be his heir and he would have to raise him from the dead.

We're children of promise also!

By faith we're joint heirs of the promise with Abraham. God keeps his covenants and promises.

We're saved now.

God bless.

Hi Jema.

I knew we had a different view on this for years.

And yes, God can put his word in a donkey and make him speak truth.

It's the spirit that reveals.

However there is a narrow gate and God is narrow minded. He means what he says and never compromise any of his attributes.

It's men who is controlled by Satan who speak lies, They are the tares that scripture warns us about.

We're not to pluck them up but we don't join them to come against the truth.

It's interesting that you don't just identify them by their doctrine, you shall know them by their fruit.

And they hate the Brothern.

God bless.

Sure will David.

God bless.

please remember me and my family today in your prayers

Yes , satan is a seducer , he tells lies and tells us what we want to hear , he uses smooth words and wants us to love and worship him and not God . This about sums up human arrogance and pride I think , especially the scientific community . Many scientists do actually believe that there must be a creator but most seek to out do God and prove themselves superior to Him . This is just my thoughts on the matter , we will know all things for sure one day . Until then may we all walk in love and learn from each other :) .

When you say that he is satan himself , what form will be take ? If he looks like some horrific demon with horns and a pointy tail then I can't imagine anyone wanting to be on his side ! He's a seducer , he tells lies , he tells humans what they want to hear , he wants the glory due only to God . My guess is that he will take a man's heart just like he did to Judas and even to Peter briefly . He will look like one of us and present himself as some kind of saviour , he will have ' created ' something , something to do with life , health etc , something that will fool the unbelievers into thinking that God definately doesn't exist . An open vision of a monster isn't going to attract many followers , even atheists and idolaters wouldn't follow a monster . He's a wolf in sheep's clothing don't forget , he will invent something that gives him great glory and disproves ( or so he will think ) the existence of God . We shall all find out eventually if we are still alive . Thank you for your posts David , I always enjoy them , you are insightful and polite :) .

He's much better this morning :) thanks .

But that would mean that those sinners in hell are in some form or other still alive ? How can they live forever when eternal life is the gift of God to those who believe in His Son ? The wages of sin is death , so surely that means that those who die in their sin are dead , not alive and on some level conscious in a place of torture . That's a contradiction that I can't come to terms with . We will all know all things eventually S Spenser and just because some of us disagree on some points doesn't mean that we can't all still learn something from each other , at least I hope that's the case :) . Blessings to you .

Yes , I agree with you . Have you noticed though that unbelievers are never 'asleep ' they are always dead in their sins , this sleep seems to only ever be applied to the faithful .

Titus 3: 5

Please read titus 3: 1-11

I pray God's peace be upon you.

Love you all

JESUS said to the Jews: John 5:43-47KJV:

43 - I am come in my Father's name, and ye receive me not: if ANOTHER(AN IMPOSTER - Who's is him?) shall come in his own name, him ye will receive.

Paul apostle prophesied about that IMPOSTOR, saying - 2 Thessalonians 2:3-4 and 9 :

3 Let no man deceive you by any means: for that day shall not come, except there come a falling away first, and that man of sin be revealed, the son of perdition;

4 Who opposeth and exalteth himself above all that is called God, or that is worshipped; so that he as God sitteth in the temple of God, shewing himself that he is God.

9 Even him, whose coming is after the working of Satan with all power and signs and lying wonders, (See Revelation 13:11-14)

John 1:11KJV - JESUS came unto His own, and His own received Him not.

Philippians 2:6 - 6 Who, being in the form of GOD, thought it not robbery to be equal with GOD:

May our Lord GOD bless and keep us, and give us His protection

Amen

Acts 4:11-12KJV reveal there is none other NAME under heaven EXCEPT JESUS whereby we must be saved :

11 JESUS is the stone which was set at nought of you builders, which is become the head of the corner.

12 Neither is there salvation in any other: for there is none other NAME (except JESUS-the Word made flesh-the Word is GOD) under heaven given among men, whereby we must be saved.

JESUS explained : Matthew 11:27KJV - ... No man knoweth the Son, but the Father; NEITHER KNOWETH any MAN the FATHER, save the Son, and he to whomsoever the Son will reveal Him. (As said John the Baptist, angel of the Lord : "No man hath seen GOD at any time, the only begotten Son, which is in the BOSOM of the Father, He hath declared Him (made Him known) . John 1:18KJV

Hallelujaaa!!!

I now understand Adam as to what you're seeking. I equated Biblical statements about one's salvation the same as if one stated specifically that salvation was their present possession. But if you require other Scriptures, including the Luke 19:9 you gave, as well as Luke 23:42,43, we could include Acts 16:30-34 (they rejoiced, not because that salvation would be in the future, but by believing they would be saved now). Also, Acts 10:44-48 (the Holy Spirit was poured out on the Gentiles, not just for the Jews; & they spoke in other tongues & were water baptized). Though we don't hear these people (the jailer & Cornelius) saying the words that you require, yet Luke records what he observed, that a transformation had taken place.

As to the "dozens of verses supporting a future salvation", one could examine those verses you gave & find that there is a differing understanding whether those verses speak of a future salvation or of victoriously living out one's present salvation & of eternal rewards.

So, we come back to the whole understanding of salvation by faith, the Work of the Holy Spirit in a believer's life, & living a life presently but not knowing whether God will or will not bring about a salvation at Judgement time. These points would certainly take us away from the point you're raising, but I believe they are necessary so as to understand what takes place when a person repents, believes, & gets baptized by the Spirit. Does the Spirit really even baptise him? Does the Spirit leave & enter him at will? What place does Holy Spirit Power hold in a believer's life? Can we even call him a believer - maybe just a follower of Christ awaiting/hoping for approval on that future day of salvation? These are some of the questions that disturb me if I'm not an assured believer & accepted by God on the merits of His Son's Sacrifice - an adopted child of God now. The question then is: am I saved right now or not till later - maybe?

Hi Brother S Spencer,

Some of those questions may be answered in God's Word.

The purpose of my original question posted is to collect verses and I still only have 1 supporting salvation now which is the one I found. Of the verses posted I don't see any saying we're saved immediately on earth before judgment. Some cited being born again and being a new creature which are great verses but being transformed is not salvation.

Simply evaluating this on a Biblical support basis there are far more verses supporting future salvation instead of the present one people commonly cite. I believe I listed 7 to 1 before and I found more that support future too, so it might be 10 to 1.

So if there are no other verses supporting this why does a majority of believers believe in something so hardly supported by the Bible? Could it originate from cultural factors? Funerals for example- often people try to comfort others by saying they're in heaven right now despite Daniel 12:2, Job 14:12, 1 Thessalonians 4:13-18, 1 Corinthians 15:18-20, Matthew 9:24.

Just because there are questions does the questions themselves do not invalidate the truth of God's Word. God bless.

It sounds like you're conflating being born again with salvation. Does the Bible say these occur at the exact same time? If so, please share those verses.

"If ye love me, keep my commandments." John 14:15 KJV

Jesus said this. Jesus emphasized obedience and keeping His commandments. Those who are so opposed to obeying Jesus should probably be afraid of the upcoming judgment, because someone who doesn't obey Jesus might not be a Jesus follower.

"Not every one that saith unto me, Lord, Lord, shall enter into the kingdom of heaven; but he that doeth the will of my Father which is in heaven." Matthew 7:21 KJV

How can anyone believe the Bible, read this Bible verse and then believe obeying God is bad?

"But I will forewarn you whom ye shall fear: Fear him, which after he hath killed hath power to cast into hell; yea, I say unto you, Fear him." Luke 12:5 KJV

JESUS' own testimony about Himself is wonderful, and reveals to us in depth the mystery of His existence here in the greatness of the Universe created by GOD, the Word, GOD the Father, full of heavenly bodies, and here on Earth, specifically, He populated the planet with living beings, and sat in the circle of the Earth, as is written in Isaiah 40:21-22KJV:

21 Have ye not known? have ye not heard? hath it not been told you from the beginning? have ye not understood from the foundations of the earth?

22 It is GOD that sitteth upon the circle of the Earth, and the inhabitants thereof are as grasshoppers; ...

That said, we must remember what JESUS said from His own existence: - John 17:4-5KJV: as follow:

4 I have glorified thee on the earth: I have finished the work which thou gavest me to do. ( John 1:3, and 5:17, and Hebrews 1:1-2KJV testify about this that JESUS said. Take a look.)

5 And now, O Father, glorify thou me with thine own self with the glory which I had with thee before the WORLD was. (John the Baptist, the angel of the LORD, testified about this, saying: John 1:18KJV- 18 No man hath seen GOD at any time, the only begotten Son, which is in the bosom of the Father, He hath declared Him.)

Paul testified, saying: Colossians 1:14-16KJV:

14 In JESUS we have redemption through His blood, even the forgiveness of sins:

15 Who is the image of the INVISIBLE GOD -the Word- the Word is GOD- , the firstborn of every creature (the Word made flesh):

16 For by Him -by JESUS- were all things created, that are in heaven, and that are in earth, visible and invisible, whether they be thrones, or dominions, or principalities, or powers: all things were created by Him, and for Him: ( John 1:3, and 5:17, and Hebrews 1:1-2 confirm)

David0921

The antichrist is a man. He is called (that man of sin) and (son of perdition) in ( 2 Thess. 2:3).

He is called (the beast) in ( Rev 13:1-5) v2 and v4 clearly tells us the dragon gave power to (the beast). They are not the same.

In ( Rev. 19:20) (The beast) and the false prophet are cast Alive into a lake of fire burning with brimstone.

In ( Rev. 20:1-3) Satan is bound for a thousand years. (The beast was just cast into a lake of fire).

In ( Rev. 20:10) The devil is cast into the lake of fire and brimstone ((where (the beast) and the false prophet are)).

They are not the same.

Satan will possess him just like he did Judas Iscariot in ( Luke. 22:3) and in ( John. 13:27) as the 1st son of perdition ( John. 17:12) The only other time the words "son of perdition" is in the Bible is ( 2 Thess. 2:3)

"The thing that hath been, it is that which shall be; and that which is done, is that which shall be done: and there is no new thing under the sun" ( Ecclesiastes. 1:9)

If the 1st son of perdition (Judas Iscariot) was possessed by Satan. then the 2nd son of perdition in ( 2 Thess. 2:3) who exalteth himself above all that is called God, and sitteth in the temple of God, shewing himself that he is God ( 2 Thess. 2:4) will also be possessed by Satan.

Truth matters.