All Discussion PAGE 403

S Spencer

Part 2

If we look at the saying "the ABOMINATION OF DESOLATION" spoken of by Daniel the prophet we see in Dan. 11:31 the abomination that maketh desolate and Dan. 12:11 the abomination that maketh desolate set up. In these two, an abomination is a single act of putting up a pagan idol, sacrificing an unclean animal, or defiling the Holy of Holies in the temple.

But the act done in the temple, the abomination is what makes it desolate, like what Antiochus did, and if I am not wrong this is something that is said the beast/antichrist will do. In Dan. 9 it is for the overspreading of abominations he shall make it desolate. For the overspreading of abominations, this is not a single act, it is many acts and plural abominations and for these abominations, he, God by Jesus makes it desolate, the city and the temple, not by one doing a single act that makes just the temple desolate.

My understanding Dan. 2 and 7 have no connection to Dan. 9. The only way is if the prince in Vs. 26 and the he in Vs. 27 is the beast/antichrist. My understanding of scripture they do not support this. If the last week was in the past what does that mean for those who are looking for it in the future?

I know we differ on this, but I hope this helps see where my understanding comes from.

In love, God bless,

RLW

Hi S Spencer, thank you, brother.

I know you travel. Concerning part 1, vs. 26 the people of the prince; my understanding.

"the people of the prince that shall come", the word (of) makes a connection between two entities, like, the wheels of a car, the legs of a table, or the soldiers/people of the prince.

In Vs. 26 the word of unites the people to the prince. If the people were the ones who destroyed the city and sanctuary/temple in 70 AD, the prince was either Titus or as some say, Jesus, like God used Babylon in 586 BC due to the same Hebrew word for the prince being used in Vs. 25.

If the prince in Vs. 26 is the beast/antichrist that shall come, are the people of the prince also to come and destroy the city and sanctuary in the future? How could the beast/antichrist who has not risen as of yet, have and control people in 70 AD?

I do not see Nebuchadnezzar's dream in Dan. 2 connected to Dan. 9. My understanding of that is the head is Babylon, the breast and arms are the Medo-Persian Empire, the belly and thighs are the Greek Empire, the legs are the Roman Empire, and the mixed feet and toes are the future ten kings/kingdoms of the beast Rev. 17:12-14 and the stone is Jesus's second coming Rev. 19:11-21.

My understanding of Matt. 23:37-38 is a consummation of Dan. 9:27 "for the overspreading of abominations he shall make it desolate," (the abominations are the evil the leaders have done and they did not hear God's word, the charge) (he shall make it desolate is for this the city and temple will be left desolate, the sentence, utter destruction) Matt. 23:39 pointing to His second coming.

See part 2

Hi Chris, the Bible supports being assured of future salvation.

Instead what I'm looking for verses supporting people saying they were already saved (in the past) and already have salvation.

So far there seem to be dozens of verses supporting a future salvation and none supporting a past or present salvation before judgment, but only one which I just now found supporting a present salvation: Luke 19:9

Verses supporting Future salvation:

1. Phil 2:12 - "work out" salvation as if its a process and not a one moment event.

2. 1 cor 3:6-8 (conditional- "reward according to his own labour.") It doesn't say the reward came in advance before any labor was done or that labor was irrelevant.

3. 1 Cor 9:24-27 "run the race" to win the prize, not the 'race was already won' and you already have the prize.

4. Hebrews 10:26 "For if we sin wilfully after that we have received the knowledge of the truth, there remaineth no more sacrifice for sins,"

5. 1 Peter 1:13 "...hope to the end for the grace that is to be brought unto you at the revelation of Jesus Christ;"

6. 1 Peter 1:5 - "...salvation ready to be revealed in the last time." If salvation was given now, why would it say its not given until the "last time"?

7. 2 Timothy 1:12 "For the which cause I also suffer these things: nevertheless I am not ashamed: for I know whom I have believed, and am persuaded that he is able to keep that which I have committed unto him against that day." It says "keep" like a promise, like assurance of future salvation? It doesn't say Jesus already saved me and delivered the commitment.

Verses supporting Present salvation:

1. Luke 19:9

Currently:

7 verses supporting future salvation

1 verse supporting present salvation.

Any others?

Romans Ch 2 V 11-29 and Hebrews Ch 11 V 6 , love and respect in Christ .

Thanks for your reply Frankie J . The law doesn't save the gentiles ( non believers or those who haven't had the opportunity to know God ) only faith in His Son and what he accomplished , our faith in Christ , that's what saves us . I know lots of nice moral kind people who are atheists or idolators , are they saved ?

Hi Brother S Spencer,

Thank you for the reply. That's interesting how two people can read the same verse and come up with different meanings.

So, I'm trying to find verses that say we're immediately saved the moment we decide to follow Jesus (before we're even judged).

Based on what I'm looking for you wrote the following:

" John 5:24. actually says exactly that along with a accumulation of scripture when discerning them properly."

But I read John 5:24 and it doesn't say anything about the timing of being saved. It does not say immediately or anything about "when" this happens and its not even implied as some assume. But if you keep reading at John 5:28-29 it adds a condition by saying after Jesus speaks and dead are raised that "they that have done good, unto the resurrection of life; and they that have done evil, unto the resurrection of damnation."

Some readers imply a sense of timing when reading something even though unstated. I do not believe the Bible implies timing if it is not specifically stated. I will share evidence why:

"But of the tree of the knowledge of good and evil, thou shalt not eat of it: for in the day that thou eatest thereof thou shalt surely die." Genesis 2:17 KJV

Adam and Eve ate the fruit and did not die immediately, but later. Their death in the form of mortality likely started when they ate this, but they did not physically die until many years later. Some claim they had a spiritual death, but that is not stated.

Another example is: "So God created man in his own image, in the image of God created he him; male and female created he them." Genesis 1:27 KJV

Some assume this means God already created females, but then in chapter 2 it says how Adam fell asleep and Eve was created. This is an example of how assuming timing when it is not stated is not correct. What this really is is a brief summary overview then chapter 2 goes into more detail about how it happened.

Likewise, John 5:24 doesn't say we're saved immediately.

Jesus does promise us eternal life.

1 John 2:25

"And this is the promise that he hath promised us, even eternal life."

But to receive this promise we must do what?

In addition to believing that Christ is our Savior, repenting from sin, receive baptism, and finally and most important, we must live for Christ, by rejecting this world, picking up our cross and following Jesus. Just tells us how he expects us to "live our lives" in order to receive the promise of eternal life!

Matthew 16:24

"Then said Jesus unto his disciples, If any man will come after me, let him deny himself, and take up his cross, and follow me."

25For whosoever will save his life shall lose it: and whosoever will lose his life for my sake shall find it. 26For what is a man profited, if he shall gain the whole world, and lose his own soul? or what shall a man give in exchange for his soul?

Most Christian's today (including me) want to believe they are already Saved, and no matter what - we already have OUR salvation. We want to live our worldy lives, accumulating more money, buying more material things, participating in all types worldly things to get ahead and make our lives easier. We seem to fill most of our days attending sports events, and all types of other worldly things, rather than pursuing Godly activities that Jesus tells us we must do.

The big question that we need to ask ourselves: Are we exchanging our "promise of Salvation" for worldly things"? And are we living our lives as commanded by Jesus?

Jesus never tells us we get a free ticket to Salvation by just believing, and we don't receive our salvation until we receive it at the great judgement day. So then, if we want to receive "the promise" don't we need pick up our cross and follow Jesus?

GB

Jema

How did Abraham, Issac, Rebecca, Jacob or Job & many more come to the personal experiential knowledge of God? Job 32:8 But there is a spirit in man: and the inspiration of the Almighty giveth them understanding. God Spirit is not limited in how He reveals Himself to mankind, dreams, visions, etc, the Scripture are full of them, but all by the operations & administration of His Spirit. God promise in Jeremiah 31:33 But this shall be the covenant that I will make with the house of Israel; After those days, saith the LORD, I will put my law in their inward parts, and write it in their hearts; and will be their God, and they shall be my people, Heb 8:10 quotes this, the wording is ( I ) will put My laws into their inward parts. He doeth the work, cause us to will & do of His good pleasure, & this is by His Spirit operations upon our hearts. Romans 2:14-15 For when the Gentiles, which have not the law, do by nature the things contained in the law, these, having not the law, are a law unto themselves:

15 Which shew the work of the law written in their hearts, their conscience also bearing witness, and their thoughts the mean while accusing or else excusing one another;)

its plainly written the Gentiles ,which have not the law, which was the gospel of that dispensation. God put His laws within their hearts, & taught them Himself by His Spirit. These things were written for our example, He does the same today!

I encourage you to reread the Scriptures, the honoring of them in there proper place, is truly the benefit & enjoyment of them.

He that has ears to hear, let him hear what the Spirit has to say:

Hi Adam,

Based on all of the scripture I have read, we do not receive "our salvation" or "our damnation" until Judgement Day.

John 5:28-29

"Marvel not at this: for the hour is coming, in the which all that are in the graves shall hear his voice," "And shall come forth; they that have done good, unto the resurrection of life; and they that have done evil, unto the resurrection of damnation."

2 Corinthians 5:10

"For we must all appear before the judgment seat of Christ; that every one may receive the things done in his body, according to that he hath done, whether it be good or bad."

GB

Salvation (part 3)

Ezekiel 36:24-32 For I will take you from among the heathen, and gather you out of all countries, and will bring you into your own land. Then will I sprinkle clean water upon you, and ye shall be clean: from all your filthiness, and from all your idols, will I cleanse you. A new heart also will I give you, and a new spirit will I put within you: and I will take away the stony heart out of your flesh, and I will give you an heart of flesh. And I will put my spirit within you, and cause you to walk in my statutes, and ye shall keep my judgments, and do them. And ye shall dwell in the land that I gave to your fathers; and ye shall be my people, and I will be your God. I will also save you from all your uncleannesses: and I will call for the corn, and will increase it, and lay no famine upon you. And I will multiply the fruit of the tree, and the increase of the field, that ye shall receive no more reproach of famine among the heathen. Then shall ye remember your own evil ways, and your doings that were not good, and shall lothe yourselves in your own sight for your iniquities and for your abominations.

Joel 2:12-14 Therefore also now, saith the LORD, turn ye even to me with all your heart, and with fasting, and with weeping, and with mourning: And rend your heart, and not your garments, and turn unto the LORD your God: for he is gracious and merciful, slow to anger, and of great kindness, and repenteth him of the evil. Who knoweth if he will return and repent, and leave a blessing behind him; even a meat offering and a drink offering unto the LORD your God?

Zephaniah 2:3 Seek ye the LORD, all ye meek of the earth, which have wrought his judgment; seek righteousness, seek meekness: it may be ye shall be hid in the day of the LORD'S anger.

Philippians 2:13 For it is God which worketh in you both to will and to do of his good pleasure.

Romans 10:17 So then faith cometh by hearing, and hearing by the word of God.

Salvation (part 2)

Galatians 2:16-21 Knowing that a man is not justified by the works of the law, but by the faith OF Jesus Christ, even we have believed in Jesus Christ, that we might be justified by the faith OF Christ, and not by the works of the law: for by the works of the law shall no flesh be justified. But if, while we seek to be justified BY Christ, we ourselves also are found sinners, is therefore Christ the minister of sin? God forbid. For if I build again the things which I destroyed, I make myself a transgressor. For I through the law am dead to the law, that I might live unto God. I am crucified with Christ: nevertheless I live; yet not I, but Christ liveth in me: and the life which I now live in the flesh I live by the faith OF the Son of God, who loved me, and gave himself for me. I do not frustrate the grace of God: for if righteousness come by the law, then Christ is dead in vain.

2 Corinthians 5:1 For we know that if our earthly house of this tabernacle were dissolved, we have a building of God, an house not made with hands, eternal in the heavens.

2 Corinthians 5:17 Therefore if any man be in Christ, he is a new creature: old things are passed away; behold, all things are become new.

1 John 3:2 Beloved, now are we the sons of God, and it doth not yet appear what we shall be: but we know that, when he shall appear, we shall be like him; for we shall see him as he is.

1 John 3:9 Whosoever is born of God doth not commit sin; for his seed remaineth in him: and he cannot sin, because he is born of God.

1 John 2:1-4 My little children, these things write I unto you, that ye sin not. And if any man sin, we have an advocate with the Father, Jesus Christ the righteous: And he is the propitiation for our sins: and not for ours only, but also for the sins of the whole world. And hereby we do know that we know him, if we keep his commandments. He that saith, I know him, and keepeth not his commandments, is a liar, and the truth is not in him.

Hiya Jema...Remember what Jesus said NO MAN CAN UNTO ME UNLESS THE FATHER THAT HAS SENT ME DRAW HIM.....The written word cannot draw us....Its only the living word Christ Jesus that can draw us.....As my words are spirit and life....Living words not the written word.....Its gotta be a personal relationship, he has to know us in order to sow his incorruptible seed in our hearts that initiates a birth of Christ in us.....Unless you receive the kingdom of God as a lil Child you will in no wise enter there in......They don't call him the bridegroom for nothin....He has a seed to sow in humanity.....Thats y Jeremiah 30:6 kjv....Jeremiah saw all men in travail and Child birth.....The written word is fine but its just answers to the lesser light.....But the living word is the greater light....Jesus said are there not 12 hrs in a day and 12 hrs in a night.....But if we walk in the written word only we are walking in the night.....Thats what happened to Israel they were sola scriptura....written words only.....But they stoned most all of the Prophets and rejected the Christ....Its only the living word the H.G a LIVING BEING that is the greater light....Thats y the New birth is so important....We have to birth that new creature which is the H.G. That Child of Promise....Nothin availeth any thing in Christ Jesus but a new Creature which is our new heart and new spirit...k lemme run....

Salvation

I'm reading many comments that would seem to be saying that OUR GOOD WORKS make some contribution to our salvation. That they can initiate our salvation. That they can maintain our salvation. That they are a requirement for our salvation. And it is true that we can find verses, that when isolated from the rest of the Bible, could lead to that understanding.

But when we look at EVERYTHING the Bible declares regarding the Nature of Salvation, we find that Salvation is 100% the WORK of God Himself. And if we are following a gospel where we are trusting in OUR GOOD WORKS to contribute to our salvation in any way, we are trusting in a false gospel that cannot save.

This is the snare that the church at Galatia fell into. Read Galatians, the entire chapter, very carefully. Read Romans. Read Ezekiel 36. Read the ENTIRE Bible. When we do this, we find that OUR FAITH, OUR REPENTANCE, OUR OBEDIENCE TO THE LAW OF GOD are the REDULT of our Salvation. They are NEVER THE CAUSE.

OUR obedience to any commandment in the Bible is a GOOD WORK. And God is very clear that our GOOD WORKS cannot and do not contribute to our Salvation in ANY WAY. They are the EVIDENCE of our Salvation. NOT THE CAUSE.

There also seems to be a misunderstanding on the part of some as to what it mean to be "saved". And that mankind has a BODY and a SOUL (or spirit essence). And that both in body and soul, apart from Salvation, we are SPIRITUALLY DEAD, in bondage to Sin and Satan, lust after sin, and subject to Eternal DEATH.

When God applies His Salvation to one of His Elect, God gives them a brand New Resurrected SOUL, in which they now have Eternal Life. This new soul still resides in a body that does not experience any change until the Last Day, when God completes their Salvation by giving them a new Resurrected Glorified Spiritual Body. So that we are now "saved" in our complete personality and will live and reign with Christ in New Heavens and New Earth throughout eternity.

Hey Adam Gbu my man.....Jesus spoke to the 2 thieves on the cross and Jesus had already said you are made clean by the WORDS i have spoken unto you....As my words are spirit and life....living words of life....And Jesus said this day you will be with me in Paradise....This very day you will be with me in Paradise....Maybe this can be of some help Adam....Alex

Hiya Jeme Gbu ....But Remember what Jesus said I am the light of the world...But the NIGHT comes when no man can work....Which was that great falling away....The abomination of desolation in all the Churches...Your house is left unto you desolate.....History proves the great abomination of desolation.....Which have been nothin but wars and rumors of wars.....6.5 million Jews died in hitlers death camps....Jesus was right, there is no Eternal life in the scriptures per se....Its only in the H.G. the gift of God.... Rev 12 :10.....I heard a loud voice from heaven saying NOW is come SALVATION and strength and the Kingdom of our God and the power of his Christ (the Child)...the H.G....Which is the Child of Promise....The contents of that book of life in the fathers right hand....God told Daniel in 12:9 Go thy way Daniel till the end comes when the book is opened....That Book that Jesus wrote with his own blood....That no man cd look into in heaven or earth....It was a sealed book....NO SALVATION OR KINGDOM TILL TH WOMAN GIVES BIRTH...Thats when the Child is born the Manchild that spirit of truth....The only one who can reprove the world of sin and righteousness and Judgement.. The Prince of this world is not judged till the manchild the spirit of truth is Born in us sinners...Remember what Jesus said Unless you receive the Kingdom of God as a lil Child you will in no wise enter there IN....Which is the real New Birth via the seeds of that book that he wrote with his own blood....The Child is the H.G. that Child of Promise....The wheat is a baby Christ simply b/c the sower of that good seed is Christ the Bridegroom....Thats y he has to know us....Faith is a spiritual pregnancy.....The Child (the H.G.) is the substance of things hoped for the evidence of things not seen....Whosoever receiveth one such child in MY NAME receiveth Me....Thats y he always refers to himself as the son of man....Mankind is gonna have a baby the H.G...But no Salvation till the Child comes. Gbu

Pray that God will bless me and keep me in his will

Adam, actually I thought I did answer your question. I did state, "a repentant sinner, seeking forgiveness & then being born again by God's Spirit, can be assured of salvation NOW & can never be lost." I believe that those verses show that one can be assured of salvation at the very moment of being born again. And that can only be by the Spirit's indwelling, assurance, & empowering. I do admit that not every born again believer can go back to a specific date when that occurred (e.g. a child or young person who has been brought up in a godly home & in time as the Gospel was presented to him, has confessed & turned to Jesus for salvation). It may not have been so noticeable at that time, as when an adult, especially repentant of much sin, turns from it to Jesus. I remember my date of re-birth as October 25, 1979, when the Holy Spirit descended upon me & with much torment of soul, I relented to His overpowering Work of conviction & provision of the only Way of Salvation.

So the verses as I shared with you, at least speak to me of that time in my life when the Godhead had dealings with me by His intrusion into my ungodly life; that at the time of weeping for my sins & moments later rejoicing with joy unspeakable, that God had forgiven me & had done a very specific work of indwelling; I believe the Apostle Paul called it being sealed with the Holy Spirit, the earnest of our inheritance until the redemption of the purchased possession. If a sinner cannot be saved immediately, then I wonder what his state might be, both spiritual & mental. If I had not such knowledge & experience, I could well flounder through life, doing my best to love, please, & serve my Lord, never knowing that the faith & resulting works I presented to Him could ever be good enough till Judgement Day. And so my question to any who believe that salvation is not guaranteed now is: how do you go through life hoping for salvation or even knowing that you could lose faith in the interim & be lost?

please remember me and my family today in your prayers

How can someone come unto him if they don't know he exists ? Why do you think that God has preserved His Word in a book for us if He didn't want us to read it ? What did the Ethiopian say to Phillip in the book of Acts ?

No Frankie , to do that would be impossible for any of us while we are in this body of flesh . Christ received the Spirit of God without measure , God dwelt in Christ fully . We do not have that privileged , we have the Comforter to guide and teach us but we are not 100per cent full of God's Holy Spirit . We are flesh and full of the lusts of it and we are selfish and cold hearted in comparison to Jesus who was totally unselfish and soft hearted . We may think we are nice and kind and sinless but we are a million miles from that sort of perfection , only our own pride and delusions would allow us to think otherwise .

If we don't have eternal life now we don't have nothing to apply our faith to , Hi S Spenser . Just a quick comment on your last sentence , I have faith that I will be ressurected when Christ returns , I believe that until then I shall be dead , knowing nothing . Abraham had faith that God would ressurect Isaac . Eternal life in this world is not something that I would want ! My faith is in Christ's sacrifice for my sin's , it's in God's love and mercy towards me , it's in God's righteousness , it's in God's promises about eternal life in His Kingdom , His Kingdom of peace and truth and righteousness , life , love , light , justice , mercy and joy , for all and forever , with Christ on earth for one thousand years . After that , when there has been one last human rebellion , there shall no flesh stand in His sight and God will be all in all . This is my faith . It was Abraham's and David's , God doesn't lie , He called Abraham His friend , my faith is the same as Abraham's . God bless you and everyone who is searching for God's Truth , I hope to rejoice with you all in His Kingdom .

Hi Adam.

John 5:24. actually says exactly that along with a accumulation of scripture when discerning them properly.

Here's John 5:24. "Verily, verily, I say unto you, He that heareth my word, and believeth on him that sent me, hath everlasting life, and shall not come into condemnation; BUT IS PASSED FROM DEATH UNTO LIFE".

Also see John 11:25-26.

There's physical death and there is spiritual death.

Everyone will die the physical death, ( Once.) Hebrews 9:27. Jesus took care of the Spitual death on the cross.

Those who haven't trusted Christ is ALREADY SPIRITUALLY DEAD! There is no sequence to this. You see it in Jude 1:12 "These are spots in your feasts of charity, when they feast with you, feeding themselves without fear: clouds they are without water, carried about of winds; trees whose fruit withereth, without fruit, TWICE DEAD, plucked up by the roots;

Revelation 20:13-14. And the sea gave up the dead which were in it; and death and hell delivered up the dead which were in them: and they were judged every man according to their works.

And death and hell were cast into the lake of fire. THIS IS THE SECOND DEATH.

This concept is spreaded broadly throughout scripture when interpreted right.

Romans 6:3-11.

Ephesians 2:1-9. And you HATH HE QUICKENED, who were dead in trespasses and sins: He gave life!

This is there present condition.

He didn't say "You whom he WILL quicken!"

If we don't have eternal life now, we don't have nothing to apply our faith to.

God bless.

Hi Chris, thanks for the verses.

Notice that you answered a different question though. You said assurance of salvation, but that is different from what people saying they were already saved (while still alive on earth).

Common example I hear people say: "Back when I got saved, I..."

I'm looking for a verse that actually says we're saved instantly as soon as we decide to follow Christ. So far I have not found a single verse saying that. With such a prominent belief, I would think there would be dozens of verses saying that but I have not seen a single verse. Instead there's several verses saying the opposite- indicating that salvation isn't received until the end when we are judged. That order also makes logical sense too.

If anyone can find even 1 verse that clearly says people are saved immediately (not just assurance of salvation) that would be appreciated.

Ronald.

Part 2.

This section I will go back to Daniel 2, Daniel 7 and Daniel 9.

In these chapters notice the consistency in the players involved. "The beast, little horn, Prince of the people that shall come being one of them. We will trace this character back to revelation.

Daniel 2:32-45 Daniel interprets King Nebuchadnezzars dream, this is the history of the reign of the Gentiles nations from man's viewpoint with the metal images mixed with clay. ( BABYLON, MADO-PERSIA, GREECE, ROME.)

In Daniel 7 we see the same material presented differently.

You see the same material as a series of beast. This is a vision from Gods viewpoint.

Revelation 13:1-4 connects the beast in Daniel 7 to the Antichrist.

In Daniel 2;35-44 we see Christ destroy 4th and final kingdom and its ruler and set up his own everlasting kingdom.

( Daniel 2:44.) And in the days of these kings shall the God of heaven set up a kingdom, which shall never be destroyed: and the kingdom shall not be left to other people, but it shall break in pieces and consume all these kingdoms, and it shall stand for ever.

( Also see Daniel 7:14.)

This haven't happened yet, and it didn't happen at the cross.

There's still not a kingdom or a King in Israel as described throughout the OT. And there is NO peace!

When studying these chapters, we see the little horn/beast rises out of these 10 horns/kingdoms.

Daniel 7:8-13 describes the end of this last and present empire.

Revelation 19:19 amplifies. that. Hasn't happened yet.

CONCERNING THE SACRIFICES.

There will be sacrifices in the kingdom. Isaiah 56:6-8. Zechariah 14:16. Jeremiah 33:15-18. Ezekiel 43:18. Ezekiel 46:24. Ezekiel 40:1-49.

Sacrifices never took away sins.

The sacrifices in the OT pointed forward to one who would come and take away sins and the sacrifices in the Kingdom will point backwards to the one who came and took away sins.

The Antichrist will present himself as Christ and the start of the expected Kingdom.

God bless.

Hello, thank you but those verses don't say anything about being saved immediately. I think its important to not add or subject from the Bible's meaning. There are lots of verses about being saved, but none I have come across that say you are saved immediately on earth. I have found verses indicating people are saved later, however. The following say in the "end" or "after" things. They don't say "now" or "immediately".

Matthew 24:13 "But he that shall endure unto the end, the same shall be saved."

Hebrews 10:36 "For ye have need of patience, that, after ye have done the will of God, ye might receive the promise."

Matthew 10:22 "And ye shall be hated of all men for my name's sake: but he that endureth to the end shall be saved."

"Therefore I endure all things for the elect's sakes, that they may also obtain the salvation which is in Christ Jesus with eternal glory." 2 Timothy 2:10 KJV

2 Corinthians 5:10

If there are no verses saying we are immediately saved before we die and are judged, why do people assume that? If not in the Bible where did this belief originate?

Yes Adam, these are a few important verses that I believe prove that a repentant sinner, seeking forgiveness & then being born again by God's Spirit, can be assured of salvation now & can never be lost. That the Holy Spirit takes up residence in the believer & perseveres with him/her to keep them saved & to warn & bring back those who fail in faith. Those who don't have assurance of salvation, probably are not familiar with the Scriptures, or have been taught that only perseverance & abiding by God's Commandments can they be saved, at least have any chance of getting approval at that final judgement day, or never been truly saved in the first place. Whereas, the one born again of God's Spirit will be given power to persevere & keep ALL of God's Commandments, & the avenue of repentance is there so that restitution & joy in a faithful God will be restored.

Ephesians 1:4,5 (God's choosing & predestining; His elect)

Ephesians 1:13,14 (Gift of the Holy Spirit; His Sealing & Guarantee till final redemption/reception of His child)

1 John 5:13 (we know that Eternal Life is our possession, not hoped for)

Romans 8:9,15,29,30,38,39 (nothing will separate us from God's Love - not from outside, nor from within, for we are His & will be led by His Spirit continually)

Hi Adam,

It is important to understand that when God promises salvation for us in New Testament Scripture, He immediately saves us when we have belief and trust in the work of Jesus Christ.

The text which I believe conveys this point is Acts 8:37, where it says: "And Philip said, If thou believest with all thine heart, thou mayest. And he answered and said, I believe that Jesus Christ is the Son of God."

If salvation is not produced through baptism or any human effort, then the Ethiopian eunuch was saved instantly before he was baptized. He was baptized into the Holy Spirit by Jesus Christ (read Matthew 3, Mark 1, John 1, and Acts 1) prior to physical baptism. Salvation is by faith alone. If someone dies in a car accident after accepting Jesus as their savior (coming to faith in His bloody death, burial, and resurrection) through a radio show, that person is in heaven at the moment of his death. Paul put it like this: " [Jesus] hath [present tense] raised us up together, and made us sit together in heavenly places in Christ Jesus ( Ephesians 2:6)."

I hope this helped!

Your thoughts are in line with Psalm 119:11Thy word have I hid in mine heart, that I might not sin against thee. Also, we are born again of incorruptible seed, the word of God. 1 Peter 1:23. Thanks!

Hi Ronald.

Part 1

Sorry so late of a response!

I will first speak on your 1st question as a springboard to get into this topic concerning the 69th and 70 week of Daniel 9:26-27.

Your quote.

"If I am correct, it is thought the 69th week ended when Jesus' ride into Jerusalem fulfilling Zech. 9:9. Dan. 9:26 says 69 weeks unto the Messiah, should we look over the 3.5 years from when Jesus was baptized and anointed with the Holy Spirit? Look at the multitude that met Him when He rode in, they knew who He was, He came for the lost sheep of Israel. End quote.

Ronald, Daniel outlines the sequence of events in the opposite order than what you present in the 69th week. We see the Messiah cut off. But if you look at Verse 26 Carefully " The People of the prince THAT SHALL COME shall destroy the sanctuary. This puts his arrival after the destruction of Jerusalem. This is saying this person who is coming, His people will destroy the sanctuary. His people destroyed the sanctuary but the Prince that shall come hasn't come yet.

This is saying, this person who is coming, His people will destroy the sanctuary. His people destroyed the sanctuary, but the This is saying this person who is coming, His people will destroy the sanctuary. His people destroyed the sanctuary but the Prince that shall come hasn't come yet.

PRINCE THAT SHALL COME hasn't come yet.

Let's examine this.

Beginning with Daniel 9:25. This is where the 69 weeks end. We know that by the beginning of vs 26, ( And after threescore and two weeks )

and here's why I place this at his entry into Jerusalem riding a donkey, In Luke 19:37-39 we see the multitude singing, referring to Psalms 118:26. parallel that with Luke 19:38. The Pharisees saw that as blasphemy!

Psalms 118:22-26 is the scope of scope of Daniel's prophecies and Nebuchadnezzar's dream.

BUT

They denied there king and here's Jesus answer to that in Matthew 23:37-38.

This is the only time Christ presented himself as king!

See part 2.

Hello Frankie J. Both S. Spencer & GiGi have shared very well to your question, so won't add to what was given. But I wanted to query your actual question: "Can we reach a state of perfection in our lifes on earth , where we actually sin no more?" I couldn't gather from your question whether you believed that you had reached that 'perfect state of sinlessness', or you were enquiring to how or when it can be attained while we remain on Earth.

Your question took me back to over two years ago, when an enquirer on this Site stated that since the time of his re-birth, he had never committed any sin; and he also referenced similar passages to what you've given as to the re-birth by the Holy Spirit Who ensures that no sin can ever be committed. So this discussion between us went on for a little while, until it occurred to me, 'how does this brother define sin; was it the breaking of the Ten Commandments & any other overt sin that may not be mentioned in the Bible?'

He stated, he just doesn't sin. I then gave an example of a sin that I had recently committed. While waiting at the traffic red light, I noticed a car driving through his red light, fortunately just avoiding an accident. My immediate thought & response was not good at all. My heart tightened, my thoughts were not the best, I felt anger & upset as to that driver's carelessness & a possible major accident. The Holy Spirit immediately arrested me & showed me my sin even though I may have justified it. I shared this account with that brother & asked if he ever felt something similar in his heart, giving outward expression. I never heard from him again. So, I'm always interested in any person who believes that they have or have reached a state of sinless perfection, whether their assessment is based on the sins the Bible reveals or on all those other sins hidden from view of others. To my understanding, I've yet to meet anyone that can truly say he is sinless.