All Discussion PAGE 414

Hello Gigi , thankyou for explaining that to me . I just read the Bible and I'm not familiar with the titles that people put on different aspects of it . I take the Bible as a whole thing and the Word of God , to me it's divided into Old and New Testaments , the individual books and that's about it for me , if anyone wants to talk about ' the end times ' I'm up for that :) but turning things into ologies and giving things unnecessarily sesquipedalian titles is not really my style :):):) thanks any way .

This is a awesome bible lesson

Good Morning Jema,

Eschatology is the term used fpr study of the end times or the consummation of all things at Christ's return. I think it is good to know what these "ology" terms mean so that one can better understand what others are presenting on this forum.

Amen, Chris

You have said it well. We are to attempt to correct false teaching and reprove those who promulgate it, even here.

Lord Jesus you know the cries of our hearts and the petitions we have made even here. I continue to ask. Please grant soon breakthrough. I ask for strong protection, deliverance, healing, salvation (those not saved), guidance and all the specific situations and circumstances previously mentioned. Please grant help to all in need on here and everywhere, esp. salvation. Thank you. In your holy name I pray. Amen.

Please for my husband for a successful day at work. Thank you for your prayers.

Good morning Chris,

You mention "stagnation" in the churches and congregations of our day. I would say it is far more serious that "stagnation".

If you go into virtually any church to day ant listen to what is being taught, how much different will that be than what you would have found in that same church or denomination 50 or 75 years ago? How much of the World would you see in that church regarding the acceptance of the mores of the World? When was the last time you heard a sermon from the Book of Jeremiah if ever? When was the last time you heard a sermon that focused on the Judgment and Wrath of God for sin?

What is the Gospel being preached in the churches? Is it a Gospel of Grace alone, where God does 100% of the "work" in saving anyone? Or is it a gospel of Grace plus "works", where Christ has done His part and now its up to us to do our part? Is there any sense at all that not every church member that may appear to be saved may in fact not have become saved and there should be a message of warning to "make our calling and election sure"? Has the gospel in the churches not become more of a social gospel or a political gospel, rather than the True Gospel that we are in terrible trouble with God and desperately need a savior? How many people in the church actually know what they need to be "saved from"?

When we take an honest look at any church today it is not "stagnation" that we see. Is it not where the Bible has lost its Absolute Authority and the authority has become the creeds and confessions developed hundreds of years ago, or worse the ideas of man and a gospel that we like and not the TRUE Gospel of the Bible? Why do you think there are so many different understandings of so many important doctrines in the various churches when that is only ONE TRUTH?

1 Peter 4:17

Mr. Spencer,

I agree that we are to proclaim truth in the face of error. But Jema has made some good points.

God commands us to love our enemies. To pray for them. It is not the job of the True Believer to pass judgement on any individual. If we want to find sin we need only look in the mirror.

It is our job to proclaim the True Gospel. And to do it with a humble spirit. Always recognizing that it is only God's Mercy and His good pleasure that we have come to any truth, if indeed we have.

Sorry but I never supported anyone in regards to escatology , I have no clue what escatology is ! And I have no desire to know , all I know and all I want to know is the Bible , I don't do ologies . Please show me how and where I supported anyone about it . Please also make sure that you only message me in the same way that you would speak to me face to face , perhaps if you did that I would not find your attitude so offensive , and yes , you are correct , we will have to agree to disagree . I hate myself for allowing you to slightly annoy me to the extent that I have to message you in this way , well done you .

Indeed brother S. Spencer, where sin & unrighteousness was evident, the Lord never failed to call them out. Not to say, that we can take the same liberty on every matter, seeing that our understanding or motives may never meet that pure standard of the Lord in everything. But I believe that the Lord expects us to stand for the Truth & to expose falsehood where there is a clear departure from the Word. A part of the reason for the general stagnation of the Church today, is because of their feebleness & fear to be stern, lest they suffer in some way for their boldness & forthrightness. It's much easier to remain quiet & 'let the Lord take care of the matter' than for the Christian to stand for Truth & the pure Word of God.

Matthew chapter 23 is one of those great examples of the Lord's Anger vented against the religious leaders - He did not spare them, fiercely looking upon them, saying "Ye serpents, ye generation of vipers, how can ye escape the damnation of hell?" ( Matthew 23:33). This wasn't a loving friendly talk with them. And then His Love & yearning Heart poured out in verse 37, "O Jerusalem, Jerusalem, thou that killest the prophets, and stonest them which are sent unto thee, how often would I have gathered thy children together, even as a hen gathereth her chickens under her wings, and ye would not!" Therefore, may our words & emotions behind them be Spirit-charged & not the voice of the flesh. And we need to remember that there may be many others who come to these pages to read, consider & digest the messages - are we not responsible before the Lord to expose error or at the very least, to present the Truth so that the reader may discern? Thank you for your efforts & persistence brother, as I note also with some others here. Blessings.

Sorry Jema but the Lord says follow me and he was not passive and often rebuked when necessary.

I don't see anywhere in scripture as you say it.

Jesus and his disciples were very direct and didn't turn to the left or right.

In Revelation he warns us of this spiritual fornication and Lukewarmness.

You mentioned Love.

Jesus displays his love for the sheep in John 10. He gives us an example of one who don't love the sheep in John 10:12-13.

These warnings and protection from the wolf is an act of love for the sheep.

Is it considered aggressive when you put so much focus on me and try to muffle me from speaking whar is true concerning this matter and taking little indirect shots on other matters?

Yes I expose their agenda when I feel someone new to the site may need a little more info to understand the direction this person is headed.

It puzzles me when you continue to step in every time I speak on this, but this group I'm referring to never denies the accusations.

Where were you when I was under attack a few months ago for not wanting to engage in a ongoing eschatology thread?

You supported it.

Sorry but we will have to disagree on this.

God bless.

please remember me and my family in your prayers today

I'm just not comfortable in aggressive environments . Passive and veiled aggression are still aggression and I don't like being around either . When Jesus and the Apostles challenged people's beliefs they managed to do it in a totally loving way , we are supposed to be trying very hard to be like them , that means love , real love , not feigned , not just loving in speech but in true feeling for each other . When we speak to anyone but especially to a fellow believer , we must speak through the heart of Christ , not through our own sinful hearts . It's not always easy and I definately fail but I never stop trying with any and everyone and believe me I am sorely tried every day , as I'm sure most of us are . Aggression has no place in a Christian heart , even if our reason behind our aggression is , in our own eyes , justified . We must never give up trying to be as much like our Redeemer as possible and just because we fail that doesn't mean we can't start afresh every day . God's mercies are fresh every day so should our attitude be . The things that we did or said wrong yesterday are gone and forgotten , so today we wake up with a clean heart , let's see how far through the day we can get before we recognise our own sinful behaviour . We need to all remember that God hears our every word and , perhaps more importantly He knows all of our motivations for our words . Are we motivated by love ? Let's hope that we , me included , are always motivated by love and that that love is expressed in our words and behaviour towards others . God is always watching and listening .

Hi Landry. Lucifer in Hebrew is 'helel'. Howl in Hebrew is 'yalal'. Not the same word.

As for Isaiah 14 referring to Christ giving up His Glory: if Jesus has 'fallen from Heaven...is to be cut to the ground, Who weakened the nations....and that He would be brought down to hell, to the sides of the pit', then I'm unsure how you developed this interpretation. What, in these verses, has inspired you to believe that these verses speak of Jesus & His incarnation, especially when this dialogue in Isaiah 14 was spoken against the King of Babylon & the evil spirit within him?

Hi Eric. I'm unsure whether you're enquiring about the 'snatching away' of true believers (otherwise referred to as the Rapture), or to the time of the Great Tribulation. I think it might be the former, to which there are three broad positions to the Rapture: pre, mid, & post Tribulation. That is, when Jesus returns for His Church, will it happen before the Great Tribulation (of seven years), in the middle of it, or at the end of the seven years? Those who hold to a specific position will have their Scriptures to support their belief. This is just a brief answer to you, as I can't ascertain the full nature of your question or what your understanding of this is.

I think, MawMaw Lady, that those specific guideline to 'offer no personal opinions', are to direct people within that study group to ensure that their views are presented with Scriptural backing. Now, some may do so yet misunderstand or misuse the Scriptures, thereby bringing in erroneous beliefs. The study leader would be trying to ensure that there isn't just a barrage of various thoughts & opinions that may be founded on personal beliefs or wishes; but that if some aspect of theology or doctrine is being considered, then to be faithful in studying it, one must, as fully as one can, refer to all the associated Scriptures that lend support to it. So one's freedom to give his/her opinion is always there, but is that opinion truthful, faithful & useful to God's Word and to those in the study group? This is why the study leader really needs to be well grounded in God's Word as also being a competent facilitator to keep the study in focus & orderly.

Even here on these pages, if you read the discussions presented, you will easily find that there are comments made that are at variance to what you believe, or even what the Bible teaches. Since we're not a study group, the Site's moderators no doubt allow us much latitude on biblical matters, yet nevertheless, understanding Truth & upholding it are what matters, when often one's opinions can actually contradict Truth. And yes, when a part of a study isn't clear to someone, then there should be occasions where questions can be asked for clarification.

NUMBERS CHAPTER 16

Pt. 4

Then the LORD told Moses to tell Eleazer, son of Aaron, to collect all of the censors that the 250 had used and forge them into plates to cover the altar, for since they were offered before the LORD, they were hallowed. These were to serve as a memorial to the people to remind them that no one but the seed of Aaron is to come near to offer incense to Him, exhorting them to not be like Korah and his company.

But the next day, the people began again to murmur against Moses and Aaron. (It seems they are stubborn and unteachable). They said that Moses and Aaron had killed the people of the LORD. They had not honor for the LORD, but were interested more in self-preservation. Once again the glory of the LORD appeared at the tabernacle and the LORD said to Moses and Aaron to get away from these people so He can consume them. They provoked the LORD again without fear. God sent a plague among the people and many were dying. Moses told Aaron to go and take a censor and stand in the middle of the people burning incense in the censor as an atonement for the people. He stood between those who had died and those who were alive and the plague was stayed at that point where Aaron stood. Over 14,000 people died of the plague that day because of the influence of Korah and the rebelliousness of those who questioned and murmured against Moses and Aaron.

How stiff-necked these people were. Before their very eyes they experienced God's judgment and they still were set against Him. God knows the hearts of all and He was right to decide that those people will die in the wilderness for their rebelliousness and unbelief in Him. The people were not concerned about provoking God with their sin, perhaps because they knew they were going to die in the wilderness, as God had said. They had a sense of hopelessness that caused them to not care about their future. They were bound up with sin and refused all the mercy and grace offered to them.

NUMBERS CHAPTER 16

Pt. 3

So, Moses set the stage for the "proving". The following day all of those rebelling with Korah were to bring censors with fire to burn incense before the LORD along with Aaron. And so they did the next day. Korah also called all of the congregation to meet with them to oppose Aaron and Moses at the door of the tabernacle

When everyone was assembled, the glory of the LORD appeared to all the congregation. He spoke to Moses and Aaron telling them to separate themselves from the congregation because He wished to consume them (destroy). But, again, Moses and Aaron fell on their faces before the LORD and interceded for the people. So the LORD told them to tell the congregation to go to the tents of Korah, Dathan and Abiram. So Moses, Aaron, and the 70 elders went to the tents of Dathan and Abiram. Then they spoke to the congregation, telling them to depart from the tents of these wicked men, touch nothing of theirs, lest you be consumed by their sins.

So the people backed off from the tents of Dathan and Abiram, but surrounded the tents. Dathan and Abiram came out of their tents with their wives, sons, and children. Moses confronts them saying, "Hereby ye shall know that the LORD hath sent me tp do all of these works; for I have not done them of mine own mind." He goes on to say that if these men die in a way common to men, then they will know that the LORD had not appointed Moses. But if the LORD does something new by opening up the earth and swallowing them (a prophecy) then the people will know that these men have provoked God and are against God's choice of Moses and Aaron.

Just as he ended speaking this, the ground opened up around Dathan and Abiram and their families and all were engulfed by the hole and fell in alive and perished. All of the congregation fled from this place fearing that if they stayed they may be swallowed up, too. Then God sent out a fire from Himself and consumed the 250 men who offered incense.

cont. to pt. 4

NUMBERS CHAPTER 16

Pt. 2

Moses did not argue with them, rather, he simply said that the LORD will reveal the ones He has appointed over the congregation.

Then he prophetically explained the test that will show God's choice. Each of the 250 leaders along with Korah and his buddies were to take golden censors used to burn incense to the LORD and God will show who is the ones selected to be holy, anointed, and appointed to lead.

Then Moses chastises Korah the Levite, turning Korah's words back upon him (ye take too much upon you, ye son of Levi) and goes on to say that Korah should not deem his service in the tabernacle to be a small matter by God's choice of the Levites. Korah was not satisfied with the role chosen for him in the service to the LORD and in ministry to the people, he desired to be a priest, which he was not a son of Aaron to be so. He was questioning how God appointed priests. He coveted what was not his to have. Then Moses tells them that he and his company are gathered against the LORD and disrespect Aaron by murmuring against him. Moses, as a good leader, pointed out their sinfulness, because it was seriously wicked.



Next, Moses calls up Dathan and Abiram to present themselves before him. They refused to come to Moses. They charged that Moses had brought them out of a land of milk and honey (Egypt) to kill them min the wilderness and Moses has made himself prince over them. How they deflect away from their own sin of unbelief that sealed their judgment to die in the wilderness and not enter into the land of promise. They blame Moses instead of repenting and letting their hearts be transformed by God.

Moses was very grieved and spoke to the LORD asking Him to not accept any offering from these leaders. Moses speaks that he has not done anything to harm these men, and that was true. He had stood in the gap multiple times for the people interceding for them with the LORD. He refused to walk away from the calling God had placed upon him. ..cont.

NUMBERS CHAPTER 16

In this chapter we read of the rebellion fostered by Korah (a Levite) and a few other associates, Dathan, Abiram, and On (from the tribe of Reuben). These men were questioning among themselves the legitimacy of Moses and Aaron as leaders of the nation. They stirred up dissent among the leaders among the tribes (250 men) to question why Aaron was the only one who could burn incense to the LORD as the High Priest. They spoke to Aaron and Moses, saying they take too much upon themselves as leaders and, since ALL of the people of Israel's congregation were holy and the Lord is amongst them, why do you (Moses and Aaron) lift themselves above all the others.

Interesting, none of these men were present when God called Moses from the burning bush or when God sent Aaron to Moses and spoke to both of them, appointing them both as leaders of the people of Israel, giving them the authority and power to lead the people out of the bondage of Egypt, go against the Pharaoh, and be the go-between between the LORD and the people.

Yet, these rebels thought that they knew better that Moses and Aaron how to run things. They did not esteem the wisdom of the LORD in choosing Moses and Aaron. These rebels were puffed up with pride and thought more of themselves than they ought to have. Moses was the meekest among men. They were unduly arrogant. They were willing to contend with Moses and Aaron, which was , in essence, contending with the LORD.

Moses' response to this incident was to fall on his face before them. He was a humble servant. He was also a prophet. In this instance he spoke to Korah and the others with him saying, "Even tomorrow the LORD will shew who are His; and who is holy;

and will cause him (the one set apart for holy service) to come near unto Him (the LORD); even him whom He hath chosen will He cause to come near to Him." Instead of arguing with the rebels or exerting any authority over them, cont. to pt. 2

Aug. 1st 2004, God lead me to His son Jesus, with a beam of light. I was sitting in a jail cell, again, for drugs, again, but this time I had messed up good, I was in the subfloor of rock bottom's basement. I had cars, homes, boats, motorcycles, lovely wife great job...& lost it all, because of my addiction to drugs. I had been to church on & off as a kid, but mostly off. I was arrested for drugs, while on probation for drugs. After a few months being in county jail one evening a little old Independant Baptist Pastor came to preach at the county jail, he pointed out truths from the Word of God like no one I had ever seen & heard preach, but when it came time to come forward, I didn't. Later that night when the lights went out, I was still reading the Bible & I got bummed, but I noticed a small beam of light that came through a little window in the door in the cell pod I was in that I used to keep reading & not long after in that dark night I trusted Jesus Christ as my savior & I haven't been the same since. I serve Christ in my church in my home, even online, like right now, I have been & will continue to live drug free until I pass away. I am blessed with a great church home & church family as well as a home where I care for my elderly mother & other family, there's a small & honest income. Five of my family members, that have or still do live in my home, including my son, my sister & her 9 yr old grandson. They all got saved because they could see that I am a changed person that I'm not the same man that I use to be & that I have true joy in my life from my relationship with Jesus Christ & they wanted that too. God has & continues to provide me with the right people & things & the places I & my family need to be to serve him for just like Joshua, me & my house, we will serve the LORD. THANK YOU JESUS!

Amen David.

The bible teaches Satan has his ministers amongst us along with other demonic forces and scripture tells us how to discover them and to mark them.

However some blends in very well!

No where in scripture does it says defend them.

One thing they can't do is to be caused to Love the Brothern!

God night and God bless.

HI Jema.

Yes we have freedom of speech as the world gives.

What is important to spiritual growth is truth!

That's what we earnestly seek for.

If one decide to minister on this site he has the freedom to do so.

If one decide not to minister he has the freedom to do so.

If one decide to treat this community as a round table he has that freedom and if one takes the word of God to be handed serious he had that freedom.

Freedom goes on and if it's freedom you want, give it and expect it from everyone including me.

I'm not giving my opinion, I'm repeating what they have literally said out their own mouth!

If the accusation is false that's one thing but if it's true and is as easy as asking them, feel freely to do so.

In other words ask them directly and they should tell you directly that which they have said "We will be Gods and the Gospel which we preach is man made.

If it don't bother you when they say it don't let it bother you when I repeat it.

This is a King James site and what's written in it tells us to mark such a person.

Now I beseech you, brethren, mark them which cause divisions and offences contrary to the doctrine which ye have learned; and avoid them. Romans 16:17.

Galatians 1:8-9.

Titus 3:10.

2 John 1:10-11.

Sometimes it's easier to know what the bible says than to do what it says.

God bless.

I am requesting strength to eat a diet that meets the needs of my illiness. I want to be healed and made whole from eating the wrong food that increase my risk if organ failure from diabetes. Also, I am praying against the thought of "what if I get dementia"

I am 62 headed for retirement and I don't want to get into retirement and be sick. I have tried everything, every diet, prayer. I blame myself a lot. This is not the life for me. Jesus died so I can be free from my ownself. I am requesting/asking God to grant me freedom from doing things(eating) foods that are not good for me.

Amen

NUMBERS CHAPTER 15

Pt. 4

It is certainly permissible to choose ways to help us remember God's Word. But we need to always "Keep it Fresh" so that such actions (traditions/habits) retain their purposed outcome. Also, we cannot let such actions replace our relationship with the LORD and lead to taking a cavalier approach to God because we are depending on our actions to make us holy rather than the Holy Spirit.

Something things to think about in this chapter. I welcome the additions of others to my thoughts.

NUMBERS CHAPTER 15

Pt. 3

Were the people truly humbled after God's judgment? It seems that they were swift to bring this man to judgment who broke the Sabbath law. Which was worse? grumbling against God and disbelieving Him to deliver them into the land -or- collecting sticks on the Sabbath to keep warm or give light to their campsite.

At least they waited until God spoke to Moses to carry out the requirement of the law concerning this breach. Maybe Moses told them to wait on the LORD. I wonder if they thought about their own rebelliousness and unbelief towards the LORD with every stone they threw at this man. They were equally as guilty as he was. They all had experienced the miraculous ways God delivered them from enemies and provided for their physical needs. They all had heard Moses announce the Law to them and they all agreed to keep the Law as their part of the covenant with the LORD. They all knew that they were law-breakers, just like this man.

It seems the LORD exacted this sentence on this man because he deserved it, but also to show the people how serious and offensive their own sin truly was to God who delivered them from their enemies and bondage. Especially when God said that the sinner's soul will be cut off (assumed from God) and that his sin remains upon him. This goes beyond not entering into the land, dying in the wilderness. It speaks to the life to come for those who remain in unbelief.

The chapter ends with God instructing the people to put fringes upon the hems of their garments with blue ribbon. This was for them to always be reminded of the their responsibility to keep the commandments God gave them as part of the covenant made at Sinai. I wonder how long it took for this practice to become so ordinary that it no longer was a reminder as God had requested of them. How long did it take for Israelites to abandon having fringed garments altogether.

Such acts that are meant to remind us of God's Word can become mundane or rote to us.

NUMBERS CHAPTER 15

Pt. 2

God instructs Moses concerning sins committed out of ignorance and those committed out of presumption.

God requires certain sacrifices be made for sins committed in ignorance and they will be forgiven.

But sins of presumption are not treated so. The one who presumes to be free to break the commands of God and not suffer punishment because they are "chosen" by God will be reproaching God (despising Him or His commandments). the presumption spoken here speaks to an attitude of arrogance, rebellion, audacity, a willful going against the commands of God with impunity, thinking that God will surely not exact the judgment He said would come the one who willfully transgresses His commands.

One who claims to follow God who acts presumptuously toward Him and His laws have placed themselves above God in determining what one is allowed to do. The chapter says that there is no ordinance (sacrifice or offering) that will bring forgiveness for this type of sinning. The one who acts this way will be cut off from among God's people. His soul shall be cut off and his iniquity shall remain upon him.

And example of such actions is given in verses 32-36 when an Israelites gathers sticks on the Sabbath to make a fire. He knew the law concerning the Sabbath-all preparations were to be made the day before so that no one would work on the Sabbath. He failed to prepare for the needs of the fire (kind of like the foolish virgins). Also, rather than going without a fire for a day/night, he willfully and knowingly broke the Sabbath law and collected sticks, which was considered working on the Sabbath.

At first, the people did not know what to do (vs. 34). Then God spoke to Moses about this man. He was to be stoned to death by the people outside the camp.

After all that grumbling and rebellion prior to this event, it seems that the chastisement of the LORD sank in a little at this time. They knew that they would not enter the promised land because of their sin.

NUMBERS CHAPTER 15

This chapter is God describing to Moses how the Israelites and the foreigners among them are to sacrifice to Him once they are in the promised land.

First off, God said that the people He delivered from Egypt would take possession of the land He promised to bring them into. God's words do not fail. The people hearing this from Moses would be glad to know that even though they themselves will not enter the land due to their grumbling and rebellion against the LORD (in Ch. 13 and 14), their children under 20 years of age would enter and live in the land of Canaan.

In Hebrews 11 we are told of all the people of faith who believed God but never received the promise, yet they believed that God would fulfill all He promised ( Heb. 11:13-16, 39-40) God had something better for Abraham, Isaac, Jacob, Moses, and those who suffered for their faith than the land of Canaan. Verse 40 says: "God having provided some better thing for us (who believe in Jesus), that they without us should not be made perfect." These Old Testament saints were not set on living in the physical land promised as much as they looked forward to entering and abiding forever in the heavenly city prepared by our Lord, the dwelling place of those who believe God and His promises are true and worthy of receiving in the life to come.

We, too, should not hold on to earthly blessings as if they are all we need in life. We need this heavenly dwelling place as much as all who have gone before us. We need the eternal inheritance we receive in Christ. We need to live where Jesus lives in the next life.

The chapter goes on to describe the various sacrifices and offerings for both the Israelites and Gentiles who enter and are born in the land promised. God made it clear that these ordinances are to be the same for both Israelites and Gentiles living among them. In verse 15, the LORD says that "as ye are, so shall the stranger be before the LORD." Both are the same before God.

Man teaches Isaiah 14 is talking about Satan.

Is it talking about Satan; or, is it talking about Christ giving up his GLORY and coming as sinful flesh to redeem creation?

Is the Hebrew word in Isaiah 14:12 translated correctly?

That Hebrew word translated Lucifer in Isaiah 14:12 is found about 60 times in the Old Testament, it is translated to the word HOWL every time except Isaiah 14:12.

The word says Satan was a LIAR and a MURDERER from the BEGINNING; therefore he was never a PERFECT archangel at the beginning.

God bless you

The word of God CANNOT contradict itself.

Hello Jema,

I'm posting this in a separate message because as I indicated I don't want to interrupt the focus of the thread regarding Numbers. And hopefully this will post because I'm not providing any kind of a link.

You might want to check out a ministry called SearchingHisWord or Alameda Bible Fellowship on the web and/or Youtube. They are not associated with any church or denomination and you will find very Biblical messages and Bible studies built around the principals of Bible interpretation that God lays down in His word. They hold faithfully to the understanding that the Bible alone and in its entirety is the only Word of God.

Continued blessings to you and everyone as we search the scriptures.