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This chapter is a continuation of what occurred in chapter 13.
It begins with the people mourning and weeping all night long after hearing the report of the 10 leaders who went into the land as spies and returned with a faithless negative report. They were downhearted because they had come to the edge of the land promised and feared what lay ahead of them in this land-giants/fortified cities/strong armies. They disbelieved God's power and willingness to fight for them in the battles. On top of this faithlessness, they began to murmur AGAIN against Moses and Aaron. They grumbled about being brought all this way only to die at the hands of the inhabitants of the land ahead of them. They remarked that it would be better for them to go back to Egypt or for God to have them die in the wilderness instead of going into the land to possess it only to be slaughtered. They spoke to one another about choosing a new leader to take them back to Egypt.
These adult Israelites could not trust God, even after all of the miraculous ways He delivered them already and the miraculous ways He provided for them-manna and quail and water. They could not look at what God had done for them and believe that He would continue to deliver them from their enemies. But it seems that in their case, they themselves were their own worst enemy. Instead of believing in God's power and love like Joshua, Caleb, Moses and Aaron did, they murmured so much that they convinced most of their fellow Israelites to disbelieve and grumble, too. They, as a whole, were convinced that Moses and Aaron were not the best leaders for them anymore, even though God had chosen these two men to be their leaders. Their distrust, unbelief, and badmouthing of God's chosen leaders fomented widespread rebellion throughout the camp (of several million).
Moses and Aaron prostrated themselves before the people and entreated them to repent and seek God's mercy. Caleb and Joshua rent their clothes. ...cont.
May you be showered with provision from our Heavenly Father today and everyday.
We thank God in advance for our financial prosperity. Lord, we know that everything that comes from You is good, so We know that by placing our finances in Your hands, You will come through for us and We will become financially stable. We know you can open a way where there seems to be no way. We pray for a financial breakthrough in our lives right now so we could recover our outstanding investing funds!
In Jesus name
Sam and Christine
I have quoted a few selected verses from Hebrews 11 below.
Hebrews 11:8 By faith Abraham, when he was called to go out into a place which he should after receive for an inheritance, obeyed; and he went out, not knowing whither he went.
Hebrews 11:9 By faith he sojourned in the land of promise, as in a strange country, dwelling in tabernacles with Isaac and Jacob, the heirs with him of the same promise:
Hebrews 11:10 For he looked for a city which hath foundations, whose builder and maker is God.
Hebrews 11:13 These all died in faith, not having received the promises, but having seen them afar off, and were persuaded of them, and embraced them, and confessed that they were strangers and pilgrims on the earth.
Hebrews 11:16 But now they desire a better country, that is, an heavenly: wherefore God is not ashamed to be called their God: for he hath prepared for them a city.
Hebrews 11:38 (Of whom the world was not worthy:) they wandered in deserts, and in mountains, and in dens and caves of the earth.
So what were these faithful men of God looking for? What was the LAND they were looking for? What was the PROMISE spoken of in these verses?
Was it some geographical land on this sin cursed earth where they were STRANGERS and PILGRIMS?
Or was it a HEAVENLY country, a HEAVENLY city, whose builder and maker is God?
Hebrews 11:39 And these all, having obtained a good report through faith, received not the promise:
Hebrews 11:40 God having provided some better thing for us, that they without us should not be made perfect.
Hebrews 11 is talking about the INHERITANCE that awaits all True Believers that God has and will save throughout time. That is the New Heavens and New Earth where all True Believers will live and reign with Christ ETERNALLY. That God will create from the ashes of this sin-cursed earth.
Not some future Kingdom on this sin-cursed earth with Christ ruling from Jerusalem.
Just to clarify, my last statement was referring to the generation of Israelites that had been delivered from Egypt. These people did not enter into the land because of their unbelief. They "blew it". However, their unbelief did not nullify God's promise to Abraham.
The Israelites who were younger than 20 at the time and who wandered in the wilderness with their unbelieving parents for 40 more years did enter the land promised and possessed in under the leadership of Joshua and Caleb.
The unbelief of the Israelites at the time of the sending out of the 12 spies did not thwart God's plan for the people of Abraham. He is able to fulfill His will in the lives of all people because He is sovereign over all. He knows all things past present and future. He works all things out according to His purpose.
Thanks for the provided summary on Israels failure to entering into the promise land.
I would like to share something based on your last statement.
( It is a very sad time for the people God had delivered from bondage. Though they were chosen as a people to receive great promises and benefits from being God's covenant people. They blew it royally at the time they were closest to entering in.)
When we look at Genesis 15:7-18 we learn that God covenant was unconditional, In fact Verse 18 shows us that God has already gave them the land.
vs 18) "In the same day the LORD made a covenant with Abram, saying, UNTO THY SEED HAVE I GIVEN THIS LAND, from the river of Egypt unto the great river, the river Euphrates:
They had to possess it by faith!
That's the lesson and example for all the world to see!
Also what's important to note is God's word is at stake. Moses makes mention of that later in scripture.
Israel couldn't enter in because of unbelief.
Hebrews ch's 3 and 4 hammers away at this.
But notice Hebrews 4:7-9. Again, he limiteth a certain day, saying in David, To day, after so long a time; as it is said, To day if ye will hear his voice, harden not your hearts.
For if Jesus had given them rest, then would he not afterward have spoken of another day.
There remaineth therefore a rest to the people of God.
God bless
Continued...
Caleb believed God and that God would fulfill what He promised to the nation of Israel. Joshua, also, believed God as Caleb did. These two men had faith that could "move mountains". They were faithful servants to God and trustworthy leaders for Moses to depend on.
Even so, the nation decided to not go and take the land. They wavered in faith in YHWH to deliver them from the giants and the well fortified cities and warriors of the cities. They looked at the situation through the lens of practical analysis, determining that their nation was not strong enough to conquer and possess the land.
They failed to believe that the land would be given to them by supernatural means by the hand of YHWH and the strength that He would have given the people to destroy the peoples of the land as they went in to possess it. They counted the cost and calculated that they were no match for the giants and armies in the land. But God was desiring to show them His amazing power and favor by bringing down these giants and armies when the men of Israel moved forward in the might and protection of the Mighty One of Israel.
How disappointed Moses must have been at the failure of the spies to believe God for victory over the peoples of the land promised to them. But Caleb and Joshua proved that they were the ones who could lead this people, not the other 10 chiefs.
This decision of the people based on the negative report was very evil and costly to them. They forfeited their opportunity to enter the land but instead ended up dying in the wilderness. (everyone from the age of 20 and older never entered the promised land. Only Caleb and Joshua did so of the generation that left Egypt that was 20 years old or more.
It is a very sad time for the people God had delivered from bondage. Though they were chosen as a people to receive great promises and benefits from being God's covenant people. They blew it royally at the time they were closest to entering in.
In this chapter, Moses sends twelve men to be spies to check out the land promised to this nation. Each man was a leader/chief of their tribe, one who was respected and determined to be trustworthy.
These men went up into the land. At Hebron they saw the three sons of Anak who were giants in stature and strength. The spies noted that the cities were well fortified and able to defend against an attack.
They also collected food samples to bring back to the camp to show the fruitfulness of the land (as God had promised it to be). They stayed in the land for forty days, getting much information to bring back to the people in the camp.
The Israelites were camped just south of the border of Canaan. They were still in the wilderness area. They could not see the promised land from where they were camped. Perhaps there was a range of hills to block their view.
The men returned to camp and gave a mixed report to the people saying that the land was indeed fruitful and desirable for farming and raising livestock and for dwelling. But 10 of the men spoke negatively about the strength and stature of some of the inhabitants. They spoke words of doubt concerning their ability to take the land since God was with them and had delivered them miraculously since leaving Egypt.
The people had just celebrated a year of travel in the wilderness and camping at Mt. Sinai. Now they were as close as they could get to stepping into the land promised. But the report of the giants in the land and the fortifications of the cities caused the people to decide not to enter the land. They believed the report of men instead of the Word of God that promised them this land. The people were wishy washy about their trust and commitment to YHWH. This event tested their faith and they failed this test.
Caleb spoke up telling the people that they would be able to take the land from the inhabitants because God had promised the land to them.
You've spoken well on this topic.
This group you are engaging with have been on this site for atleast 3 years.
There seems to be something very sinister about some of the views we come across in our everyday walk!
Just to encourage you, we all don't hold those views!
Most of us believe in a Heaven and Hell as a place and destination for the lost and the saved.
Christ death on the Cross was a sacrifice!
God offering his Son was a display of love!
"A way of escape for something we all deserve" The wages of sin is death. ( Eternal separation from God )
This group renders the work on the cross and God's eternal/salvation plan foolish if there's no consequences for rejecting Christ atonement.
Be careful not to provide them a platform.
God bless.
That take you have seems familiar.
Here's a few things in your post that puzzles me.
Your Quote;
Revelation 21:1
And I saw a new heaven, and a new earth: for the first heaven and the first earth (old covenant)
Are you saying the first heaven and first earth is the old covenant? If so how do you define covenant?
Continuing-
were passed away; and there was no more SEA (whores, peoples, multitudes, nations, and tongues)
Then you continue on and state that
All men DIED (were destroyed) on the cross with Christ, the Old Law of sin and death was crucified on the cross and the New Law of the Spirit of Life in Christ Jesus was RESURRECTED. END QUOTE.
Are you supporting this doctrine where all men from Adam on throughout history is saved and there is no Hell?
And by the way, I believe the seas in scripture is often used as the Gentile nations.
Thanks.
Pt. 2.
Jesus obeyed the will of the Father always willingly and lovingly. He never erred in thought, speech, or actions. In all that Jesus did, it was for our sake. He lived the perfect human life for us so that when He took our place on the cross He exchanged His perfect life to us for our sins. We have been given the righteousness of His perfect life and He took the judgment for our sins, taking them completely away and vanquished them.
This is such wonderful news to all of us who believe! And it is the Good News we can bring to those who do not yet believe.
I speak these things because I think it is very important that we believe about Jesus what Scripture actually says of Him. Hope this is helpful to you or to others who read.
You have made many interesting points in your post. I just wish to speak to one that you mentioned. That is that the Lord was not God before He was man, rather man, then God.
I would like to direct you to John chapter 1 where He states that:
"In the beginning was the Word, and the Word was with God, and the Word was God. The same was in the beginning with God. All things were made by Him; and without Him was not anything made that was made. In Him was Life.....vs. 1-4
" And the Word became flesh, and dwelt among us (and we beheld His glory..... vs. 14
This opening chapter of the Apostle John clearly says that Jesus (the Word) preexisted as God with the Father. And at the fulness of time, He (Jesus, the Word) became flesh (took upon Himself a full human nature like every other human but without a sinful nature). Jesus remained God while living on earth. God is eternal and can never cease to be. But when He became man, He added humanity to His Person to be both God and man in one Person. He was not two persons in one body. Rather He was One Person with two natures-deity and humanity. This is classic Christian doctrine goin back to the apostles.
God, in His infinite wisdom deemed that the only way the debt of the sins of all mankind could be satisfactorily paid for to bring forgiveness and redemption was through One who was both God and man. As God, Jesus was able to bear the extreme wrath of God for the sin of all mankind. As God, Jesus was the most precious sacrifice God could provide, therefore the infinite, inexhaustive worth of His life was the highest cost possible to propitiate our sins. As man, Jesus, having lived a perfect human life, was the only human in all history who could be a perfect substitute for all other humans to take our place before God and have our sin be judged in Jesus. In His humanity, Jesus obeyed each and every aspect of the Law of God to the very jot and tittle. He never sinned in any way. continued in part 2
Revelation 21:1 And I saw a new heaven, and a new earth: for the first heaven and the first earth (old covenant) were passed away; and there was no more SEA (whores, peoples, multitudes, nations, and tongues)
All men DIED (were destroyed) on the cross with Christ, the Old Law of sin and death was crucified on the cross and the New Law of the Spirit of Life in Christ Jesus was RESURRECTED.
Revelation is the REVEALING of Jesus Christ.
Only one BODY arose at the RESURRECTION, you are joint heirs of Christ resurrection. Christ ONLY hath immortality.
1 Timothy 6:19 Christ ONLY hath IMMORTALITY dwelling in the LIGHT (presence of God) ...
1 Corinthians 15:54 .... this mortal shall put on IMMORTALITY ......
Romans 8:29 Whom he did foreknow (he foreknew ALL creation) he did also PREDESTINATE (by his resurrection) to be conformed to the image of Christ (being raised together as ONE) ...
God bless you
Please pray for our great nation. The sacrifices of the men and women who served should not be forgotten.
May God bless America.
Do you believe what THE WORD says.
1 Corinthians 15:22 For as in Adam all die, even so in Christ shall all shall be made alive.
Has this not already happen, at the cross and resurrection?
Galatians 2:20 I am Crucified with Christ ...
Are not these words for ALL men, do you believe you were crucified with Christ 2000 years ago, not yet born, but reaping the gift of God.
Ephesians 2:8 For BY GRACE are you SAVED (given immortal LIFE) ......
This happened 2000 years ago, do you believe you were given this gift of God before you ever knew to do right or wrong?
Romans 9:11 For the children (the new creation, Christ in you) being not yet born, neither having done any good or evil, that the purpose of God according to the election (of Grace) might stand not of works, but of him (the Holy Ghost) that CALLETH.
Is it not God that is doing ALL THINGS according to his good pleasure.
Are not ALL men a POT and God the POTTER?
Is not God going to DESTROY ALL marred POTS and remake them into vessels of HONOUR.
All this was done at the cross and RESURRECTION.
God will CAUSE his creation to come to TRUTH at his good pleasure.
It's all THE WORKS of God, man has no say in what God see fit to do, we just know what the END will be.
1 Corinthians 15:28 ..... GOD will be ALL in ALL.
God bless you.
What is a mutured faith looks like?
As it written in the scriptures that those of him like resemble him and be called Christ like, but little do we know what is Christ like especially if Christ is drawn only from the works and the miracles he had done, indeed I would argue that that is not maturity neither circumcision of faith through faith.
Before he was God he was man, as it written in the scriptures that he took the form of man and chose to suffer as human not God, because of the sins we carry are not of our spirit but of the flesh, the pain we suffer are not of our spirit but of our flesh, The spirit cannot be seen so it can't be it fighting for fame, fighting for glory, fighting for money, fighting for power and control, for the spirit carries it all by the Will of it's maker, The spirit is willing but the flesh is weak, he cried to God. Because sometimes it is our flesh that is weak for success, that is weak to carry God, weak to praise him, weak to worship him. The day the flesh can carry the spirit that's the day we all muture in the faith, the day the Unity of flesh and spirit takes place that's the day circumcision through faith takes place, for a man Cannot return to her mother's womb, but through the spirit the flesh can be born again. For the spirit is given an identity, the spirit is given a name, the spirit is given life and purpose. Go make disciples of your own bless them in your name for your name's are names of the spirit not of flesh, they are names are of God not man who gave birth to them, they didn't return to their mother's womb to earn those names, but had to circumcise the flesh to endure the spirit through that they earned faith that granted them New life in God.
I am certain that you are on the path to truth regarding God's Judgment.
The Bible is very clear that the wages of sin is death. And that death is eternal death, eternal destruction. Also, in passages that talk about punishment continuing "FOR ever and ever", the word FOR can also be translated "TO". This fits with the understanding of destruction as God destroys this sin cursed earth and creates the New Heaven and New Earth that will exist eternally.
Additionally the word "Hell" is also translated "Grave".
So when we look at the nature of God's Judgment program very carefully, we find that the Final Punishment is annihilation, that is destruction.
There is also the element of shaming where those that have died will be resurrected, not to life, but to shame and contempt, as their bodies or what is left are strewn on the ground.
I know this is anathema to the churches that have always taught eternal punishment. But we know from the book of Daniel that there will be certain truths that are unsealed as we near the end, which is where we are, I believe. And this understanding of God's judgment is one of those truths.
This is just one example of the Incomprehensible Mercy of God.
This Psalm begins in verse 1 with a "new song". The "right arm" which gets the victory along with openly showing His righteousness (verse 2) shows His return after Armageddon to begin ruling with a rod of iron but with justice ( Rev. 2:27; Psalm 9:8).
There is a new song earlier sung by the 144,000 in heaven at an earlier date ( Rev. 14:3). There is one earlier on though; in Revelation 5:9 which appears to be those raptured and singing to the One worthy to open the seals who has overcome.
Verses 3 through 6 remind us of His presence being known throughout the earth and celebration to be given with instruments. His mercy and truth to the House of Israel mentioned in verse 3 makes it clear that God has once again salvaged Israel and restored it's covenant promises.
God judging the world with "equity" is true balanced judgment; not perverted sorts of methodologies which we see so often today. No doubt the prophecy in Isaiah 2:4 will be appropriate as swords are beaten into plowshares. That verse mentions settling "many disputes" as well; and no doubt we will rule and reign with Him in a supporting role over "many cities" for those faithfully following Him now ( Luke 19:17).
The mention of the sea roaring in verse 7 once again shows this as a Millennial event; as no more sea exists at the end of that time period.
There seems to be a different fate; for instance for the wicked servant in Luke 19:22 as compared with Matthew 18:32. The allegory in Matthew in particular seems to indicate someone who is lost; the parable in Luke separates the fate of losing the talent buried in the ground from the fate of those who would not have Him "rule over them." in verse 27. That would seem to indicate someone perhaps a Jew who physically makes it into the Millennium as a sheep and those destroyed the goats at the judgment immediately after the Tribulation.
To differentiate parables into one category or situation is tempting to due to fit a particular doctrinal viewpoint; but clearly there are applications for all wicked and righteous; as well as various rewards or lack thereof for His saints. There are applications for Israel as a nation; as well as the church. The focus certainly is on Israel as to where the events of the end times will occur; and the affects of what goes on in the end times will be felt throughout the earth.
The original question brought up the idea of how God would judge eternally with stripes as it were which could be metaphorical for punishments in hell; but again chastisement as a concept is opposed to wrath. Since He only chastises His own others are left to reap the reward of their doings. There will be varying degrees of punishment in hell; and no doubt those who are reprobate knowing something about God will have harsher sentences.
In summary; it is better to be disciplined now than suffer in hell; but it for His people there can be suffering inflicted by Satan if we persist in rebellion. ( 1 Cor. 5:5). We can be as the person in Proverbs 5:14 almost ruined in the assembly; or approaching death as in Psalm 88. Therefore we should be as David and quickly repent rather than others who stubbornly refuse correction and reap accordingly (such as Solomon). We all should have the mindset of Luke 21:36 but most believers don't.
We see what appears in Luke to be a discussion of those fellowservants who are warning about the coming of the Lord and are "beaten by their fellow servants" ( Luke 12:45). We see that verse 39 and 46 indicate a house being "broken into" and verse 46 talks about being assigned in a place with the hypocrites and cut into pieces. That would be metaphorical language fitting into missing the Rapture; and going through the fire of the Tribulation from the way I see it.
Isaiah 10:5-6 discusses the "Assyrian" God's method of chastisement (one code word for Antichrist) who is used to judge a "hypocritical nation." Hence there is ample reason to at least ascribe this message to Israel as a rebellious nation who doesn't recognize their King until they realize that the one they trusted in turns against them.
There are ignorant people in churches today who God may still save or make their garments white in the Tribulation. Whether these are left behind believers or new believers as part of the witnessing campaign of the 144,000 it is martyrdom that is the test of all who truly believe in Christ. Those who know better and yet are truly His own of course (as with teachers) have a greater responsibility; hence the Lord will have to deal with them more harshly. I look at the Tribulation as being a massive campaign by God for fruit production; which He will get one way or another to His satisfaction. The word Tribulation apparently is related to "Tribulum" or the wheat being ripened and harvested rapidly in the blistering sun. It is good to look at such events in relation to the big picture; the worst persecution brings the greatest glory; and will be used to turn Israel back to the true Savior ( Zech 12:12; Rev. 1:7).
Luke 12:47,48
And that servant, which knew his lord's will, and prepared not himself, neither did according to his will, shall be beaten with many stripes. But he that knew not, and did commit things worthy of stripes, shall be beaten with few stripes. For unto whomsoever much is given, of him shall be much required: and to whom men have committed much, of him they will ask the more.
Deuteronomy 25:1-3
If there be a controversy between men, and they come unto judgment, that the judges may judge them; then they shall justify the righteous, and condemn the wicked. And it shall be, if the wicked man be worthy to be beaten, that the judge shall cause him to lie down, and to be beaten before his face, according to his fault, by a certain number. Forty stripes he may give him, and not exceed: lest, if he should exceed, and beat him above these with many stripes, then thy brother should seem vile unto thee.
How do these passages fit with the conventional understanding that God's Judgment for the wicked is conscious existence and eternal suffering that never ends in a place called Hell?
Would we not expect God's punishment for the wicked to be consistent with His Law and have a limit?